| Revision as of 12:26, 16 May 2009 editDoug Coldwell (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers70,556 edits →Conflict: Carmelite Rule of St. Albert← Previous edit | Revision as of 02:29, 6 November 2009 edit undoOttava Rima (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users20,327 edits tempNext edit → | ||
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| Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Ottava_Rima/Archive_21#Hi | |||
| Below is a list of guidelines that I have committed myself towards. I believe that each are important in order to achieve optimal effectiveness as a Wikipedian editor. Each has been separated into a section, and any visitors can comment in each one about progress or advice. I will not respond to them unless I am directly asked to, and you will have my guarantee that the words and language will not be held against you. These are not temporary, but a set of philosophical points that I feel are necessary to become a good editor. If you have any suggestions, please leave them on my talk page. - Ottava Rima | |||
| A sort list of diffs to explain the origins. Notice point six. | |||
| Moreschi's indef and a ban proposal against me: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=221464547 | |||
| ==Conflict== | |||
| In order to avoid ] problems and to work on ], I shall seek to avoid conflict whenever possible. Instead of judging others, I should focus on issues. When there is a matter that cannot be resolved quickly, I shall contact others and seek advice, especially ] and ]. I should seek to be a peacemaker, and not an instigator. I should keep my mouth shut and open up my ears more often. - Ottava Rima | |||
| I put Christopher Smart on the Freemason list per it being attested in over 10 works on Christopher Smart. It was reverted across multiple pages because MSJapan and Blueboar did not believe he was a Freemason. They claimed there would be records. After contacting the Masonic library in London and sending an email, it was revealed that many of the records at the time were lost. I also put forth a French Masonic Research Institute that did a big thing on Christopher Smart and his Masonic information. This was not enough to satisfy them, and they declared I was being "tendentious" for trying to label Smart as a Free Mason and to keep a section about Masonic images in Smart's poetry on his biography page (it was later restored there by DGG). | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *In our most recent interaction, I feel you (and I as well) escalated conflict even though my first message on your talk page () was intended to defuse it and assure you that DYK reviewers were trying to help you rather than to challenge you. Please try to keep conflict avoidance in the back of your head in the future. —] <small><sup>''']'''</sup></small>/<small><sub>''']'''</sub></small> 17:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC) | |||
| * to remind you that you should perhaps review your own philosophy more often. --] <small>]</small> 21:45, 5 January 2009 (UTC) | |||
| Bishonen takes a content dispute and begins a section calling for me to be "restrained". Many point this out. When consensus goes against her, Moreschi indefs me for "tendentious editing". Geogre and his sock puppet Utgard Loki make many attacks on me. When I apologize, it is attacked by them as being fake. | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| <div style="float:{{{float|left}}}; border:{{{border-width|1}}}px solid {{{border-color|{{{1|#000}}}}}}; margin:1px;"> | |||
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| | style="font-size:{{{info-size|8}}}pt; padding:4pt; line-height:1.25em;" | <center>This user remembers <br> building a ].</center></b> | |||
| |}</div> | |||
| ]]] | |||
| ::::::::::A ] philosophy I believe in, that goes along with this section on conflict, is that I can attract more flies with ], than with ]. A derivative of this as an application of common sense is ]. I recently took an out-of-warranty $500 television that stopped functioning back to the store I purchased it from. I explained in a calm matter-of-fact voice to the manager that even though it was out of warranty I felt the store should honor the warranty anyway. I was fully prepared to bite the bullet, since it was definitely out of warranty, but presented my case with common sense logic and reasoning - even though it was outside of the Rule of a "1 year warranty." He responded that since my reasoning made sense and I was so diplomatic about presenting my case, he would give me a full cash refund. | |||
| My next block comes 31 July 2008 by Nandesuka. Many people know that following this block, I was forced to 1. troll on commons and disrupt to draw attention away from people asking Nandesuka to be desysopped for deleting a picture and causing controversy at ANI and 2. join him and Geogre in a very long disruption campaign against Haiduc. Two of the pages were the George Gordon Byron biography and the Nicolo Giraud page. You can check the histories of both and see the dispute. You can also check various other pages (such as History of Greek Pederasty) and their talk pages for more information. This is why I was not blocked during this time. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20081014233422&limit=500&target=Nandesuka You can see a list here. | |||
| ::::::::::The common sense use of ]s seems to have the same effect as diplomacy. Giving people credit for their work goes a long ways. Sharing awards is very much appreciated. Participating in another's new article for improvements gets respect. The greatest accolade of all that one can bestow on another is to thank that person for their contributions. Examples of accolades and their effects can be shown in ].--] <sup>]</sup> 13:38, 27 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
