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Revision as of 18:04, 7 December 2009

Status: Unknown

Ladies and gentleman, for good humor, we have here a "NPOV Dispute Skeptic" this xxx editor has no place in a NPOV discussion, they do not meet the NPOV qualifications. By decree, they must edit elsewhere.

— Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 05:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC), The Article NPOV Commission

My editing occasionally suffers from transpositions transportation and typos. I apologize if I have confused you. Please let me know if you suspect this to be an issue.

ZuluPapa5

Welcome!

Hello, ZuluPapa5! Welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions to this 💕. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Gimme danger (talk) 17:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Misplaced Pages:Template_messages/User_talk_namespace Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Misplaced Pages is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Characterizing Uncertainty in Climate Assessment

Just wanted to let you know that Misplaced Pages cannot include copyrighted material. If you want to write a proper article you can do so, but verbatim copying isn't appropriate (or legal). Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 16:14, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Please read WP:copyvio and WP:NPA. Vsmith (talk) 16:53, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

I hear you, it was fair use, changed some and on the way to being better.Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 04:36, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Boris, I've heard your call to create other lists and public opinion articles. I don't believe any wiki article should be based on solely on a categorical opinion. My intreste are in creating a Characterizing Uncertainty article, focused on the most significant scientific event in human history. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 19:13, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Refactoring and removal

Re . Please learn to distinguish refactoring (which is somewhere between frowned upon and forbidden, for talk page comments) and removal (which is permitted) William M. Connolley (talk) 22:32, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

Your point taken, thanks. My point was about fairness and . Got to break now. Be well. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 22:45, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

3RR warning

Your recent editing history at Scientific opinion on climate change shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.

You get the warning because i can't see such a notification on your talk, and because you are at 3RR on sci op cc. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 07:06, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Cooling off ... from my attempts to defend a NPOV. If the POV-tag is being early reverted before talk, that is a valid indication the article has POV issues. Regards, Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 15:43, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

No, actually its an indication that you haven't been able to convince people that your viewpoint is correct. Tags are there to be used when you have actually identified issues on talk (which you still haven't imho), they are not to be used as leverage to getting your will. (as it appears as if you do). --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 16:01, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, it indicated a fierce defense to a POV. Unless you are in denial, the whole talk page is filed with a POV dispute. Get real. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 18:16, 1 December 2009 (UTC)

Template:Z9

Admin Tedder corrupted the NPOV resolution process. The tag belongs in a state of on during a NPOV dispute. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 21:38, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm bemused about this whole "corruption" business. Here's the thing- either take it to WP:ANI or leave it alone. If you'd like to take it to ANI, and will not edit war with the {{npov}} tag on Scientific opinion on climate change‎, I'd be happy to unblock you personally. If, however, you intend on edit warring about the NPOV tag and disruptively screaming "corruption" on various inappropriate talk pages, the block should stand. tedder (talk) 21:48, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Tedder ... ANI need not be bothered now by a valid POV dispute which you are in denial of. The suggested resolution paths is to leave the POV-tag on, declare your WP:COI. I pray you seriously reconsider your actions. Good faith to NPOV will be looked upon favorably. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 22:10, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi Zulu Papa. Just to clarify on the three-revert rule - it's beside the point as to whether the tag is justified or not. The point of the three-revert rule is to prevent edit-warring. If you believe that the tag belongs, and other editors disagree with you, the place to solve the problem is on the article's talk page. The three-revert rule exists to prevent edit-warring, it exists to force people to seek alternate means of dispute resolution. Blocks are appropriate if people continue to edit war. If you believe this block is improper, you need to address the issue of edit warring. Guettarda (talk) 00:10, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

ZuluPapa5 (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

This 3RR block for my POV Tag addition is not necessary to prevent damage or disruption. It is the result of corruption in the NPOV resolution process with regards to Talk:Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change. I hold that a valid POV-dispute exists with many editors. There is suspected evidence tampering (i.e. talk page changes) of my edits and misrepresentations that unfairly harming me. Civil WP:COI declarations are begin gathered at this stage in the resolution, which are being prevented by this block. I first placed the tag it should be on during the dispute and I was misrepresented by the blocking admin. Blocking me is disrupting a fair NPOV resolution process in this article. I pray for its fair removal (or significant reduction) with guidance appreciated from experienced NPOV defending admins.

