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Revision as of 18:13, 28 August 2009

Blocked directly for two weeks

I have blocked your account from editing for a period of two weeks for abusive sockpuppetry. CheckUser evidence shows that CallMeNow (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), Big Toxic Personality (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), and VividMe (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) are all being operated by the owner of this account.

I have emailed the ArbCom mailing list with the technical data relating to this case.

If you wish to contest this block, you may do so by placing {{unblock|reason}} below this notice. J.delanoy_adds 03:17, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree with J.delanoy's CU findings. In addition, the SPAs all seem to be targeting Bishonen, who I know Mattisse has some issues with, based on previous encounters at FAR, AN/I, and other drama huts. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 03:24, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I also agree with J.delanoy's & Nishkid64's CU findings. --Versageek 03:30, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Fine. I have no "issues" with Bishon. However, I get the strong hint and will leave Misplaced Pages. You make your choices about who to favor and who to kick away. I am gone. I see you favor certain editors at the expense of trashing others. I am willing to leave Misplaced Pages. It is an ugly place ruled by cabals. —mattisse (Talk) 03:34, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Mattisse, I am saddened that you are unwilling to let go of personal issues and carry on with your productive article work. However, I implore you to return to Misplaced Pages after this block and focus solely on what you do well: improve articles. Dabomb87 (talk) 03:42, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

You are mistaken. I have no issues as you assume. If my contributions are not good enough, I am willing to leave. It is time to stop trying to contribute to Misplaced Pages when this is my reward. —mattisse (Talk) 03:48, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I sign off on the above block, not that it matters. Prodego 03:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Bishon says that I am not an enemy. So the petty accusations are enough to rid Misplaced Pages of me. That tells me louder than anything that I was a fool to work for this project. Thank you for letting me know so loud and clear. —mattisse (Talk) 11:20, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

What were the edits of CallMeNow that were worth a two week block? They are deleted so I cannot tell. What were the "abusive" edits by the other account. I do not see any in the conbributions of that account. Others are allowed to have undisclosed sockpuppets. So, even if these were mine, what is the harm? It took Arbcom a month to desyp Geogre for a two year sockpuppet spree of abusive sockpuppeting and he was never blocked that I recall. Favouritism at it's worse on Misplaced Pages. There is a cabal for real, protecting the elite. —mattisse (Talk) 11:33, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

A few comments:

• It was bloody stupid impolitic of Mattisse to get involved in something like this - note my use of "impolitic".
• However the block was grossly disproportionate, considering the way we mollycoddle defacers of articles.
• There is obviously gross inequality before the law of WP. Geogre used undisclosed socks for 2 years to stack discussions, but was only de-sysopped. Bishonen does not seem to exploit socks in such a systematic way, and half the time it likes look she's satirising socks - but it's bad a precedent and should be discouraged (disclosure: after recent discussions about Geogre and Bishonen, I'd advocation forbidding the use of socks unless a dispensation is gained in advance). Mattisse uses 3 socks for a handful of days and gets a 2 week block.