| Why was I blocked by him? | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *''See that the bounds of common sense are not exceeded, however, for common sense is the guide of the virtues.'' - ] --] <sup>]</sup> 12:26, 16 May 2009 (UTC) | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=228991884 | |||
| ==Consensus== | |||
| In order to avoid unnecessary conflicts and fights, I will explain my position shortly and not argue with others if they disagree. If they ask questions, I shall respond politely and not judge the questioner. I should seek to be inclusion and not exclusive, and consensus involves everyone and not a majority that overruns a minority. - Ottava Rima | |||
| Ncmvocalist (notice him a bit?) kept closing a WQA and archiving it while there was no procedure to do so and no WQA clerk. Notice Risker posting at 05:57, 31 July 2008. JzG posted shortly after. | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *In your latest interactions at DYK I feel you spent time arguing with reviewers when your time could have been spent more constructively to improve the articles. —] <small><sup>''']'''</sup></small>/<small><sub>''']'''</sub></small> 17:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Next big event? http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Ludovico_Ariosto | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *''It is a thousand times better to have common sense without education than to have education without common sense.'' - quote by ] --] <sup>]</sup> 23:42, 25 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| I began working on the biography. I put forth the term "Christian epic", as it was used by multiple scholars to differentiate epics of Classical nature (Greek and Roman heros) and those involving Christian heros (St Peter appears, Jesus appears, etc). This was deemed to be a "Romantic epic" instead. I pointed out that the term would be ambiguous, as "Romantic epic" is used to denote the Romantic poets and their epics, and that "Romance Epic" was used by many critics. | |||
| ==Discussion== | |||
| In order to stay neutral and refrain from committing personal attacks, I shall speak politely, not judge other people's words harshly, assume good faith, and believe that everyone can and wants to contribute to a discussion. I shall try to keep an open ear and an open mind, and realize that my perspective is only my own, and that I should be willing to listen to others. - Ottava Rima | |||
| Notice Folantin, Akhilleus, Moreschi, and Dbachmann. | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard/Archive_10#Romance_vs_Romantic_2 | |||
| A philosophy I try to follow along the lines of discussion, as an application of ], is tactfulness. I try to follow the idea that if it is likely to be offensive, then I say nothing. ] tells me not only is silence golden, but patience is platinum. In what I have to say I try to encourage others to give a positive constructive response to the article or conversation involved. I believe if I think it through, use tact and patience, and apply common sense, that I can get many people to be on my side as long as I can prove to them the side I am on is based on common sense. Life is a lot easier when most people work with you, try to help you, and are on your side. If you can prove that you are on the side of common sense, then the efforts of others, to your benefit, increase many fold. Being on the side of common sense ] than being on the side of bureaucratic Rules & Regulations - which is not to say not to respect the Rules. | |||
| You can see them also there. There debate lasted against me until I invoked Geogre and posted there. The thing was, it was calling in my trolling for him to get them to back off. Notice how I didn't get blocked? | |||
| I believe that if I use common sense in whatever I do, it alone will be my salvation. I believe I can never be punished or judged for using common sense, no matter what I do. I know that rules and regulations are based on common sense or the lack of use thereof. Rules are not based on anything else. Customs and tradition are based on common sense. Other people's words (i.e. snipes, belittling, ridicules, personal attacks, etc.) have no bearing on me as long as I have used common sense in whatever I do. Using common sense is not stressful, but using only esoteric knowledge is. I believe common sense is a companion of wisdom and wisdom is obtained from using common sense. | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Geogre&oldid=262776596#A_request Ths what was said: "Yeah, I've got to agree with Ottava, here. I know it's niggling, but it is important to distinguish the romance epic from the Romantic epic." | |||
| If you use common sense, words come easy for what you have to say in any discussion. I believe education is based on common sense and skills are based on education. I believe skills based solely on formal education and not the application of common sense will soon lose their value. Skills based on the application of common sense have the most value and will only increase in value with usage. | |||
| That stopped them flat. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_adminship/Itsmejudith I lead consensus against Itsmejudith to push the final bit against her based on her close relationship with Moreschi and her actions at the WQA about Ludovico Ariosto. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Ottava_Rima You can see Folantin's actions there (check the history too), with edit warring, complaining, etc. I didn't realize Antandrus was a close friend with Folantin when I made this: | |||
