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Advent calendar pic copyright problem

Hi, I just saw your notice about File:Standard advent calendar.jpg. I'm sorry, I didn't realize the problem at the time (photo of others' work).

I'm hoping I can catch you and see if you have advice over whether it's worth trying to find a solution aside from speedy deletion? Would I be able to change the licensing info on the file, such as acknowledging copyright and claiming fair use (if applicable!) ?

As for fair use, I hate to start making an argument because I know it's very overused and I still have more to learn about it. But in this case, isn't this akin to taking a photo of any other product, like a Tonka truck and uploading it? Uploading an image of the artwork on the product has no commercial effect on its use in the product, as people buy an advent calendar to use an advent calendar. Qwerty0 (talk) 20:36, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Fair use is not allowed on Commons, so it must be deleted from there without question. And on English WP it's only allowed if it contributes something unique to the article that can't be replaced by a free image. If you think this is so, you can upload it here and add a fair use rationale explaining why a non-free image should be allowed in this instance. -- Zsero (talk) 20:41, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Ok, thank you so much for clarification. I'm not very familiar with either the Commons or file protocols. And actually, I think I like the first photo you replaced mine with better so I'm alright with not re-uploading mine.

But I think we need a photo in the article of a typical calendar (as described in the text of the intro and "Modern Calendars" section). And having read more about the non-free use policy, I'm pretty sure that as well as exemplifying the article topic, there is no free equivalent (this most common type is always a commercial product), it has zero effect on commercial opportunities, and at least File:Adventskalender_1.jpg is of quite low resolution. If I am able to get a version of either of the files with proper licensing and rationale given, would you object to me using it for the article? Qwerty0 (talk) 22:18, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

The other pic also appears at first glance to be a copyvio, but I've asked the uploader to clarify its status. If it is deleted from the Commons, it could be uploaded to the individual WPs to be included in articles under fair use; then it would just need a rationale for why it needs to be in the article, i.e. the reader needs to be shown what a modern commercial calendar looks like, and by definition these are unlikely to be available with a free license. -- Zsero (talk) 22:31, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Alright then, thanks a lot for being so helpful. Now I know where to go from here. I hope that guy with the first photo updates, since I like his better. But if not, maybe I'll resize mine and upload it again. Qwerty0 (talk) 22:42, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Tropper and BLP

I have blocked the editor who kept adding poorly sourced negative material to the biography of Leib Tropper. However, please keep in mind that the Jewish Telegraphic Agency is a reliable source that can be used in the article on Tropper. Jayjg 05:51, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

It's only a reliable source if it's reporting the results of its own research. In this case it's just parroting Rosenberg, which makes it no more reliable than him. -- Zsero (talk) 05:54, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Reliable sources are not characterized by whether or not they do their own research, but rather based on whether the material they publish has reliable editorial oversight. This JTA article has no less editorial oversight than any other JTA article. Jayjg 06:07, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Read the JTA piece. It says nothing in its own voice. It doesn't say the tapes exist, let alone what they say or whose voice is on them. All it says is "Rosenberg says all these things". So we have a RS that Rosenberg said them, but he is not reliable and his unsupported accusations aren't reportable by us, especially such serious ones about a BLP. Remember, RS is not a magic wand; it's a policy that exists for a defined reason. Also remember that there is no such thing as an absolutely reliable source; sources are reliable only to the extent that they do fact-checking and editorial oversight, both of which this piece clearly didn't have. -- Zsero (talk) 06:18, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages shiur

That's cool! I live not far away from you, geographically. Also, I'm not Orthodox. I was raised Conservative and am active in the Reform group at my University. I have a secular education and am trying to catch up on some of what I would have learned had I gone to Yeshiva. I'm also interested in Jewish outreach. By the way, are you Chabad? I notice that Chabad is one of the articles you're most active in editing. I've visited several Chabad houses in various parts of the U.S. and it's incredible what Chabad does for Jewish outreach. There was a real void in Jewish outreach and R. Schneerson Z"L had genius in entering it. Other movements are now learning from Chabad, and in my opinion, the non-Orthodox movements need to work on bringing their own distinctive approaches to the cause. I'm also interested in Karaite Judaism, which essentially sides with the Conservative on tzniut. I think the basic premises of Karaism are relatively easy to understand, and I don't fully understand the arguments for Rabbanism. --AFriedman (talk) 15:48, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

