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Revision as of 21:30, 6 August 2009 editScheinwerfermann (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers10,205 edits Homosexuality: new section← Previous edit Revision as of 21:38, 6 August 2009 edit undoScheinwerfermann (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers10,205 editsm Homosexuality: MarkupNext edit →
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== Homosexuality == == Homosexuality ==


Hi, '''Haiduc'''. The new lead text in ] is being aggressively challenged by an editor who feels it is faulty. When you get a chance, could you swing by and ] and help build consensus? Thanks. —<span style="font:bold 11px Arial;display:inline;border:#151B8D 1px solid;background-color:#FFFF00;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">]</span> <sup>]</sup>&middot;<sub>]</sub><small>21:30, 6 August 2009 (UTC)</small> Hi, '''Haiduc'''. The new lead text in ] is being aggressively challenged by an editor who feels it is faulty. When you get a chance, could you swing by ] and ] and help build consensus? Thanks. —<span style="font:bold 11px Arial;display:inline;border:#151B8D 1px solid;background-color:#FFFF00;padding:0 4px 0 4px;">]</span> <sup>]</sup>&middot;<sub>]</sub><small>21:30, 6 August 2009 (UTC)</small>

Revision as of 21:38, 6 August 2009

I will be curtailing my work here for the foreseeable future as I will be on sabbatical for the remainder of the school year and have a couple of monographs to attend to. I will nonetheless keep an eye on things and flag abusive editing when I see it. Haiduc (talk) 01:24, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


Other user pages:

Wandervogel

Hello Haiduc, if you have the time. You uploaded the picture File:Wandervogel greif.gif in 2006. Can you tell me why it is in the public domain? Its creator only died in 1964. I'm asking this because in Der Zupfgeigenhansl, that I'm sure you know, there are many nice silhouettes by Hermann Pfeiffer that I would like to put on Commons. Glatisant 00:37, 17 January 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Glatisant (talkcontribs)

Paidika?

Surely this does not have to be RS to be included in a "further reading" section? I gather that Jack tries this kind of thing on repeatedly.

WP:FURTHER 81.105.56.240 (talk) 22:49, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

I am not up to arguing with Jack or anyone over every detail. Fact is, Paidika is not a significant source, and many of the useful articles are by scholars who have also been published elsewhere, so they can be cited without any reservations. I am not sure anything important is being lost. Have I missed something? --Haiduc (talk) 00:11, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Sockpuppet investigations

If you have direct evidence (such as two different accounts making identical edits, or other obvious things) then you can present the evidence to any admin (myself included) and I can block them under the duck test. However, I don't myself see a direct connection for this user to our favorite pederast vandal. What you can do is file a report at WP:SPI and a checkuser will possibly look into it. This is a new process, which has merged two prior processes (Suspected Sockpuppet Reports and Requests for Checkuser). Just start a new report for DavidYork71, and reference his report under the old system, which is Misplaced Pages:Requests for checkuser/Case/DavidYork71 (take care. Its huge and may crash your browser. No joke!). If you need help with this, let me know. --Jayron32.talk.contribs 21:23, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Homosexuality

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. We welcome and appreciate your contributions, but we cannot accept original research. Original research also encompasses novel, unpublished syntheses of previously published material. Please be prepared to cite a reliable source for all of your information. Thank you.

Can you explain how your addition "The prevalence of male homosexuality has varied over time and across societies for cultural reasons" is supported by the source "Adolescence and puberty By John Bancroft, June Machover Reinisch, p.162"? Here's the whole page:


preindustrial and underdeveloped societies, subject to exploitative obligations

in the form of rent, taxes, tribute, forced labor service" (Harris, 1974, p. 665). In peasant societies, kinship groups serve as conservators of their resources in order to maintain position against competing groups and more powerful classes. Access to land is through familial inheritance, and it becomes important that title to the land be undisputed or dispossession can occur. This has strong implications for gender roles and sexuality, particularly for women.

