Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:04, 5 December 2005

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please make a header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

When placing evidence here, please be considerate of the arbitrators and be concise. Long, rambling, or stream-of-conciousness rants are not helpful.

As such, it is extremely important that you use the prescribed format. Submitted evidence should include a link to the actual page diff; links to the page itself are not sufficient. For example, to cite the edit by Mennonot to the article Anomalous phenomenon adding a link to Hundredth Monkey use this form: .

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.

Please make a section for your evidence and add evidence only in your own section. Please limit your evidence to a maximum 1000 words and 100 diffs, a much shorter, concise presentation is more likely to be effective. Please focus on the issues raised in the complaint and answer and on diffs which illustrate behavior which relates to the issues.

If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please cite the evidence in your own section and provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Do not edit within the evidence section of any other user.

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The Arbitrators may analyze evidence and other assertions at /Workshop. /Workshop provides for comment by parties and others as well as arbitrators. After arriving at proposed principles, findings of fact or remedies voting by Arbitrators takes place at /Proposed decision. Only Arbitrators may edit /Proposed decision.

Evidence presented by {Johnski}

This is my initial response to Davidpdx's allegations. I am not a part of an organizational push, only tried to take an interesting article and make it more interesting by showing more than one side to the story, and adding important U.S. governmental quotes and links, removing bias, toning down strong language, removing errors, etc. Made many good arguments for these changes, corrections, additions, all of which were ignored.

There may have been a few 3RR violations in the early stages out of not understanding the rules, but mostly tried to edit to improve the article instead of merely reverting.

Some of the links provided by Davidpdx are mis-characterized by false dating, but that could be a simple mistake on the part of Davidpdx.

Davidpdx has become more polite recently, but has been cruel in what he has written in the past.

Davidpdx has taken control over the DOM article, but has never contributed one edit to it other than adding "fraud" as a category.

His allegations herein have not shown any substance, only links expecting the arbitrators to figure out why mine and others articles were not better than the ones he and a few others insist on reverting to.

Even my last DOM edit which only corrected a mis-characterization of an article from the Washington Post where I changed "probably" to what the article really stated, "you get the feeling", they will not let stand. Davidpdx showed some interest in this change, but cowered to Gene Poole when he insisted to let it stand as "probably" which is what Poole claimed was what the article really meant even though it said, "you get the feeling".

I hope that the wisdom in my article I created about Wikilante will someday be accepted, as it wasn't intended as harassment, only a cry for help with Davidpdx's vigilante behavior. I also hoped it would help him to see what he was doing, and could be a useful wikiword to be used when vigilante behavior was found elsewhere by others. Although Davidpdx's behavior has impeded the progress of the DOM article, the main culprit, is Gene Poole. Although Poole has made some useful contributions to the related article, Poole seems to have no regard for the truth, is flippant, full of insults, and writes whatever suits his fancy. Sincerely, Johnski 09:55, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

First, please tell me how links I provided are "mis-characterized?" How can I be providing "false dates" when the Misplaced Pages server records the time and date stamp in terms of when the edit occurs, not me? The links were pulled directly off the history page of Dominion of Melchizedek article.

you wrote 5 to 7 Sept

but looking at the first link it is Sept 4th. As pointed out that could be a error on your part and I am not saying you did it on purpose.

Second, you have had a pattern of blaming one person in particular for what you deem "vigilante behavior." I will gladly provide the diffs to show where you claim for quite sometime that I was the only one giving you a hard time. Now, your claiming Gene Poole is the main culprit {ringleader, etc). So which is it? Make up your mind? The truth is, there are nine people who have constantly oppose the content of your edits, with good reason. We have stated those reasons as the same reason why we filed a request for arbitration. Stop claiming that only one person opposes your edits. There are many people that are on record who have reverted your edits over and over again.

Your behavior is vigilante, where I believe others may not go that far. Yes there are others that share your twisted view of me and my work, but Gene Poole, a bully, has more teeth in his bite, and he may have a few sock-puppets to boot. If you are innocent, why have you and Centauri (Gene's sock-puppet?) refused to disclose your IP addresses?

Third, as I have learned from looking up IP addresses, there are only three people that support the edits you are trying to make, not the 7 to 10 people you claim. I have obtained information from IP addresses which show where those individuals live. It is a lesser charge then the sockpuppet accusation, but nonetheless proves collaboration on your part to collude with others to make changes (including removing information) to cover up the fraud on the part of DOM. I have not yet provided the diffs to talk about the problems with the content, we will be doing that as more evidence is posted. The diffs I have posted show exactly when you and your co-conspirators {KAJ and SamuelSpade) edited based on the time stamp on the Misplaced Pages server.Davidpdx 11:36, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

That is only your opinion, not facts. I only have 1 IP address. I have no interest in removing any thing in the article that doesn't belong there, which means two sides of the story, not just the one you want to see. There is loads of stuff in my versions that include the negative parts. Let me see you disprove that. My only efforts have been to bring balance and improve an interesting article to make it more interesting and diverse for the viewing audience. You can see others besides myself and those you claim in concert with me, have recently expressed a desire to see more content. Sincerely, Johnski 05:13, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

First of all, I've asked you nicely not to put comments inbetween mine. I'll ask you nicely one more time to change that. I believe it's impolite to do so and I believe I told you that before on the DOM page.

Second, you have removed several creditable sources that are negative in terms of DOM and not ever given any reason why you have removed them other then your usual rhetoric about what you called "fair and balanced." I'm sorry your idea of fair and balanced is about that of Fox News. I will be glad to provide you proof you have removed sources that have been a part of the article for sometime and not showed any ryme or reason for it. Would you like to show me exactly where you stated why you have removed sources? I'd be interested to see such a post on your part.

