Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 20:45, 17 November 2009

Biography: Arts and Entertainment B‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group.

Korea B‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Korea, a collaborative effort to build and improve articles related to Korea. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how use this banner, please refer to the documentation.KoreaWikipedia:WikiProject KoreaTemplate:WikiProject KoreaKorea-related B This article has been rated as B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Korean popular culture working group.

Citing and article language

When references are used more than once, they are given a "ref name=article name" so that they are displayed up as "a,b,c ARTICLE" in the reference section to show that the same reference is being used more than once. Do not continue to revert to the improper style. Also, article needs more references to cite statements per guidelines WP:CITE. There are various usage of peacock words, especially in the opening paragraph. Please find reliable sources to back such statements. If you wish to remove the templates, find more sources and correct the language. Cheers, oncamera 03:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

I read citations and fixed a few things but they are named now. This article has enough references for it not to be tagged as such. If you want to add more references by all means go ahead. Look at how many refs are in this article in comparison to other articles and they do not have a citation tag at the top.

As for twitter. It says "normally" but I've seen a lot of Wiki articles with Cyworld links as well so should those not be added either. How do find out a twitter account is verified? And I know his Twitter account is verified because I am a mod to a fan club of his so I know this information. Proof: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Colleen16 (talk) 04:21, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

The peacock thing, I did put links in the intro before but I removed them and placed them in the biography instead, because they were the same links as in the biography. I didn't want duplicate links in the intro. And like I said before those citation/reference tags should only be placed on article with less than 35 citations. This article doesn't qualify for such a tag. Colleen16 (talk) 04:25, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

No, it needs more references! In the section "Dispute With Mentor Entertainment" every sentence should have a reference. "Fan Meetings and Concerts" No references at all. "Sawasdee Khrab Photobook" Only has one reference. Etc, etc. You need references for each statement. Look at the length of this article; why doesn't it have more references? See an article like TVXQ for further example.

As for peacock words, verify claims such as: "As of 2007, Lee is one of the top screen stars in South Korea. Lee also became quite popular for his noble role as Ryung in the 2008 action, romance drama Iljimae" in the opening. How do we know he's "quite popular" and is a "top star" in South Korea? Find different statements that aren't opinions or find a way to verify those claims.

His twitter is irrelevant to this article. TWITTER has NOT even verified his account. Anyone could be masquerading in it; forum posts and blog posts are not reliable sources. Also, the account isn't active and has little significance, so why should it be allowed to break the WP:ELNO guideline? It shouldn't. If you would like, we can go about removing Cyworld links too.

Finally, I suggest rather than remove content you simply disagree with, you can work on improving the article. Check out WP:Ownership.

oncamera 14:06, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Colleen, why do you keep removing the Intersections link? It's a peer-reviewed journal article (a reliable source) about cute South Korean men which mentions Lee Jun Ki. --Malkinann (talk) 10:11, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I placed a link to that topic. It's in the Biography section, 2 paragraph, last few sentences the 8th link is the reference to it. I also didn't think it should be mentioned in the intro because it sounds so inappropriate. I'll put you link there, right next to the words 'pretty boy' is that alright? Colleen16 (talk) 10:19, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

If you feel it's inappropriate in the lead, the mention and the reference can be moved to a better point later in the article. --Malkinann (talk) 10:26, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

It's not that feels that way but the actor himself. He has mentioned in the news and articles that he's tired of hearing that name being said in his name so that's why. Don't ask how I know these things, I'm apart of one of his fan clubs so get info. Anyway's I moved it down to the section I mentioned. It's beside "pretty boy image". Colleen16 (talk) 10:33, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

But the information the reference is beside doesn't actually appear in the Intersections article. :( --Malkinann (talk) 10:35, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't have to you know. The area that it is in is still similar to the content in your article isn't it? They both talk about his pretty boy image in the same movie. Colleen16 (talk) 10:40, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Um, no - when inline citations are used, an inline citation absolutely does have to be next to the content from that source. WP:CITE can tell you more about why this is important. --Malkinann (talk) 10:46, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah...what section am I reading Malkinann? Colleen16 (talk) 10:54, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Of WP:CITE? Misplaced Pages:Citing_sources#Inline_citations - "An inline citation should appear next to material that it supports". Doing this also helps the verifiability of the article, by making it easy for people to check what information came from which source. --Malkinann (talk) 11:09, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Intro, sections, etc

