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feloniousmonk

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How many forks?

You were wondering.. I took a casual glance through a couple weeks of time and have found 9 "spin-off articles" so far, all being overwhelmingly labelled "POV forks" on Afd. I'm pretty sure I recall some from weeks past, too, although I haven't put them on my list yet. I've brought this up to Ed on his talk page now a few times and tried to get him to stop, but he doesn't seem responsive to reasoning. Friday (talk) 19:30, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Jayjg and Marsden

Needless to say I appreciate your principled stand. I also appreciate your reverting Marsden's revert of my edit. But just so you know, to follow through I did restore Marsden's comment on the talk page. I am deeply upset by some of the things he wrote, but it was not my intention to censor him. In any event, thanks, Slrubenstein | Talk 05:39, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

"Deeply upset?" By what, SLR? I don't think anything I wrote was even interesting enough to be upset over. Marsden 14:55, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I noticed this too, but I feel that it's up to Marsden to readd his comments to TALK, since he removed them from there himself. His so-called "question" was properly removed from the project page as disruption. That he chose to remove it from TALK is his problem, SLR, not yours. Tomer 07:14, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Could you please tell me why on earth you think that the question I reversed constitutes a "personal attack"? I must confess I thought Marsden was, well, a bit <deleted...> going on and on and on about whether Jay was payed or not for his WP-work; but now I honestly don´t know. The way this question is beeing censored (and Jay not answering.....) makes me really wonder if perhaps it´s actually me who has been naive? And so many people have seen the question by now: I´m not the only person waiting for Jay´s answer. (And if he doesn´t answer: well, people will ofcourse draw their own conclusions.) Regards, Huldra 08:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

PS, I note a great difference between "personal attack" and "personal attack" on WP: in this case: (which IMO is far worse than any personal attack Marsed got blocked for) the user got a "friendly reminder regarding civility". Sigh.

Well, I'd start here: Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee_Elections_December_2005/Candidate_statements/Jayjg but you probably want to go to sleep at some point tonight... What constiutes a legitimate personal attack is pretty well defined at WP:NPA though I will admit that there are looser definitions that convention recognizes beyond policy, none of which were relied upon in Marsden's case. He was sufficiently aware and warned that a large segment of the community did not approve of his actions. FeloniousMonk 09:00, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Huldra, if you're sincerely asking about this, and not just trolling, I have to assume you're unfamiliar with Marsden's activities. Please review this article, and, unless you're prejudiced regarding Marsden's activities, you'll recognize that the questions you're characterizing as legitimate are, in fact, a directed attack against the candidate rather than a legitimate question. The question is meant to instill doubt in potential voters' minds, rather than to legitimately illicit a response. Jayjg's refusal to respond is not evidence of "guilt" vis-à-vis the purported "good-faith" question, but rather evidence of his abiding by the advice he so often gives to people being attacked by trolls: namely, that the best response to a troll is to not feed them. When it comes to internet trolls, the conventional wisdom is that it is pointless to respond to them, especially when you're the party being attacked. Jayjg has ample grounds to regard Marsden's comments and questions regarding/questioning him as indubitably trollish, and so, he'd be verging on hypocritical to respond to the accusations themselves. That said, there is pretty much no merit whatsoever in the question Marsden insists on asking. Not only are the statistics inaccurate (intentionally), but the question is worded as an insinuation of guilt of a violation of a non-existent policy. That you regard Marsden's persistence in this thinly-veiled personal attack (insinuating some kind of Zionist-cabal running WP), does not speak well for you either, Huldra, not, I'm sure, that you're particularly bothered by that fact, but there it is... Tomer 09:31, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Uh, Tomer, we could review the underlying facts for my statistics, and see exactly how accurate they are. And "insinuating some kind of Zionist-cabal running WP?" I don't even think that's true (the ArbCom's recent homage to facts not in evidence notwithstanding). Just a group of dedicate editors coordinating their POV-pushing. Marsden 14:55, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Huldra, I think Tomer and FeloniousMonk have provided you with a thorough and more than edequate explanation of why Marsden's comment is a personal attack. Most lon-time editors here have no question about this, so I ask a favor of you: if you think the Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks does not cover the points Tomer and Felonious Monk have made, explain to us in what way that policy page is unclear, so we canmake it clearer. As a matter of fact, I would ask Felonious Monk and Tomer to look at the NPA page and see if, based on this specific example, there are elements of that page that could be clarified or elaborated. That said, Huldra, if you are stillnot convinced contact me and I will give you more reasons. Slrubenstein | Talk 19:25, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm ... "if you think the Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks does not cover the points Tomer and Felonious Monk have made, explain to us in what way that policy page is unclear, so we canmake it clearer." In other words, if you think no rule has been broken, no worries: we'll make another rule. Are you related to the Slrubinstein who used the word "principled" in a comment above? Marsden 14:55, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Yay! I passed! And you helped! :-D