I do not identify as a Chabadnik, or as much of anything beyond Orthodox. My email is zev@sero.name -- Zsero (talk) 15:51, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi, thanks again. I just wanted to let you know that I'm done with finals. My email is reseal05@gmail.com. --AFriedman (talk) 00:34, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Leib Tropper

I have left Truth transparancy a 3RR warning on his talk page, if he reverts one more time I will make a report about him. Off2riorob (talk) 20:06, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Illustrator

Just wanted to show a 20th-century illustration. Pepso2 (talk) 03:19, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Surely there must be at least one free illustration from the 20th century! I could believe that there isn't one from some particular school, but from an entire century you can't find even one?! -- Zsero (talk) 04:57, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Tropper

Hi, I am still not happy about this content which is weakly cited and alleged and claimed....

In early December 2009, recordings were circulating on the internet of conversations between a man alleged to be Tropper and a woman whose conversion he is alleged to have been supervising, and which appear to show that the two were having a sexual affair.

I have taken it out a couple of times but it has been replaced and still sits there now, do you support this content inclusion? Off2riorob (talk) 22:03, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

There has to be some mention of this, since it's a major story and it's in RS. I don't think there's any question that the Post is RS. I insist on keeping out links to the recordings, since they're not at an RS and they haven't been authenticated, but the fact that they're alleged to exist has to be mentioned. The juxtaposition to his resignation should also be kept, since every person with a brain in his head knows that they are linked and there's no reason to deliberately hide that; this is why I think it shouldn't have been moved to the generic "controversies" section but should stay in the EJF section. In general I think you've gone a bit overboard here; all I wanted was to keep out stuff that was sourced only to blogs, even if the blogs were quoted verbatim by so-called "RS", and to prevent allegations from being reported as established fact. -- Zsero (talk) 22:15, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

I didn't move it, it is clearly weak and not being widely reported, it is all claimed and very weak..I would remove it, and have done twice..as far as anyone with a brain in their head can see..that 2 plus 2 equales 4 goes, I prefer citations.... I am happy to leave it with you as an experienced editor and you being knowledgeable in this field..One thing I would say..if the accusations are not confirmed somehow or at least strengthened by addition reliable citations in the near future that the content should be removed

Yes, I know you didn't move it; I was saying that I wish michab hadn't moved it. The thing is, there's almost certainly something going on, or he wouldn't have resigned so suddenly. Exactly what is another question, and the major source that everyone including the so-called "reliable sources" are quoting is blogger Scott Rosenberg, whom I wouldn't believe if he told me it was raining. It's rather like the situation last year with Sarah Palin, where all the "reliable sources" were getting their information from the blogger Andy Halcro, who was making up any old thing that fell into his head and feeding it to them, so Misplaced Pages had to report it all as if it were fact.-- Zsero (talk) 07:03, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes thats true when the comment was moved and stood alone it appeared all the more wrong, your of course correct that clearly something is going on... we don't have to report controversial weakely cited content as though fact, but...anyway..lets see how it develops, imo it will vanish. The wiki is full of such content, regards for the discussion. Off2riorob (talk) 17:12, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

• Hi, there is a new discussion regarding Trotter at the talkpage, I would appreciate it if you added your opinion on the matter. Off2riorob (talk) 22:19, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

British Jews

I acknowledge that my additional section (on the Anglosism of British Jewry) was lacking in grammar and references, but you didn't need to delete the whols section, you could have just corrected it and kept it in. It's important and relevant information. Colt .55 (talk) 18:10, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

I don't think its thesis is true. And as written it was not salvageable; the heading was a non-word! If you have actual facts to add, and can do so in the English language and can back them up with references, then do so; otherwise don't. -- Zsero (talk) 18:56, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

