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Revision as of 13:39, 3 December 2005

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Welcome to the talk page of I, Hollow Wilerding, also known as Courtni Wilerding. I hope you enjoy your time editing on Misplaced Pages.

Cool (song)

Thanks for catching the one I missed. Jkelly 03:09, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Questioning comments made by User:Mel Etitis

Taken from User:Extraordinary Machine's talk page:

I may be wrong, but judging by the inability to write without violent language (as with the last part of this) and edit summaries like this, Hollow Wilerding seems to me to be Winnermario (who, though claiming to be a University-age female was clearly an adolescent male; he explained his e-mail address by saying that he shared it with a younger cousin...). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 15:34, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Gossip is not appreciated. For one, you accusing me of being User:Winnermario with two individual edits that don't live up to the standards of Mariah are vile — she did tell me to avoid you, and that I've been attempting to accomplish. And two, your comment about Mariah pretending to be in University is interestingly amusing. Do you honestly believe that she's an adolescent male because she happens to share her PC with her younger cousin? It's preposterous. And those edits are not violent; they are merely my questioning evolving into minor fury. --Hollow Wilerding 02:05, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Please prove your maturity by not reformatting the charts until a consensus has actually been met with at the WikiMusic Discussion. The fact that you do makes you look desperate and demanding. --Hollow Wilerding 02:20, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I'd also like to make a personal comment: the fact that you believe me to be an adolescent male (oh dear) veers me to believe whether you are really an Oxford professor. I was wondering if that's your tactic to receiving honourship and praise here on Misplaced Pages. But that's fine with me, one way or another. You don't believe me to be a University-student—although I am not Mariah, but a woman named Courtni teaching high school science and English—so I fail to believe that you are an Oxford professor. Besides, what would a busy professor with so much time on his hands be doing on an internet encyclopedia? It boggles me. --Hollow Wilerding 02:27, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

You mean " busy professor with little time on his hands", right? --Maru (talk) Contribs 02:40, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

No I do not. --Hollow Wilerding 21:28, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm, Winnernario is supposed to be a University student studying English who thinks that "numberous" is a word, whose English is often so grammatically peculiar as to be genuinely obscure, whose first name just happens to be that of one of the main pop stars whose articles he edits, and who acts and writes like an adolescent boy. You're supposed to be an English teacher who uses words like "honourship", whose English is grammatically peculiar ("veers me to believe", "if that's your tactic to receiving...", etc.), and whose behaviour involves the aggression and petulance of an adolescent boy. No, obviously not the same people, obviously two mature women after all... --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 08:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

My grammar is only incorrect when I am typing, let me make that clear now — this is because I always assume I will get my point across in an easier fashion, but this has always failed me. Verbally, I am much better.

Anyway, "...and whose behaviour involves the aggression and petulance of an adolescent boy". You are in no position to assume this because you cannot prove it. But I would like to know why you do assume that I am Mariah, who you assume to be an adolescent boy. I will also express something Mariah said somewhere on a talk page on Misplaced Pages (although I cannot remember where it is posted): "No one has perfect English". This includes you, Mel Etitis. I will never have perfect English, and you will never have perfect English. Another point I would like to bring up is Mariah's name: ...So what? She having the same name as Mariah Carey is completely irrelevant to this discussion. --Hollow Wilerding 21:28, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Well it seems as though you did not reply to my above message for obvious reasons. I am not surprsied. Also, Mariah thought "numberous" was a word? I will give you that one, because you're right, it's not. But anyway, once you find evidence for your comments, that's when I will take them seriously. --Hollow Wilerding 21:01, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Kylie Minogue

