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Former article talkpages (archived) Talk:Kosovo/ Republic of Kosovo Kosovo (geopolitical region)

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Fake de facto North Kosovo

"except for North Kosovo, which remains under de facto governance of Serbia." this is Fake

Municipalities in the north including north mitrovica use UNMIK stamps not republic of Serbia Stamps

Courts use Eulex Stamp there is no Republic of Serbia in the Courts

Kosovo Police in the north reports to EULEX police there are no Republic of Serbia Police in the north

There is No Police of (Republic of Serbia) in North Kosovo Customs

the person who edited this probably dont know what is governance?-- LONTECH 14:26, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

I have addressed this issue before. It is a bit of a sticky point, not easy to define. Three municipalities in North Kosovo and two others elsewhere are not controlled by Belgrade, but by locals. The locals of the five municipalities have a Serb majority who govern themselves in such a way as to deliberately observe Belgrade policy. Then again, Serbia does and has always recognised UNMIK and sees this as the highest body with the authority to rule over all matters. I believe that the governance within the five municipalities operates in such a way as to also respect this position. But what is unclear is: with there being an Albanian population within the Serb enclaves, how does it happen that Pristina leaves this region alone? What would happen if Pristina decided to assert its control over these areas? Does it really not wish to on account of the Albanians forming a minority? Or is it really EURALEX which is stopping them from doing so in order to keep peace? If it is the latter, then it is clear that local Serbs are maintaining influence in their zones. But these questions I believe nobody can answer. Evlekis (talk) 13:08, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Regarding UNMIK - Stop PROPAGANDA please

KOSVO ASSEMBLY is the HIGHEST body

Unmik and Eulex serves as Bridge beetween Prishtina and North Kosovo after independence UNMIK is DEAD

Serbs are maintaining and will maintain influence in all Municipalities as long as they are majority in those municipalities In order to give serbs more independence from Prishtina and according to DECENTRALIZATION Prishtina will create at least 5 other municipalities with serbian majority ex.(Gracanica) which now is part of Prishtina, Municipality OF NORTH MITROVICA, Prtesh etc -- LONTECH 21:54, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

There is no propaganda. UNMIK, NATO, UN, EU, EURALEX, call it what you wish. There is an international presence in Kosovo. The Kosovo Assembly is heavily dependent on this presence because left to fight one against one with no logistical support from or arms coming from the side, Kosovo would not last long against Serbia. They kept the war going by forever running for cover in Albania to regroup every time the VJ advanced, but take away outside help (from Albania too) and arms and support (from the US) and Kosovo will not have the power to fight. Sufficient is it to say that in the event of a dispute between Kosovo's "assembly" and the international authorities, the so-called "HIGHEST body" is in no position to give EURALEX orders. So the "assembly" has de facto control of most of its municipalities and that is the end. The other five are governed locally. Evlekis (talk) 03:44, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Your reply is Demagogy and no one here dont like to hear Demagogy

the "assembly" dont have de facto control of most of its municipalities and that is not the end because the Assembly of Kosovo dont control local governments (local cities) local Assembly

You dont have idea what is Assembly?

Every city (municipality) has its own Assembly they are independent from the Assembly of Kosovo-- LONTECH 05:06, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Well Lontech, if people don't want to know about demagogy you should have thought about that before starting this provocative and disruptive section "North Kosovo is fake". I know what an assembly is (скупштина, skupština, sobranie, knesset, seimas, Russian Duma, mejlis?). It is parliament. The powers of the townships and municipalities are limited and cannot violate the constitution, neither can they overlook provisions laid down by the assembly. If the ministries which form the assembly state "drive with these plates, use this currency, this is our phone code etc" then all who serve that assembly are obliged to comply. The assembly of Kosovo implements nothing at all within the Serb enclaves and it seems according to you that the international heavy mob stands to ensure that this status quo remains in place. Evlekis (talk) 13:54, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