DON'T FOLLOW ME ARONUD

Do not follow me around reverting everything, please I'm new but what you are doing is wrong!!--Mamalala (talk) 03:14, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Actually it's exactly right. Your edits that I've seen have generally not been improving the articles, so I'm checking up on the rest of your edits to see whether they follow the same pattern. -- Zsero (talk) 03:20, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Don't revert work of new users o.k.?? --Mamalala (talk) 03:22, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Why on earth not? If the article is not improved by their edits then they need to be reverted. And new users are more likely than old ones to make unproductive edits. -- Zsero (talk) 03:23, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Why my edits are not improving the article? You are reverting everything without reason. What about talk page?--Mamalala (talk) 03:29, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Mamalala (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
99.64.215.189 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

It appears that the user and the IP are acting in concert. If their edits are vandalistic, you could consider reporting them to WP:AIV. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:31, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

They're not vandalism, just not generally improvements to the articles. I've been explaining in edit summaries where I think the problem isn't obvious. -- Zsero (talk) 03:33, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

NO!! I'm just not welcome here! You are reverting everything! This is exactly what I read about in the press. New users are chased away by people like you!--Mamalala (talk) 03:36, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Have I left any nasty messages at your talk page? No. So how are you being driven away? But the object here is to improve the encylopaedia, not to degrade it, even slightly. When you make a change that makes the article slightly worse, e.g. by substituting not quite the right word for exactly the right one, or by injecting Polish nationalism where it doesn't belong, an editor who disagrees with it has every right to fix it. -- Zsero (talk) 03:46, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

O.K. I'm sorry.--Mamalala (talk) 03:48, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, but why you keep following me around reverting everything? Why do you think you know everything?--Mamalala (talk) 04:08, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm following your edits because most of them are not improvements. They haven't yet reached the point of pure vandalism, but they're getting there. In some cases the problem should be obvious. Where it is not, I have indicated it in the edit summary. -- Zsero (talk) 04:10, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

I will report you

I you don't stop following me and reverting my edits I will report you.--Mamalala (talk) 04:28, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

On what grounds do you think you can report me? -- Zsero (talk) 04:31, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry but this is wrong what you were doing. You reverted all my edits leaving me no choice.]--Mamalala (talk) 04:43, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

COI complaint and discussion concerning your pro-Chabad POV editing

A WP:COI complaint and discussion concerning your pro-Chabad POV editing and writing has started at Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#User:Yehoishophot Oliver. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 04:52, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for this help

]--Mamalala (talk) 06:26, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

A lot to learn...

Thanks for your help and no bad feelings okay? I'm going to bed now. Tomorrow may ask you for some assistance.--Mamalala (talk) 07:00, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Thank you

... for handling the Mamalala incidents. Not yet convinced that this is a new user, but for now giving the benefit of doubt. Best Skäpperöd (talk) 08:52, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Jonathan Taylor Thomas

Yo, just thought I would let you know why I labeled JTT as a former actor. I edited the article to state he is a former actor because he hasn't acted in three or four years. Since his occupation was actor, and he is no longer acting, i thought it was notable. Like if a firefighter or something is no longer fighting fires he's a former firefighter. Peter Napkin Dance Party (talk) 05:49, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Please review

My comments here. Thanks, Tomer 19:08, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Chicpeas.JPG

The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. Skier Dude (talk) 06:11, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. I was not aware of WP:NFCC#9, which says that non-free content may not be used on talk pages. I will replace the image on Talk:Gaffer tape with an external link. As for this image, I think it might have a place in Spelling#Misspellings, if I can work up a lot of new text to add to that section, so that it has room for more pictures . I'm not sure if I can do that within a week, though, so if I haven't feel free to delete it, and I'll re-upload it when I'm ready. I might also find a way to work it in to Counterfeit consumer goods; that article really needs to actually mention that misspellings are a common sign of knock-offs, and this image might then be valuable as a counter-example, of a label that's misspelt because everyone at the manufacturer who could have caught the error is illiterate. -- Zsero (talk) 14:38, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Sk8punk3d288 block