Sexual Permissiveness in Preindustrial Cultures

Several researchers have used the Human Relations Area Files (HRAF), a detailed compilation of historical and ethnographic materials, to draw conclusions about the frequency of premarital sexual behavior as well as factors that influence or indicate permissiveness versus restrictiveness in postpubescent sexual behavior. Broude and Green (1980) used the 186 cultures in the Basic Standardized Sample of the HRAF (Murdock & White, 1980) to detail the percentage of cultures in which certain sexual acts are permissible. Reducing the sample to 141 cultures for which data on premarital sex were available, in 21% of the sample, premarital sex was rated as expected and approved. Of the total, 75% viewed premarital sex for females as not a particularly serious issue, whereas 25% of the totals sampled regarded premarital sex with strong disapproval and sanctions. Of the 114 cultures for which data on frequency of sexual activity were available, in 49% of that sample it was reported that the frequency of female premarital sex was common, whereas in 20% it was thought to occur rarely or never. Of 107 ethnographies, 60% reported that male premarital sexual activity was universal and that in only 12% of the sample was it uncommon or rare. Of 34 cultures in which initiation of premarital sexuality was discussed, 35% indicated that males were the initiators of premarital sex and in 18% of the sample, females initiated sex. Homosexuality was also surveyed, although this behavior was not reported exclusively for adolescents. Strong disapproval of homosexuality was reported for 41% of 42 cultures; it was accepted or ignored by 21%, and 12% reported no such concept. Of 70 ethnographies, 59% reported homosexuality absent or rare in frequency and 41% reported it present or not uncommon. Adolescence, however brief, is also a time in which individuals with atypical gender roles or homosexual preferences are noted and sometimes accommodated by the culture. Cases of transvestic homosexuality occur frequently in the anthropological literature (see Carrier, 1980). Whitam (1983) has argued that exclusive homosexual behavior appears as a constant and significant subpattern of sexuality across cultures.

This is about the expression of homosexuality. This expression will vary today too (eg: difference between Iran and Canada). This is not necessarily about who is gay or not, its about who shows it.

The sentence you added into "The prevalence of male homosexuality may vary over time and across societies in part because of variations in fertility rate or family size and the fraternal birth order effect." is something completely different. Phoenix of9 (talk) 12:15, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Answered at my page. Phoenix of9 (talk) 13:17, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Wording

Hi Hai. I'm not sure why you're making this reversion . The wording I'm trying to use seems much clearer. Also, your edit summary says "one sided", but I'm not really sure what you mean. What sides are you referring to? ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:53, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

re Salai

Do you think you could source and upload a better quality image? That one is terribly grainy as it has been blown up from a very small pic. I'm really pissed off about it. The ramifications of it being a 1475 image are considerable, from the point of view of art history. And the identification of it as Saltarelli has considerable ramifications in terms of the man's biography.

Amandajm (talk) 14:03, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

OK. It's semi-fixed. Amandajm (talk) 14:24, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Douglass

This removal is of text that directly mentions Crompton in reference to Crompton's discussion of Byron's homosexual/homoerotic relationships, including Giraud. The removal is inappropriate as such. I would ask you to reinsert it, as Douglass is a reputable source on the history of Byron biographies and biographers. Ottava Rima (talk) 00:58, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I have put the removed quote with a more substantial quote from the original source here. According to the guidelines, cited information like this cannot be removed in such a way. If it is not restored in a few hours I will do it myself. Any further reversion will be linked to on the appropriate noticeboard. Ottava Rima (talk) 01:14, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I've been working with Malleus on the GAN review for Giraud. I changed some things in the lead and emphasized others. Where I cut a little down emphasizing what you may favor, I promoted more about Giraud being used as an early image for homosexual rights in England, so I hope that it balances out. I'm trying to make it more readable, and not promote any viewpoint. I hope you can see it that way and not that I am trying to silence you. Ottava Rima (talk) 00:37, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

You should be happy to know that the article is now GA level. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:56, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

Happy Haiduc's Day!

User:Haiduc has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian,
and therefore, I've officially declared today as Haiduc's day!
For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian,
enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Haiduc!