| I believe using common sense gives one the ability to know when others are giving you good advice or bad advice. Applying common sense to good advice increases the value of the advice and all the applications related to the advice. Good advice using common sense and tact opens up friendly discussions. Friendly discussions are content related and will never be personal. Unfriendly intentions can be detected by using common sense, no matter what words are used by other’s. Common sense makes all discussions transparent. | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Antandrus/Archive31#An_Answer | |||
| I believe it is beneficial in our everyday lives, to those that are able to apply tact in discussions using common sense, of the old adage: "The meek shall inherit the earth." --] <sup>]</sup> 12:42, 28 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
| You can see where it went. But still, no blocks or anything against me. However, this summer it was revealed to me that I should look back and reanalyze Geogre and Loki's edits. Upon seeing it, I found a point where Geogre overwrote Loki's signature. I compiled a lot of evidence, took it to Coren, and he put forth the desysop motions. | |||
| ==Editing== | |||
| In order to avoid ], I shall seek to edit with others, asking them for advice, and edit when people request action or help. When information is desired, I shall try to find it and provide it in a simple, neutral manner without passing value judgments upon another. If I find myself unable to work out a situation or feel that there is a problem, I shall seek help, advice, and withdraw myself in order to stay objective and to have perspective on the matter. - Ottava Rima | |||
| I publically asked that Geogre was not to be banned. However, since all of ArbCom was informed who the offender is, one of the Arbs (cough) told what I did. I went from being someone they would leave alone and occassionally drop a small bit of support to protect in political fights back to the pariah I was. | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *A philosophy I follow along these lines is I edit in the spirit of ], because common sense is a ] to edit in. A recent example of this is ].--] <sup>]</sup> 23:03, 23 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
| Shortly after: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=18th_century&offset=20090822111219&action=history | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *A philosophy I follow along these lines is I edit in the spirit of helping others on actual constructive edits for improvements. I believe it is in ] to do ''actual'' edits within an article to expand and improve it. An example of this is ] since articles are not owned by anyone. Most editors are very appreciative of good faith actual improvements. I believe in "action speaks louder than words." An old Chinese proverb says: ''Talk doesn't cook rice.''--] <sup>]</sup> 17:43, 10 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| Openly changes a name and attacks me in edit summaries. This was a page I built most of it and I have a background in the 18th century. Her change was revealed to be a series of edit wars originally reverted by Wizardman on the Persian Empire page. http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Persian_Empire You can see how Folantin, Dbachmann, and Akhilleus appear again. Gwen Gale, one of Bishonen's friends and someone who I called out when she inappropriately blocked Malleus, blocked me. This was quickly overturned. | |||
| ==Language== | |||
| In order to show the encyclopedia and its users respect, I shall refrain from curse words, disparaging comments, and any negative characterization of edits, opinions, and other actions. I shall try to be neutral and welcoming. - Ottava Rima | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Oscar_Wilde#Maynard | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *Wow, I am so very glad to hear this. I am impressed to see that you have taken the communities concerns and listened. I really hope you stick to your word here, because I think you will come to find that you will be met with the same level of respect as you give other users. If you ever find a situation in which you need to vent, my email is always open - feel free. If there is anything else I can do to ensure this goes smoothly let me know. Cheers, ] <sup>]</sup> 01:37, 6 December 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Someone tried to make changes to what was a very minor view and post it beyond its weight. | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *''A truly elegant taste is generally accompanied with excellency of heart.'' - quote credited to ]. --] <sup>]</sup> 21:18, 5 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_44#Source_in_Oscar_Wilde | |||
| ==Respect== | |||
| In order to prove that I am here for the encyclopedia, I shall attempt to work with others, which would mean respecting their contributions. I shall praise where appropriate, thank those for their efforts no matter how small, and turn to those who have edited in the subject areas for their opinion. I shall not try to isolate myself through my words, actions, or behavior, but instead welcome others, no matter how big or small. - Ottava Rima | |||
