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David Shankbone

David Shankbone (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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This article uses spurious sourcing (namely the subject's blog, various other blogs, and Wikinews) to create a piece that appears to be a valid article, yet really isn't. It should be noted that the subject of the article has an account on Misplaced Pages (User:David Shankbone). While there are news references to the subject, there isn't sufficient coverage to merit inclusion. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:39, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

• Delete. Pure navel gazing; we're not David's personal PR operation, and if he were writing for any site other than Misplaced Pages this would have been A7'd. (For some perspective, that "major interview" averages 11 views a day.) We already went through this with David Gerard, who with all due respect is considerably more notable than his namesake Shankbone. – iridescent 22:42, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
• Keep I find the claim that "he became the first citizen journalist to interview a sitting head of state" to be enough to meet WP:BIO. ("The person has made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in his or her specific field"). Additionally, the Columbia Journalism Review piece indicates there is verifiability. Prodego 22:43, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Before we go keeping this article over that pretty substantial claim, considering it is the basis of the notability argument, could you actually find a source for it? It sounds plausible but unlikely to me without a reference, and might just be a misunderstanding of the line "its reporter was the first Wikinews staffer to interview a head of state" from the InformationWeek article. (That would be a considerably weaker claim.) Dominic·t 23:27, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
    • If that claim is not true, then that drastically changes the notability of Shankbone. I would say that my 'keep' is dependent on that claim in fact. Prodego 23:51, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
  • What exactly is a "citizen journalist" and how is it defined in any regard different than a standard journalist? (this would require a citation actually using the term and in a manner that is applicable for him being the "first", plus a citation verifying it, each independent sources that are reliable. Then you would need to prove that citizen journalist is a real term, as the page seems to suffer from WP:NEO and is promoting something as opposed to being encyclopedic) And, regardless, why would it matter? Furthermore, who would even define it, especially since he is an amateur journalist or a professional journalist (its an either or), and both have interviewed heads of states, so, I don't see the assertion really standing. Ottava Rima (talk) 01:49, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm not convinced on this - I would want to see appropriate verifiability. In Australia, I remember school children interviewing the Prime Minister of the day following journalism competitions. While some might claim that's not journalism per se, it's no more or less "journalistic" than anything else. Achromatic (talk) 01:56, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
    • I've left a note on the author of the article's talk page regarding that statement - hopefully he will promptly respond and clarify the strength of that statement. Prodego 02:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Keep Per Prodego; the interview in the Brooklyn Rail and article in Jewish Week also support notability, and the Information Week article says that Israeli newspaper El Haaretz covered Shankbone's visit and Wikinews' coverage stemming from the visit. I've no interest in promotional articles, but I think there's enough here to satisfy WP:BIO. JNW (talk) 22:55, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
• Keep per Prodego, pending confirmation of basis. While I realize we should guard against navel gazing, if one of our own becomes notable, we should not flinch from a biography on that individual. KillerChihuahuaAdvice 00:35, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Comment - reads like a puff piece. If this is kept it needs some rebalancing I think. Not yet decided about whether he's notable enough, like Prodego I'd like that source verified. ++Lar: t/c 00:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Delete - all sources are minimal at best and fails the threshold for "significant coverage". Clearly non-notable individual. Ottava Rima (talk) 00:52, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Delete per Ottava Rima; if the claim Prodego emphasized is proven to be true, this may require revisiting. Until then, this individual is not sufficiently noteworthy. –Juliancolton |  00:54, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Keep Without discovering the details, I have learned that the subject is controversial here, and I acknowledge the danger of encouraging articles about figures "notable" for Wikipedian reasons. However, I agree with Prodego re the citizen journalist, and even if all the Misplaced Pages-related material were removed from the article (I don't think it should be) the subject would still be marginally notable. Johnuniq (talk) 00:55, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Delete Navel-gazing, dubious notability. Achromatic (talk) 01:56, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Delete. Until flagged revisions are implemented on BLPs on marginally notable subjects they should be deleted. Cla68 (talk) 02:10, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Keep. The Columbia Journalism Review and InformationWeek coverage would seem to indicate to me that verifiability have been satisfied. I'm not convinced he's (yet) the Barbara Walters of citizen journalism, but, nevertheless, I think the pieces illustrate that our requirements for notability have been met. user:J aka justen (talk) 02:17, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Delete - I'm not convinced about the references and, per Prodego, would like to see that reference. We've had quite a few notable editors here in the past - many who have their own articles (User:Jokestress comes to mind) - but notability via Misplaced Pages leaves me twitchy indeed. Outside WP, David, who's an excellent yet amateur photographer, doesn't seem to have established the required notability. Also, the article needs serious editing for balance and neutrality. Further-urthermore, it'll also serve as the perfect focus for BLP-related attacks from David's enemies, of which he seems to have a few. I've already move-protected it as I await the inevitable. In short, NN, somewhat dubiously-referenced, currently reads as a puff-piece and is a BLP disaster waiting to happen. I'm no particular fan of David Shankbone (David Miller seems much nicer. Seriously), but I don't want to see him suffering the kind of BLP-related attacks that others have had to deal with here - Alison 02:39, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Keep The ample reliable and verifiable sources are far from "spurious" and included the in-depth coverage that satisfies the Misplaced Pages notability standard. Alansohn (talk) 03:40, 19 October 2009 (UTC)
• Delete The sources don't address the subject in substantial detail, so this doesn't meet WP:N. All we have is a pile of trivia. He acts like a journalist and gets a lot of interviews -- so do thousands of other people who get published. Same goes for photographs. Even the Columbia Journalism Review article, which might have substantial coverage of him, is used for trivia. There doesn't seem to be any source out there that gives us the depth of coverage needed for an article. JohnWBarber (talk) 04:18, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

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