"under de facto governance of Serbia" - do you agree that this statement this is Fake -- LONTECH 04:58, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Not fake, just de facto as you say. Nothing de facto can be fake. How it is de jure governed is a different matter but that is the whole source of the dispute. --Evlekis (talk) 13:56, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

De facto - No courts no police no army there are no Republic of serbia in the north and there are Kosovo Police in the North and the command of the Kosovo Police is in Prishtina

you misunderstood the term defacto or you forgot that there are no institution of republic of serbia in the north

stop propaganda

this should be removed or renamed under Eulex administration -- LONTECH 14:32, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Lontech, will you please refrain from constantly reproducing this isolated "Stop propaganda" slogan. You are not here to demonstrate, and this is not a protest. Nobody is spreading propaganda. The loyalty of the Serb enclaves to Belgrade is optional and is not a claim that the municipalities form some sort of "Serbian sattelite state". They may be making the most of their autonomy and there may yet be a police force controlled by Pristina there, but is that force doing anything more than driving around and carrying out ceremonial patrols? According to my information, the three northern municipalities are taking their orders from the ethnic Serb section of Kos. Mitrovica. This body in turn governs its region in such a way which is unconstitutional throughout the rest of Kosovo. For example, Albanian is an official language. It can either be superior to or on the same level as Serbian according to the Kosovan Assembly. That means that no Serb should leave school unable to speak Albanian for having had atleast one part of his basic education with that tongue as the medium of instruction. You provide me with a list of schools in "Fake North Kosovo" which the "Prishtina Police" is ensuring that Albanian is taught to non-Albanians. --Evlekis (talk) 18:36, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Its is not just porpaganda but it is also Demagogy You have a lack of information about official languages in kosovo According to constitution of Republic Of Kosovo Official languages are Albanian and Serbian

what about your state tetovo city in macedonia etc. does this cities take orders from albania and not from skopje (since albanians govern this municipalities) this is demagogy

again i thought you agreed in your in your first reply you said it is not controlled by belgrade but by locals

do you agree to remove under de facto of governance of serbia - they can take orders but they are governed by locals as you said -- LONTECH 20:45, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

We can add they keep strong ties with serbia -- LONTECH 20:45, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Now I see what you are proposing. Well certainly I agree; at no time did I personally suggest that North Kosovo was with the rest of Serbia. Locals govern for sure, and what degree of their governance is accepted by Pristina and what is beyond its influence is a different subject. I can safely say that I see no problem with your idea. No demagogy or propaganda now! :) --Evlekis (talk) 21:13, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Infobox

I solved the infobox problem at long last by taking out the irrelevant one and placing the national ROK box on the top as people need to see it. Can't argue with democracy and that is how all Kosovars see the state (because Serbs are not real Kosovars and they are down to about 1% anyway). In addition, this is how a vast amount of countries recognize the region. This is also as per concensus on this page (ie. Kedadi, myself, Anna Fabiano, Factarius, a gang of others). The "anti-Kosovo" party lead by Dab lost out and run out of steam a good month ago. They have given no arguments and are grappling onto the lost cause "it is Serbia" rebuffed view. Lover Of Democracy (talk) 09:23, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

This sort of behavior makes me ashamed to be on the same side as you. While I am in favor of Kosovo independence, it is rather rude and bigoted to refer to people who have lived their entire lives in Kosovo as not being real Kosovars. As far as the infoboxes go, as long as this page is not officially the Republic of Kosovo page that infobox should NOT be at the top. This page should be reformatted into a disambiguation page leading to articles dealing with each phase in Kosovo's history and each government that currently claims it. Also a "lover of democracy" should have asked for input from others before doing this. Khajidha (talk) 13:26, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

If you dont have a Good reason to oppose INFObox on top STOP Replying

There is a Big HUGE propaganda about this article

There is a fact that: We are using double standards for Kosovo and other states (Abhkazia) etc even editors dont know the reason why they are opposing Coat of arms cause they change their statements every hour

Finally: There is a Consensus about this-- LONTECH 00:07, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