Furthermore, I'd also be more then happy to provide proof of your constant reverts against the consensus of others. As well as showing IP providers in terms of user names associated with pro-Dom reverts. Notice in my rebuttal I never said you had more then one IP address (which you incorrectly stated above), but that you and two other people are working in conjunction to whitewash the DOM page. Davidpdx 06:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Dear Davidpdx, you are the one that is not polite writing in the section that is exclusively for me to write in, and you noticed I didn't write in your section. I'm sorry that you feel it is impolite the way I try to communicate with you. I have not always repeated my reasons each time I revert or edit, but briefly, I've removed stuff that is either a repeated link, or dublicated information, the same as in the other link, for example the scamdog link doesn't add anything new or different or is from a source that isn't credible. What credentials does the scamdog web site have to make it worthy of Misplaced Pages, or what does it add that is new or different to make the article more informative? However, it is you that should be proving stuff as you are the one that brought the arb case out of fear that I would do it first after I told you that would be my only solution if you didn't accept mediation. Sincerely, Johnski 07:38, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I am permitted (as I understand) to rebut what you say. In addition, I did ask you polite (but firm] manner to remove the comments. I could have said several other things. I will ask you again to remove the comments, otherwise I'll ask the arbitration committee to do it for you.

Second, In your initial rebuttal, you made several counter-claims that were false, which I will continue to set straight. This included a statement by you insinuating that the evidence I provide was "mis-characterized by false dating" as well as stating that I am the person causing all the problems. Yet it is you, SamuelSpade and KAJ that have exhibited behavior showing you thinkyour above the rules of Misplaced Pages.

Third, I have only started to post evidence. It is by far not all of the evidence, but about 1/3rd of what I will post. Mediation was not an option, therefore the next step was arbitration. I did file a case for mediation (I'd be happy to provide you with the link if you don't believe me) and was told it wasn't a good fit. If you look back at the arbitration filling, one of the mediators stated that I had indeed contacted them about this. It's just as simple as that. I also waited several days to see if things would calm down. The fact is, you, KAJ and SamuelSpade relented on reverting several pages, so much so, that they had to be protected. You can try to twist it anyway you want, but that's the truth. Davidpdx 09:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Dear Davidpdx, you are not permitted to rebut what I say here in my area, which shows you do not read the rules. I am also not permitted to remove or move the comments already placed here. You don't have to ask the arbitration committee to do it for you because they will when they finally see it.

Second, My behavior hasn't shown anymore than yours that I think I'm above the rules of Misplaced Pages.

Third, Mediation would have been an option, if you pointed out that I requested it of you and therefore we both asked for it. It was Wikifacts and Gene Poole's little edit war that led to the protection of the DOM article. You can try to twist it anyway you want, but that's the truth. Sincerely, Johnski 06:05, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

• ===Removal of Negative Information ===

Davidpdx wrote in the evidence section below: "Here are diffs showing first the version that has consensus and then his whitewashed version . But (Scamdog) is not the only site Johnski has removed, another one is called Quatloos! which is a non-profit financial & tax fraud education website. When he removes these links, he also removes the quotes that were in the article. This is again, essentially whitewashing the article of negative links and quotes in favor of the very waterdown misquotes he would rather use."

• This again shows that Davidpdx doesn't read the articles, or look at the links, as the link to quatloos is there right after the most damning statement about DOM and purportedly made by John Shockey, former employee of the US OCC. Davidpdx can not show one misquote from me. Sincerely, Johnski 20:13, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

<US OCC issue>-Evidence_presented_by_{Johnski}-2005-12-01T19:16:00.000Z">

Davidpdx complains to this arbitration panel that “Johnski also references an alert by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which is part of the US government, right after the Quatloos quote. He has framed the quote as follows: ‘However, the only official reference to Melchizedek by the U.S. Comptroller of the Currency refers to Melchizedek as a ‘non-recognized sovereignty’ that ‘licensed’ Caribbean Bank of Commerce.’”

What Davidpx fails to point out is that after Jdavidb showed that “however” wasn’t a good follow up to the statement from Shockey, I never used “however” again in this context. In my last attempt to substantially improve the article on November 13, 2005, I wrote, “The U.S. Comptroller of the Currency website is less vocal and only refers to Melchizedek as a 'non-recognized sovereignty' that 'licensed' Caribbean Bank of Commerce." In the external links this is called a “warning” from the US OCC as seen further below.

It seems fitting that if you are going to quote a former employee of the US OCC that you also quote from that employee’s boss from their official web site on the subject.

Davidpdx goes on to mis-characterize, “He (Johnski) tries to make this quote look like a form of diplomatic recognition by the US Government. While the document itself is referenced after the quote, his version fails to mention that the source is in fact a alert sent to banks regarding fradulent banks licensed by DOM. The full source document states: 'Information has been received that the subject entity holding a bank license issued by the Dominion of Melchizedek, a non-recognized sovereignty, has an unauthorized address in the United States. This entity, subject to Alert 98-14, dated April 21, 1998, subsequently had its Antigua license reinstated. However, the government of Antigua and Barbuda, through its supervisor of banks, has recently given notice that the subject entity's license will again be revoked.’"

While it may or may not be true that the alert is regarding “fraudulent” banks, the alert doesn’t call the banks “fraudulent” as Davidpdx falsely claims. While Davidpdx claims to have worked with me, he could have easily come up with a compromise language to address his concern, but only reverts the article to versions that he never authors.

Davidpdx continues, “After looking at the full quote, one can see this has nothing to do with recognition as Johnski is trying to make the quote appear. The US government does not recognize DOM, however over and over again in both his reverts and on the talk pages, Johnski tries to push the idea that this is a form of recognition. If anything, the reference proves DOM's questionable nature because of its relationship with banks that commit fradulent activites.”

This begs the question, if the US OCC website "proves" what Davidpdx claims, then why doesn’t he want to see the referenced quotes in the article?

I am not inserting anything of my opinion about recognition in the article, only quoting what the US OCC web site states. My opinions on the talk page are only opinions, but I have never indicated that the reference to DOM on the US OCC web site is any form of dejure or “diplomatic” recognition of DOM as Davidpdx falsely claims.

Also, the November 15 article referenced above does have a link in the external links to the Quatloos article here:

• Dominion of Melchizedek as a Scam - Collection of all negative articles and opinions about Melchizedek and its founders, quoting only the negative aspects, and the criminal activities of the banks it licensed.
• Warning from the Comptroller of the US Treasury Department.

Certainly my last version needs more work, but instead of merely reverting, Davidpdx and others should try to keep the stuff that belongs there, such as quotes from US government web sites, more details of DOM’s origin, etc. There are a growing number that see the need for this as evidenced on the DOM talk page.