Hey FeloniousMonk! Thanks for your support on my RfA. The final outcome was (57/4/3), so I am now an administrator. If you need help, have a question, or just want to chat (or if I get out of line!), please don't hesitate to let me know! Again, thanks! :D

Benapgar

I don't know enough about Benapgar's editing history or temperment to really know, but — this is really just from looking at his talk page after his block — I think for now it would be better to let him say what he wants on his talk page (within limits, of course - but continuing to call people liars and trolls is probably not doing anybody but himself more harm). I don't think increasing his block does anything but escalate the situation right now. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:16, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Well, Ryan Delaney extended it to a week in any case. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 16:31, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Intelligent design movement

Hi David. Seeing your edits at Intelligent design movement and remembering our debate on the issue at Talk:Intelligent design, I think we settled on intelligent design not being capitalized, as it's not a proper noun. That's why I standardized to the lowercase usage in the Intelligent design movement article. Agree? FeloniousMonk 19:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Hello. I'm not sure if a consensus to use lowercase was (or has) been reached, but I don't mind. Looking at the past hour's history, I apologise in case my most recent edit appears to revert yours; I was called away, returned much later than expected and forget to check if anyone else had contributed in the meantime before submitting my revision. Oops.

Thank you for mentioning your approval of my other contributions; I hope a few extra wikilinks and the like might make the article more straightforward for less US-savvy (pardon, U.S.-savvy!) readers. At some point I intend to return to review the other sections in similar vein – and also the main Intelligent design article.

Thanks and best wishes, David Kernow 20:12, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

pre-stub sections

You might want to consider commenting them out, so that someone who chose to edit the page might see them, but not readers. This way, if someone chooses to re-add them without looking at edit summaries or the talk page, they'll be able to see that they are there, just awaiting content (if someone chooses to revert the page, then they'd see your edit summary). Just thinking this might be a way to head off potential conflict. Guettarda 17:08, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Marshill

why did you remove my throrough list of objections from the ID talk page? Who is going to read my objections when there is no link to it? Why do you want to silence me? Marshill 20:34, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that User:Markepp, who just voted in the straw poll on User:Marshill's ID subpage might be a Misplaced Pages:Sock puppet. Since you are an admin frequenting the ID pages, I was wondering if you would look into it for me? I have no knowledge about this sort of thing, but some clues are there (I think). -Parallel or Together? 07:21, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I'd be very disappointed if that turns out to be the case. I'll look into it. FeloniousMonk 07:23, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Tom Haws and the ID thingie

FM, somebody invited me to have a look at the ID poll underway. How scary! It's rather tough to walk up to a something like that and make sense of it all, though as you saw I took a look at the article itself a while back and tried to make a sensible comment on it all. The article fails to be a high-quality explanation of what ID is all about, and I personally think it fails from the first sentence to capture the essence of ID, at least from what I know. But I don't know that it violates NPOV. What's a guy to do? Tom Haws 19:34, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Tom, good to hear from you. I think your frustration accurately reflects the issue here; since ID is such a contentious topic, the article relies almost exclusively on attributions to significant statements rather than descriptive text.

So, what's a guy to do? I'd say make your case for specific changes one at a time on the talk page.Locate and provide support for your changes with credible and significant attributions per the guidelines. Knowing you, I know that you can do a good job of presenting the ID perspective in a factual, dispassionate way. Stick around. FeloniousMonk 19:48, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Archive No overhead needed.

