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Thank you for the time you invested in reading this. --] (]) 23:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC) Thank you for the time you invested in reading this. --] (]) 23:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
== Outline update - ''Good news and bad news'' - 06/08/2009 ==

The big push continues.

And it seems to be working!

'''''The good news is''''' that there's growing support for outlines, and there are more editors than ever editing them!

'''''The bad news is''''' that the complainers are disproportionately represented on the project's various talk pages. While many editors work diligently on the front end, a handful of complainers are trying to tear down the project behind the scenes. Fortunately, barely enough supporters have been watching those pages that no consensus for moving or merging the outlines has succeeded. So far...

=== Big problem: ignorance of what outlines are for and their benefits ===

Most of the opposition seems to be unaware of the complete range of what outlines are used for. They just don't ''get it''.

This is why it is important to complete ]. An article with a comprehensive treatment of outlines would be the perfect place to refer anybody unfamiliar with outlines to.

Opposers also don't seem to understand how outlines differ from some other page type that they prefer. Some think articles are good enough as an overview, others think portals are more in-depth, still others think categories or navigation boxes are the most efficient and useful way to organize and present topical information. Some have simply never seen an "Outline of" page before and think they are a new type of page (they've been around under other names since 2001).

If you run across anyone who doesn't understand the role of outlines on Misplaced Pages, ] might help reduce their misconceptions or uncertainties about outlines.

=== On the bright side, ''you've got to see this...'' ===

To add the outlines and related support pages to your watchlist (takes less than 30 seconds), cut and paste them from ] into your raw watchlist. For a way to improve the display of your watchlist - by namespace (very useful) - see ], or use the "super fast upgrade" at ].

Or go to ] (currently without the talk pages) and click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu on the sidebar on the left side of your screen.

=== The big push ===

The big push started with about a thousand banners and notices being placed on article talk pages all over Misplaced Pages.

But it didn't stop there...

=== Welcome our new members... ===

The following Wikipedians have joined the OOK team.

Be sure to stop by their talk pages and introduce yourselves.

* ] - going after the Main Page.
* ] / ] - here to help.
* ] - made a splash at MfD with ] (see the talk page for the MfD link - lots of support there).

=== Enter the mentors! ===

I asked a bunch of mentors at ] for advice. Several of them answered on my talk page. Most of those who replied were happy to help, and posted some very good ideas. A couple even joined the project.

Here are their ideas, and what is being done about them. A few of the tasks still need volunteers:

* ]: Create and place project banners - already {{done}}
* ] & ]: put an animated ad for the project in ] - Our graphics specialist ] is looking into it.
* ]: Create a userbox for the project - assigned to ].
* ]: Ask to have outlines added to next year's ] competition - {{done}} (proposal posted)
* ]: Add a link to ] to the ] - ] is taking on the creation of the proposal
* ]: Create an ] to WPOOK - {{done}} (invitation coming soon, see below)
* ]: (Create a ]) - {{done}}
* ]: Add a feed to ] to gather links to new outlines and post them on a page. Then personally invite new creators to the project. - '''''who wants to tackle the feed?'''''
* ]: Assign someone to monitor the outlines via watchlist, and invite new outline editors to the project - '''''any volunteers?'''''
* Related: Create an invitation - ] is working on it.
* ]: Create ] similar to ], which adds each outline it is posted on to ], where editors (who are browsing the categories) can find them and work on them - '''''to be assigned'''''
* ]: Add the above template to incomplete outlines - upcoming AWB task
* ]: "Tell your wikifriends about it" - I've told mine, have ''you'' told ''yours''?
* ]: "Collaborate with other WikiProjects" - we've been doing this from the start (each outline is associated with at least one other WikiProject).
* : move the projected outline to a subpage of ] - {{done}}

=== Linking to outlines has begun ===

To the tops of about 30 subject articles, I placed a test batch of hatnotes leading to the corresponding outlines. The hatnotes look like this:

: ''For a topical guide to this subject, see ].''(Hidden: <!- PLEASE LEAVE THIS LINE IN PLACE because it leads to the page that serves as the table of contents for Misplaced Pages's overall coverage of this subject. Thank you.-->

The rationale for the hatnotes is that each outline is a topical guide for its subject, and since tables of contents go at the front of a book, a link to each outline should be placed at the front of its subject.

Unfortunately, not all editors agree. Some of the hatnotes have already disappeared. :(

=== Some past discussions pertaining to the existence or location of outlines ===
Note that the "Lists of topics" are of two types, including outlines and indexes, so discussions to remove, move, or merge those are usually relevant to the OOK. Also, outlines are a type of list, so discussions that affect lists in general also pertain to outlines. We've got to be on our toes!

* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
* ]
*
* ]
* ]
* ]

I've excluded links to live discussions, out of respect for ].

=== Table of contents to OOK-related stuff ===
Here's a directory of outline support pages:

* ]
* ]
** ]
** ]
*** ]
**** ]
**** ]
* ]
** ]

=== Keep up the great work! ===

''''']''''' 04:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

== WPOOK advert banner under development, here's the beta... ==

Thank you to those who suggested ] have an animated advert banner. Penubag got working on it right away. Here's what he's come up with so far:

Penubag needs feedback.

I've posted a few changes for him to make to it.

Please post additional comments and suggestions for him at ].

Thank you.

''''']''''' 02:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

== Outline collaboration! ==

As you know, Penubag is working on a banner to advertise the Outline WikiProject. And he's almost done.

The banner prominently presents the "Outline of chocolate", which of course will become ''the most widely advertised outline'' as soon as the banner goes live. The first thing many editors will do after seeing the banner is look for that outline.

The problem is, we don't have one.

So that's our first outline collaboration!

I started a ''']''' this morning.

It needs to be finished and moved to the article namespace before we can start using Penubag's banner ad!

Come join in on the fun. It's chocolate!

''''']''''' 22:00, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:55, 16 June 2009

Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Images

Following on from this, just in case you were interested I finished off the image review for List of birds of Maryland. I'm a bit burnt out with images so I'm not sure I'll get round to doing papal tombs one, however I'll try and keep up with the current candidates. Best, Rambo's Revenge (talk) 10:01, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Seeking help in writing more effectively

I write to you because of your recent edit to WP:Too long; didn't read-- here.

I'm told that I need help in improving my writing. Articles present no problem, but I don't do well enough in talk page venues. I know that this is a non-standard request. I urge you to construe it as just one step in a process of mitigating fundamental flaws in in the way I address issues like logical fallacies or unfounded complaints. Until this week, I theorized that my problems arose when I attempted persuasive writing rather than expository prose, but it's not that simple. An illustrative example of my writing is to be found at Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for arbitration/Tang Dynasty/Proposed decision.

ArbCom remedy

Voting is underway at WP:RfA/Tang Dynasty/Proposed decision.

Proposed ArbCom findings of fact included:

  • 3.2.2 Tenmei and dispute resolution. "... many of Tenmei's talkpage posts and submissions during this arbitration case have been very difficult for other editors to understand, to the point that experienced participants in dispute resolution have had difficulty in following them, despite what we accept as Tenmei's good-faith best efforts to assist us in resolving the case."

ArbCom remedies included:

  • 3.3.2 Tenmei and dispute resolution: "Should Tenmei become involved in any further disputes with other editors, whether concerning the content of articles (beyond ordinary day-to-day editing issues) or more formal dispute resolution procedures, he shall seek the assistance of a volunteer mentor or adviser to work with him in maximizing the value of his presentation by assisting him with formulating it in a clear and civil fashion."
  • 3.3.3 Editors advised: "Editors who encounter difficulties in communicating with others on-wiki are advised to seek help from others in presenting their thoughts clearly, particularly when disputes arise or when dispute resolution is sought."

When I initiated this ArbCom case, my intentions were quite limited, as explained best in my response to John Vandenberg here and as presented initially at WP:RfA/Tang Dynasty#Statement by Tenmei. However, the proposed decision's locus of dispute explains that "evidence in the case has expanded to include other disputes in which Tenmei has been involved."

Backstory

Caspian blue and others have determined that I am Japanese, despite the fact that I have avoided self-labeling in terms of nationality, gender, marital status, etc. I gather that Caspian blue has endured a number of caustic disputes with anonymous contributors and sockpuppets; and many of these were seen to have originated in Japan. Caspian blue is Korean; and aggrieved complaints about perceived anti-Korean bias are commonplace, not only involving those like me with perceived or actual Japanese backgrounds.

As ipso facto "evidence" of my "long-term harassment", Caspian blue alleges here that in 2008 "Tenmei ... attacked my ethnicity and taunted my ancestors ...." Inexplicably, Caspian blue's 2008 complaint at WP:AN/IncidentArchive471#User:Tenmei's abusing AfD and personal attacks did not encompass this specific claim ... which I would have thought implies that it simply didn't happen.

This one example suggests complicated subtexts affecting a broad tranche of wiki-edits. A risk aversion strategy has thus far proven inadequate; and ArbCom is correct in anticipating future difficulties.

I'm guessing that this message to you is arguably the sort of gesture ArbCom wants from me. Perhaps you will construe it as an illustrative example of WP:TLDR.