I have nothing against Kylie, but if you think she is European I assume you also think that Madonna is British? --SMeeds 23:54, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry if my comment was not clear. As you now understand, I meant that she could not be described as a "European female solo artist", being Australian, but I assumed it to be an inadvertant error and therefore preferred alluding to it rather than stating the obvious so as not to risk offending you. --SMeeds 09:57, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

re: Crazy in Love

I'm confused. I reverted back to your own edits last night after an anonymous user separated the tables, and now that same anon has changed them back. --keepsleeping say what 02:06, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I think I understand now: you saw the edits the anon made and thought they were mine. I've just reverted the article again to the new chart format. --keepsleeping say what 02:15, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Re:Not to be pushy

Sorry for not doing it earlier, I'll get right on it now. And I don't think you were being pushy at all, just less absent-minded than me :). Extraordinary Machine 22:01, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

re: Hollaback Girl.

I haven't had the opportunity to be properly acquianted with you yet. My name is Courtni, aka Hollow Wilerding. I've been meaning to ask you a question regarding Hollaback Girl, but my mind was apparently elsewhere at the times. Do you know how to retrieve a sample of the song? Unfortunately my knowledge has not been enhanced to the point where I could go ahead and place the recording in the article myself. --Hollow Wilerding 22:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi. I can make you a sample of "Hollaback Girl". It will be 30 seconds long and in .OGG format, to conform with Misplaced Pages standards. Just let me know what general 30 seconds you want (the intro and hook, a verse, or the "this shit is bananas...b-a-n-a-n-a-s" part). If you'd rather do it yourself, you'll need a good copy of the song and the Audacity sound editing program. Peace. --FuriousFreddy 23:07, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you muchly. Well I was previously test-running the track itself (my husband can't stand it; watch me suffer), and I came to a conclusion that from 2 min, 32 sec. to 3 min, 02 sec. would be best, as the time limit contains the "Shit is bananas" bridge twice, the chorus, and one line from the "Oooh, this my shit" hook. Is it within your reach to accomplish the above? --Hollow Wilerding 23:11, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I put the sample into the article. Tell me what you think. --FuriousFreddy 23:23, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I like it, and I thank you. However, I have one more request. Would it be possible for you to label it the way it is in Cool (song)? I.E. "Thirty second sample of 'Cool'" over "Hollaback Girl", and removing the "description"? Then I think this article is complete! :D Much appreciated! --Hollow Wilerding 23:46, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Removed the decription. --FuriousFreddy 00:22, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for your help! I was just curious to know, do you think this article has what it takes to become featured without any other edits? --Hollow Wilerding 02:05, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Here are my suggestions:

• Copyedit the entire article, checking for grammar, repetitions, and excess information. For example, the article currently states that Stefani says the word "shit" in the song three times. There are similar akwardly worded paragraphs, particularly the first paragraph uder "Composition and meanings".

• Revise the "chart performance" section song. As it currently stands, there is a lot of dead weight present there, such as:

On the opposite spectrum, even though the song has hip hop influences, it was able to crossover and chart on the Hot A/C chart of the Adult Top 40 at number eighteen. This position is notable as the Hot A/C is usually a relatively conservative chart, and it usually will not play urban music or any music influenced by hip hop. Because of these positions, "Hollaback Girl" has become one of the most successful crossover hits of all time, as it was able to chart on both ends of the chart spectrum. These actions led to Stefani being labelled as an urban artist for a short period of time.

• This paragraph is somewhat awkward, and could easily become a sentence long:Even though the song has hip hop influences, it was able to crossover and chart on the usually conservative Adult Top 40 chart at number eighteen.

• Both of these positions were the highest that a non-African-American/Urban Latino solo artist had attained on those two charts in the 2000s - Ugh. Not well-worded. "Non hip-hop/R&B artist" reads much better, and is race-neutral (what is an "Urban Latino"? OmegaWikipedia tried to squeeze that made-up term into the R&B article).

• The music video should be mentioned before the chart performance.