I think those who support the block should explain why there was no prior warning and why the block was so severe. --Philcha (talk) 13:47, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• What Mattisse appears to have done was "impolitic" at best, and I'd go so far as to say bloody stupid. But I don't see anything in the contributions of CallMeNow to warrant such a severe punishment, without warning. As Philcha says above, it really does confirm what many already know; favoured sons like Geogre—and many others—routinely get away with behaviours that would get a less popular editor blocked. Corrupt doesn't even get close to describing the chaotic governance of this place. --Malleus Fatuorum 13:59, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• I too would be interested in knowing why there were no prior warning and why the block was for as long as it is. John Carter (talk) 14:05, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• From what I can see, while the sockpuppetry is juvenile in character, it is barely abusive. A couple of childish comments from one account, a second account not used abusively, and a third unused account hardly call for a drastic block unless there is a prior pattern/history of abusive sockpuppetry. I suggest rescinding the block and warning the user instead. --RegentsPark (sticks and stones) 14:09, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Mattisse has been here for 3 years. We're supposed to just give her a slap on the wrist for sockpuppetry now? I don't think the user should be unblocked, but perhaps the block could be reduced to 31 hours or something along those lines. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 14:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Furthermore, this looks to me like a clear case of WP:GHBH, which by definition is a violation of our sockpuppetry policy. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 14:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• I don't see any evidence of WP:GHBH, and neither do I believe that sockpuppets—whether disclosed or not—is necessarily a blocking offence. Many do so without being blocked, and have done so over extended periods of time. Even some ArbCom members. The length of this block seems disproportionate to the crime. --Malleus Fatuorum 14:47, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• "All users are proscribed from operating a "bad hand" account for the purpose of disruption or artificially stirring up controversy. It is never acceptable to keep one account "clean", while using another account to engage in disruptive behavior." In my opinion, this and this are disruptive. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 14:52, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• The sockpuppetry and subsequent lame denials of such completely surprised me not in its stupidity and pettiness, but its direction at Bishonen of whom I have very little knowledge and negligible interaction. I have little opinion on the protocol for blocking sockpuppets, but I have quite strong opinions that this is but another example of a pattern of disruption of the sort the ArbCom case was opened on Mattisse in the first place. Mattisse has scores to settle, and it does not seem to matter what article improvement processes or Misplaced Pages policies are in place, because by God, she is out to settle them all. If Mattisse's mentors-turned-defenders impress the blocking admins enough to reduce or void the block, I'm fairly going to insist the ArbCom case be re-opened, even if I must do it myself. Mattisse's mentors need to start addressing this problematic behavior at once and not in private. She is her own worst enemy, self-defeating and projecting blame in all directions. Misplaced Pages is not for everyone. If Mattisse cannot let other editors alone, let her retirement stand, work with her earnestly to change her behavior, or block her for the 60-day period suggested by NewYorkBrad. --Moni3 (talk) 14:26, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
  • Just to be clear, I am in no way defending what Mattisse has done. As I said, I think it was bloody stupid, and I was rather shocked at its pointless childishness. My only concern is that all editors are treated equally in such cases. --Malleus Fatuorum 14:29, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Perhaps those posting against this block have forgotten (or never read or never understood) that checkuser evidence shows this to be a long-standing trend, not a new editing behavior for Mattisse ? To use socks while under ArbCom sanction, when she has been CU verified as socking before, and against an editor with whom she has been in prior conflict surely warrants the two weeks. More importantly, IMO ArbCom missed the boat in its first ruling by not recognizing that a short break (as suggested by NYB, which he did *not* call a block) is something that could be very good for Mattisse. Mattisse, I urge you to take the time off, re-think your priorities, and enjoy the break. I've always found that it takes more than a few days away from Wiki to be able to come back refreshed and renewed, and I hope you'll take that chance. It could change your perspective. Philcha, once again, you are doing Mattisse no favors by defending this behavior; she looks to you for guidance, and you continually turn a blind eye to the ongoing behaviors that lead to Mattisse's problems. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

To Nishkid64 Please provide proof of your charges

You say you "agree with J.delanoy's CU findings. In addition, the SPAs all seem to be targeting Bishonen, who I know Mattisse has some issues with, based on previous encounters at FAR, AN/I, and other drama huts." Please show me where I have had any dealings with Bishonen at all. Even Bshon says I have not http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Bishonen&curid=14915080&diff=310516630&oldid=310504781

Please provide proof of your charges. —mattisse (Talk) 12:07, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

From Bishonen's page (copied)

Little friends should always be protected. ;) The silent one 03:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Confirmed.— Dædαlus 07:12, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

O'Hai, little Brass! To think I never guessed that one. But then I merely thought in terms of somebody I was in conflict with, and I have no conflict with that user. Check out the link, Giacomo—I guess you're the one with the conflict. Thanks, Daedalus. Bishonen | talk 09:41, 28 August 2009 (UTC).

DYK for AltaRock Energy

On August 28, 2009, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article AltaRock Energy, which you created or substantially expanded. You are welcome to check how many hits your article got while on the front page (here's how) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

≈ Chamal  ¤ 05:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I want to know why others can have playful sockpuppets and I cannot - I was just doing what Bishonen does all the time - use sockpuppets in a "playful" manner. - I was making a joke about Bishonen's socks & get blocked for doing it

I though I was just doing what Geogre and Bishonem do all the time - use sockpuppets in a "playful" manner. I was making a joke about Bishonen's sock with a tiny little sock. But I am not in the "in" crowd at Misplaced Pages. —mattisse (Talk) 14:33, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