• <Selective Use of Sources>

Davidpdx falsely claims that by bringing two quotes of the SEC case I am using selective sources. The opposite is the truth. Adding more evidence from the same source is being more inclusive. Davidpdx writes, under the heading Selective Use of Sources, "Under the heading of 10 November 2005 rewrite, Johnski again references a document which calls into question DOM's role in banks who are committing fradulent acts. However, the primary purpose of using this piece of information has nothing to do with the true content of the document, which is SEC Commission Release announcing a settlement in the case against World Financial & Investment Co., Inc. and Victor M. Wilson. The part of this release Johnski pushes is references is the fact that the SEC used, 'The Dominion of Melchizidek has a website promoting itself as a sovereign entity, recognized by certain governments.' Again, trying to imply that the US is giving recognition to DOM as well as leaving out the fact that the documents he is referencing have to do with fraudlent banks licensed by the organization he's trying to push.".

My last attempt on November 13 , to balance the two statements from the US SEC was as follows: "When brining a lawsuit against a New York lawyer, the Dominion of Melchizedek was described as 'non-existent' by the United States Securities and Exchange Commission. . When the SEC concluded that case, it wrote that the 'Dominion of Melchizidek has a website promoting itself as a sovereign entity, recognized by certain governments.'"

The "non-existent" statement by the US SEC was never removed by me, only balanced by the fact that the SEC ended with a different statement than it started with. In this case, it is Davidpdx that wants an unbalanced, selective account of the facts. Again, if Davidpdx was really interested in reaching consensus, he could have easily added something to point out that the New York lawyer was purportedly using a DOM bank but the reader has two links to learn the whole story. My intention isn't to push anything here, just give a more complete picture. I didn't write what the SEC wrote, am not claiming that it is any form of recognition, only think that it needs to be quoted to make the article fair and balanced. Johnski 19:16, 1 December 2005 (UTC)"> ">

• • What happened.

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Evidence presented by Davidpdx

Harrassment by Johnski

27 Oct

User:Johnski creating an article on Misplaced Pages called Wikilante to criticize those he disagrees with. The article itself was tagged Speedy Deletion, then recreated and deleted and protected so that he could not recreate it. User:Sjakkalle stated in the edit summary of the page, (that the article was) "Recreated after speedy deletion, created by a disgruntled user.”

"A Wikilante is a rogue member of the Wikipedian community that takes matters into his/her own hands by blocking honest attempts to improve an article. The word Wikilante was inspired by the meaning of Vigilante. It was developed as a result of wikilante behavior on certain controversial articles published on Misplaced Pages. It is not to be confused with those dedicated Wikipedians that vigilantly revert vandalism, and attempt to block disruptive behavior." Davidpdx 04:05, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Organizational effort to POV push

We believe that the edits with regard to the pages mentioned are part of an organizational push by members of DOM. The IP addresses are located within the confines of California, Australia and New York. Here is a timeline which will show a planned effort on the part of those mentioned to alter DOM articles to push their agenda.

The reverting on the part of those named goes back even further then what I'm going to show. On the talk page, a few other editors posted comments about ongoing vandalism as far back as July and August of this year. Therefore, it's unclear exactly how long this has been going on.

5 to 7 Sept

User:Johnski under the IP address User:67.124.49.20 (note this was before he officially signed up for a user name) made the following edits , , , , , , ,

8 to 11 Sept

User:208.57.91.27 made the following edits , , , ,

12 Sept

User:Johnski under the IP address User:67.124.49.20 (note this was before he officially signed up for a user name) made the following edits , , , ,

21 to 25 Sept

User:Samspade also known as User:SamuelSpade, User:208.57.91.27 and User:Rriter made the following edits , , , , , , , , , ,

28 Sept to 3 Oct

User:Johnski made the following edits under both his name and IP User:67.124.49.20 , , , , , , , , , , , ,

14 to 19 Oct

User:Johnski made the following edits , , , , ,

14 to 20 Oct

User:207.47.122.10 and User:KAJ (new user) made the following edits , , , , , , , ,

26 to 27 Oct

User:Wiki-Facts (new user) made the following edits , , , , , , , , , ,

(Note: I think this may be Wiki-Facts IP Address since he was making the same edits that happened under that user name and on the same day. The two IP addresses used that day to revert the article are: User:202.162.66.238 and User:202.162.64.50. He may have made the edits while he was logged out of Misplaced Pages and was unaware of it.)

, , , , (again under the IP address, but it is Wiki-Facts ID), , (again under the IP address, but it is Wiki-Facts ID), , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , (also under IP address)

Note: After these two days, Wiki-Facts has never been heard from again.

26 to 27 Oct

User:Johnski made the following edits , ,

10 Nov

User:KAJ made the following edits , ,

13 to 16 Nov

User:Johnski made the following edits , , , ,

Davidpdx 06:46, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

3RR Violations

6 September

User:67.124.49.20(again as I stated, this is User:Johnski}, , , , , ,

12 September

User:67.124.49.20(again as I stated, this is User:Johnski} , , , ,

29 September

User:Johnski , , , , , ,

26 to 27 Oct

User:Wiki-Facts As stated above he edited the DOM article 31 times in one day and reverted the page 10 times in one day.

I won't repost the links, because it's going to be too long. You can see the same date in the section above though.

Davidpdx 07:45, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Reverting without Consensus, Inability to show good faith and discuss before reverting

My experience with his underhanded tactics goes back to when I first had a discussion with Johnski regarding the page. Johnski constantly reverted the page, even when it was being discussed on the talk page. He will claim that I refused to ever work with him, which is not true. Simply put, he did exactly what he wanted instead of discussing it with others on the talk page. The first point where I started to talk to him about the DOM page was after I had been reverting his edits for a few weeks. He signed up for a user name and we began to discuss things on the talk pages.

He reverted the article both before and after he posted this section on the talk page on September, 30th at 00:01, which was titled "Compromise Language."

Yet the question I'm posing is: Did he show good faith? Here is an edit made on September 29, at 21:16, just less then three hours before he posted the "Compromise Language" section on the talk page. This was reverted by User:Centauri three hours later. .