Hi. According to a message on my talk page left below your message, another user was just as guilty, perhaps more so and he's defending my block. I didn't mean to come off as "punishing" anyone, but a gross error like that which makes negative international press seemed to me to be a legit basis for a block. While I believe I was justified in blocking him, I'll unblock the account per your request. In retrospect, it was more negligence than outright vandalism. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 04:25, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Personal information of a minor

Please see WP:CHILD#Response: "Deletion and oversight may be used in appropriate cases to remove the information." The standard operating procedure on the oversight list is to suppress these to protect the children and their families. You are more than welcome to contact the oversight list or the meta:Ombudsman commission if you believe I have used the tools improperly. -- Avi (talk) 18:26, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

This goes even doubled for pictures which:

1. The child has no legal right to upload an release copyright.
2. The child cannot be assumed to understand the ramifications of their actions even werethe to have the legal ability to release the copyright.
3. May quickly be spread throughout the internet and be used for disgusting, if not dangerous purposes.

-- Avi (talk) 18:31, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

You wrote that you were acting per a policy. I merely asked what policy that was. WP:CHILD is just an essay. As for the photo, why would he not have the right to release the copyright? And why would this picture be more likely to be misused than any other picture of a child, of which there are many on WP and the Commons, and which WP policy does not in any way discourage? I am making no allegations whatsoever, I am merely asking why you acted as you did, and specifically which policy you cited as your reason. -- Zsero (talk) 18:44, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Images of children that are not associated with a name, username etc. wouldn't be as much of an issue; or old images of children who have since grown up, etc. ☺Coppertwig (talk) 22:18, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Rav Shach page

I've edited the page and posted to the discussion of this page. In case you don't see it, here's what I wrote: Winchester and Zsero's edits to the footnotes have no business in an encyclopedia article about Rav Shach: they are nothing more than an attempt to repudiate the charges against their rebbe. If they would like to create a new Wiki page on "refutations to anti-Chabad charges of idolatry" I'm game. But Zsero's title "this is a footnote, not an essay" is as relevant to his edits as mine. I cut these two some slack by leaving their footnotes largely intact but adding some corrective information (to the effect that their sources neither corroborated their claim nor, in all but the Tanya instances, had anything to do with their rebbe's sicha). Therefore, I've largely removed both footnotes - leaving only direct links to the offending sicha so readers can draw their own conclusions (I believe in empowering people to make educated decisions...others seem to disagree). If Winchester and Zsero insist on turning this page into a platform for tangential (and incorrect) ideological rhetoric, I may launch a neutrality complaint. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tikkunsofrim (talk • contribs) 22:02, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Rush Limbaugh

I interpreted that comment by Rush as meaning this was a major turning point in his life. Based on your action, I guess we should wait and see. It is a little hard to figure out what will look important five years from now. What stood out the most, though, was that the man had been out of the hospital 21 hours, and Misplaced Pages had NOTHING.

Oh, and the word got out that Misplaced Pages showed Rush had died. You're a hero.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:00, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not a newspaper. Once he was out of hospital, the story of his having gone there in the first place needed to be made shorter, not longer. A brief hospitalisation that turned out to be nothing is worth one sentence, not a whole paragraph.

Oh, and the article had him as dead for a grand total of 6 minutes and 11 minutes; errors and vandalism are quickly corrected. But unless your intention was to congratulate me on having reverted the first of the two incidents, I don't understand why you bothered to mention it. -- Zsero (talk) 19:08, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

I didn't know about the second incident but we appreciate your keeping watch.

You'll have to forgive me as I tend to err on the side of more information, not less, figuring over time some of the information will seem less important.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:13, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Civility

This is a general warning to all users involved in recent COIN and ANI discussions. Please stop talking about other users mental status, mental health or their person. As the WP:CIVILITY policy says, "Even during heated debates, editors should behave politely, calmly and reasonably, in order to keep the focus on improving the encyclopedia and to help maintain a pleasant editing environment" and WP:NPA which states: "comments should not be personalized and should be directed at content and actions rather than people". I am drawing a line under what has been said to this point so you all right now have a clean slate, but I intend to start blocking users on both sides of the dispute who continue engaging in violations of the behavioural policies so please accept this as a final warning. Thanks, Sarah 05:29, 5 January 2010 (UTC)