The best that can be said about your sockpuppets is that you displayed rather poor judgement in setting them up in the present climate. What on Earth were you thinking of? --Malleus Fatuorum 14:43, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I too tend to agree that some of the names, which while not as obvious as "Bishzilla", were ones which many people would have fairly quickly recognized, and would have been fairly easily obvious to most people, particularly those directly involved. I'm not sure that the specific actions were appropriate, like adding the links on the top of someone's talk page to what are said to be alternate accounts, but at the same time I have very real trouble seeing how they were really worthy of any sort of block. This belief is, yes, at least in part based on the fact that Geogre, who admitted to using a multiple account for some time, wasn't blocked for it. Blocking or closing the alternate accounts to me seems reasonable, but I don't think that a two week block on the primary is necessarily called for in this instance, based on the information visible to me. John Carter (talk) 14:47, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• I thought it was a joke. I don't know what the rules are. User:Bishonen can have User:Little Toxic Personality so I had User:Big Toxic Personality. User:Bishonen has User:Toxic Avenger so I had User:CallMeNow to make a point about socks. I find the using of socks offensive, I wanted to make that point. But I am not allowed to do what others regularly do. There are specially harsh rules for me that do not apply to others. That is what I am thinking of. —mattisse (Talk) 15:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

That really is the issue, you made your point in a disruptive fashion. What sort of logic makes it okay to use a sock puppet to discourage sock puppetry? Think about it, any point you may have had, regardless of validity, is discredited by the hypocrisy of your methods. Chillum 15:11, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Chillum, you posted hostile comments at User talk:CallMeNow after User:CallMeNow was blocked from editing User talk:CallMeNow. You may not have realised User:CallMeNow was blocked from User talk:CallMeNow, but your actions could be interpreted as cowardly. If you want anyone to pay attention to your opinions and for the sake of your own reputation, I suggest you retract those remarks. --Philcha (talk) 15:55, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I will gladly discuss this matter with you on my talk page Philcha. Chillum 16:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I am thinking about it. Ohers do the same thing, make disruptive points with their sockpuppets, I thought that was the "playful" way to do it. That is the way it is regarded when others do it. I made a few quite harmless edits to make a point, as I have watched all the sockpuppeting go on and condoned. I have made my dislike of sockpuppets known and really do not understand why they are allowed for the elite editors. How is anyone able to understand the rules around here? How was I to know I would be treated differently? Was what I did worse that Geogre. Yet he was treated better. Never blocked at all. Because Geogre was even allowed to keep his alternate account. It was unblocked so he could, even though he had used it abusively. That is why I am confused. Was I more disruptive than Geogre or the many others who do it while admins look the other way? Why not look the other way for me too? I don't get it. I really do not. I made a few harmless edits that I will now accept as poor judgment, but at the time they merely seemed like the sockpuppeting edits I see all the time by others. —mattisse (Talk) 15:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

"He's done it as well, so why pick on me" is probably just about the worst defence you could mount Mattisse. You do not occupy the moral high ground by aping the behaviours that you claim to be protesting against. --Malleus Fatuorum 15:34, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Mattisse, of course people have reasons and explanations for doing things. When we lash out in frustration at something, it appears to us at the time that we have a valid reason for doing it. Later, when people point out that we were wrong, we learn not to do it again. By creating the CallMeNow account and saying this, you were misbehaving. It was an inappropriate thing to do, and in doing that you have created drama, been offensive to another user, let yourself and others down (I feel somewhat embarrassed that I have defended and still defend you when you do things like that), and you have distracted from our main purpose and what you are so good at, and that is building the encyclopedia. What I'd like to see you do now is stop making excuses for your action - take responsibility, realise you did an inappropriate thing, apologize for what you have done and reassure us you won't do it again. SilkTork * 15:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Agreed on all points. John Carter (talk) 15:54, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry I let you down