I removed certain information from the intro because I thought it sounded too much like an opinion, not a fact, and could not be reliably sourced. I also moved the information about his language skills and martial arts abilities further down since he is not really known for these things. Since the article is being more sourced, I will suggest using a Reference maker to make the references uniformed throughout the article. I will start moving the current references to this system. One final thing, I think his Biography section is a little long and could use more HEADERS to divide the article into a more organized manner. Once again, I removed the Twitter account because it hasn't been verified nor is it significant. Just because a certain editor here thinks they know everything being a fanclub member doesn't mean Misplaced Pages will accept that sort of of verification. Thanks, oncamera 16:30, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I went through copyedited, reformatted references, added fact/citation needed to places that should be sourced. Also removed/replaced references that cited blogs per WP:V. Removed "Fan Meetings and Concerts, Sawasdee Khrab Photobook" sections because they aren't significant and really only matter to a small percentage of people aka "Fancruft is a term sometimes used in Misplaced Pages to imply that a selection of content is of importance only to a small population of enthusiastic fans of the subject in question" via WP:Fancruft. If there was anything other editors find was important from those section, please find a way to write it into other parts of the articles. Those two sections should not go into such details as they are almost longer than his Career section. oncamera 18:59, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Because Lee Jun Ki is a living person, we have to get the article right, for his protection. --Malkinann (talk) 20:49, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Complete Redundant Change of the Article

I understand that you guys want to add things and I also know I don't own the article. I am usually not like that but I have been contributing majorly to this article and to have random editors just suddenly pop up and completely change the article was just inappropriately striking. JKSarang has also contributed greatly to this article and no one had a single problem with the edits up until now. I don't mind adding maintenance tags and I don't mind adding information and so forth. But what you guys did was wrong. You should have consulted myself, JKSarang or any other major contributor first. Put yourselves in my or our shoes. How would you feel if you had an article that you edited for quite sometime and took pride in and random editors popped up out of nowhere and changed over your entire article, your favourite article I might add. I am trying to follow the rules but if you are going to be difficult then I would like my contributions removed and JKSarang said the same thing. We have actually given this article more than just words, meaning photos as well. We, well JKSarang has connections and asked some of our groups members, also outsiders to contribute to this article. Now I am willing to come up with some sort of an agreement with you all, because right now you have turned it back into how it used to be, very scattered and with less information. I was willing to take the time to find all the references for Ophois until I saw this huge unnecessary change. To me the previous version of the article was a lot neater with not so many sections. It seemed to me that JKSarang sectioned off those parts for a specific reasons. Before I said okay fine let them add those maintenance tags but you have taken it too far this time. So if you have suggestions push them this way, okay. But for now I honestly think that the article should be reverted back to it's previous state and then you can add what you think is needed to be added. Misplaced Pages is almost free, right. We all have our opinions so lets discuss and come to an agreement. I have already stated mine so now lets hear yours. Colleen16 (talk) 17:54, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

If they removed uncited information, then they were following policy. The editors listed their reasons above, and their reasons were not "redundant". They were following policy. No offense, but if you want to create your own article and not have to adhere to policy or others' opinions, then I would suggest creating a fansite. Also, their actions don't permanently remove anything. If you find proper references for the uncited information, then add it back. However, while I agree that some removed sections do qualify as Misplaced Pages:Fancruft, I think the sections can be trimmed down a lot and integrated into other sections. Ωphois 18:12, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Ophois that's not the point I am making it is called "common courtesy". You don't edit a majority of what other people have edited especially since you aren't a major contributor to the article because there wasn't anything wrong with the original style of the article in the previous version. You can't edit whatever you want to because there are editors before you that have contributed a lot. That's what I am trying to explain to you. The article didn't entirely need to change. And I am a part of a fan site, his. Colleen16 (talk) 19:25, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Ophois. The sections I removed were qualifying as fancruft. I explained my actions before I made them in the sections above. This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons guidelines. If you don't like your edits being removed or edited, then don't edit Misplaced Pages. All of us should understand that basic concept of this place; it says that directly underneath the "Save page" button when one is making edits: If you do not want your writing to be edited, used, and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here. Some "recent" editors working on this article have experience with writing a GA-class and we understand the policies; take a look at an Good Article like Brad Pitt if you need an example of what every article might be. You should be glad that experienced editors are willing to help combine your work into a feasible manner that works with the policies. Thank you for your efforts in adding pictures, but some failed because of copyright violations and Misplaced Pages will adhere to those policies. Either way, I will find it unacceptable to revert this article back to the former version. If there is information in that other section that isn't fancruft, source it using verifiable means and find a place for it in the other sections. oncamera 19:28, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