Peace,
Rlevse
~

A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it. — RlevseTalk01:03, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Likewise, me too. — RlevseTalk02:51, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Pederastic couples in Japan

You let me a message on my portuguese page, but I could not understand. Did you mean for me to check that version? I saw some things that are not on the current version. I wonder if they are worth to be cited. It should have some reason for those information have been undone. Mizunoryu 大熊猫❤小熊猫 (talk) 12:44, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Greek Love

Greetings Haiduc! There is a message for you here: Talk:Greek love#Committee for keeping Greek Love. Thanks. Esseinrebusinanetamenfatearenecessest (talk) 04:59, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I've removed that trolling "message" which is from this user that !voted to delete the related article. If you need, you can view it in the edit history but it's nonconstructive and quite uncivil. - ALLSTR wuz here @ 05:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Can you cast your eye over the History section just expanded by an anonymous author? --Dominique (talk) 14:18, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

WikiProject LGBT studies Newsletter (June 2009)

The Miss Julie Memorial LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter:

Special Pride 2009 Booty call edition

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter!
Issue XVIII: June 24, 2009

Yo, happy Pride y'all - are you ready for your close-up?

Stonewall riots
How do you change the world? You can start by writing an incredible article for the world's encyclopedia. Moni3 kicks it old school again with Stonewall riots - a series of spontaneous, violent demonstrations against a police raid that took place in the early morning hours of June 28, 1969 at the Stonewall Inn. hey have become the defining event that marked the start of the gay rights movement in the United States and around the world. It's a featured article hitting the mainpage this Sunday to mark the 40th anniversary of the events. So first off, wow! Clever and cool. Moni3 has been recently named hottest delegate to Obama's bookclub but that may not be official yet. (Shhh!)

Otto4711 mentioned that gee we really should swamp the DYK section with LGBT-related articles for use on the 28th as well. We have eight or so in the holding area and if you push yourself to get an article together you might be able to get in on the fun. Do this now!

The official rules for DYKs can be found here. Once you have expanded an article 5-fold or created an article with at least 1,500 characters of prose, place your DYK thread here. Use this handy tool to count your 1,500 characters. As a suggestion, when you add your potential hook, include the character count and a link to the source(s) that confirm the hook. These will be confirmed anyway but may help.

Trans quotes needed for Portal:Transgender

The layout for the individual quotes is here (just copy/paste into one of the red links on Portal:Transgender/Random quote). Then this counter has to be upped to match the new # of total quotes (not counting quote zero).

Obama proclamation

On June 1, President Barack Obama declared June 2009 Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month, citing the riots as a reason to "commit to achieving equal justice under law for LGBT Americans". Excerpts at the bottom.

F*ck me I'm famous

I was interviewed by Misplaced Pages Signpost, the weekly in-house newsletter, for the WikiProject report. The Signpost has nearly 1,000 Wikipedian subscribers and arguably many of those folks actually read it. It came about rather quickly and my worst fears - that it was an elaborate hoax by a troll - were apparently unfounded. I hope y'all feel I did fine by the project, I did my best to avoid the phrase "man-humping, cock-sucking, doggy-style loving queer" but otherwise did ok.

Free image appeal

A friendly reminder to consider taking photos while you're out and about at various Dyke marches and Pride parades. Consider donating them to the world at Wikicommons. I'm sooo totally over having to deal with lovely images being deleted and argued about. If they are just free they are then also freely usable worldwide. And no, they don't need photos of your cha-cha or hoo-hoo-dilly.

Chaz Bono

Sonny and Cher's daughter was a famous lesbian and now he's a famous transman, possibly the most famous in the world. This also serves as a friendly reminder that we recently updated Misplaced Pages:WikiProject LGBT studies/Guidelines - it's not perfect but should help inform on those gnip-gnop battles that do seem to drag on, and not in the good way.

R U Popular?

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject LGBT studies/Popular pages is a new handy place to see which LGBT-tagged pages are the most popular in any given month.

Article alerts

As part of the redecorating at our talkpage, the article alerts and keyword search alerts are handily located at the top of the page. Always fascinating to see what's up. All help appreciated on those.

Glambert

Adam Lambert is soooo gay - surprised? Neither is anyone else. Nuff said. David Ogden Stiers was outed but apparently he wasn't terribly in either.

Community Quilt reminder

Misplaced Pages:WikiProject LGBT studies/Quilt - update it and add yourself!

Our own little IRC home

The LGBT studies project does have its own free Internet Relay Chat channel, #wikipedia-en-lgbt , for coordination, collaboration and socializing. This channel is hosted on Freenode and can be accessed in one of two ways: If you already have an IRC client, click the link to the left. If you do not have an IRC client, you'll need to get one installed on your computer first. Once you've done this, then click on the link to the left.

For more general information on IRC and a listing of other useful Misplaced Pages-related channels, see Misplaced Pages:IRC channels.