• I am very sorry I let you and others down. I was not lashing out in frustration, however. That was not my emotion. Really, I thought of it as a playful trick. I understand that others do not see it that way. I had no reason to "lash out in frustration". Maybe "lashing out" in discouragement. I have never had interactions with Bishonen. I have been watching all the sockpuppeting and wanted to make a point. I really did not think it was a serious act that would bring about this type of punishment. I also though warnings had to precede blocks. The fact that I have let you down means I should not be editing at Misplaced Pages. I have been trying very hard and I have failed. I am very sorry for that. I failed, not because I was "lashing out" but because I really do not understand the rules. The community did not follow my ArbCom plan so it was hopeless anyway. I thought the plan was supportive and would help me understand these finer points that I do not seem to get, but in the end I was not protected from arbitrary punishment. So I am gone from Misplaced Pages. I can hever hold my head up here again after this. I do have some pride and I have tried to do a good job and further the encyclopedia. But I have failed. To be honest, I am not capable of doing much better than I was doing. I will always make mistakes. If my plan did not work, if I am blocked for two weeks over what I did, then I am unfit to be here and cannot continue. —mattisse (Talk) 16:39, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Another course of action would be to wait out the two weeks, and perhaps wait a bit longer if you think it prudent, and then come back and resume your good work here. You are not perfect, and the system is not perfect either. It is a fact that some people on Misplaced Pages do indeed get special treatment, and while I don't agree with your methods, or for that matter your targets, I do agree that there is some validity to the claim of a double standard. I would very much like it if you asked me to replace the {{retired}} tag on your user page with a {{wikibreak}} tag. Chillum 16:49, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I think that Chillum is probably offering good advice. Although I believe that the punishment is excessive for the crime, it's apparent that a significant body of others do not, and that if the block length is reduced then the ArbCom case is quite likely to be reopened, which would certainly not have a good outcome for you Mattisse. Some of us have to be more careful in what we do than others, who are given more leeway; just the way it is. I can't change that, you can't change that. --Malleus Fatuorum 17:00, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

No. Why I remained after the ArbCom was that ArbCom realized that I had been treated unfairly, that it was a two-way street and it was not my behavior that was entirely at fault but others also. They said I had been baited. They noted in their decision that even during the ArbCom, certain editors continued to "snipe" at me. They were trying to protect me from this type of arbitrary punishment and heckling I was receiving before by providing me with mentor/advisers in my plan User:Mattisse/Plan. The fact that ArbCom and the plan could not protect me means it is hopeless. But thank you for your thoughts. —mattisse (Talk) 17:08, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm afraid that your persistent misrepresentation of the events at and surroundoing that ArbCom case are at the root of your ongoing problems. No rational person would come to the conclusions that you have about what ArbCom recognised, or that they were in any way trying to protect you from anything. I'm very much afraid that until you hold your hand up and admit that you have been at least as much at fault as those you believe have been "sniping" at you—with no "ifs", "buts", or "it wasn't really my fault, I was provoked"s—the situation is hopeless, and you will end up being banned. --Malleus Fatuorum 17:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

It wasn't that the plan did not "protect" you, it was that you acted in ways which are, generally, not found acceptable. Bishonen, particularly with Bishzilla and its alleged spawn, is more or less a known quantity, particularly with Bishzilla's clearly over-the-top way of speaking style. Whether the actions of those particularly accounts in question were appropriate is a separate matter, and it really isn't anyone's place to respond to them personally, and particularly not to try to make any sort of point, but rather to refer such matters to the appropriate "authorities". I'm not sure what if anything the blocking admin would do if there were a request to shorten the period of the block, but right now, there are as I see only two options of what others could do. What you do is of course up to you.

• 1) If the blocking admin saw real evidence that you regretted the actions which led to the block, and believed you would be unlikely to engage in such behavior again, there is a chance, although I'm not necessarily sure how good of a one, that the block might be shortened. I wouldn't try to rely on that too much.
• 2) The other is to basically, just wait out the two weeks.
• Regardless of which option comes to be, I very much think that based on your own statements you were trying to prove a point, and there really is no purpose to such actions around here. Basically, I and all the other admins and senior editors already know that there are inconsistencies and occasional unreasonable deference in the system to some editors. There's no real point in trying to prove a point everybody accepts already. Misplaced Pages does not and never has existed in a perfect world, and it has its flaws as much as anything else does. What we should try to do is try to take direct potentially productive action to address those matters when we can, and, if for whatever reason that doesn't work, and we all know that at times it doesn't, just carry one anyway. The only real point we have to prove here is that the information we gather and present to the world is the best that a collaborative body of this nature can produce. The internal politics are really not something we should even want to do much about, particularly not on our own. We have the various governance bodies for that. You are probably one of the best editors we have in what you do, and we would be very much the worse off if you were to leave, voluntarily or involuntarily.