All serious Misplaced Pages editors are tired of having discussions about the same thing over and over again. If you don't have the will to look over the previous discussions about the matter and do not want to put some effort into reading all of them, I do not have the will, nor will I put any effort into, repeating it all. Show some respect for this web-site and project. --Cinéma C 01:04, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

there is a broad consensus to put ROK in top.-- LONTECH 02:18, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

nonsense. There are no "double standards", we are judging each case on its own merit as we should. This has been discussed to death. The current revision is perfectly stable, and any attempts at edit-warring over it should be met with sanctions per the hatnote on this page. Any bogus claims of "consensus" just go to illustrate bad faith on the part of those making them. Now please find something else to invest your wiki time in. --dab (𒁳) 09:49, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

in fact, I must concede that the Abkhazia and South Ossetia articles appear to be biased in favour of the secessionist viewpoint. Please take this to Talk:Abkhazia and Talk:South Ossetia and stop complaining about it here; see also WP:OTHERCRAP, one policy violation is no defense of another. --dab (𒁳) 10:02, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

There are no "double standards" you said also I'll post one of your statements here -> There is no UN resolution recognizing any "Republic of Kosovo". but my friend i'll repeat it again UN dont recognize states

and i think that you dont have knowledge about Diplomacy and International Law

You maybe are admin but that doesn't mean you know everything

Also you are breaking every Misplaced Pages rule there is a broad consensus 80-90% about this and if you want i'll add names.-- LONTECH 18:14, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

All you have done since you arrived on this page is post incoherent inflammatory comments and general accusations of pretty much everything. Please try to contribute more constructively in future. ninety:one 17:07, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

"United Nations has maintained a position of strict neutrality on the question of Kosovo's status"., and so has Misplaced Pages. Slapping the secessionist flag at the top of the Kosovo article hardly amounts to "a position of strict neutrality". Now please stop trolling this talkpage. --dab (𒁳) 17:52, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

It is not neutral to slap the flag of Serbia with a miniscule Kosovo inside. We're trying to be consistent with Abkhazia and South Ossetia. I would advise that you stop bullying around and revert edits when there is a consensus. We are not doing the same thing to Serbia's page, but given your behavior, probably we should.user:sulmues--Sulmues 21:34, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I suggest that we go back to the version of Lover of Democracy. user:sulmues--Sulmues 21:38, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Stop comparing articles, read what dab wrote. Georgia has a map that doesn't have Abkhazia and S. Ossetia shaded, while the map of Serbia has Kosovo shaded in that article. So what? I could go on complaining that the Serbia article should resemble the Georgia article, but I understand that every case is unique. Besides, even the Kosovo leadership and those who support it use the "every case is unique" argument, so accept that there's no neutrality if one side gets it all, and the other side gets nothing. I know it's easier to just push your own beliefs instead of trying to see things from a different point of view. Tolerance, mutual understanding and respect. Start from there. On the other hand, I'm afraid that some users are using Misplaced Pages to promote their "national interests" to a global stage (since Misplaced Pages is a popular web-site) and don't really care that this is not the purpose of this encyclopedia. If this is your goal, leave now. If not, show how you can think above your own POV. --Cinéma C 00:59, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Cinema C dont act here like neutral . Go check http://en.wikipedia.org/Template_talk:Kosovo-note

what are you tryin to do with your statements now is clear. you want to win support of other serious editors like dab etc.

so dont act like your neutral.-- LONTECH 11:06, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Dab You have to accept there is a consensus but that consensus is not valid because you decided like that.-- LONTECH 11:20, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

There was never consensus for three (3!!) infoboxes, that was always absurd on it's face. Wiki practice is a single infobox in all of our articles. Multiplying infoboxes is not an accepted practice, what if there are 8-10 different POVs on a topic use 10 infoboxes on top of each other? Not to mention the horrid redundancy for exl. Hashim Thaci being the prime minister in all Kosovos... All POVs can be properly explained in the text. Serbs believe in Greater Serbia Kosovars believe in independent Kosovo. Usa is for X Russia is for Y etc etc. Hobartimus (talk) 23:01, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh really? Serbs believe in Greater Serbia? I'd like a reference showing all Serbs believe in Greater Serbia. Kosovars believe in independent Kosovo? Really? The Serbs in North Kosovo believe in independent Kosovo too? --Cinéma C 23:24, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