On the talk page I posted the following note to Johnski:

"At this point, the page needs to be reverted to the previous version until either A) More people can be convinced that what you are saying is true or B) A compromise can be forged. If there neither can be reached, then the page needs to stay as is under Misplaced Pages rules. Davidpdx 9/30/05 4:16 (UTC)"

However, Johnski continued to persist and reverted the article the next day 9/30/05 at 13:13, putting in the edit summary, "Toned down and pointed to 1950s as date in respected "Context magazine article"".

Johnski then states in an edit summary of one of his reverts, "please detail which parts you consider misleading, nonesense and vandalism in a detailed report on the talk page." This honestly seems backwards to me. He is essentially claiming that his version has consensus and others need to consult him before reverting.

Between 9/30/05 and 10/3/05, Johnski reverted the page a total of six times. On 10/3/05 I posted yet another message on the talk page asking him to stop reverting the article:

"Please stop reverting this article until there is a consensus or compromise langauge that has been agreed to. The version posted by 03:54, 3 October 2005 El C is the version that should remain until further notice. Doing otherwise in insistance of compromise that does not exsist severely damages your creditablity. It also could hamper any possiblity of others to work with you to come to a meaningful agreement. Davidpdx 10/3/05 9:04 (UTC)

At that point there were 11 days in which the article was not reverted. Someone edited the article, the person did not have an username. The article should have been reverted back to the last clean version. Instead, Johnski posted his "alternative version" , which was reverted by me the next day.

By then I had given up, as he was not willing to show good faith in the discussion on the page and instead kept revering. This is an exchange which took place on the talk page in which he insists either it's his way or an edit war.

Breach of Good Faith

In terms of a compromise, there has been nothing agreed upon. Yet Johnski and Samspade continue to revert this page (and others) to reflect a minority opinion. In short, this is POV pushing and also a breach of good faith on negociating. The fact is that neither Johnski or Samspade are willing to provide the proof they say exsists to confirm the facts that they are claiming.

The compromise section was a waste of time. I'm no longer willing to find a compromise with those who wish to POV push and not follow the rules of Misplaced Pages. Therefore, because no compromise was made the page should remain as is. Davidpdx 06:42, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

David, I used a good faith opportuntity to revert after vandalism. I fear that the entire subject may be too much to work on at one time, so I'll give you point by point challenges, the first being, please cite me a credible source that states a "direct link to large scale banking fraud." Or let the person that wrote it cite it, if you can't find it, and give it here.Johnski 07:30, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I stand by my decision to hault a compromise discussion. The article that was reverted after the vandalism was the "alternative article" that you were proposing in the talk page, which had no consensus. This in itself shows a lack of good faith. Davidpdx 07:48, 15 October 2005 (U

So you'd rather see a reversion war than deal with a compromise? Cordially,Johnski 08:26, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Johnski also claims in the same conversation that there are 7 people which support his version. "I counted at least 7 different IP addresses and User names that showed tendency towards the versions that I worked on," Johnski said. The truth is, many of those IP addresses are from the same area or the reverts happened about the same time as a user name with the same or an IP that was very close to the same range. As I have shown in the other section, there are only 3 people which are pushing the same version as Johnksi, not 7 as he contends.

Johnski, in his rebuttle, has again tried to perpetrate the lie that I was not willing to work with him. As I have shown, even when I was talking to him, he reverted the article. He refuses to follow the rules, even when I was discussing it on the talk page. I have asked him time and time again, to explain why no one will work with him. It is because he has burnt bridges with other editors, including myself due to the fact he reverted the article even while a compromise was being attempted. Certainly, most would agree, if someone you work with burns you, you wouldn't want to work with them again. This is exactly why no one will listen to him anymore.

The other factor is Johnski uses circular arguments over and over again on the talk page, often not providing sources that prove his statements about DOM. Many editors have gotten sick of reading his rants on the talk page and reverting his pro-DOM versions. Davidpdx 16:04, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Removal of Negative Information

Johnski has a pattern of removing links that he deems are negative toward DOM. One such link is to Scamdog, which he claims is repetitive and has no useful information. Yet Scamdog does provide useful background information regarding some of the scams that are connected with the DOM. Here are diffs showing first the version that has consensus and then his whitewashed version .

But this is not the only site Johnski has altered, another one is called Quatloos! which is a non-profit financial & tax fraud education website. While he left the quote in with the appliciable reference, he removed the name of the website from the article as well as link from the external links section of the article. Davidpdx 21:24, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Selective Use of Sources

In his version, Johnski also references an alert by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, which is part of the US government, right after the Quatloos quote. He has framed the quote as follows:

"However, the only offical reference to Melchizedek by the U.S. Comptroller of the Currency refers to Melchizedek as a "non-recognized sovereignty" that "licensed" Caribbean Bank of Commerce."

He tries to make this quote look like a form of diplomatic recognition by the US Government. While the document itself is referenced after the quote, his version fails to mention that the source is in fact a alert sent to banks regarding fradulent banks licensed by DOM. The full source document states:

"Information has been received that the subject entity holding a bank license issued by the Dominion of Melchizedek, a non-recognized sovereignty, has an unauthorized address in the United States. This entity, subject to Alert 98-14, dated April 21, 1998, subsequently had its Antigua license reinstated. However, the government of Antigua and Barbuda, through its supervisor of banks, has recently given notice that the subject entity's license will again be revoked."

After looking at the full quote, one can see this has nothing to do with recognition as Johnski is trying to make the quote appear. The US government does not recognize DOM, however over and over again in both his reverts and on the talk pages, Johnski tries to push the idea that this is a form of recognition. If anything, the reference proves DOM's questionable nature because of its relationship with banks that commit fradulent activites.

