| Revision as of 20:46, 22 December 2009 editCeezmad (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users864 edits →Reference← Previous edit | Revision as of 22:58, 23 December 2009 edit undoNikopolyos (talk | contribs)35 edits →Research, references and editwaring.: new sectionNext edit → | ||
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| These would appear to be Greek and Roman counterparts. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 08:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | These would appear to be Greek and Roman counterparts. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 08:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | ||
| == Research, references and editwaring. == | |||
| Dear Ari89, I see no acceptable reason why you continue to delete my-references; I have listed the work of a renowned scholar on this topic the Professor of Theology at the University of Sweden, the Encycloped Britannicai, and the Catholic Encyclopedia. You have given your interpretation of Professor Jonathan Z. Smith; however I honestly suspect that you have not read professor Smith's work. I have three reasons for believing this; one, you seem to know only one quote which you repeat multiple times but seem to know nothing else outside of it (a also note that this quote is quoted out of context on several web-sights; so I presume this is your source). Two, you seem not understand the purpose or aims of his work, or you have misinterpret them; Smith's work is about categorisation, not deletion; I seriously doubt if you had read Smith's work you would believe that he supports the aims you believe he supports. Three, you cannot give even a basic précis of his views, or methods. And four, your do not seem able to respond to criticisms by offering detail of his research or any other researcher for that matter – instead you respond to genuine and reasonable requests by attacking other people; accusing them of being liars (as I see from your talk page) or calling them stupid (as I see on this edit page). Futhermore you do not seem to know anything more general about the research in this area, for example you do not seem to understand that you are only representing the views of one researcher on the topic; you do not know of the work of any others. Also, you do not seem to realise that this research is nearly thirty years old, and has been superseded by others, but you seem to know no detail about the research community. | |||
| You claim that people's work is unsourced; however, I see from the comments above, and looking through the edit history of the page that, in fact, you have been studiously deleting references to sources, and perfectly valid ones – in light of that I do not find your claims that this article is unsourced bears much weight. I have given, for example the Encyclopedia Britannica, and the Catholic Encyclopedia. Also I see above that user Ceezmad has had a similar experience with you, as you have been deleting his references from the Encyclopedia Britannica (and against whom is see you have been conducting an edit war, as I now fear I am falling into). Do you seriously believe in your wildest dreams that deleting the contributions of the hundred's of contributors who have added to this page before you, and re-editing it so that it represents only one view – your view, is anything other than rampant vandalism? And, please notice that no one has attempted to delete your views – your views are still represented, in the criticism section where they belong, and with context and counter claims. All I object to is your attempt to edit the page so that your criticisms will be the only view point represented. If you can produce some relevant research I will be very happy for you to include it – and I look forward to reading it, but do not vandalise this page again. --] (]) 22:58, 23 December 2009 (UTC) | |||
Revision as of 22:58, 23 December 2009
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Talk
Under the criticism section, there is a totally incorrect assertion made:
- "A number of men and women were resurrected from the dead and made physically immortal according to ancient Greek religion. But all of these, including Asclepius, Dionysus and Achilles died as ordinary mortals, only to become gods of various stature after they were resurrected from the dead."
Of the figures that paragraph mentions, only Achilles was an "ordinary mortal". Asclepius was the son of the god Apollo and a mortal mother Coronis. Dionysus was the son of the god Zeus and (according to different accounts) the mortal woman Semele or the goddess Persephone. None of the other Greek figures currently listed in the article were "ordinary mortals" before their death/rebirth. Since the paragraph seems manifestly wrong, I'll remove it. I note also that no reference is cited for this assertion, which makes it seem like WP:OR. Fuzzypeg★ 04:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
- Wasn't Achilles the son of the sea-goddess Thetis? DionysosProteus (talk) 11:52, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
Funny
I couldn't help but notice that almost all of the groups in the list are filed under a location and not the religion's name. Why does Christianity get it's own section? It only has one example. It would be more appropriate to place Jesus under the Roman group. Or maybe change the name to Semitic? Also, the list of examples is rather bland and full of no names. I mean, I know very well who Osiris, Dionysus and Odin are, but I can't say the same for everyone else. Why not list Jesus there too? -Kthnxbai.
Done --Ceezmad (talk) 21:18, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Well I tried, but some Christioan dude/Dudette, does not like it and keeps changing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceezmad (talk • contribs) 15:59, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Reference
I have a site were people can look up a brief description of the GODs, How can I give it the same reference number (right now there are like 20-30 references) --Ceezmad (talk) 21:57, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
- References are meant to be real. WP:REF. --Ari89 (talk) 12:50, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
- They are real, well at least real for google. I know that there is a book out there that has the stories of a bunch of GODs that died and were reborned, I will look for it this weekend and try to use that as reference, you really make this difficult, but that is ok I guess.
--Ceezmad (talk) 18:07, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
- Also regarding Christian mythology, I see that you do not like that I changed it to Middle easter mythology, well Chirtianity is a mix of Jewish, zoroastrian with some greek mythology, that is why I like it under Middle Eastern Mythology, I will make it a sub category for Christian Mythology.