| You can see who shows up. Paul B (in many of the above links), Itsmejudith, and Akhilleus. You can see many of the people who supported their view also appearing in recent debates. | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *Your recent comments about newer editors and the value (or lack of value) of their contributions were not respectful, and I hope you can continue to keep this goal in mind and continue working towards it. —] <small><sup>''']'''</sup></small>/<small><sub>''']'''</sub></small> 17:56, 9 December 2008 (UTC) | |||
| The next thing happened is that Lara was desysopped for aiding a sock puppet who had an admin account. I put up an RfC on Bishonen about the same basic concept in reference to Geogre. It was deleted by Moreschi, and one of Bishonen's friends Sjakkalle blocked me for it being disruptive. I was unblocked and it was restored. | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| {{quote box| | |||
| This is '''not''' a part of the English Misplaced Pages's Manual of Style, and it does not have to be followed except where ] warrants an exception. Any edits to this page does not necessarly reflect ] nor requires discussing first - ignore all the rules. Use of ] is encouraged, but is not a ]. }} | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Bishonen_4 | |||
| *Philosophies I believe in that might be associated with respect, but are not necessarily agreed upon by ]s are: | |||
| This debate was formed and involved a lot of attacks. Accusations of me "hating" Bishonen and that was why I put up the RfC were made. I asked them to strike their claims. They refused. I tried to start a WQA to have it dealt with as it was upsetting. Notice who closes that AfD. | |||
| ::The use of ] is in the spirit of ]. | |||
| http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts/archive73#Inappropriate_claims_at_MfD | |||
| ::The use of ] is in the spirit of ]. | |||
| Sarek also closed my thread at WQA. They edit warred it closed. When I complained that the one editor was on restriction by Arbcom not to make -any- disruptive edits, JohnVandenburg told me that I shouldn't complain about the guy because he put up something for me at Wikisource. I was highly offended. I have a reputation of defending people I have had fights with and for not supporting those who are my friends. I do not conform to any group or vote based on any political lines. | |||
| ::The use of ]s (an article I started) is in the spirit of ]. | |||
| ::The use of ] shows a good spirit.<font color=blue><small><sup> ] </sup></small></font color> <ref> ] </ref> | |||
| {{reflist}} | |||
| :::--] <sup>]</sup> 12:50, 26 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| Henry Fielding writes in his famous book ''Tom Jones'' that Tom is a person of high character that uses common sense with good will and compassion for others.--] <sup>]</sup> 12:38, 27 April 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ==Reverting== | |||
| In order to avoid ] and edit warring, I shall limit myself to 0RR and not directly revert anyone's actions. Instead, I will seek to discuss the matter politely and be willing to understand where the other user is coming from. - Ottava Rima | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *A handful of common sense is worth a bushel of learning. (Proverb) --] <sup>]</sup> 15:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *In any war, the first casualty is common sense, and the second is free and open discussion. - ] --] <sup>]</sup> 16:00, 25 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ==Talk page discussion== | |||
| In order to avoid ] issues, I will no longer refer to any rule violation and will not refer to any of the guidelines in a manner that calls into question another user's actions. I shall instead seek to discuss issues in a non-hostile manner and desire compromise without putting others on the defensive. - Ottava Rima | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *A philosophy I follow along these lines is I believe if I ], odds are, events will come out in my favor. ] is most important of all, even more important than ].--] <sup>]</sup> 13:07, 25 February 2009 (UTC) | |||
| ;Comments | |||
| *A philosophy I follow along these lines is I believe if I use common sense diplomacy, participate in a respectful and considerate way, and don't ignore the positions and conclusions of others, I can get ].--] <sup>]</sup> 22:43, 8 March 2009 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 02:29, 6 November 2009
Start here: http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Ottava_Rima/Archive_21#Hi
A sort list of diffs to explain the origins. Notice point six.
Moreschi's indef and a ban proposal against me: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Misplaced Pages:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=221464547
I put Christopher Smart on the Freemason list per it being attested in over 10 works on Christopher Smart. It was reverted across multiple pages because MSJapan and Blueboar did not believe he was a Freemason. They claimed there would be records. After contacting the Masonic library in London and sending an email, it was revealed that many of the records at the time were lost. I also put forth a French Masonic Research Institute that did a big thing on Christopher Smart and his Masonic information. This was not enough to satisfy them, and they declared I was being "tendentious" for trying to label Smart as a Free Mason and to keep a section about Masonic images in Smart's poetry on his biography page (it was later restored there by DGG).
Bishonen takes a content dispute and begins a section calling for me to be "restrained". Many point this out. When consensus goes against her, Moreschi indefs me for "tendentious editing". Geogre and his sock puppet Utgard Loki make many attacks on me. When I apologize, it is attacked by them as being fake.