Under the heading of 10 November 2005 rewrite, Johnski again references a document which calls into question DOM's role in banks who are committing fradulent acts. However, the primary purpose of using this piece of information has nothing to do with the true content of the document, which is SEC Commission Release announcing a settlement in the case against World Financial & Investment Co., Inc. and Victor M. Wilson. The part of this release Johnski pushes is references is the fact that the SEC used, "The Dominion of Melchizidek has a website promoting itself as a sovereign entity, recognized by certain governments." Again, trying to imply that the US is giving recognition to DOM as well as leaving out the fact that the documents he is referencing have to do with fraudlent banks licensed by the organization he's trying to push. Davidpdx 15:50, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Johnski Email/IP

In the course of email exchanges I was able to verify Johnski's email address and IP address as well as his IP provider. The following is taken from an email sent to me:

Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:54:13 -0700

X-Originating-IP:

Return-Path: <johnskiwiki@hotmail.com> Authentication-Results: mta203.mail.re2.yahoo.com from=hotmail.com; domainkeys=neutral

Received: from 64.4.54.108 (EHLO hotmail.com) (64.4.54.108) by mta203.mail.re2.yahoo.com with

SMTP; Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:54:13 -0700

Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 15 Oct 2005

02:38:36 -0700

Message-ID: <BAY20-F19DDF43868105EF1A9B2AFA17C0@phx.gbl>

Received: from 67.124.49.20 by by20fd.bay20.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 15 Oct 2005

09:38:35 GMT

X-Originating-IP:

X-Originating-Email:

X-Sender: johnskiwiki@hotmail.com

From: "John Ski" <johnskiwiki@hotmail.com>

Subject: Melchizedek controvery

Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2005 02:38:35 -0700

Mime-Version: 1.0

Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

X-OriginalArrivalTime: 15 Oct 2005 09:38:36.0053 (UTC) FILETIME=

IP and Provider Information: OrgName: SBC Internet Services

OrgID: SIS-80

Address: 2701 W 15th St PMB 236

City: Plano

StateProv: TX

PostalCode: 75075

Country: US

NetRange: 67.112.0.0 - 67.127.255.255

CIDR: 67.112.0.0/12

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NameServer: NS2.PBI.NET Davidpdx 05:01, 3 December 2005 (UTC) There is also a rather large discrepency in Johnski's information. On his blog, he claims he is a lawyer in New York. While his IP address has him located in (or near) Santa Rosa/San Jose area in California. You can enter his IP address which will bring up the same information I saw. I firmly believe Johnski is hiding something in terms of his location and knowledge of others who are editing the articles on Misplaced Pages. Davidpdx 14:04, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Reverting without Consensus

Those who support DOM have continually reverted without consensus. This goes back as far as August (possibly longer, but I'll focus on primarly September-November). Again, I will thwart the claim that Johnski has made that 7 people support his edits by referring to the section titled, Organizational Effort to POV Push. This is important as Johnski and the two others who supported the pro-DOM version were in the minority.

These are some examples of how pro-DOM editors have made it appear that their versions have consensus:

September 5, 2005 User:63.164.145.85 {Reverting to obviously more accurate edition}

September 8, 2005 User:208.57.91.27 (This one shows more balance and more interesting reality based reading)

September 12, 2005 User:67.124.49.20 Please stop the vandalism of this article)

September 21, 2005 User:208.57.91.27 (After reading the discussion page and the links this is what seems appropriate. Please give me your comments for my reaction before reverting.)

September 22, 2005 ] User:Rriter(I'm not a puppet, so please discuss before reverting)

September 23, 2005 User:208.57.91.27 (There is logic to this version and more supporting it now.)

September 27, 2005 User:71.130.204.74 (I see that around 6 others have voted for this version)

September 30, 2005 User:Johnski (please detail which parts you consider misleading, nonesense and vandalism in a detailed report on the talk page)

October 3, 2005 User:67.124.49.20 (less POV here)

October 16, 2005 User:Johnski (boldly nuetralizing bias - see talk page)

October 19, 2005 User:Johnski (Davidpdx, please stop reverting the baised version, or come up a someting in between to show an effort towards it. I put back the identifcation as a microation if that helps.)

October 21, 2005 User:SamuelSpade (Reality check good but which parts of which version? Davidpdx keeps reverting without explanation whereas myself and others have given arguements and references)

Just a note: If you look at the talk pages, SamuelSpade makes very few comments despite what he insists in the edit summary).

October 27, 2005 User:Wiki-Facts (Vandal - *** DO NOT REVERT LEST YOU BE BANNED PERMANENTLY FROM WIKIPEDIA ***)

November 10, 2005 User:KAJ (Mr. Davidpdx: Please show some effort in looking at my work, to see if there is anything you agree with with. Do you know how to compare articles to see the changes? Do some work on this or quit.)

November 13, 2005 User:Johnski (refer to talk page and before reverting see if you can't find something you can keep in your next revision)

Claim of Ecclesastical State

Yet another claim by Johnski and others who push a pro-DOM agenda is that DOM is a recognized Ecclesastical State. Before it was merged into Ecclesastical Government, Ecclesastical state was often reverted by Johnski and others who posted the claim that DOM was a recognized government. The only legitimate recognition, which is questionable at best, is given by the Central African Republic. The CAR has been noteworthing for having its own problems with fraud and in fact the government which gave the recognition to DOM has since fallen out of power.

Misrepresenting the rules of Misplaced Pages

This has been an ongoing problem with Johnski, KAJ, SamuelSpade and Wiki-Facts. Johnski has continually made blanket statements about the rules of Misplaced Pages, and is willing to change them at his leisure to push his agenda.

Claim regarding use of blogs

Johnski claimed using blogs was

Several people pointed out that using a blog was not appropriate, especially given the fact that the subject at hand was quite a controverial one. The blog was first added on September 16, 2005 , which was reverted by myself the next day. Johnski reverted it again on September 18, 2005 which was reverted by Shocktm.

Johnski proceeded to posted this on the talk page:

David,

I don't see discussion on this page for anything, so how did others add their edits to this page without discussion? Please explain. (Unsigned by Johnski)

I don't know what you're talking about! Nobody is REQUIRED to discuss anything on this page - they are free to edit the main article. If an edit is controversial, however, it will be discussed on this page. Otherwise, not. David Cannon 02:37, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

I was advised that I couldn't add a link to the article without first getting consensus on the discussion page so I looked here and wandered if that is true why no one else had to discuss the matter first before they post new editions, links. Since the link has been reverted indicating, "Revert. A Blog is not a good source for information on a islands history"

I found the blog to be the best I could find on the subject, linked not of the islands history, but of the secessionists movements there with court cases cited. Does anyone have a better link or should we revert back to the blog link? Johnski 05:53, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

Johnski recieved a few replies, one of which pointed out (correctly might I add) that if the subject is controversial, it should be discussed on the talk page. He also failed to add that the blog he referenced was his own!!! This glaring omission of information in terms of adding it and insisting it be used is quite a conflict of interest. Especially since Johnski lectures other editors about non-bias versions of articles.

