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''''']''''' 21:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC) ''''']''''' 21:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)
== Dear Mentor, ==

Thank you for your advice. We're putting it to good use.

I've run into a situation, and need your valuable insight.

One thing I've tried to do with respect to the outlines is place a hatnote on subject articles leading to that subject's corresponding outline.

Two people complained, and form the basis of consensus not to do it.

The main concern was quality: a hatnote shouldn't be placed unless the outline is of at least the same or higher quality than the article the hatnote is being placed on. That sets up a catch-22, since we need the best linking we can to attract readers and editors in the first place. The more traffic, the more feedback and changes.

So quality is the focus.

Please have a look at the outlines.

What are the biggest quality issues? What do the outlines need done to them in order to improve their quality?

I look forward to your reply on my talk page.

''''']''''' 22:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 08:43, 13 June 2009

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Astatine-210. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.


Dear Mentor,

First, thank you for taking me on as your adoptee. Nice to meet you.

I need your advice concerning WP:WPOOK, which I've been coordinating. The set of pages the project concerns is listed at Portal:Contents/Outline of knowledge and Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge#Projected outline, and has grown to about 500 articles in the encyclopedia.

The goals of the WikiProject are:

  1. Increase awareness of readers of the existence of the outlines on Misplaced Pages
  2. Complete the existing outlines
  3. Create an outline for every subject that is exensive enough to benefit from having an outline (core subjects and major or extensive fields). There are thousands of these.
  4. Recruit as many editors to work on these as possible (we need thousands of editors working on these)
  5. Surpass portals in number by the end of the summer, and leave them in the dust by the end of the year
  6. Get the major outline subject areas displayed on the Main Page (in place of or in addition to the portal links at the top of the page)
  7. Increase the OOK to higher quality than Britannica's Outline of Knowledge (published in its Propaedia volume).

I was hoping you could comment on how to achieve the goals above.

Also I'm interested in every possible way of reaching readers and editors of Misplaced Pages. How can I get the most eyes and typing fingers on Misplaced Pages's outlines? Contacting editors directly without a reason relevant to them is spam, which I'd like to avoid. There are 75,000 regular editors on Misplaced Pages, and I want to contact all of them. So how do I do it? Directly or indirectly, I don't care which, piecemeal or all-at-once, all methods are fine with me. But I've got to find ways. I need your help.

I would also like to know how to find or attract editors to create new outlines. And I need advice on finding editors to help write the new outline article mentioned above (it needs to be fleshed out, completely referenced, and brought to featured article status).

Please recommend anyone you know who might be interested in sinking their teeth into a project like this. Or ways to reach groups of editors. Or ways to reach all editors. I welcome any and all recommendations and advice you might have.

I look forward to your reply on my talk page.

The Transhumanist    03:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

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Delivered by SoxBot (talk) at 22:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Mentor

Here's what's been happening. I look forward to your thoughts...

Outline update - Good news and bad news - 06/08/2009

The big push continues.

And it seems to be working!

The good news is that there's growing support for outlines, and there are more editors than ever editing them!

The bad news is that the complainers are disproportionately represented on the project's various talk pages. While many editors work diligently on the front end, a handful of complainers are trying to tear down the project behind the scenes. Fortunately, barely enough supporters have been watching those pages that no consensus for moving or merging the outlines has succeeded. So far...

Big problem: ignorance of what outlines are for and their benefits

Most of the opposition seems to be unaware of the complete range of what outlines are used for. They just don't get it.

This is why it is important to complete the outline article draft. An article with a comprehensive treatment of outlines would be the perfect place to refer anybody unfamiliar with outlines to.

Opposers also don't seem to understand how outlines differ from some other page type that they prefer. Some think articles are good enough as an overview, others think portals are more in-depth, still others think categories or navigation boxes are the most efficient and useful way to organize and present topical information. Some have simply never seen an "Outline of" page before and think they are a new type of page (they've been around under other names since 2001).