• Might want to name the other Neptune (Chad Hugo) somewhere in the article as the song's other producer besides Pharrell. --FuriousFreddy 02:16, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

The edits (with the exception of the music video suggestion) have been made. Thanks so much. --Hollow Wilerding 02:37, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

I know what it takes to go solo to make a featured article (see Caulfield Grammar School), and will have a look over Cool to help, but please do not attack or in any way send negative messages to those who oppose the FA. There are legitimate objections to this article, and so you should probably realise thi FA will not succeed now, and work towards preparing for a second dig. Good faith can't just be tagged on the end of comments to smooth everything over. Harro5 21:06, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Removing my edit at Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Hollaback Girl

In response to this edit of yours, I explained to you here why that is a useful thing to do. In this case, it is probably unnecessary, as User:Raul654 is very savvy and would be unlikely to count those votes in the first place. Jkelly 01:53, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

re: sample.

It's actually 29.8 seconds. --FuriousFreddy 17:08, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Advice

My advice is to keep working on it, and address as many of the objections as you can. And be as friendly as you can manage about it, because attitude counts; people will be much more strict about their standards if they get a bad feeling about you as the nominator. It looks daunting now, I admit, but even if you can't get it featured this time, if you work hard at it your odds of succeeding in a future second nom are improved. Everyking 00:45, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I guess you've run into the anti-pop culture bias on Misplaced Pages. I've battled against it before, too. Some people don't believe that fame (or even massive, global fame) is sufficient for genuine notability; they want a song to "stand the test of time" and have lasting influence. Which I think is completely preposterous, but you just have to try to work around that bias. Everyking 01:02, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Hollaback Girl

Don't give up; you can't make a nomination end prematurely (at least I don't think so), so it's going to sit there for at least a few more days. One big thing people are looking for is more information on how the song was made ,and its importance in pop culture outside of its sales statistics and music video, which are ususally small elements of a popular song's legacy (the exceptions are videos by people like Michael Jackson). Being a number-one song, I'm sure places like MTV.com and VH1.com have articles about Stefani and the song, and she has to have done some magazine interviews (Rolling Stone, Spin, Blender, etc.) on the song and/or her album. Basically, information on why the song is important outside of its success. You should especially see if you can find some user reviews online of the song, to give an indication of its significant popularity in dance clubs (I've seen people lose their minds when "Hollaback Girl" comes on in a club). Also, since the Neptunes' stamp is so firmly imprinted into the song, a comparison (or at least a mention) of similar-sounding records the Neptunes have produced (several Kelis songs, "Shake Ya Ass" by Mystikal, and, for the minimalist effect, "Grindin'" by the Clipse come to mind, but there are probably more and better examples).

The other big thing is that it needs a rewrite. Most of the article reads typical of the work of another Misplaced Pages user, who was known for writing long articles on pop songs that always needed prose cleanup (and he would often scream bloody murder whenever anyone would try). The big difference between the articles for "Hollaback Girl" and "Cool" are that Cool (song) goes into detail about why the song is important (it's about Stefani's personal life, and it explains how and why). "Hollaback Girl" isn't as personal or deep, true, but it's not a meaningless song at all.

Just don't give up so early. --FuriousFreddy 01:07, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

As far as right right now, I'm trying to tie up tonight's editing (I have two deadlines looming over my head; I shouldn't even be here). If you aren't take care of it before the nomination period is over, give me a few weeks to get more free time in my schedule back, and we'll see what we can do about revising the article (because that revision -- I've done similar ones before -- is going to take me several hours) and finding more information. --FuriousFreddy 01:21, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

BTW, it's nice of you to take on your friend's editing tasks. I'm not at all the world's most knowledgable source on R&B music, but it's such a gaping hole in the Misplaced Pages that I dedicated myself to working on it (although I listened to a lot of the newer stuff, I'd only heard about 5 or 6 Temptations songs before I came here, if you can believe that). I know lots of people whose knowledge of R&B makes me look like an embarrasment, but I can't see m to get them to sign up here. --FuriousFreddy 01:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Kidding? Wha?