Thanks, I was using the move function and was working it out. :) --DocJohnny 20:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Reading the "Portraying intelligent design as science" section, I see it lacks the ID viewpoint on specific points as to why ID qualifies as science. Here are the points. We need one or two sentences on each, with a link to a cite:

1. intelligent design is externally consistent
2. intelligent design is parsimonious
3. intelligent design is falsifiable
4. intelligent design is empirically testable
5. intelligent design is correctable, dynamic, tentative or progressive

Who wants to write these and has citable support with links handy? FeloniousMonk 22:09, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Ouch! Lol. As Mister Burns would say, "Exssssscellent!" --DocJohnny 01:43, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

"claims"

Thanks for converting the "claims" in the ID article. I was going to do that myself, and just saw that you already did it. IMO, it makes the article sound much better. Kindly, David Bergan 05:09, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Anonymous Vandalism Notice

Please look into anonymous vandalism by IP 134.117.196.101: Larvatus 21:38, 19 December 2005 (UTC)larvatus

Bill Gothard

First, I noticed you know how to archive your talk page. It's odd that you would write on CDThieme's talk page that he should just blank it whenever he wants, ignoring and deleting other people's messages.

How can you say that I'm bowdlerizing Bill Gothard? I haven't deleted the information. All I did was scale it back. Everything can be summed up quite nicely and with nPOV in mind by the way I wrote it. --Jason Gastrich 07:33, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Heya

I've done another change to Intelligent design, and moved general criticism to be under ID debate. What do you think? - Ta bu shi da yu 02:44, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm... possibly. Right now I'm just looking at stuff that should go together. Right now the structure seems to me to be all over the place... - Ta bu shi da yu 02:50, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Ya. I've just been reverted. Any chance of assistance here? Just a comment on the talk page would be OK. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:54, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

footnotes

Thanks for cleaning up after me when I moved things around. I remembered to fix the notes the first time I messed with them, but not the second. I'll try to do better.

Thanks for all your hard work, Dave (talk) 23:46, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages takes way too much time for my fall schedule. I may stay depending on how heavy my workload is next semester. Dave (talk) 23:48, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

I just wanted to wish you a Merry Christmas, all the best for the holidays. It's been fun working with you thelast couple of months, and I look forward to facing new trolls in the New Year. Guettarda 14:58, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Mediator response: Faith and rationality

I have to admit that I endorse Sarek's view. There is nothing objectionable in there. Like other user said it seems a pretty balanced statement of the subject.

Don't put the neutrality dispute tag on the page, you may have your discussion about the things that are POV also on talk page. Bonaparte talk 15:34, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

My god you stopped the maddness

This is my sockpuppet, my real name is travb. The reverts and vandlism got so bad I decided to log off and use an anon, otherwise I could not make a plea for help.

Here is a list of what petral did, toward the end he was deleting everything I wrote, including stuff on my own talk page.Travb

Here is the list, it gets worse as you go down:

• Considering that Petral joined wikipedia today , I would be interested to know how he/she found this article and mastered the AfD process?
• What user name did Petral use to learn how to master the AfD process? And is he using this user name to vote on this page's deletion?
• Why did Petral delete my notice on the deletion page that the article name had moved?
• Why did Petral, instead of accusing me of hiding the page after he deleted this notice, why didn't he simply move the page himself?
• Why does Petral keep reformating my statements on the deletion page when I asked him to stop? (including on my own talk page?)
• Why does Petral keep deleting my statments on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Secret plan and Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Promises of troop withdraw by American presidents throughout history?
• Why does Petral delete statements from my own talk page?
• Why does Petral delete my statements from Misplaced Pages:Vandalism in progress/RU Moderate
• Why does Petral accuse me of doing something that I never did, saying that I tried to move the article to Category:NPOV disputes?

Summary deletion alert

Please take a look at a summary deletion executed by your fellow admin: . It appears to run contrary to stated Misplaced Pages policy. Larvatus 17:28, 23 December 2005 (UTC)larvatus

Notice of Abuse of Deletion Protocol

Thank you for attending to the previous notice of irregularity. Please take a look at the extraordilarily prolonged poll on deleting the articles for Larvatus. While the results registered within the standard five day period tally up in favor of keeping this article, a more recent flurry of votes for deleting it appears to have been coordinated with a personal vendetta conducted by your fellow admin, singling out nearly all aspects of my editorial contribution to, and commemoration by, Misplaced Pages. Larvatus 22:02, 23 December 2005 (UTC)larvatus

