| Revision as of 23:21, 26 November 2005 editPeruvianllama (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users13,515 editsm Reverted edits by 221.114.194.14 to last version by Peruvianllama← Previous edit | Revision as of 23:57, 26 November 2005 edit undoFormer user 20 (talk | contribs)2,136 edits SocksNext edit → | ||
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| ==To my critics== | ==To my critics== | ||
| This will not become a soap box for my critics. If you want to say negative things about me, you can do it on your own web site or somewhere else. Hateful things are subject to speedy deletion. Furthermore, continued vandalism will be reported and stopped. |
This will not become a soap box for my critics. If you want to say negative things about me, you can do it on your own web site or somewhere else. Hateful things are subject to speedy deletion. Furthermore, continued vandalism will be reported and stopped. | ||
| == Anonymous, unsigned comments == | |||
| Anonymous, unsigned comments from IP addresses will be subject to speedy deletion. When you try and contribute to a discussion page, look at the very bottom and you'll see the proper Wikiquette. --] 04:46, 25 November 2005 (UTC) | Anonymous, unsigned comments from IP addresses will be subject to speedy deletion. When you try and contribute to a discussion page, look at the very bottom and you'll see the proper Wikiquette. --] 04:46, 25 November 2005 (UTC) | ||
| == |
== Socks == | ||
| Hello, I noticed , and it seems like ] is correct in assuming you are creating extra accounts to give the appearance of consensus on an issue where there may be none. Please stop using them. ] 21:51, 22 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| * Karmafist, thanks for your input. However, if you look closer, I'm certain you'll see exactly what Kelly . I never used (and never will use) a sockpuppet to give the appearance of consensus on an issue. If you think I have, then please elaborate and I'll correct your error. I've taken active steps to avoid this because it would be against the rules and wouldn't be fair. | |||
| * My reasons for using sockpuppets are valid. Several people hate me and they will continually delete any entries I make because I stand up for Protestant Christianity and its proponents. I've already seen censorship and such, so I'm not convinced that the opponents of Christianity on Misplaced Pages have the maturity to behave correctly. Recently, this has been illustrated by their vandalism on my user page. It has also been illustrated on other entries and other contributions of mine.--] 01:35, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| *I also recommend using a single account. All you'll accomplish is making yourself look stupid, discredit yourself as an editor, and annoy people. Also, it is questionable to use your userpage as an advertisement for your business, I would recommend you reduce it to a simple link to your own or your business's homepage. ] <small>]</small> 22:17, 22 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| * Thanks for your input, but I have valid reasons. Read above and see Wiki's rules on sock puppets.--] 01:35, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ===Saving On Asterisks=== | |||
| Jason, even if you never use them or claim never to use them, the fact that they are there is reason enough for others to look upon you with suspicion, and I don't think that's what you want from the sound of things. If feel as though people are stalking you, please let me know, but I'd like to ask you again to make it official that those accounts are off limits. I see you used the ] account since last we talked, so please let others know if that's your primary account, or they all have to be blocked. Perhaps a small statement from you on the accounts you won't use from now on saying "I won't use this account, and I did not understand that this was inappropriate since I was a ]." or something like that.Please respond on my talk page. If you continue using multiple accounts, I'll have to block them all. ] 18:38, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| * You haven't been able to do anything about the constant vandalism on my user page. What should make me believe that you will or can do anything about those that are out to revert and remove every Christian-oriented contribution of mine?--] 20:12, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| * Here is a quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Sock_puppet : | |||
| Multiple accounts have legitimate uses. For example, prominent users may wish to experience Misplaced Pages to understand how the community functions for those new to the community. In particular, some have suggested that Jimbo should get, and edit from, a sock puppet account. Perhaps he does. | |||
| Other users employ multiple accounts to segregate their contributions for various reasons. A user making substantial contributions to an area of interest in Misplaced Pages might register another account to be used solely in connection with developing that area. | |||
| Some users use alternate accounts for security reasons. Because public computers often have password-stealing trojans installed, users put themselves at risk if they log in on public computers using their main accounts. | |||
| Others might use different accounts in talk pages to avoid extending conflicts about a particular area of interest into conflicts based upon user identity. A person participating in a discussion of an article about abortion, for example, might not want to allow other participants an opportunity to extend that discussion or engage them in unrelated or philosophically motivated debate outside the context of that article. | |||