If you run across anyone who doesn't understand the role of outlines on Misplaced Pages, Misplaced Pages:Why do we have outlines in addition to...? might help reduce their misconceptions or uncertainties about outlines.

On the bright side, you've got to see this...

To add the outlines and related support pages to your watchlist (takes less than 30 seconds), cut and paste them from Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist into your raw watchlist. For a way to improve the display of your watchlist - by namespace (very useful) - see Watchlist sorter, or use the "super fast upgrade" at WP:OTS.

Or go to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist using Related changes (currently without the talk pages) and click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu on the sidebar on the left side of your screen.

The big push

The big push started with about a thousand banners and notices being placed on article talk pages all over Misplaced Pages.

But it didn't stop there...

Welcome our new members...

The following Wikipedians have joined the OOK team.

Be sure to stop by their talk pages and introduce yourselves.

Enter the mentors!

I asked a bunch of mentors at WP:ADOPT for advice. Several of them answered on my talk page. Most of those who replied were happy to help, and posted some very good ideas. A couple even joined the project.

Here are their ideas, and what is being done about them. A few of the tasks still need volunteers:

Linking to outlines has begun

To the tops of about 30 subject articles, I placed a test batch of hatnotes leading to the corresponding outlines. The hatnotes look like this:

For a topical guide to this subject, see Outline of X.(Hidden: <!- PLEASE LEAVE THIS LINE IN PLACE because it leads to the page that serves as the table of contents for Misplaced Pages's overall coverage of this subject. Thank you.-->

The rationale for the hatnotes is that each outline is a topical guide for its subject, and since tables of contents go at the front of a book, a link to each outline should be placed at the front of its subject.

Unfortunately, not all editors agree. Some of the hatnotes have already disappeared.  :(

Some past discussions pertaining to the existence or location of outlines

Note that the "Lists of topics" are of two types, including outlines and indexes, so discussions to remove, move, or merge those are usually relevant to the OOK. Also, outlines are a type of list, so discussions that affect lists in general also pertain to outlines. We've got to be on our toes!

I've excluded links to live discussions, out of respect for WP:CANVASS.

Table of contents to OOK-related stuff

Here's a directory of outline support pages:

Keep up the great work!

The Transhumanist    04:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

WPOOK advert banner under development, here's the beta...

Thank you to those who suggested WPOOK have an animated advert banner. Penubag got working on it right away. Here's what he's come up with so far:

Penubag needs feedback.

I've posted a few changes for him to make to it.

Please post additional comments and suggestions for him at User talk:Penubag#Chocolate banner.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist    02:35, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline collaboration!

As you know, Penubag is working on a banner to advertise the Outline WikiProject. And he's almost done.

The banner prominently presents the "Outline of chocolate", which of course will become the most widely advertised outline as soon as the banner goes live. The first thing many editors will do after seeing the banner is look for that outline.

The problem is, we don't have one.

So that's our first outline collaboration!

I started a draft this morning.

It needs to be finished and moved to the article namespace before we can start using Penubag's banner ad!

Come join in on the fun. It's chocolate!

The Transhumanist    21:57, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Mentor,

Thank you for your advice. We're putting it to good use.

I've run into a situation, and need your valuable insight.

One thing I've tried to do with respect to the outlines is place a hatnote on subject articles leading to that subject's corresponding outline.

Two people complained, and form the basis of consensus not to do it.

The main concern was quality: a hatnote shouldn't be placed unless the outline is of at least the same or higher quality than the article the hatnote is being placed on. That sets up a catch-22, since we need the best linking we can to attract readers and editors in the first place. The more traffic, the more feedback and changes.

So quality is the focus.

Please have a look at the outlines.

What are the biggest quality issues? What do the outlines need done to them in order to improve their quality?

I look forward to your reply on my talk page.

The Transhumanist    22:41, 12 June 2009 (UTC)