Are you serious? Andrevan 02:00, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I have nothing but respect for Silence. He's a great man and a credit to Misplaced Pages. What could you possibly have against him, and why would you suggest that I dislike him? Andre (talk) 02:00, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Hollaback Girl research

Here are a couple of things I found at MTV.com: http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1497721/20050303/story.jhtml

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1507837/20050818/story.jhtml

These should be good for background information expansion. --FuriousFreddy 03:10, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Userpage

Thanks for your concern. Can you exaplin what you mean by It isn't very polite and puts-down a fellow Wikipedian. I really don't understand what the problem is. Guettarda 04:08, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

Well unless I am terribly mistaken—in which I offer you an utter-most apology—are you not referring to another individual on Misplaced Pages? That is I believe the front of your userpage suggests: I have been "attacked" as Guettarda - Liberal Admin, and criticised for editing topics I know about. I don't think there is any better compliment here in Misplaced Pages. Maybe I'll add that to my sig. I am truly sorry if what I read was miscommunicated to me. --Hollow Wilerding 13:54, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Not sure how it would amount to a put-down. It's like the note at the bottom of the page saying "This page has been vandalised six times" is a put-down, or like people listing the names they have been called. I find the idea of being called a liberal as an insult and being "attacked" for editing in the area in which I have my PhD terribly amusing. I don't really think the moniker "liberal" fits me all that well, but if people consider me a "Liberal Admin" I might as well list it at the top of my user page. It's much better than having someone say that I kept my views hidden, or I hid the fact that I was an admin.

In addition, I don't see how reporting a factual quote, and including a diff, is a put-down. It's simply reporting. Guettarda 16:35, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I am generously sorry for misunderstanding. --Hollow Wilerding 16:40, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I moved it down the page. Is this less likely to be misinterpreted? Guettarda 16:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

It's preferrable. Thanks muchly. --Hollow Wilerding 16:56, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Your message

I would like to point out as per this edit that removing capital letters from bracket-song titles is incorrect due to songwriting limits. Please refer to Billboard.com or another source for accurate writing. (I suppose this applies to Wikipedian users more so, this being an encyclopedia and all that jazz.) Thanks for understanding. --Hollow Wilerding 16:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

1. I'm afraid that I don't know what you mean by "songwriting limits", nor why you think that they override normal English conventions and the logic of the case.
2. I don't take my understanding of correct writing from music journalists. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:27, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Unfortunately for you, as this—"Hollow Wilerding (Mel Etitis Remix)"—is the standard form of CD single labelling for song titles in non-studio recording, they will be displayed around Misplaced Pages with their accompanying track listings and formats. --Hollow Wilerding 17:32, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

If the song title is "Hollow Wilerding", and Mel Etitis does a remix of it, then it's "Hollow Wilerding" remixed by Mel Etitis — or "Hollow Wilerding" (Mel Etitis remix). What the people who print CD labels call it, I'm not interested (though I should add that I have a number of CDs including remixes in which the booklets, inserts, and labels all give the correct versions, as explained above). --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:55, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with Mel Etitis on this one. The capitalisation of words such as "Remix" and "Album Version" looks very odd to me. I hold Mel in high regard as an editor, and his edits seem to be useful and made in good faith, as far as I can see (this is why I refrained from being shoehorned into your disagreement with him about the sections on Rich Girl), so please don't leave comments on my talk page like "I am beginning to wonder if he is here only to hassle its users" and "His behaviour is not one to clash with, and unfortunately, I've met with this fate". Thanks Extraordinary Machine 22:01, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

FAC for Hollaback Girl

Please try and be less defensive - I know some people are unjustifiedly stating opinions about the quality of the subject matter, but don't assume everyone's objections are rooted in prejudice. User:Carnildo, for example, is equally a stickler about fair use images in every candidate article. Misplaced Pages's standards for featured articles go up over time, and this is one way that they have. After all, being sued over pictures would be even worse!

