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Important — please note The Committee, in passing the motion to open this case, provided explicit direction to all editors participating in this case: "Editors are expected to observe appropriate decorum on the case pages and in any other discussion of this incident." "Editors are instructed to refrain from disclosing on-wiki the name or other identifying information concerning any editor who does not edit under or disclose on-wiki his or her real-world identity. Any evidence that would have the potential effect of making such a disclosure shall not be posted on-wiki, but shall be e-mailed to the Arbitration Committee. The committee will take appropriate steps to ensure that no editor is sanctioned based on private evidence without an appropriate opportunity to respond to such evidence, while also seeking to ensure that editors' identifying information is not unnecessarily disclosed." "All editors, whether or not they are potential parties to the case, are strongly urged to exercise consideration and discretion in dealing both on- and off-wiki with all aspects of this highly sensitive situation. Any behavior that would unnecessarily inflame or widen the dispute should be avoided." The Clerk for this case is KnightLago (talk · contribs) who will be assisted by non-recused members of the Clerk team in enforcing the above rules. The Clerks will, wherever it deems necessary, refactor and remove statements where they violate the above directions, or where they violate the general standards of decorum and Misplaced Pages policies. The Clerks will, where required for particular egregious or repetitive violations, ban participants from the case pages for an appropriate period of time. Both the refactoring of statements, and case page bans, that are implemented by the Clerks, can be appealed to the Committee. If any user requires assistance in submitting private evidence to the Arbitrators in the method requested by Committee (see the second bullet point, above), please contact a member of the Clerks or, alternatively, an Arbitrator directly. —User:KnightLago (talk) 02:17, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Arbitrators active on this case

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On Russavia

@Coren; I didn't really explain my reasoning for this on the workshop. As I read the situation, Russavia was topic-banned, then vigorously protested, saying in part, that he removed bad stuff from a lot of articles, and that without being able to edit, the only way to get the bad stuff removed would be to contact the subjects, some of whom might want to sue. As a result, he was blocked for legal threats. The issue for me is that at least part of the reason Russavia got frustrated and lashed out may have been as a result of off-wiki coordination through this mailing list. Additionally, it seems inequitable that the people who have been (allegedly) coordinating attacks and gaming their revert paroles against him would be topic-banned, but that he would be completely blocked (or, unblocked on condition that he only edit case pages). So largely for reasons of equity, I proposed putting him on the same footing as the other editors pending the final outcome. Thatcher 02:03, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

As the banning admin, I'd like to note that "remains banned from Eastern European pages under the terms of Sandstein's original ban" is unclear because I banned Russavia only from anything related to the Soviet Union and its successor states. The injunction can be read as extending this topic ban to all of Eastern Europe, which I believe is not necessary. Conversely, there is the issue of his indef block by Good Olfactory for disruption and legal threats, currently only conditionally lifted to allow arbitration participation; is this block ordered to be removed by the injunction's "may freely edit other articles and pages"? It might be better not to address Russavia's situation, which is at least stable, at all in this injunction, and modify any sanctions applying to him only in the final decision (if that is required).  Sandstein  06:29, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

If i have incompletely understood the history then Arbcom may perhaps need to clarify the motion as to their intent. My own intent in proposing it was to put Russavia on an equal footing with the other editors for the duration of the case. Thatcher 13:18, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

My own position is simply that, at this time, I would prefer to not judge the appropriateness of the sanctions that were placed in the past. — Coren  13:29, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Clarification for editor please

Biophys has posted on User:YMB29 talk page, advising him that he is under editing restrictions. Being unsure whether YMB29 will check this out in more detail or not, and because I am not able to edit anything unrelated to this Arbcom at present, would someone please be so kind as to advise YMB29 that he is not under any editing restrictions, and that it is only proposed at present to topic ban whilst the arbitration is active, those who were participants in the email list, not anyone that they may have discussed, as seems to be what Biophys may have taken the restrictions as meaning. --Russavia 04:26, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

On proposed temporary topic ban

As the founder and moderator of WikiProject Poland, the only user monitoring New Article Bot on Poland-related subjects, the user doing most of the Project assessments, the author of ~20 Poland-related Featured Articles, hundreds of Poland-related DYKs and so on, I would like to call into question whether a topic ban on a subject article that will effectively turn me - an editor in the Top 50 most active Misplaced Pages's editors specializing in Poland - into a non-editor - is benefiting this project. Hence I would like to ask the committee to consider more surgical topic bans. I do not understand why the committee feels such a measure is necessary in the first place, but we can discuss that later; for now I can voluntarily promise not the edit anything relating to Russian modern politics and to adopt a 1RR for the Eastern European content (which wouldn't be that different from my regular editing pattern). --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 06:48, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you. This hasty ban is nonsensical. First, the 'evidence' was obtained illegally (hacking). Secondly, as of now there's zero evidence that the mailing list resulted in significant disruption to EE articles. Thirdly, flatly forbidding experienced EE users to contribute to any articles on their preferred topics is counterproductive, given that all the parties to this case are currently watched and scrutinized anyway. --Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 07:03, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps several users broke the rules while on this mailing list, but I don't understand why everyone on this list is immediately guilty. As long as this topic ban is temporary I can understand such move, I just hope it really is temporary. Grey Fox (talk) 07:18, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

and the most scary thing is that based on stolen and for sure many fake e-mails, they are voting now on banning all active Polish and Estonian editors from the English Misplaced Pages. I hope they do realize what that means. P.S. No wondering most opponents are so active here throwing acusations and "evidences" around. :) What a huge opportunity to rewrite "problematic" Polish or Estonian related articles the "right" way. What unbelievable bonanza ahead!! :):)--Jacurek (talk) 08:26, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

• The topic ban is very fine and dandy, except have the Arbcom noted that the "mailing list evidence" suggests others have been copypasting in the edits of topic banned and blocked users in the past? Piotrus you know that very well!Giano (talk) 08:28, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I would like to know the justification to my ban. I have been inactive in wikipedia for more than a year, so my belonging to any list cannot be tied to my activities on WP. I would also like to point pout that any sane person caring about the quality of said sector of WP would not support this ban. The balance of POV-s has always been delicate in EE, you would break it down completely. --Alexia Death the Grey (talk) 08:33, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

This temporary injunction is a preventative measure and not a sanction. When a person (or a group) is suspected of misbehavior while doing a specific activity, being directed to suspend that activity during the investigation is a common measure.