If you are willing to discuss this off-wiki, I've activated the e-mail send/receive option in my user preferences. If you can think of some other editor I might contact, I'd appreciate it.

Thank you for the time you invested in reading this. --Tenmei (talk) 23:19, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline update - Good news and bad news - 06/08/2009

The big push continues.

And it seems to be working!

The good news is that there's growing support for outlines, and there are more editors than ever editing them!

The bad news is that the complainers are disproportionately represented on the project's various talk pages. While many editors work diligently on the front end, a handful of complainers are trying to tear down the project behind the scenes. Fortunately, barely enough supporters have been watching those pages that no consensus for moving or merging the outlines has succeeded. So far...

Big problem: ignorance of what outlines are for and their benefits

Most of the opposition seems to be unaware of the complete range of what outlines are used for. They just don't get it.

This is why it is important to complete the outline article draft. An article with a comprehensive treatment of outlines would be the perfect place to refer anybody unfamiliar with outlines to.

Opposers also don't seem to understand how outlines differ from some other page type that they prefer. Some think articles are good enough as an overview, others think portals are more in-depth, still others think categories or navigation boxes are the most efficient and useful way to organize and present topical information. Some have simply never seen an "Outline of" page before and think they are a new type of page (they've been around under other names since 2001).

If you run across anyone who doesn't understand the role of outlines on Misplaced Pages, Misplaced Pages:Why do we have outlines in addition to...? might help reduce their misconceptions or uncertainties about outlines.

On the bright side, you've got to see this...

To add the outlines and related support pages to your watchlist (takes less than 30 seconds), cut and paste them from Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist into your raw watchlist. For a way to improve the display of your watchlist - by namespace (very useful) - see Watchlist sorter, or use the "super fast upgrade" at WP:OTS.

Or go to Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Outline of knowledge/Watchlist using Related changes (currently without the talk pages) and click on "Related changes" in the toolbox menu on the sidebar on the left side of your screen.

The big push

The big push started with about a thousand banners and notices being placed on article talk pages all over Misplaced Pages.

But it didn't stop there...

Welcome our new members...

The following Wikipedians have joined the OOK team.

Be sure to stop by their talk pages and introduce yourselves.

Enter the mentors!

I asked a bunch of mentors at WP:ADOPT for advice. Several of them answered on my talk page. Most of those who replied were happy to help, and posted some very good ideas. A couple even joined the project.

Here are their ideas, and what is being done about them. A few of the tasks still need volunteers:

Linking to outlines has begun

To the tops of about 30 subject articles, I placed a test batch of hatnotes leading to the corresponding outlines. The hatnotes look like this:

For a topical guide to this subject, see Outline of X.(Hidden: <!- PLEASE LEAVE THIS LINE IN PLACE because it leads to the page that serves as the table of contents for Misplaced Pages's overall coverage of this subject. Thank you.-->

The rationale for the hatnotes is that each outline is a topical guide for its subject, and since tables of contents go at the front of a book, a link to each outline should be placed at the front of its subject.

Unfortunately, not all editors agree. Some of the hatnotes have already disappeared.  :(

Some past discussions pertaining to the existence or location of outlines

Note that the "Lists of topics" are of two types, including outlines and indexes, so discussions to remove, move, or merge those are usually relevant to the OOK. Also, outlines are a type of list, so discussions that affect lists in general also pertain to outlines. We've got to be on our toes!

I've excluded links to live discussions, out of respect for WP:CANVASS.

Table of contents to OOK-related stuff

Here's a directory of outline support pages:

Keep up the great work!

The Transhumanist    04:26, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

WPOOK advert banner under development, here's the beta...

Thank you to those who suggested WPOOK have an animated advert banner. Penubag got working on it right away. Here's what he's come up with so far:

Penubag needs feedback.

I've posted a few changes for him to make to it.

Please post additional comments and suggestions for him at User talk:Penubag#Chocolate banner.

Thank you.

The Transhumanist    02:38, 9 June 2009 (UTC)

Outline collaboration!

As you know, Penubag is working on a banner to advertise the Outline WikiProject. And he's almost done.

The banner prominently presents the "Outline of chocolate", which of course will become the most widely advertised outline as soon as the banner goes live. The first thing many editors will do after seeing the banner is look for that outline.

The problem is, we don't have one.

So that's our first outline collaboration!

I started a draft this morning.

It needs to be finished and moved to the article namespace before we can start using Penubag's banner ad!

Come join in on the fun. It's chocolate!

The Transhumanist    22:00, 9 June 2009 (UTC)