No the user is stating that they believe in both Greater Serbia and an independent Kosovo!!!!!!!! --Evlekis (talk) 15:54, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

May I suggest that issues regarding Abkhazia should be resolved at that talk page? Just because that article does or doesn't do something, doesn't mean that this article should or shouldn't do it, nor vice-versa. OTOH, if you think that the situations are essentially the same and should thus be treated the same, and if there are other examples that should follow the same convention, feel free to join or start a discussion about a convention for those cases.

But please, use this talk page to discuss this article. 193.2.132.108 (talk) 21:20, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

I see no change in consensus. I see a single-topic editor repeating over and over how there is supposedly a new consensus, without any evidence that this is so. The current article revision is the stable consensus such as it is, and was developed after months of debate. If you want to do a significant change in presentation, such as merging, splitting or moving about infoboxes, you will need a very clear change in consensus before you go ahead. Before there is any evidence of that, we are just wasting time here. --dab (𒁳) 11:19, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

There is a new consensus, I even took voting on it and we were told that Misplaced Pages is not a democracy. That was a 10-1 vote. If that's not consensus... http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Kosovo&oldid=314341520#There_is_a_standard_on_wikipediauser:sulmues--198.185.66.249 (talk) 12:21, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

dab now you have evidence.-- LONTECH 14:59, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

You are now approaching disruption. This consensus 'vote' was created by one user: . Of that list, this is not valid, neither is this. This is questionable. Please stop. ninety:one 20:45, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

"This consensus 'vote' was created by one user" This seems false. As the linked diff shows that edit merely summarizes stuff (moves it into one place). And what do you mean by "questionable" that link you gave? What exactly is questionable about it? One thing seems clear is that, the current non-consensus version (3 infoboxes) was never created nor maintained by any agreement of editors(consensus) but by simple reverts to sustain it. Consensus is actually against this as is standard wikipedia practice in all our other articles. Please show just a single wikipedia country article with three (3!!!) info boxes on top of each other. Hobartimus (talk) 21:24, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I think that what I created is real consensus. Consensus is not trying to convince everyone, because there will be always someone who will disagree. We are trying to convince people that are philibustering against a very reasonable change (HAVING ONE COUNTRY INFOBOX ONLY). The arrogance is shown with requests like "stop trolling this page!", "you are disrupting!", "you are being rude!", while all I am doing is to bring consensus. And even after I bring it, there is Cinema C saying "wikipedia is not a forum", or "wikipedia is not a democracy". After rehashing those things, he makes his own changes (meaning Serbian POV) and hides behind "be bold". Or starts a war of banning people who are bringing valid arguments. I am trying to bring SERIOUS EDITORS AND CONTRIBUTORS to understand that we are having an anomaly with Kosovo as:

the only partially recognized country in Misplaced Pages NOT TO HAVE A FLAG AND COA on top;

the only partially recognized country in Misplaced Pages with 3 different infoboxes to express two different POVs (one huge Serbian infobox that stays on top, and a tiny Albanian one in the bottom), and one "neutral" (UN) one.

The first infobox is rather generic, the only "pro-Serb" item really being the map. The ROK box is next, followed by the UN box. As for your point about this being the only partially recognized country treated this way, perhaps the others should be changed? (For the record, I am in favor of Kosovan independence and of splitting this article. That should take care of your "only the Serbs are against me" statements.) Khajidha (talk) 00:28, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