I posted a rather long response to why I felt using the blog was not appropriate. On October 15, 2005 he left the following message that was extremly snotty:

David, Please read the rules again as blogs can be used in some cases. In this case, I feel that a New York lawyer may meet the requirements. See: http://headheeb.blogmosis.com/archives/015237.html Also, please note that everyone else here agreed with using the blog but you, putting you in the minority. Cordially,Johnski 07:23, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

While two editors said they had no problem with the use, they were also not made aware of the conflict of interest. Johnski also will not point out that several other users who regularly watch the pages did have a problem with the use of the blog. I posted the rules regarding the use of blogs and Johnski back off of using it any further.

Arbitration/Mediation

When Johnski was upset that his version was getting reverted by myself and others, he asked me if I wanted to goto Mediation. I stated that I was not willing to and had nothing to work out with him. This was due in part to the fact he constantely reverted the page, even when it was being discussed. In my opinion, he had been dishonest and I felt I could not trust anything he said.

Johnski promptly messaged me back and threatened me with arbitration and made the following to claims:

1) If I didn't accept Mediation it would work against me.

2) In Arbitration, no witnesses are allowed.

Dear David, Mediation is a better means of resolving this matter than artibtation. I'd prefer to work this out with you man to man, but since you are unwilling to try, the first approach according to what has been suggested to me by other Wikipedians, is mediation, but if you refuse to participate it is impossible for a mediator to help us. If we end up in arbitration, I think your unwillingness to accept mediation will work against you. There are no witnesses needed because the record speaks for itself. Have you read how Mediation works here? I suggest you read that before making your final decision for refusal to mediate our differences. Sincerely,Johnski 05:51, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Solkope Article

This article has some deep history in terms of editing. At one point, User:Isotope tried to forge a compromise with editors to get consensus for a version of an article with the DOM content. She and I came up with some wording and she (not I) posted it. KAJ reverted the article removing claims that dealt with the fraud by banks licensed by DOM. This went back and forth and the paragraph was eventually removed.

Johnski claims because a administrator edited an article, that she gave an endorsement to the pro-DOM statements.

Hello Samboy, Are you aware that an admin of Misplaced Pages see: http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Grutness kept the DOM content on Sept 2005 when he edited the article? Sincerely, Johnski 07:36, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I pointed out to him that she indeed edited the article, but made only a small change (I believe it was to fix a spelling error). He kept insisting that because Grutness left the DOM reference in, that it had consensus. I also told him he was misrepresenting what had occured and that the version he pushed lacked consensus. Davidpdx 16:17, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

Rebuttle to KAJ

It is interesting that KAJ states the only people that are not bias are those who are constantly reverting the article. Yet it is he, Johnski, SamuelSpade and Wiki-Facts that fail to follow the rules

None of the people he defends (including himself) read nor care about the rules of Misplaced Pages. They are here for one reason and that is to push a Pro-DOM agenda.

I also find it interesting that KAJ brings up the fact that a new user, User:Immigrationissues showed up recently. KAJ copied the talk page on to the evidence page to try to show that Gene Poole was somehow rude. KAJ's retoric about Gene Poole is exactly the same in terms of Johnksi's, which makes me really wonder if they are one person.

I also find it ironic that User:Immigrationissues shows up and his only edits have to do with, yes you guessed it DOM. Honestly I have to wonder if they think people are so completely stupid that we can't figure out what is going on.

What KAJ doesn't point out (and neither will Johnski) is that I attempted to work with Johnski and he reverted the page even as I tried to work with him in good faith. Johnski, SamuelSpade, KAJ and Wiki-Facts have repeatedly showed bad faith, yet they complain that no one will work with them. I wonder why?

In terms of the Solkope article, there was agreement among editors and then Johnski reverted the article several days later I reverted it back to the version that had consensus and KAJ and Johnski persisted. In the end, I removed the portion of the article because Johnski and KAJ would not follow the rules and stick with the version that had consensus. They instead would rather abuse the process.

KAJ claims I "misunderstand" the rules, which is only one of a number of vague accusations he makes in his statement. This is truly the pot calling the kettle black. Yet another accusation he makes without merit is the statement by Isotope "Davidpdx was clearly “unwilling to compromise in any way, and Isotope23 referred to working with Davidpdx as “Banging your head on a wall.” Yet again it was Johnski, KAJ and SamuelSpade that reverted the agreed upon version. He also fails to even reference the conversation that took place.

User:Wiki-Facts and Rriter are clearly sockpuppets. Wiki-Fact was active for only a few days and then disappeared. I believe he was a sockpuppet of either SamuelSpade or KAJ. Rriter was the same exact thing, he made a few edits and then disappeared. Anyone with half a brain has to wonder why users suddenly come in out of the blue, edit one subject and then disappear out of thin air. Of course KAJ and Johnski will try to con you into believing these are legitimate users, which is not the case.

Evidence presented by {KAJ}

Organizational effort to POV push

Because I also see a need for balance in the Dominion of Melchizedek article (DOM) Davidpdx automatically assumes the worst, without following Wiki guidelines to assume good faith.

Regarding so-called Wiki-facts, Davidpdx doesn’t point out that Gene Poole was almost as ferocious in his editing/reverting the night the article was protected by SlimVirgin. Davidpdx fails to mention that on October 27, 2005 Gene Poole changed or reverted the DOM article approx 14 times and showed no interest in valid changes of Wiki-facts but instead insisted on adding what could easily be considered inflammatory opinions, for example, that DOM was “invented“ and elsewhere, “concocted“.

“Reverting without Consensus, Inability to show good faith and discuss before reverting“

Davidpdx calls good faith editing,, vandalism. After Dejvid, pointed out to Davidpdx that he shouldn’t call good faith efforts vandalism, Davidpdx continued his vexing behavior.

Reverting without Consensus

Davidpdx brings the following to our attention:

November 10, 2005 User:KAJ (Mr. Davidpdx: Please show some effort in looking at my work, to see if there is anything you agree with with. Do you know how to compare articles to see the changes? Do some work on this or quit.)