The project had at one point another channel at #LGBTproject but as the original people associated with the setting up and administration of that channel have seemed to have disappeared, this new channel has been set up. Plus the new channel is inline with required naming conventions for Misplaced Pages related IRC channels. So, feel free to use this channel. Such a channel gives opportunity to discuss the latest happening on articles, the LGBT project itself, latest happening in your life with "wiki-friends" here, etc.. You can say things on there you normally wouldn't here on Misplaced Pages (keeping it civil of course) like talk about the latest hot guy/girl or tell a joke.. you get the point. Anyway, see you there - eventually!

LGBT to-do list (held over from last edition)
  • Give out more barnstars, and let each other know that what they're doing is valued.
  • Create a guide to stave off burnout, because editors in this project get burned out faster than others. There are many hills to climb.
  • Bring back the monthly collaboration project.
  • Participate in LGBT Peer reviews.
  • Get familiar with the characteristics of Good Articles and get our top priority articles to WP:GA.
  • Keep our project page and open tasks template updated.
  • Use the Newsletter, Moni3! You can suggest what to send out in the newsletter, too!
  • Offer research materials, copy editing, ideas, and support to your fellow editors.
  • Keep the project talk page informed of problems and discussions we should know about.


There are many well-respected LGBT leaders in all professional fields, including the arts and business communities. n both the White House and the Federal agencies -- openly LGBT employees are doing their jobs with distinction and professionalism.
LGBT youth should feel safe to learn without the fear of harassment, and LGBT families and seniors should be allowed to live their lives with dignity and respect.
At the international level, I have joined efforts at the United Nations to decriminalize homosexuality around the world. Here at home, I continue to support measures to bring the full spectrum of equal rights to LGBT Americans. These measures include enhancing hate crimes laws, supporting civil unions and Federal rights for LGBT couples, outlawing discrimination in the workplace, ensuring adoption rights, and ending the existing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy in a way that strengthens our Armed Forces and our national security.
As long as the promise of equality for all remains unfulfilled, all Americans are affected. If we can work together to advance the principles upon which our Nation was founded, every American will benefit. During LGBT Pride Month, I call upon the LGBT community, the Congress, and the American people to work together to promote equal rights for all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity.
I call upon the people of the United States to turn back discrimination and prejudice everywhere it exists. - Barack Obama, Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Pride Month, 2009, The White House (June 1, 2009).

Click your heels three times ladies and gents, home is where hot is! -- Banjeboi

To receive this newsletter in a different format, please let us know here.
If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Moni3 know.

use English

I noticed that you have posted comments to the page Talk:Herodotus in a language other than English. When on the English-language Misplaced Pages, please always use English, no matter to whom you address your comments. This is so that comments may be comprehensible to the community at large. If the use of another language is unavoidable, please provide a translation of the comments. For more details, see Misplaced Pages:Talk page guidelines. Thank you. Alcmaeonid (talk) 13:18, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Image you uploaded

Hi. You uploaded File:Jesus johannes.jpg here in 2005 saying it came from German Misplaced Pages. It is now up for deletion on Commons at Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Jesus johannes.jpg because the source and details are unknown. Do you know where on German Misplaced Pages you found it? Other details? Can you comment at the Commons deletion discussion? Thank you. Wknight94 15:28, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Relationships

Please don't be so quick to accuse especially when there is no evidence backing your accusation. If you look pederasty is completely covered under same-sex relationships. I see what you mean about heterosexual relationships but the fault with that thinking is you are assuming boyfriend, monogamy and all the others are heterosexual when they can be either homosexual or heterosexual and some of them bisexual. If you think about it that way you can even say there is more homosexual representation than heterosexual representation because none of the terms are only heterosexual. If I was political pushing then I would put in heterosexual relationships or take out same-sex relationships. You need to avoid accusing people of homophobia like that unless its clearly true. All that does is cause a lot of fighting and no constructiveness. --TheDecanome (talk) 19:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Erotes

Hi. I created an article on the classical mythological Erotes, mostly to avoid a mis-direct to the Lucian play. This would seem to be within your sphere of interest. I have some sources to expand on it, but i am concentrating on all the non-classical mythology at the moment (as there are so many books on Greek love, but little on other mythologies.) I was thinking this might make a good DYK (on Erotes, greek myth, homoeroticism/pederaty), if we can build it up in 5 days. Do you have sources to help with this? And are you interested? I sketched a plan on talk there. Thanks!YobMod 15:15, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Picture

Yes, I would mind.