Decline reason:

You were blocked for edit warring, not for POV issues. Your unblock request seems to indicate you would edit war once again if the block was lifted. Beeblebrox (talk) 00:17, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

I am at peace, although the article is dispute, the justice is in denial. Thanks for your comments Beeblebrox. Time off is doing me very well in exile. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 01:45, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

The corrupt edit war, diff of users who changed POV tag with no talk, after Talk Page Warning , by admin who said not to change at all while when POV tag was off:

1. GoRight Added on - Disruption block by admin, appeal granted
2. WMC Removed off - no penalty for removing
3. ZP5 Added on - 3RR block by admin
4. Tedder Removed off - free and clear admin, no penalty for removing

Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 05:20, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

• The GoRight POV tag on lived for 2:58
• The WMC POV Tag Removal lived for 1:58
• The ZP5 restore lived for 0:02

This trend was run in the article change model. The Article NPOV Commission preliminary predictions and external to article consensus is the article is "very likely" heading for a NPOV change. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 03:27, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

My Conflict of Interest statement for Scientific opinion on climate change declared

1. No interests with any subjects or sources in the article.
2. Never maintained a POV except that of NPOV for the article.
3. No denials of any relevant, notable and reliable sources for the article.
4. No claim to ownership for any of the article content.
5. No relationships with any of the other editors, except in wiki.
6. No claim to eternal or nihilistic and absurd arguments.
7. United States citizen and in spiritual solidarity.
8. As of December 2, 2009 only POV claimed is the questionable existence of hat notes that have no source support and the necessity of a controversies section to balance the article.

With whom are you in spiritual solidarity? I've never encountered the term before. --TS 03:55, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Hey Tony, aren't you a foreigner? That's a clear COI for any climate-related article. Rev. Willie Archangel (talk) 03:59, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Well ... no Mr name changer it is not. I had something nicer to say until the obvious disruption on my interpretation. (which will be removed, unless the ed would like to correct themselves.) It is my faith, I really appreciate you asking, I can not explain it here. The best I can offer you now is Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 04:09, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. After five years at Misplaced Pages I still run across surprises. --TS 05:03, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Faith, actually TS I am extremely glad you brought this up. Because I am very amused by folks that place faith in objects that have no true bearing in reality. I always ask myself, why do these object of the mind have such great power over people? They only can be objectified in the mind, for there is no valid subjective and measurable proof of their existence, except by what power but that of faith. The next question becomes what is the attributed and reliable sources of the individual's or organization faith? What intentional purpose does the faith serve? Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 05:38, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

My opinion Humanity will have greater benefit from civility, over any rash attempt to control human consumption of the world resources. Good faith in humanity is what must persevere in any vision of apocalyptic climate scenarios. Climate change participants will live to the end of natural lives before the world ends. There is no fairness to the good faith in the future with hasty conclusion. I declare myself a "Climate Change Humanist".Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 21:00, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Human consumption is as likely as scientific opinion to be a cause for concern, because both are human activities. Human consumption can be measured, while scientific opinion changes. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 21:29, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

A Question for You

I had posted this on my talk page while I was blocked but I didn't realize that you were also blocked. I am moving this here so you can respond:

Re: .

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "corruption" in this statement and edit summary? I think you may be using it to mean one thing and others are taking it to mean another. This may be a simple misunderstanding based on the meaning you intend for the word. --GoRight (talk) 18:26, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Sure, let me make this most relevant to Misplaced Pages and minimize redundancy for high fidelity.

Corruption

1. impairment integrity of, virtue, or moral principle (i.e. violating WP:FIVE)
2. inducement to wrong by improper or unlawful means (i.e. WP:COI or worst)
3. a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct (i.e. WP:CIVIL feigned incomprehension and misinterpretations of semantics in commutation, re-factoring)
4. an organizational agency or influence that has unrealistic unanimous consent (i.e. WP:NPOV denial)

Corrupt

1. editing as if to degrade with unsound principles or moral values WP:NPOV
2. editing as if to subject (a user) to corruption or abuse WP:CABAL,WP:NPA
3. editing as if to alter from the original or correct form or version ]
4. editing as if to become tainted or rotten to other user WP:CIVIL
5. editing as if to become morally debased to WP:FIVE
6. editing as if to cause disintegration or ruin to articles WP:VANDAL WP:FORK

Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 21:38, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

OK, in reading through these is it fair to summarize your use of the words "corrupt" and "corruption" as meaning that you don't feel that the principles and ideals of the encyclopedia (as described in the policies that you reference) are being adhered to by some of the other editors? --GoRight (talk) 22:15, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

A quick follow-up question, could you please elaborate on how it is you feel that Tedder has misrepresented you? Can you please point to a statement where he misrepresented you and why you feel it is a misrepresentation? Thanks. --GoRight (talk) 22:04, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

I'll pile on- I've changed my reference to you; is that what you were offended by? If so, I'm sorry. If not, please explain in simple words, I'm obviously not getting it. tedder (talk) 22:12, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Apology acepted, thanks. I apologize for having to correct you. One thing, I suffered a 3RR block to my reputation however, I am finding the vacation agreeable. Can you help me here? Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 00:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