It seems to me like we are having a gratuitus offense to Misplaced Pages readers who are not able to read they just look at infoboxes. It's not the case: people read. They also have opinions and by the voting I took it wasn't a good one. I make a call to serious editors and contributors to intervene and based on a consensus reached to make one SINGLE INFOBOX WITH ALL THE DATA OF KOSOVO AND FLAG+COA ON TOP. That would be a great improvement to the article.sulmues (talk)--Sulmues 15:00, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

kajidha we are not askin for advisory opinion

cause The consensus already exist

what we are tryin to do here is that we're trying to convince serious editors like (dab,etc) to change infobox because consensus exists and is valid -- LONTECH  Talk  06:42, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Obviously the consensus DOES NOT exist. At least not the consensus you mean. Khajidha (talk) 20:59, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

provocative reply khajidha When it comes to existence of things they exist or they do not.You dont have at least I said serious editors khajidha not editors who would change the whole wikipedia article infoboxes just to stop kosovo COA on top-- LONTECH  Talk  10:20, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

First, I fail to see how my reply was provocative. The fact that several editors (including "serious editors" -your term- like dab) are against it shows that there is not agreement with your proposal. Second, yes, things exist or do not exist, but a consensus is a system not a thing. Third, I said nothing about changing all of wikipedia or the structure of the infoboxes. What I said was, that if other disputed countries have their country box at the top of the article perhaps those articles are the ones that need to be changed. This means that there would be separate articles for the history of the regions and the political bodies that claim said regions. This is the approach I have always advocated for this article in particular. I have no problem with the ROK infobox being at the top of the ROK article, this just isn't that article. Finally, it is really disruptive to the flow of conversations for you not to indent your responses. Khajidha (talk) 14:05, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

you can call it whatever you want system, democracy, agreement etc even systems exist or do not exist and yes you said "perhaps the others should be changed?"

check this http://en.wikipedia.org/History_of_Kosovo Kosovo history actually exists

The history of kosovo belongs to the people who lived and live there in that territory for thousands years (Serbs,Albanians etc.) and the people who live there decided to be independent.The histroy of kosovo dont belong to occupations check history of France, etc during Germany occupation the history of France dont belong to Germans

I want to get the approval from dab because he was involved in this article for long time he is wikipedia pioneer he is first or among the earliest in wikipedia-- LONTECH  Talk  18:33, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I will wait for a couple of weeks and will do the change myself if no one enters constructive opinoins. Dab is a very respectable wikipedian, but I cannot wait till he changes his mind. Doing thousands of changes in Misplaced Pages does not make you a Kosovo expert. This thread will come to oblivion exactly like the other infobox thread where I reached consensus to have ONE INFOBOX ONLY. I won't leave this article in Serbian POV pushers' handsuser:sulmues--Sulmues 13:36, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Disruptive edits

user Hxseek did a lot of distruptive edits in the article of kosovo history edits including Dardanian Kingdom, territory etc You can see history of the article he removed the text a couple of times and reverted

I warned him to stop these reverts check his talk page Hxseek talk

You can verify that this kingdom existed just go to google books and type dardanian kingdom you can find hundreds of books about this kingdom.

Kosovo represents the core of the Dardanian territory-- LONTECH  Talk  09:06, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Kosovo Article is now read by my program!

http://www.archive.org/details/KosovoWikipediaArticlesVideo Here is the full 127mb 02hours of reading from this wikipedia article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mdupont (talk • contribs) 17:19, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

UN Security Council

This article alleges that the NATO action in Kosovo was contrary to the provisions of the UN Charter. In fact, Article 52 of the UN Charter allows regional organisations such as NATO to take such action as is necessary for the maintenance of international peace and security, provided such actions are consistent with the purpose of the Charter. In other words, an explicit Security Council endorsement is not a necessary condition of every intervention, assuming a regional organisation meets the criteria laid down by the Charter (which the North Atlantic Treaty quite explicitly does - cf. the North Atlantic Treaty), and that the reasons for intervening are consistent with the Charter (given that there was an imminent danger of genocide in Kosovo, this criteria was also met by NATO).

While it common to mistakenly assume that the UN Security Council has to agree in every instance (frankly, very few people bother to read the Charter), there is no reason to endorse that mistake on the Kosovo page or elsewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by A.CollisonBaker (talk • contribs) 17:27, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Dardanian Kingdom

I know just about zilch on this topic, but I'm starting this section to encourage User:Hxseek and User:Lontech to get to discussing this topic, which they seem to be arguing over in other places.