Your accusations

There is nothing abusive about making a (disputable) call in discounting obvious and blatant meatpuppets or filing a good-faith RFC or making good-faith AFD nominations (all three nominations, I note, are being supported by a clear consensus.) If you have an issue with my conduct, I invite you to follow procedures and open an RFC. FCYTravis 03:27, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Opening an RFC would be something for User:Larvatus to do in this case, being the sole target of your recent actions for a number of days now. Were Larvatus to feel bullied enough by your multiple dubious AFDs and RFC against him and decide to invite community comment on your activities as they relate to him, I'd certainly voice my concerns there. FeloniousMonk 03:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

You have absolutely no standing to arbitrarily delist the valid and good-faith AFDs I opened on Erin Zhu, Scott Sandell and Subrah Iyar. That is a clear abuse of the deletion process and you will have an RFC filed against you if you do so. FCYTravis 03:37, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

It wasn't arbitrary. I not only have a right, but a responsibility to delist AFDs that I feel are relisted in bad faith soley to harass a single editor. Each of those articles is a product of User:Larvatus, who has expressed concern to me that you have singled him out and are bullying him by abusing Misplaced Pages processes like AFD and RFC. Looking over your recent history, I have to agree. I suggest you lay off AFDing Larvatus-related articles until this is settled. You'll find I don't respond well to threats, particularly ones coming from someone accused of bullying others. FeloniousMonk 03:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Accused of bullying by... you, and a user who I believe to be pushing a POV. I hardly consider those accusation founded in any sort of facts. You have yet to express any motive for this alleged "bullying" - Why would I care, except that I believe his insertions are damaging the encyclopedia? Your suggestions of "abuse" are ludicrous. It is hardly an abuse of Misplaced Pages processes to open an RFC on an issue that deserves notice, and if necessary I will file an RFAr on the issue to get a final determination. That is the very purpose of those processes, and it is out of order for you to suggest that engaging in the proper Misplaced Pages dispute resolution processes is in any way abusive. FCYTravis 03:53, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Larvatus' concerns seem to be justified by your history of AFD'ing each of his articles. If are not abusing process to harass that particular editor then you have nothing to worry about. But it, on the other hand, you are overly focusing on Larvatus and using process to exclude his participation at the project and to remove content you personally find distasteful, then that will become more apparent moving forward. Either way it will all come out in the end. FeloniousMonk 05:27, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

His articles were AfDed after I began looking into what I believe is a campaign of POV-pushing, and are part of my response to that campaign. All three are currently receiving a consensus to delete as unencyclopedic. You've yet to explain why I would possibly find anything "personally distasteful," or, if I wanted to "exclude his participation from the project," why I haven't so much as looked at his contributions to philosophy, etc. related articles. I'm sure he has the ability to contribute usefully on many subjects but I am strongly questioning his ability to objectively consider his own involvement in this apparent legal case and its treatment on Misplaced Pages. FCYTravis 05:56, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I see a pattern in the participation on those AFDs and your RFC. If true, that goes straight to the basis of the claim of harassment by you that was made. This situation bears watching. FeloniousMonk 06:02, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

A pattern of... what, finding, reverting and nominating unencyclopedic material for deletion? That's not harassment, that's good editing. Harassment would be following him around, reverting every single thing he's doing, attacking him on his talk page, blocking him, etc. I have done none of that. All I have done is work within channels to solve what I see as a problem. He has some good contributions (Mathematician manqué, for one), and unfortunately ones that I (and others) think are not so good. FCYTravis 06:05, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Harassment comprises a broad spectrum of activities, some more subtle than others. Harassment can and does often take the form of abuse of process and vexatious litigation. I genuinely hope that is not the case here. FeloniousMonk 06:22, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Seems to me that you're failing to assume good faith, in that you've yet to come up with a single plausible reason that I would be interested in spending hours upon hours to unjustly harass this person. You could assume that I'm just here to piss someone off - an assumption not supported by anything I've ever done on Misplaced Pages... or you could assume that I'm here to correct what I see - rightly or wrongly - as an issue with a user's ability to objectively edit articles on persons he has been involved in legal action and romantic difficulties with. Up to you to decide. FCYTravis 06:37, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Kindly apply your reasoning at home as regards assuming good faith. Assuming that you are not paid to assume the contrary. As you say, up to us to decide. Larvatus 06:43, 24 December 2005 (UTC)larvatus

Questions

I have some questions relating to the Larvatus RfC, you may be able to answer them. See Misplaced Pages talk:Requests for comment/Larvatus#Cross-claim. --bainer (talk) 04:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Done. Please see my response.Larvatus 06:43, 24 December 2005 (UTC)larvatus