It is quite sufficient to link from talk to an old version of the page, if people want to see what you are proposing. Jheald (talk) 12:55, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


Request for Resolution

I'm getting pretty sick of the constant edit reverting on the main Herodotus article. It's fairly obvious that you disagree with each others stance and are unlikely to ever find common ground. That said, I am going to ask that you try and come to some workable conclusion on the talk page without editing and reverting the main article. If this is impossible, I think I'm going to ask an admin to come in and sort this out. I've posted this on your talk pages too, just in case your not watching this page. Fol de rol troll (talk) 12:56, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Most of the other editors that I've seen commenting have in fact disagreed with the way that you have reported the information. Other than Alcmaeonid; Yobmod specifically disagrees with the way it was presented, Akhilleus seems to have slight support for the information, but with qualification of the sources, MinisterForBadTimes disagrees with the information and it's presentation, Shell supports Alcmaeonid explicitly. Only Septentrionalis supports your assertions. Personally, I think that if it were put into the article that Ptolemy Chennos has said this, but that he is the only source we have who says this and is thought by other historians to be unreliable, then this would satisfy all editors, but would be a virtually redundant addition. If this were a biography of a living person, we certainly wouldn't include this. I tend to use that idea as a basis on whether to include rumoured or supposed information in any biography article. I understand that you appear to have a high interest in Greek history, homosexuality and pederasty (deduced from comments on your talk page), I suggest that you might be pushing your own interest a little here. Consensus on the comments on the talk page is tending towards disinclusion of the information, might I suggest that you bow to consensus on this occasion? Fol de rol troll (talk) 13:18, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
See my comments on the articles talk page re: edits supporting your changes. Your assertions are not true. I have no agenda with regard to homosexuality, pederasty or any sexual choice. I believe in freedom for all people to do what they wish where it harms no non-consenting people. Your comment on my talk page seems designed to raise my ire. I'm not going to bite, I'll keep my personal opinions to myself. If you have anything to say with regard to talk page consensus, I'd be delighted to hear it, I note that you haven't commented on that. Suppresion of information is to be frowned upon, suppresion of information that is reasonably labelled as lies isn't. Fol de rol troll (talk) 13:49, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

template

As advice, consider listing all the articles that should be on a template and how they should be organized. Then look for other simply templates that may serve as a guide. I can help in a few days if you don't already get it done. -- Banjeboi 01:48, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Template:Phineas and Ferb is a basic template, with brash colouring, that may give you ideas on how subdividing can work. The colours can be tweaked of course. Ping me on my talkpage when you want some assist. -- Banjeboi 02:43, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
Sorry - I didn't see this. I knocked up a navbox template yesterday, not sure it requires something as substantial as the above. Feel free to modify it as per your needs. I don't know fortran either, it doesn't involve any programming skill - just a bit of scripting/html awareness. Mish (talk) 19:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Categories: Historical sources on Alexander the Great

Hi ,would you comment on the Categories for discussion ? thanks a lot Catalographer (talk) 12:29, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Nicolo Giraud

Do you feel that this page should be submitted to FAC? If you do, feel free. I only request that I am a co-nominator, and that we try to work together to meet the needs of the reviewers. If a question comes up in which you feel that it might cause not the language but the ideas of the page to be changed in an unfair manner, please mention that the ideas are there based on extensive consensus based compromise. I am sure that most reviews will be based on grammar and MoS problems. Is this acceptable? Ottava Rima (talk) 20:16, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I just wanted to allow you to have a central say so you do not feel as if people would be ganging up against you. The language is a delicate compromise and some people wont realize it. I would still want you as a co-nom. Plus, FAC is rather easy. You list a page, it sits there. Occasional reviews drop by. Sometimes serious, sometimes not, and then if you can fix things you try to accommodate. Ottava Rima (talk) 00:58, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Homosexuality

Hi, Haiduc. The new lead text in Homosexuality is being aggressively challenged by an editor who feels it is faulty. When you get a chance, could you swing by here and here and help build consensus? Thanks. —Scheinwerfermann ·C21:30, 6 August 2009 (UTC)