However, Davidpdx shows no interest in trying to solve the problems. He can show no effort towards compromise, or consensus.

Claim of Ecclesastical State

Davidpdx informs us: “Yet another claim by Johnski and others who push a pro-DOM agenda is that DOM is a recognized Ecclesastical State. Before it was merged into Ecclesastical Government, Ecclesastical state was often reverted by Johnski and others who posted the claim that DOM was a recognized government. The only legitimate recognition, which is questionable at best, is given by the Central African Republic. The CAR has been noteworthing for having its own problems with fraud and in fact the government which gave the recognition to DOM has since fallen out of power.”

On November 16, EDM pointed out to Davidpdx that it doesn’t matter if governments have a change of power since the recognition of China wasn‘t automatically cancelled after Nixon disgracefully left office. This shows that Davidpdx has no interest in what others say, even ones that he doesn‘t feel are a part of an organizational push.. The fact is that the letter of “official and formal” diplomatic recognition from CAR as an “ecclesiastical sovereignty” should be enough to classify DOM as such, instead of a “Mcironation” but what Davidpdx doesn’t point out is that no one has insisted on that point for quite a while. Instead. compromise language, was used to the effect, “an entity aspiring to ecclesiastical statehood.” But nothing is acceptable to Davidpdx on the DOM article that comes from me or others he imagines are associated with me.

Misrepresenting the rules of Misplaced Pages

It seems clear that Davidpdx often misunderstands the Wiki policies.

Solkope Article

Davidpdx forgot to mention in his evidence that after Davidpdx, Solkipe23 and I worked hard for consensus on the Solkope article, (and I left the final version to Isotopes23’s best judgment) , Isotope23 commented to Johnski - “I understand what you are saying and let me make it clear that what I am basically doing here is washing my hands of the affair. If you are anyone else reverts to the wording they support, or adds in DOM references, I will not interfere. All I ask is that anyone editing leave the first two paragraphs alone (unless of course you have additional information about geographical and or Rotuman historical references). At least one person in this debate has shown that they are unwilling to compromise in any way, so it's pretty much impossible to reach a consensus. In the context of wikipedia, I have no way of forcing anyone to be reasonable. I basically got into this to try and broker some sort of middle ground, but this effort has been unsuccessful (and there is no indication that any effort to that effect would ever be successful). I've seen at least a couple of other wikipedia users who tried to get involved in the DoM partisan argument get totally burned out on wikipedia, so I'm walking away before I get to that point. Banging your head on a wall is no fun. Best of luck to all of you (on both sides) in your future edits.--Isotope23 13:29, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Davidpdx was clearly “unwilling to compromise in any way, and Isotope23 referred to working with Davidpdx as “Banging your head on a wall.” Why would Davidpdx put us through this process if he was unwilling to compromise in any way?

Davidpdx did however propose his version as this  : “Here is my suggestion in terms of the last paragraph of the Soklope article: The Dominion of Melchizedek, a micronation known for being directly linked to large scale banking fraud in many parts of the world, claims to have a lease granting them use of the Solkope Island for 99 years. The lease was obtained from Hiagi Apao, who claims to be the sole soverign owner of the island. Although at times there has been a movement advocating sucession away from Fiji, the island is still recognized as territory of Fiji.”

Isotope23 agreed that the Solkope article wasn’t the place to mentioned the fraudulent activities of banks licensed by DOM.

However, as recently as November 15, when attempting to use Davidpdx’s version, he reverted to a version that doesn’t include his suggested text on the pretext that his arbitration case would prohibit it. This is the version that he didn‘t want to be shown: “The Dominion of Melchizedek, a micronation known for the banks it licensed, being directly linked to large scale banking fraud in many parts of the world, claims to have a lease granting them use of the Solkope Island for 99 years. The lease was obtained from Hiagi Apao, who claims to be the sole sovereign owner of the island. Although at times there has been a movement advocating secession away from Fiji, the island is still recognized as territory of Fiji.”

Davidpdx also forgets to mentioned that he tried to get the entire Solkope article deleted, but failed, and it was kept with content about DOM.

What Davidpdx also doesn’t want to point out is that recently there are more than those that don’t what a biased version besides:

• User:Johnski,
• User:KAJ suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:SamuelSpade suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:Wiki-Facts suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• Rriter suspected sockpuppet of Johnski (see evidence)
• User:207.47.122.10 suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:202.162.66.158 suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:12.202.45.74 suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:67.124.49.20 suspectedd sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:63.164.145.198 suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:71.130.204.74 suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:66.245.247.37 suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:208.57.91.27 suspected sockpuppet of Johnski,
• User:68.123.207.17 suspected sockpuppet of Johnski.

The more recent ones are: EDM

FT2 11:40, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Apparently drawn in by the arbitration case, FT2 wrote, to Davidpdx: “That is, in Misplaced Pages terms, no excuse. In that case I'd expect to see a section that lists both sets of claims or information without judging them, even if it's just "view #1 says..." and "view #2 says..." A competent editor from either side should be able to neutrally add that, stating what each side sees, and/or criticisms about it. Could that be added? FT2 08:57, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Centauri a suspected sock-puppet of Gene Poole responded: “The problem is that "view 1" is the position taken by almost everyone in the world who is aware of "Melchizedek", while "view 2" is the position of 1 editor, unsupported by any evidence. --Centauri 09:05, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

How could Centauri possibly know what view “almost everyone in the world who is aware of Melchizedek” has on this subject. It is this type of comment that makes it impossible to work with Davidpdx’s small group.