You see you still aren't understanding me. I am not talking about policies I am talking about manners. Yes you must follow the rules but do the rules say that you should change an entire article to your liking. I can tell because not all articles on Misplaced Pages look the same. And OnCamera you did most of the changes. If you wanted to add references then add them don't take out important information because it isn't referenced. You completely changed the style of the article and nothing called for that. You are suppose to add and fix not remove. Colleen16 (talk) 19:33, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

You are suppose to add and fix not remove Where does it say my edits should be that way? don't take out important information because it isn't referenced. If there is information in that other section that isn't fancruft, source it using verifiable means and find a place for it in the other sections. If it's important, it should be easy. Try to listen to what we're saying; we just keep repeating everything... guidelines and policies exist for a very good reason. Also, why aren't you editing with your main account? oncamera 19:42, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Some "recent" editors working on this article have experience with writing a GA-class and we understand the policies; take a look at an Good Article like Brad Pitt if you need an example of what every article might be. You should be glad that experienced editors are willing to help combine your work into a feasible manner that works with the policies. Not all articles have to have the exact same section titles hencean example of what every article might be. Example meaning not exactly the same. And I am glad that we have experienced editors but if you edit everything how am I suppose to learn. And I noticed you placed the words to help but you didn't help you took over. Thank you for your efforts in adding pictures, but some failed because of copyright violations and Misplaced Pages will adhere to those policies. What does this mean OnCamera? To me it seems like your patronizing me. There isn't anything wrong with the photos. I didn't upload them under my name. It's just that editors have something against me to what it is I don't know, "bad history" I guess. I am being nice and you are using a rude tone in which this discussion doesn't call for. Colleen16 (talk) 20:24, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Mediation?

As an outsider to this dispute, I suggest that mediation might be useful here. LadyofShalott 19:46, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I think a request for comment might be actually the better decision. oncamera 19:55, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

JKSarang spoke to an admin Phantomsteve and they said both versions were fine. But I think that what you did was ethically wrong. You aren't a major contributor to the article, OnCamera began editing October 2009, I began before that (check the history) and have kept up the article in good condition thus it should not have been changed to this extreme. You should have consulted one of the contributing editors of the article because they've worked hard on it. That's my point. It doesn't mean that you can't edit the article guys. In fact I would like help in learning the guidelines here. Colleen16 (talk) 20:05, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

I edited this article for the first time at 12:09, February 7, 2007 per this edit. Talking to an admin who hasn't edited this article makes your argument invalid. If you want to learn about the guidelines, then what about the links we have been posting over and over? oncamera 20:14, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Ah ha, since 2007, then once in 2008, still not much in contributions and you dropped it for a year and a half. Even if the admin hasn't edited the article it doesn't matter they are still admin. As for the links I try to read through them but it's so hard to go through it. I'd rather be linked to the exact section/topic mentioned. Reading through these instructions make me dizzy, literally. I am trying though. Colleen16 (talk) 20:45, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

JKSarang is blocked right now and cannot communicate with other users, and there is no admin by that name. Ωphois 20:16, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

User:Phantomsteve's page says he is a rollbacker, not that he's an admin. Anyway, why are people arguing in this section? It was intended to be a way to deescalate the tension here. BTW, I think a RfC is a reasonable suggestion, and probably a good step to take before going to what I suggested. LadyofShalott 20:23, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

You can ask JK when they come on Ophois. Fine we can try the RFC LadyofShalott. Nice name by the way I like it. Colleen16 (talk) 20:27, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

• B-Class biography articles
• B-Class biography (arts and entertainment) articles
• Unknown-importance biography (arts and entertainment) articles
• Arts and entertainment work group articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• B-Class Korea-related articles
• Unknown-importance Korea-related articles
• WikiProject Korea popular culture working group
• WikiProject Korea articles