It started on the talk page when the admin, took my words out of context put my name next to his statements and made them out as if my intention was to have the tag off. My intention was to have the tag on, that's why I placed it On after considerable talk. When you (GoRight) shared that intention, then an objective dispute was underway. After that, the admin unjustly enforced his own policy with regard to the tag (as pointed out above and ... he had a Tag Off bias, while his previous Talk indicated he was just going to monitor things.) The Admin should not have touched the tag to keep his word. After that, there are the clear regard to wiki policy and the tag itself as you have adequately pointed out, which strongly support leaving it on for reasonable disputes. Frankly, while I may have crossed the 3RR bright line, the justice was off, which is a larger offense to me. Ever greater to wiki. What is ironic, is that eds are calling for content and source checks, while at the same time there is denial of a dispute, as stated all over the Talk Page. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 00:02, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Lessons learned about talk disruptor(s)

A NPOV taught by experienced talk disruptor(s)

1. Editors may claim you have no productive point and demand a point.
2. Editors may make unduly bold talk page assertions.
3. Editors may remove your talk (with or without notice) or obvious record.
4. Editors may misinterpret or transform your statements.
5. Editors may change the subject with no objective reason.
6. Editors may rudely interrupt a thread.
7. Editors may claim their disruption is justified by your obsession.
8. Editors may seek to have you banned rather than correct themselves.
9. Editors may make typos or transpositions which confuse other editors
10. Editors may make mistakes of which the were not made properly aware. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 20:54, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Warning

It seems fairly clear to me that you have no productinve contribution at all to make at SOoCC. I'd have hoped that your recent block might have taught you a lesson; it would seem not. Please be aware of William M. Connolley (talk) 17:01, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Which lesson should I be taught? Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 18:55, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

(This space reserve and assumes good faith for William M. Connolley to answer.)

Peacefully moving on with Bold, Revert, Discuss (WP:BRD) time cycle measurements.

1. The Bold lived 0:04 on Cycle 1, Bold, Revert, Discuss occurred over 121 hour period with ~232 talk page edits
2. The Bold lived 0:01 on Cycle 2, Bold, Revert, Discuss

Some polite advice

I have noticed you sometimes address other editors as "Mr X Y". In many circles both this form of address and the title "Mr" is considered rude and antagonistic. Doing it to people using their real names who are clearly entitled (or claim to be entitled, if you must) to be addressed as "Dr" (probably more than 50% of WP editors on Global Warming for example) is not courteous and violates WP:CIVIL. It is much better and more civil to stick to an untitled name. --BozMo talk 17:15, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Mr. are Dr. too. Point taken. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 18:53, 4 December 2009 (UTC) Corrected it. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 00:57, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Hello ZuluPapa5

Hi ZuluPapa5, welcome to Misplaced Pages. It seems you've met some of the Global Warming editors already. I'm a GW editor as well, and yes, I am using my real name, and no, I don't have a Ph.D. I live in Sydney, Australia; I have an honours degree in history and philosophy of science, and I am somewhat skeptical of the IPCC & other government positions on climate change. My primary interest is the defence of living scientists who are often professionally smeared by Misplaced Pages (and, yes, generally by these same editors who have or claim to have Ph.Ds). I'd be happy to chat with you privately in order to help you understand some of the mysterious rules of Misplaced Pages that can help you contribute positively, and help bring change to the culture of Misplaced Pages (something which is badly, badly needed). Go to my talk page if you'd like help or send me an email, alexharv074 at gmail dot com if you'd prefer just to vent. Alex Harvey (talk) 04:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Nice to meet you. I've been doing well reviewing policy, edit histories and drafting requested content for an article. I appreciate the offer for help. Let me review your page. It is most likely not appropriate for us work outside of wiki. The wp:blp issues concern me too. I am often puzzled how anyone could deny that the climate is changing as time does, to me it seems as if being skeptical of this is flat denial. Any yet, folks will also deny a neutral point of view. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 05:17, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

My apologies; I see you're actually a reasonably experienced editor, and it looks like you've done some very good work here. So, on wiki then, what is it exactly that you're disputing about with WMC et al? Alex Harvey (talk) 15:39, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Fair, to start see Talk:Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change and . I will help on BLP when I can. FYI, I have extensive arbitration and scientific experiences outside of wiki. BLP is vital to wiki humanity. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 16:43, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