Davidpdx tried to complete “As Centauri pointed out, one editor is making a stink about the article. This editor has multiple accounts, which is EXACTLY why they have an arbitration case against them. I realize I may not have explained the situation very well, but I would caution you to get all the facts before you jump on someone about what they may or may not have done. Davidpdx 11:11, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Then FT2 responds, “There's no jumping, and I'm aware of the arbitration case. It's how I found the article. So I sympathize all around. I am pointing out, neutrally, the obvious: such a paragraph can be written. That more people favor one view than the other doesn't change that I as a reader would genuinely like to learn about both views on the above question. Could someone - or two someones even - write the two different versions on the talk page if compromise can't be reached? Couldn't we say get a map showing where the (disputed or undisputed) territory is, even? Just for my own interest? Thanks :) FT2 02:40, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Then Gene Poole goes way off the deep end, “The point we are trying to get across is that 1 side is promoting a highly eccentric extreme minority opinion totally unsupported by facts or evidence. We do not give "equal time" to holocaust deniers vs most historians, or flat earthers vs round earthers simply because 2 groups of people disagree - in each case, one POV is generally and widely accepted and the other is not. We may mention the minority viewpoint, but we do not give it equal billing. This case is exactly the same. --Gene_poole 03:12, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Poole goes on to write, “The other point is, it has now been PROVEN that there are sockpuppets involved, which very much dents a certain person's creditablity. Although we don't know for sure which onces are or aren't, if you look at the arbitration case comments have been made that verify this point.”

Poole is obviously making stuff up here.

Davidpdx, follows up with, “As GP said, the view expressed is a small minority and as pointed out, the person is making uncredible claims. I can't understand why for the life of me, why someone would advocate posting things that aren't true on Misplaced Pages. It would seriously damage the creditablity of the site of we were allow to post anything without verifiable proof. Davidpdx 06:37, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Nevertheless, Davidpdx can’t substantiate his claims.

EDM stated recently: “Thinking about how to treat the Washington Post quote has occupied most of my commuting time for a couple of days now. I've gone back and forth between favoring deleting the bit altogether and including it verbatim without comment, for the reader to make a determination. For what it's worth, my conclusion is that the sentence is nothing more than a reporter's snarkiness and is unencyclopedic….. EDM 19:18, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

EDM had a much different opinion about this than Centauri, Poole or Davidpdx:

"My approach would be not to mention the Washington Post article at all in this section, as it is both a secondary source at best and for this purpose an opinionated one. I would therefore delete the entire first paragraph, and most of the second, in the "Recognition" section and instead say something like DoM asserts that it has bilateral diplomatic recognition with ..., listing the Central African Republic and the two or three other African countries mentioned on its website, with links to the two-page CAR document that I recall seeing somewhere here and to the "treaties of peace and recognition" that are reproduced here. Readers of the article can look at those treaties and form their own conclusion as to whether they establish diplomatic recognition. -EDM 01:44, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

It may or may not also bear mentioning that President Kolingba, who signed the letter on behalf of the Central African Republic (or on whose behalf it was signed) was voted out of office shortly thereafter and the new government later relieved him of his military rank and charged several of his ministers with "various crimes." See Misplaced Pages's description of the sequence of events. If I were writing the article, I probably wouldn't include that, since similar things happen all the time elsewhere and that doesn't necessarily affect the validity of diplomatic recognitions conferred by the discredited regime. (I'm thinking particularly of Nixon and China.) -EDM 02:05, 16 November 2005 (UTC):

copied by: KAJ 02:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Then we have the newest Immigrationissues expressing his opinion:

“I hope I am not infringing on any Misplaced Pages rules by writing here, however, should this be the case I sincerely apologize and ask that you accept this only in the light of my being new in Misplaced Pages. The article about Micronations is very interesting to me and I have researched the contents meticulously, however, I would like to just mention very important (in my opinion) fact, namely that the rhetoric/arguments serve very little purpose when measured against a casual users sincere and urgent search for verifiable information and FACTS. I do realize that everyone has an opinion and should strive to make his/her opinion the basis of their actions here and in general life. I urge the editor(s) of this specific entry to reach a consensus so as to allow that a casual user, such as myself, has a untainted and fair representation of FACTS to read in Misplaced Pages. I think that is what this site is about..Then again, it is also only my opinion. Immigrationissues2002 20:27, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi. There's no problem with continuing the discussion on this page. The facts concerning "Melchizedek" are very well known - basically, it's a "shell country" thinly veiled in a cloak of religious respectability, that is used by a group of criminals to commit fraud. The controversy here surrounds a group of 3 editors and their sockpuppets - who are probably members of that criminal gang - who have been trying to re-write the article by removing all the bad references and replacing them with positive ones. They are currently being dealt with via arbitration. --Centauri 01:05, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Immigration, I have read both your note here and on the help page regarding DOM. As one of the people that responded to your inquiry stated, you can not apply for political asyulum, because it is indeed not a country.

Yes, your correct there has been a long feud about this article. This has gotten to the point that it has been taken to arbitration, a formal process to show abuse by certain people. While I appreciate your comments, at this point it really is a wait and see deal. Davidpdx 01:23, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Hi Centauri. Thanks for the reply. Who are these criminals, what crimes are they doing and what is a sockpuppet ? Sorry for the many questions but if they are criminals, shouldn´t that be dealt with by the relevant authorities. I have spent the past few days specifically investigating the dominion, their website and officers and to be quite frank, I have found absolutely NOTHING to indicate that any official of the dominion has ever been convicted or even tried for any criminal activity related to the dominion. I have read that some individuals were convicted before, during and after the formation of the dominion, but not anyone officially acting on their behalf. I am trying to keep an open mind on the issue, but to me it sounds quite biassed to say the things that you have above. In my opinion you are making it sound as though the officials of the dominion are responsable for the actions of the owners of the banks and other businesses that have registered with them and have commited crimes...that would be like saying that President Bush is responsable for Enron...hardly a valid statement. Anyway, you probably have a reason for saying what you did, I would like to hear it, on here or to my private e-mail address.

Hi Davipdx. Thanks for your reply. I shall certainly look in here from time to time to see the outcome of this issue.

Immigrationissues 05:57, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I thank Immigrationissues for his enlightening comment. I am sure it will help the editors in any future decisions we need to make. Tom Harrison 14:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Immigrationissues is obviously yet another Johnski sockpuppet and/or meatpuppet, who has appeared out of nowhere to immediately begin posting insidious nonsense on this subject. --Gene_poole 22:01, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

GP, I agree you seriously have to wonder what is going on. Right now, I'm just ignoring it trying to focus on the arbitration which is more important at this point. Davidpdx 08:17, 2 December 2005 (UTC)

This is the conclusion of the DOM Talk page as of December 5, 2005. I hope it may be helpful for the Arbitrators to understand the need to find a solution to this case.