After a cursory search, it seems to me the name "Kingdom of Dardania" itself is original research. The name would therefore need to be left out of the article. That doesn't mean Dardani shouldn't be mentioned at all, though. Perhaps some cues should be taken from the Dardani article. References for information relevant to Kosovo could probably be found there too.

Sorry I can't be of more help; I'm no historian. Please start discussing this issue here. Remember, this article is under a 1RR restriction, so there is to be no more reverting until this dispute is resolved. I'll be watching this page, and if anyone has questions (about policy etc, not Kosovo :) ) feel free to contact me. Good luck. Equazcion (talk) 09:09, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I just found this: http://albaniaonline.org/the-dardanian-kingdom/ . Not sure if it helps. Equazcion (talk) 09:15, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

What dispute there is no dispute at all the only person in this world who dispute this kingdom is Hxseek-- LONTECH  Talk  09:17, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

When someone disagrees with you on the content of an article, that's called a dispute. Equazcion (talk) 09:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

disagreement without any reference or change of credible referenced text is vandalism-- LONTECH  Talk  09:46, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

No, it's not. Vandalism means intentionally compromising the integrity of an article. If an editor is making edits that he believes make the article better, it's not vandalism. Read WP:Vandalism, and always assume good faith about other editors. Equazcion (talk) 09:49, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Lontech changed the original standing version to In antiquity, Kosovo formed the central part of the Kingdom of Dardania. This is wrong for several reasons. This "kingdom" - if it existed at all (it was more of a temporary tribal hegemony over neighbouring tribes, even by Antiquity standards)- lasted a couple of generations. Antiquity was a period which spanned several centuries. Error # 1. Secondy, the phrase in non-sensical and anachronistic. Kosovo is a later ethnomym. Lontech's statement is like stating that "France was the centre of Gaul" ! For this reason, I reverted it to older versions. In antiquity, the Dardani - a Thraco-Illyrian tribe, inhabited the territory roughly corresponding to present-day Kosovo. I do not even need to explain why this version is better. Whilst I understand that Lontech might not be a native English speaker, I do not understand his incapability to accept someone who is making good faith edits, who clearly has a better command of English and grasp of historical reality.

Moreoever, lontech's provided reference states nothing in support of his quote. It is a text about Ancient Macedon which makes a passing mention of on Cleitus "king of the Dardanii". This is blatant misrepresentation of the text. Moreoever, Lontech asserts that my edits are 'nationalistic". Not only is he obviously incorrect, but he is rather comical. I cannot see how one can harbour nationalistic sentiments against an ancient peoples which no longer exists :) Hxseek

Thank you for your help Equazcion. But that site is an unscholarly production by the Albanian government. People can try and claim whatever they believe. But on an encyclopaedic site like Wiki, it is hardly WP:RS. Whenever one writes "based on irrefutable facts and evidence", any scholar takes alarm. The very first sentence just shows this unscholarly POVHow can theories about a distant era about which we have little solid evidence be "irrefutable". The entire premise is to prove a lasting link between Dardania and Kosovo-Albanians. One that, whilst possible, would require us to forget the 1,500 years of discontinuity. Whatever the case, the matter is peripheral to the main thrust of the article anyway Hxseek (talk) 10:15, 21 October 2009 (UTC) (talk) 10:08, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

This is not the place for serbian nationalism. | GoogleBooks about the Dardanian Kingdom

i dint revert to kosovo but to present day kosovo i left your text ive removed the provocative nationalists text like "was integrated into serbian empire" etc

If you carefully read the his text he inserted in the name of MINOR CHANGE you can understand that he intentionally compromised the integrity of an article.-- LONTECH  Talk  10:24, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I have outlined my arguement. Yours, on the other hand, is non-sensical rabble filled with personal attacks (which are mis-directed, given that I am not even Serbian :) ) Unlike the alleged Dardanian-Albanian myth (see the very books you provide a link to), there is a plethora of evidence that Kosovo was part of the Serbian kingdom. Provide one scholar that denies this (even Albanian) ? Hxseek (talk) 10:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