--Ceezmad (talk) 18:13, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
- No, they were not real as they did not backup in anyway what they are meant to be referencing. The fact of the matter is, that the category of 'dying and rising gods' is now defunct. It is not used by scholars of Graeco-Roman or Egyptian religion - and most of the claims are frankly wrong. I do not know what book you are going to be using - but I wouldn't put much weight in its opinion.
- No, Christianity is not a mix of Zoroastarian and Greek mythology. Christianity was a late second Temple Jewish sect with a gentile mission initiative. Its basis is in Judaism and not foreign mythologies. And if we were to follow most historical JEsus scholars, having Jesus under the category of "Myth" would not happen. Jesus was not a mythical figure, nor is the resurrection treated in the genre of myth. (e.g. Sanders, Dunn, Wright, Vermes, etc). --Ari 00:48, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Dude, you are talking about resurection, The title of this topic is Gods that died and came back to life, to greeks/Romans going to Hades (Hell) was a form of dying and comming back, Like Gilgamesh. This is a different point than your Christian Myth I understand, but this page is about Gods that died and were reborn, it is not about resurection. Maybe if there is a page about SUN GODs you could make your point there. Or reencarnation ]
I would agree that most GODs here do not follow the same exact story as Jesus, for that we need.
Horus
Mithra, Sungod of Persia (he was adopted by the romas also)
Krishna (whos father was a carpenter)
--Ceezmad (talk) 16:33, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
- Okay, you really have no idea what is happening here, do you?--Ari (talk) 16:41, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Dear Ari89 i see no need for snide remarks, if you have criticisms put them in the criticism section, and stop attacking other wikipedia contributors.--Nikopolyos (talk) 15:37, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
- Forget about it, Ari89 don't care, he keeps deleting stuff even if there are references, I also got into an do/undo battle with him, but it seems that this is important to him so I gave up. --Ceezmad (talk) 20:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Regarding Christioanl Mythology, I just want you to talk to a Rabbi, ask him what is ther view of Judaism and Hell/The Devil, then ask yourself where did the Idea of the Devil comes from, look up Zoroastarian religion, good luck! --Ceezmad (talk) 16:57, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
Similar GODS
Aunis and Adonis are the same GOD but with two different people.
Same for Peisephone and Proserpina.
and Bacchus and Dionysus
We should only need one reference for each pair. --Ceezmad (talk) 18:55, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
These would appear to be Greek and Roman counterparts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.160.98.143 (talk) 08:37, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
Research, references and editwaring.
Dear Ari89, I see no acceptable reason why you continue to delete my-references; I have listed the work of a renowned scholar on this topic the Professor of Theology at the University of Sweden, the Encycloped Britannicai, and the Catholic Encyclopedia. You have given your interpretation of Professor Jonathan Z. Smith; however I honestly suspect that you have not read professor Smith's work. I have three reasons for believing this; one, you seem to know only one quote which you repeat multiple times but seem to know nothing else outside of it (a also note that this quote is quoted out of context on several web-sights; so I presume this is your source). Two, you seem not understand the purpose or aims of his work, or you have misinterpret them; Smith's work is about categorisation, not deletion; I seriously doubt if you had read Smith's work you would believe that he supports the aims you believe he supports. Three, you cannot give even a basic précis of his views, or methods. And four, your do not seem able to respond to criticisms by offering detail of his research or any other researcher for that matter – instead you respond to genuine and reasonable requests by attacking other people; accusing them of being liars (as I see from your talk page) or calling them stupid (as I see on this edit page). Futhermore you do not seem to know anything more general about the research in this area, for example you do not seem to understand that you are only representing the views of one researcher on the topic; you do not know of the work of any others. Also, you do not seem to realise that this research is nearly thirty years old, and has been superseded by others, but you seem to know no detail about the research community.
You claim that people's work is unsourced; however, I see from the comments above, and looking through the edit history of the page that, in fact, you have been studiously deleting references to sources, and perfectly valid ones – in light of that I do not find your claims that this article is unsourced bears much weight. I have given, for example the Encyclopedia Britannica, and the Catholic Encyclopedia. Also I see above that user Ceezmad has had a similar experience with you, as you have been deleting his references from the Encyclopedia Britannica (and against whom is see you have been conducting an edit war, as I now fear I am falling into). Do you seriously believe in your wildest dreams that deleting the contributions of the hundred's of contributors who have added to this page before you, and re-editing it so that it represents only one view – your view, is anything other than rampant vandalism? And, please notice that no one has attempted to delete your views – your views are still represented, in the criticism section where they belong, and with context and counter claims. All I object to is your attempt to edit the page so that your criticisms will be the only view point represented. If you can produce some relevant research I will be very happy for you to include it – and I look forward to reading it, but do not vandalise this page again. --Nikopolyos (talk) 22:58, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
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