| Multiple accounts also serve to protect identity. Someone who is known to the public or within a particular circle may be identifiable based on their interests and contributions; dividing these up between different accounts might help preserve the person's anonymity. Users with a recognized expertise in one field, for example, might not wish to associate their contributions to that field with contributions to articles about less weighty subjects. A person editing an article which is highly controversial within their social circle may wish to use a sock puppet so that readers unfamiliar with WP:NPOV policy will not assume their information edits are statements of personal belief. | |||
| END QUOTE | |||
| *Now, you have yet to explain or prove that I have used multiple accounts in bad faith. Your pressure for me to quit is unwarranted and frankly, against the Misplaced Pages rules.--] 20:16, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :Bad faith or not Jason, Socks are against policy on Misplaced Pages, and since you don't want to remove them, i'm blocking them indefinately for you, and if you make another one, i'll block any account you make in the future. ] 04:27, 24 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ::Having never been involved in this article, and never having heard of either of you before, I came across this via a link. My response is simple and to the point: | |||
| ::I do not know if Jason Gastrich is indeed being vandalised and stalked on wikipedia or not, nor do I care much. Dispute resolution takes care of that. However, what is clear and not in doubt to me is that Karmafist could be more civil. Even if sock-puppets are discouraged, they are not in fact against policy so much as strongly discouraged. The current wording of ] at least ''prima facie'' does not presently prohibit sock puppet use to avoid harrassment, so perhaps JG has had a reasonable and good-faith basis to believe that this use was permitted. Good faith should be assumed where possible, and a civil sympathetic tone adopted, even if a user is in fact in error, until bad faith is demonstrated. It seems that part of the problem was that ] did not actually state what kelly Martin states, and as an official policy it is of course, what users will believe should be followed. With her input, perhaps the situation will now be resolved more amicably. (And for the record, I take back a previous comment regarding Karmafist's edit, having not read Kelly Martins reply beforehand. Apologies in retrospect for butting in, if they are needed, and see you round editing maybe) ] 17:42, 24 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :::It's ok FT2, It's my opinion that the dispute resolution system on Misplaced Pages is fairly ineffective, so i'm trying to be a bit more proactive here. It doesn't seem like Jason has malicious intent with the socks, but regardless, socks are socks. ] 20:36, 24 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| == Sockery == | |||
| Jason, | |||
| In response to your request on my user talk page, I am afraid you misinterpreted my comments on the administrator noticeboard. Your use of sockpuppets is not "correct and proper". Misplaced Pages, by policy, discourages the use of sockpuppets. However, we tolerate the use of sockpuppets in limited situations where an appropriate purpose exists for their use. I am afraid that I do not believe that your intended purpose is an appropriate use of sockpuppets, and I further believe that your use of sockpuppets is beginning to become disruptive to Misplaced Pages. | |||
| The reason I made the statement that I did is that I am specially empowered with the ability to investigate from what IP address(es) a particular editor has been using to edit Misplaced Pages. (I am only of only six editors on the English Misplaced Pages with this level of access to the system.) I did such an investigation in your case based on the request made on the administrator noticeboard. I have, in fact, documented that you are using a significant number of sockpuppets to edit Misplaced Pages. However, my ability to take action on that information is restricted; the situations in which I can act on this information are limited and your conduct has not yet, in my opinion, reached the level where administrative action on my part is required. While it is my opinion that your conduct is not becoming of a Wikipedian, and I would prefer that you desist in your use of multiple sockpuppets, your conduct has also not yet reached the level where I am willing to breach your privacy by publicly revealing the names of all of your sockpuppets, take any formal administrative action to terminate your use of sockpuppets (or your access to Misplaced Pages), or recommend to anyone else that they do so. It is, however, getting very close to that level. | |||
| I am aware that my word carries a great deal of weight on Misplaced Pages, and I do not want my words to be misinterpreted. While the use of sockpuppets is occasionally tolerated by policy, your conduct is beginning to become offensive and disruptive. You are strongly advised to consider whether your current course of conduct is in harmony with your long-term interests at Misplaced Pages and with Misplaced Pages's mission. | |||
| Sincerely, | |||
| ] (]) 22:10, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| *This makes it much more clear. Thank you. | |||