Remember that this is a measure that gets lifted automatically at the conclusion of the case. — Coren  13:26, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Preventing suspected misbehavior of what kind? I see, in evidence, accusations of targeting several articles related to modern Russian politics, of stalking/harassing certain editors and of edit warring. A specific topic ban on modern Russian politics, a 1RR restriction, and possibly a ban on making comments on certain editors outside this arbitration should solve all the issues, wouldn't they? What's the reason that I cannot finish writing my new article on Adolf Bniński and develop it into a my DYK no. 284, why is Radek prevented from doing the same on Stanisław Aronson, why is Poeticbent to be denied getting the chance to work on History of Kraków to bring it to a GA, why Tymek shouldn't be allowed to finish translating Numeration of railway lines in Poland, why are we prevented from taking part in a new promising mediation...? What's so undeniably disruptive about 99.9% of our regular edits that we need to be practically indef banned, on the basis of stolen and - as I am now pretty much sure - tampered with evidence? While the evidence is highly unreliable at best, our content creation logs and history speak for themselves. There is a no denying that with this topic ban, Misplaced Pages will loose much uncontroversial, high quality content. I cannot understand why this is not being taken into account, where a small tailoring of the temporary injunction should satisfy all concerns and allow us to work on improving the project in a public and uncontroversial ways we usually do. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 16:22, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Guilt by association

So let's see: the Committee has opened a case nostra sponte, arbitrarily named everyone who participated on a mailing list as parties, and is now proceeding to ban all these participants merely on the basis of their presence on said list, despite the lack of any specific allegations against them? There can be no pretense here that this is intended to prevent some ongoing or expected disruption, as many of these editors have been inactive for months; the ban is collective punishment, nothing more.

(And let us be honest: given the Committee's normal speed, a ban "pending the resolution of the case" is likely to last months. What exactly does the Committee plan to do with the innocent subscribers to the list, who will have endured bans for no apparent reason? Or is the possibility of innocence not even being considered?)

Presumably the Committee will follow up by banning everyone involved in, say, Misplaced Pages Review, or any of the other venues where plots among editors are allegedly being hatched? Or would that too greatly inconvenience the honored arbitrators who so enjoy participating there?

Hypocrisy is not a virtue; and "How to deal with Poles" is not an instructional guide. The course this proceeding is taking is utterly disgraceful. Kirill  14:58, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

What is disgraceful is that editors from the same topic area, often the very same editors, repeatedly engage in actions that lead to repeated arbcom cases. You're welcome to rejoin the committee at any time. — Rlevse • Talk • 15:35, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Whoa. I didn't realize an injunction like this was even proposed, much less that it's almost passing. I doubt this case will be so one-sided that we will even consider decimating one side of the dispute. There are no community trust issues, no privacy issues, and no good reasons for urgency, so this is not a good injunction.

Thank you for watching this case. Cool Hand Luke 16:13, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I came here to express my sentiments on this motion, but see Kirill has already done so with great competence. (Every time I think that ArbCom has exhasuted the possible limits of absurdity and injustice, they do something to prove me wrong...)--Kotniski (talk) 17:07, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

It's only absurd and unjust when you don't agree with it. If you agree with it, it's brilliant. — Rlevse • Talk • 17:10, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

If that's aimed at me, I don't believe I've ever felt that ArbCom was brilliant (except perhaps in the happy period before I knew how it "worked"). Every time I accidentally come into contact with it, my only impressions are that it's at best a bureaucratic monster, and at worst a callous dispenser of injustice. Handing out punishments before a case has even started, to people whose only known crime is to have associated with possibly the wrong people, can hardly fail to reinforce the latter sentiment.--Kotniski (talk) 17:20, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Guilty until proven innocent. And how can one prove he is innocent, if the court is accepting stolen and fake-able evidence (and any counter-evidence, being of the same type, can be also fake-able)? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:25, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I've switched to oppose from support. This will give the Committee more time to examine the evidence and decide what needs to be done here. However, if it emerges that any editors that this topic ban was proposed for have engaged in disruptive behaviour, and continued to engage in disruptive behaviour during the case, then that will likely be reflected in the final decision. Carcharoth (talk) 17:35, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Could you define disruptive behavior, so we are on the same page? --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 17:47, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Are you saying that all this time as an admin you didn't know what disruptive behavior is? (Igny (talk) 18:42, 19 September 2009 (UTC))

I am saying that my definition of disruptive behavior includes things such as hacking somebody's computer and sharing private information with third parties, but does not include private discussions of wikipolitics. Apparently, this differs with the definition used by others. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 18:48, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

I request that any administrative sanctions follow the conclusion of these proceedings, because that is how we do business around here. There’s no benefit in beating around the bushes with preventative bans on positive contributions. Please, take as an example my latest leading DYK, featured on the front page on Sept 16. – With over 6,600 views on that date, Trzy Korony massif is featured at WP:DYKSTATS for this month. – Why would I need to endure a topic ban on Poland’s countryside, I don’t know? By the way, anybody would accept an invitation to a discussion group faster than I did. --Poeticbent talk 18:38, 19 September 2009 (UTC)