My next block comes 31 July 2008 by Nandesuka. Many people know that following this block, I was forced to 1. troll on commons and disrupt to draw attention away from people asking Nandesuka to be desysopped for deleting a picture and causing controversy at ANI and 2. join him and Geogre in a very long disruption campaign against Haiduc. Two of the pages were the George Gordon Byron biography and the Nicolo Giraud page. You can check the histories of both and see the dispute. You can also check various other pages (such as History of Greek Pederasty) and their talk pages for more information. This is why I was not blocked during this time. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Special:Contributions&offset=20081014233422&limit=500&target=Nandesuka You can see a list here.
Why was I blocked by him?
Ncmvocalist (notice him a bit?) kept closing a WQA and archiving it while there was no procedure to do so and no WQA clerk. Notice Risker posting at 05:57, 31 July 2008. JzG posted shortly after.
Next big event? http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Ludovico_Ariosto
I began working on the biography. I put forth the term "Christian epic", as it was used by multiple scholars to differentiate epics of Classical nature (Greek and Roman heros) and those involving Christian heros (St Peter appears, Jesus appears, etc). This was deemed to be a "Romantic epic" instead. I pointed out that the term would be ambiguous, as "Romantic epic" is used to denote the Romantic poets and their epics, and that "Romance Epic" was used by many critics.
Notice Folantin, Akhilleus, Moreschi, and Dbachmann.
http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Fringe_theories/Noticeboard/Archive_10#Romance_vs_Romantic_2
You can see them also there. There debate lasted against me until I invoked Geogre and posted there. The thing was, it was calling in my trolling for him to get them to back off. Notice how I didn't get blocked?
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Geogre&oldid=262776596#A_request Ths what was said: "Yeah, I've got to agree with Ottava, here. I know it's niggling, but it is important to distinguish the romance epic from the Romantic epic."
That stopped them flat. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_adminship/Itsmejudith I lead consensus against Itsmejudith to push the final bit against her based on her close relationship with Moreschi and her actions at the WQA about Ludovico Ariosto. http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Ottava_Rima You can see Folantin's actions there (check the history too), with edit warring, complaining, etc. I didn't realize Antandrus was a close friend with Folantin when I made this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Antandrus/Archive31#An_Answer
You can see where it went. But still, no blocks or anything against me. However, this summer it was revealed to me that I should look back and reanalyze Geogre and Loki's edits. Upon seeing it, I found a point where Geogre overwrote Loki's signature. I compiled a lot of evidence, took it to Coren, and he put forth the desysop motions.
I publically asked that Geogre was not to be banned. However, since all of ArbCom was informed who the offender is, one of the Arbs (cough) told what I did. I went from being someone they would leave alone and occassionally drop a small bit of support to protect in political fights back to the pariah I was.
Shortly after: http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=18th_century&offset=20090822111219&action=history
Openly changes a name and attacks me in edit summaries. This was a page I built most of it and I have a background in the 18th century. Her change was revealed to be a series of edit wars originally reverted by Wizardman on the Persian Empire page. http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Persian_Empire You can see how Folantin, Dbachmann, and Akhilleus appear again. Gwen Gale, one of Bishonen's friends and someone who I called out when she inappropriately blocked Malleus, blocked me. This was quickly overturned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Oscar_Wilde#Maynard
Someone tried to make changes to what was a very minor view and post it beyond its weight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_44#Source_in_Oscar_Wilde
You can see who shows up. Paul B (in many of the above links), Itsmejudith, and Akhilleus. You can see many of the people who supported their view also appearing in recent debates.
The next thing happened is that Lara was desysopped for aiding a sock puppet who had an admin account. I put up an RfC on Bishonen about the same basic concept in reference to Geogre. It was deleted by Moreschi, and one of Bishonen's friends Sjakkalle blocked me for it being disruptive. I was unblocked and it was restored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Bishonen_4
This debate was formed and involved a lot of attacks. Accusations of me "hating" Bishonen and that was why I put up the RfC were made. I asked them to strike their claims. They refused. I tried to start a WQA to have it dealt with as it was upsetting. Notice who closes that AfD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts/archive73#Inappropriate_claims_at_MfD
Sarek also closed my thread at WQA. They edit warred it closed. When I complained that the one editor was on restriction by Arbcom not to make -any- disruptive edits, JohnVandenburg told me that I shouldn't complain about the guy because he put up something for me at Wikisource. I was highly offended. I have a reputation of defending people I have had fights with and for not supporting those who are my friends. I do not conform to any group or vote based on any political lines.