It is literally 4.35am in Sydney, and I have been dragged into an evening of very addictive Misplaced Pages activities! I'll be brief, Although I agree with you in principle in , I think that it is inevitable, and probably necessary, that editors who have a POV continue to edit on the articles related to their POV. Otherwise, I don't believe there would be incentive for anyone ever to contribute to Misplaced Pages at all. I think, everyone has a POV on any topic about which they are knowledgeable. By strict adherence to policies of WP:RS and WP:WEIGHT, and so on, however, I believe that the POV of individual editors can be moderated, and the articles can, and sometimes do, obtain good balance. What is far more problematic is when editors start censoring according to their POV, and this inevitably leads to conflict. I feel you have raised some very valid points above, which is why I stepped in to offer assistance. On the other hand, I believe we need to accept that things are not perfect here, and accept that the needed changes in culture can only be made gradually. At the moment, for instance, it seems that 3RR is a rule we just have to obey, and I strongly recommend adhering to it. I'll try to review Talk:Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change in more detail tomorrow. Alex Harvey (talk) 17:59, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for your advice. Rest up well. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 02:09, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi ZP5, I've had a look at the dispute. I think WP:NOT#NEWS is a good policy, and that we could avoid all this arguing just by waiting for a while to see if the Scientific Opinion on Climate Change really does change as a result of CRUgate. My feeling is that it probably will change in the short to medium term, but the change will be subtle. Mike Hulme has suggested that the IPCC has run its course, and I won't be surprised if he's right. Roy Spencer, the skeptic, has already admitted that he doesn't think the instrumental temperature record is likely to change much. Lindzen's WSJ response suggests that he doesn't either. Pielke Sr of course has a marginal view that there is a warm bias in the instrumental record, and his group seems to be more optimistic than the others that it could change.

On another note, Awickert is a good editor, from my brief interactions with him. It looks like you totally lost your cool during the SOoCC discussions, which is something I've totally done a number of times.

From your contribs, it looks like you may be a practising Buddhist -- is that right? Or just interested in Buddhist history? If so, it is curious to see a Buddhist appear here suddenly amongst GW skeptics. Do other Buddhists find the AGW theory implausible? Alex Harvey (talk) 06:03, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Disappointed it seems like I lost my cool, it could have been handled better. My purpose was served.

Here are my views on Buddhism, I hold no formal qualifications to teach Buddhism.

Buddhism was founded on empirical cause and effect observations for civil purposes to end suffering. (i.e. Karma where Dharma is the principle law). It generally avoids materialism (except for the Buddha's purposes), and extensively focuses on object of the mind.

All phenomena must be empty (i.e. scientific fact is pure NPOV).

Buddhist methods largely predate scientific methods, and have many similar qualities. Buddhism is literally a technology method.

I am a Dharma Protector, my Buddhist refuge name Tenzin Tashi means "Auspicious Dharma Protector". I seek refuge in the Buddha the Dharma and the Sanga (community) as governed by a reincarnated Lama (teacher).

The Buddha was skeptical of eternal-ism and nihilism, as they have no bearing on ending suffering.

My faith focuses on Tibetan_Buddhism#Skepticism_and_Devotion_to_the_Guru and Philosophical_skepticism#Ancient_Eastern_Skepticism. This form of skepticism has differences from traditional western interpretations. (mind vs. material) The wiki articles is a grain of sand in the ocean of knowledge amassed by the Tibetans on the topics on mind objects.

When Buddhism is not practiced correctly, it can lead to authoritarianism, like any other governing process (i.e. IPCC) IMO, the key is to be focused on what is best for humanity. Where Buddhism could be better is a reasonably appreciation of materialism to have a NPOV. (Neglecting materialism is a downside of preset day Buddhism. This could be because materialism leads to war.)

I should focus on another article, and return with a peaceful process. Because the scientific opinion on climate change is a changing mind object and not material fact. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 19:56, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

No permission and other "deletable image" tags

FYI, since I noticed you tagged a few signatures for no permission... the "deletable image" tags go directly on the file description page, not the file talk page. It is actually pretty rare that tags go directly on the file talk page. SchuminWeb (Talk) 20:13, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I looked but could not find how to get to that page. Might have missed the obvious. Should have noted my insert. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 20:22, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Articles for deletion nomination of Climate Assessment Uncertainty Characterizations

I have nominated Climate Assessment Uncertainty Characterizations, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Misplaced Pages's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Climate Assessment Uncertainty Characterizations. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Polargeo (talk) 17:13, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Why did you not talk on the talk page first before you tagged and nominated. I suspect your nomination is rash and premature. Do you have a prejudice with this subject? Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 17:20, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Warnings

You left this on my talk page:

This is you second warning for disruptive talk. Your removal of talk and not engaging in talk is being consider disruptive. Please do not make personal attacks on me by calling my comments "silly" in edit summaries. If you are noble, I ask you to please restrain yourself form from the article for 1 week. Other's comments are being addressed on the article talk page. I have no intention to threaten you, your recent actions may be consider disruptive, please reconsider them seriously and make amends where able. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk)

I don't want any more warnings from you. You are disruptive; you don't really know what you're doing; your warnings are pointless. I will ignore future requests from you to stay clear of articles; please don't trouble yourself with making them. And please don't make silly comments William M. Connolley (talk) 18:04, 7 December 2009 (UTC)