I would personally suggest that at this point, if you think you can give the blocking admin a reason to shorten the block, that you do so. Otherwise, the best thing to do is wait the block out and return when it's expired. God knows there are a ton of articles out there in less than good shape, any of which you could find material on to improve in that time.

You could always take the time off to have a break from this place, which something most of us need regularly. I know for myself there are a rather distressingly large number of items from The Teaching Company I would like to access. You could always do something like that. Alternately, if you still wanted to spend the time doing something related to this site, maybe working on developing one of our less impressive articles might be the best way to spend the period, as it would give you a bit of a break from your routine. John Carter (talk) 17:41, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• I only yesterday realized Bishonen and Bishzilla were the same person. I do not know all the politics behind regarding her and I don't get what is going on there, the baby talk etc. But the sockpuppets were already known, just like Geogre's were, to the special group. I think the blocking admin is one of those protecting that special group, judging from the posts. She posted that she had no conflicts with me when he notified her he was blocking me. I do regret what I did, and would never have done it if I thought it was serious. I realize now that it was trying to prove a point, and that trying to make a point is wrong on Misplaced Pages. But I believe he will not reduce the block, as probably it is in revenge for my speaking up at Geogre's ArbCom and makes Giano happy. I should have known I would be punished for that. Very stupid of me, but I did not connect the dots.
• I will not return to Misplaced Pages after two weeks. There is no way I would do that. Other users I respected have left for the same reasons and stayed away. Besides, it would be breaking the terms of my ArbCom to say that I was leaving and then come back. That was one of the accusations against me, that I do not keep my work in such matter. I will keep my word.
• I will try emailing him that I am sorry and ask if he will reduce the block. If not, then I am gone, if there is no other appeal I can make. And apparently there is not.
• I do thank you for all of your help. It has meant a lot to me. I have a very high opinion of you.

Regards, —mattisse (Talk) 18:13, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

ArbCom findings regarding my behavior

I believe ArbCom is saying the important dimensions of my behavior that need to be addressed are the following:

1. I cast aspersions.
2. I personalize the routine remarks of others.
3. I make accusations and personal attacks on others.
4. I have accused a group of editors of cabalism. I composed a list including these editors among others.
5. I continue to comment long after an issue is resolved and this is considered POINTy.
6. I make statements that I will no longer participate in a particular forum but I have returned to that forum.

• Note. Regarding casting aspersions:

• This applies to people commenting on Mattisse as well as Mattisse commenting on others. Civil behaviour is required both ways here, as is use of dispute resolution, rather than sniping, bringing up old disputes, and returning to previous behaviour. Some have pursued dispute resolution here. Others have sniped. -Carcharoth.
• This was noted in other places in the Decision and supported by another Arbcom member.

The sniping has started up in the last weeks, even personal attacks and uncivil comments by others. They broke the rules above but I did not. I have not engaged in the above behaviors to my knowledge, and if close, I have followed my mentor's advice. Making a joking sockpuppet statement was "impolitic" and very poor judgment, but it was not made with malice by rather to make fun. I am not malicious like some of the statements made to and about me lately. And I have not sniped, as others do to me. There are those who will not rest until I am gone. They want things their way and occasionally I have a different opinion, so I must be denigrated and snuffed out. ArbCom was trying to level the playing field, but they could not do it. It is too bad, but I see there is to much of network out to get me and it is hopeless. There is nothing I can do to stop this. This incident drains all hope. —mattisse (Talk) 17:38, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

• Sniping and casting aspersions: , (edit summary), , .
• Accusations of cabalism:

None of these could remotely be construed as "playful" or "joking". You used sockpuppets to cast these aspersions, then acted evasively when called on it, and finally offered unnamed and uncited "attacks" on you as justification. Your statement that others "broke the rules but I did not" suggests that you see nothing problematic in your actions. I see that your mentors have raised some of these concerns above. I am strongly opposed to shortening this block, to the point that I would strongly encourage any admin considering doing so to submit the matter for community review before acting. If there is reason to think that this sort of thing will continue after the 2-week block expires, then I will raise the issue with the Arbitration Committee. This is unhealthy. MastCell  18:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)