I personally think Misplaced Pages's breadth is a strength, not a weakness, and that every subject is unimportant to someone. I got Canon T90 featured, which is pretty much a camera-fan's article, and in my opinion just as unimportant a subject. If we can write a quality article about something, it should be able to get featured. Thanks, —Matthew Brown (T:C) 21:47, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Arrested Development

I've attempted to fix all your objections. Let me know if you have any more, or please update your vote. Thanks. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-20 22:05

• I don't understand where this end spoiler tag is supposed to be placed? There are spoilers throughout the article, not just in the plot section. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-21 00:19
  • That's fine. Done. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-21 00:25
  • I've properly formatted the references and placed direct citation links where possible. — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-21 01:18

Re: Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates/Hollaback Girl

FYI, I've taken the unusual step of starting the nomination over, for reasons I have made clear on that page. Raul654 09:25, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Single cover images on Cool (song)

Per Misplaced Pages:Fair use, copyrighted images shouldn't be used on articles for decoration, nor should they be used if they have little relation to the articles in which they are being used in. Thanks. Extraordinary Machine 20:55, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

I already did. Extraordinary Machine 21:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Nomination process

I was wondering if you could end the Hollaback Girl nomination process? Being the only user working on the article, I would find it acceptable to take a break from all the fuss that has been created at the FAC page. It would be much appreciated, whether the result is featured or contested. If it is perhaps the latter, I will give it another attempt next month. Thank you. –Hollow Wilerding 20:55, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• The article has improved substantially, but I still don't think there's consensus. I agree that another nomination later would probably be the best idea. Raul654 21:07, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

• Thank you. –Hollow Wilerding 00:06, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

An interesting question

Due to the most uttering-awesome work that you've exemplified on Black pepper—which will be the featured article on the main page this coming weekend—I was just curious to know if you wanted to work on an article together sometime. You know, anything, as I really require a break from all of the hustle and bustle that has become Hollaback Girl. Whatever your reply, I am content. –Hollow Wilerding 00:09, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

That's just... super flattering. :-) I'm working on Butter right now, and it's pretty far along, so I don't think it would be much fun at this point. But trying out some collaborative editing sounds like it might be fun. I haven't picked out anything to work on after Butter; got any ideas? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 00:33, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Nothing in particular, but I have been leaning toward something categorized in the fruit/vegetable section. –Hollow Wilerding 01:53, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Gwen Stefani quote on Cool (song)

Actually, the quote does have a source. It was one of the two references I http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Cool_%28song%29&diff=29519988&oldid=29519438 added] recently. Sorry for the misunderstanding...I thought I had responded to you about this issue here, but I guess I forgot to click "Save page". Sorry! Extraordinary Machine 20:51, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

It's okay, we all make silly errors; could you add the source since you were the one who discovered it? Much appreciated, as always. –Hollow Wilerding 20:55, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

It's from the first of the two references, the "Gwen Stefani's Song About Tony Kanal To Be Her Next Single" article from MTV.com. Extraordinary Machine 20:58, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Hollaback Article

Hey! Sure I would love to help out. Just let me know if you need anything, I seem to do well finding information on release formats, charts and certifications. Underneath-it-All 05:45, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Generally, it's a good read, though it does read a little slow in places (the "Chart performance" section, for example), and I agree with the commentators at FAC that the image from the music video of Stefani taking the photograph seems to be used for decorative purposes (you could easily argue fair use on the other screenshot, though, as it may be important to note that the Harajuku Girls are a recurring theme of the promotion for L.A.M.B.). I can't see any huge problems with it. I suggest that you file a new request at Misplaced Pages:Peer review for the article, and mention that it is a failed FAC, as it may get more comments that way. Also, if you want more reviews from print publications rather than just online, then you could visit this link (don't know what I was doing on a Gwen Stefani fansite at the time). Oh, and thanks for the compliment, but I am a teenager. Honest. :) Extraordinary Machine 13:39, 3 December 2005 (UTC)