I proved that you are lying the discussion was about the dardanian Kingdom. Dardania was conquered not integrated and the territory of Kosovo represents the core of the Dardanian territory

read the books before you come here next time to change the histroy.

| GoogleBooks about the Dardanian Kingdom -- LONTECH  Talk  10:41, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

You provide no counter-arguements, instead vear off into another topic, which - again- you are wrong about. Dardania ceased being an entity, even as a region, after Late Roman times. There was no Dardania in the 7th century, no Dardania in the 13th, no Dardania in the 21st century. Hxseek (talk) 11:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

What the hell are you talkin about. DEMAGOGY . You denied the existence of this kingdom. Now you keep me lessons about dardania.

i added this links for other editors to see his PROPAGANDA | GoogleBooks about the Dardanian Kingdom

I Call editors to revert those changes he did.-- LONTECH  Talk  12:16, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

this article, not to mention its lead, is no place to discuss patriotic antiquity frenzy. Just leave it. If you're genuinely interested in Dardania, discuss it at Talk:Dardani, but don't trouble this already busy page with it. --dab (𒁳) 13:39, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

There is very little information on anything resembling a "Dardanian kingdom" in antiquity. Any such claims smack of antiquity frenzy, as dab pointed out, and I have removed the passage about the so-called "Dardanian kingdom" as a result. For what it's worth, I think the whole paragraph about the history, beginning with the Dardanians, should be removed from the lead. It is repetitive and virtually identical with the History section. --Athenean (talk) 19:18, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Remove the paragraph and put there Serbian History.Check the books i added now i'll add at least 10-100 references about this kingdom and i'll change your revert you cant revert credible referenced text as POV because your revert is POV. Sorry but you have lack of knowledge about this Kingdom | GoogleBooks about the Dardanian Kingdom -- LONTECH  Talk  19:59, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Dab and Anthenaean. Lontech accept this and stop exclaiming racist remarks. If we accept this Dardanian kingdom, which I accept is mentioned by historians, it was (1) unstable (2) temporary and (3) lasted only during the reign of Bardyllis and his immedieate successors. So to say that during Antiquity there was a Dardanian kingdom is wrong. Antiquity is a period of one thousand years. There was no kingdom for 1, 000 years. Moreoever, your wording is non-grammatical. To say "Kosovo was the centre of Dardania" is a non-sense statement. Yu have to say something like the territory of present-day Kosovo roughly corresponds to the lands occupied by the Dardanii, if you really have to mention them. It is that simple. Stop accusing people of nationalism and accept suggestions by people who have a more technical and less abrupt (ie POV) grasp of the English language Hxseek (talk) 21:03, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

dab dont agree with you cause he reverted your disruptive nationalist vandalism edit. Athenean is greek and im not surprised with serbs, russians, or greeks statements about kosovo. You acted like Vandal you changed the 6-8 lines of referenced text under MINOR CHANGE mask and you've added disruptive text and funny terms like pe(r)turbations - with grammatical mistakes of course.

you misunderstood the term Antiquity - (Ancient times)(the people of ancient times) get a dictionary and learn whats antiquity.

more over you denied existence of this kingdom (check the revert history) now you trying to explain your demegogy.

Lack of information again:

The Dardania Kingdom managed to become a great military power during the reign of Kings Bato and Monun. Of all alliances, Dardania appeared as the main force in the Balkans.

The Dardanian Kingdom survived the Roman invasions of the 5th – 6th century.

While, the Slavic peoples, including Serbs, immigrated from the Carpates and Asia to the Balkan Peninsula between the 7th- 12th centuries. Faced with the Christian culture of the consolidated Dardanians, Slavs took almost 300 years to finish the long process of their Christianization.

...-- LONTECH  Talk  00:54, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

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