| :Unfortunately, this will all but drive me from Misplaced Pages (just as my critics and opponents want). I can't spend a lot of time in revert wars and such and that is exactly what will happen when I do all contribs through one user name. This can already be seen today in the ] entry. Duncharris went there via the Jason Gastrich user account and edited a perfectly reasonable contribution for no reason at all (except for his known and documented bias against me, Christianity, young earth creation, etc.). So, if I stay on Wiki and obey your rules, how can things like this be avoided? Or should I just conclude that it will be a constant, lifetime battle to get reasonable contributions to stay online?--] 22:18, 23 November 2005 | |||
| :*Jason, | |||
| ::Revert warring is not the solution to any problem on Misplaced Pages. Please follow our ] to resolve your dispute. If you are being unreasonably hounded by other editors, those editors are violating Misplaced Pages's policy, and will be made to stop. ] (]) 22:36, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :*Jason, If you add reasonable information then no one will revert your edits. In the case you mention above (your primrose edit to the microevolution page) there is good reason to question if polyploidy is a good example of microevolution. Many would argue it is an example of macroevolution. It would be better to stick to less controversial examples. Another point, since duncharris has edited the microevolution page before there is a very good chance he has it on his watchlist. I don't think you have reason to believe he stalked you to that page. I suspect if he had not reverted your edit another editor would have questioned it too. ] ] 23:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ::* About half of angiosperm (flowering plant) species seem to have originated this way. Brine shrimp, weevils, bagworm moths, and flies may have arisen this way. It's only his opinion that the primrose plant is a bad example. Doesn't it take more than one's opinion to maintain an edit?--] 23:36, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ::* By definition, it's microevolution. It is happening at and below the species level. --] 23:36, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :::*Look at the ], I think we are talking at cross purposes. I thought you were talking about the allotetraploid example in ], that IS a new species. But I now realise you are talking about the genetic variation seen in ] (not a primrose, by the way, despite its common name Evening Primrose) and that is a valid example of microevolution. By the way, I think it is redundant to write that people who are pro-evolution accept microevolution, which was another aspect of that edit that was changed. ] ] 23:51, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| ::::*Ok, David. At least we're closer to being on the same page now. Pun intended.--] 23:54, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| Jason, please respond on my talk page if you need assistance in fear threats from critics or as a third opinion in looking at any potential disputes, sockpuppetry and revert warring is not the way. (UTC)] 17:01, 24 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| == Page protection == | |||
| Would you like your userpage temp vprotected? <font color="#9999ff">]</font>]]<sup><font color="#cc6600">]</font></sup> 22:38, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| * Yes, please. It might as well be protected for as long as possible. Thanks for offering. | |||
| --] 22:41, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| :No prob, just ask me or another admin to unprotect it when you are ready. Cheers. <font color="#9999ff">]</font>]]<sup><font color="#cc6600">]</font></sup> 22:52, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| : Thanks! --] 23:19, 23 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| == A hopefully helpful note == | |||
| Hi Jason. I happened to notice your request for mediation. I should point out that I'm not a mediator, but I thought I'd save you a few headaches. | |||
| Mediators are not there to arbitrate, and I think you will not get a satisfactory result. Misplaced Pages generally works by discussion and consensus, and I'd suggest filing a ] (I think that link should work) instead. The arbitration committee do arbitrate, as one would expect from the name, but they're a last resort when things go sour. | |||
| Lately, more and more, I've seen the value of using a single user account. Even though I had been seeking (and waiting for) a 3rd party admin to exhort me on my use of socks, I've deleted the conversation. I'll be using my main user account for the vast majority of my posts. If I ever do decide to use a sock, some time down the road, I'll make sure to use them very sparingly and within the Wiki rules.--] 23:57, 26 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
| Best of luck. ] 13:29, 25 November 2005 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 23:57, 26 November 2005
To my critics
This will not become a soap box for my critics. If you want to say negative things about me, you can do it on your own web site or somewhere else. Hateful things are subject to speedy deletion. Furthermore, continued vandalism will be reported and stopped.
Anonymous, unsigned comments from IP addresses will be subject to speedy deletion. When you try and contribute to a discussion page, look at the very bottom and you'll see the proper Wikiquette. --Jason Gastrich 04:46, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
Socks
Lately, more and more, I've seen the value of using a single user account. Even though I had been seeking (and waiting for) a 3rd party admin to exhort me on my use of socks, I've deleted the conversation. I'll be using my main user account for the vast majority of my posts. If I ever do decide to use a sock, some time down the road, I'll make sure to use them very sparingly and within the Wiki rules.--Jason Gastrich 23:57, 26 November 2005 (UTC)