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Anon. page creation disabled

As an experiment, page creation by anonymous users has been disabled on the English Misplaced Pages. This was announced by Jimbo Wales on the WikiEN mailing list . The Seigenthaler case is stated as one of the motivating factors. Anonymous users can still create Talk pages. The text that anonymous users see when attempting to edit is at Mediawiki:Nocreatetext, if users have comments on the wording. -- Creidieki 19:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for providing the link. I guess I'm wondering if people are remembering that creating "new" pages is necessary to properly nominate articles for AfD, FAC, etc. Lack of people doing newpages patrol, and the increased 'noise' from ever-increasing tolerance of users adding large quantities of micro-stubs seem like problems that solving would provide more benefit than restricting anons. IE 'nothing but an infobox or navbox' should be speediable, as should bios that don't say who, what, and when, etc. And another note from Jimbo said to the effect of 'we should accomodate the occasional school article, but it would be a problem if people start mass adding them'. Well, mass adding has started--dozens of small school articles that say nothing but that it's a school, and maybe the district and/or city name, have been created recently. 24.17.48.241 20:24, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Good idea; a staggering number of new pages are garbage. I am wondering if it would be a good idea to add some text about how easy it is to create a new account to Mediawiki:Nocreatetext. I see stuff on the Web about registering, and I shudder (or turn to Bugmenot.) Adding such text could encourage honest anon editors to register (but it could encourage vandals, too...) Massysett 20:40, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

This is outrageous. So many articles are started by anonymous users, and now we deny them the possibility to contribute. There was absolutely no reason to do that, and so many reasons why this shouldn't have been done. We say that "everyone can edit" yet we disable the basic functionality of asking question on Talk. Wrong, so very wrong. Incredibly wrong.  Grue  20:42, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. There is no reason for this. After all, this is meant to be the 💕. FireFox 20:45, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

It's an experiment. Give it a few days. I don't think it is useful either, but hey, they can switch it off again. After all, you're only discouraging sincere users. Kids who want to add their primary school, and vandals who want to create bogus articles will just create a throwaway account, and add an extra line of garbage to the database in doing so. Jimbo's post shows awareness of all this. If he decides the effect is not beneficient, it'll just be switched back to the way it was. dab (ᛏ) 20:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

The free part does not refer to the ability of anybody to create pages. For example, Nupedia was also a 💕, while being very far from allowing anonymous editors to contribute. Given the amount of nonsense created by anonymous users at newpages, I personally as a new-pages-patroller hope the change is permanent. Thue | talk 21:07, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Do we have stats for what proiportion of new pages created by anons are vandalism of one form or another? I believe it is quite high - when vandal-watching I always check new pages by anons, and it seems to me that most of them are ether speediable or spam. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / (W) AfD? 16:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Note that they are still able to create new Talk pages. I haven't tested the other namespaces. -Splash 20:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

Just my opinion here, but when I first used Misplaced Pages in 2002, I was quite shocked to find that I could just go ahead and edit an article with nobody knowing who I was, not registering or anything. I think that being allowed to do that without registering almost encourages new users to do something silly, like try out wiping a whole page or adding nonsense to the page or just writing a page about their pet dog, just because they can. Greater accountability would increase the integrity of Misplaced Pages, which currently has a rather poor reputation in the wider community. Whilst I know that a lot of high school students swear by it for research assignments, and a few tech gurus do as well, other than people who edit it and enjoy the community side to it, there are a lot of people who think that it is not really all that good. I think that the general perception is that it is good in the sense of being a "community", as in like LiveJournal kind of thing, but as an actual resource, it is not generally perceived all that well. Adding more accountability would improve this perception, and also make it a lot easier on everyone involved. I actually don't see the harm in making a user create an account before even editing at all. It's still free - you just need an account. And I further don't see why we couldn't require people to register by e-mail like LiveJournal does. Most places have that kind of thing, so why not here? I think that long-term, while these bad press issues come in, we are going to have to head towards that kind of thing anyway. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 21:47, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree with what you say, except that I think the "bad press" is irrelevant. They think Misplaced Pages is inferior -- well, to what? There is no comparable project. Nothing like it was tried before (or rather, no similar project was remotely as successful). Academic standards should be our aim, and we are very far removed from that, on average, but if you want to compare it to sources published by a board of editors, consider it a collection of 821 articles. All the rest is just thrown in for what it is, take it or leave it. I am afraid that academic standards are no nearer even with anons blocked completely; WP's "anti-acedemic bias" is, sadly, an entirely different discussion. dab (ᛏ) 21:54, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

THERE was very good reason to do this If you disagree then I doubt you've have new page patrolled. I did for a month. From what I observed, the vast majority of anon contributions had to be speedied, afd'd, or copyvio'd; and, the ones that remained were poor stubs on microparts of larger subjects. However, maybe we should allow anons to create articles through existing red links? Lotsofissues 22:29, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree; the percentage of valuable new pages that come from anons is pretty small.

I'm still shocked that Jimbo actually did it, given the arguments I've read about anonymous users being valuable, but I'll be interested to see how the experiment pans out. I think that most "drive-by" anonymous edits which are valuable are going to be to existing pages, not new ones, and registration is not that big a hurdle to someone interested enough to create a new page. I think perhaps something about "you can register for an account" should be added to Nocreatetext, though.

I was just thinking the other day that it might be good to disallow anon-page-creation (or even disallow anon-editing at all) for limited amounts of time -- one day a week, or one day a month, or something -- just to allow RC and NewPage patrollers a "Day of Rest". They could help with Misplaced Pages:Backlog, or (gasp) actually work on their own interests, without fretting over the rising tide of dreck. I didn't think it was a likely proposal in the traditional Misplaced Pages climate, and I do fear the slippery slope effect of "but it's so much NICER around here on Rest Days"....but what do other folks think of the notion? — Catherine\ 22:41, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

As a developer, maybe you know, if there is any way to allow anons to create articles only from red links? Subjects already approved by editors for start should be open to every person. Lotsofissues 22:55, 5 December 2005 (UTC)

I think this wouldn't work out... it shouldn't take long for users to discover they can create any pages they want by adding red links to existing articles. ‣ᓛᖁ♀ᑐ 00:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I see vandals from wikipedia-watch quickly adapting. But the dumb kid who just wants to say his school is gay? Red links show there is either not enough interest or knowledge in the existing membership to start an article. We need to open those links to newcomers. Lotsofissues 08:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I think that Lotsofissues is making a very good suggestion. Anons should be able to create any page that is linked to from an article. A system like this would still prevent anons from creating nonsense pages, while allowing them to create wanted articles and to perform such tasks as adding articles to AfD. Some vandals will realize how to get around it, but anyone who can figure out to get around it by adding a link to an existing article is smart enough to get around the current system by creating an account. Does anyone know if this idea is technically feasible? Canderson7 16:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

this move is a start, but only a start. that it took a major media fiasco to get action on this problem is rather sad - i think wikipedia needs to start being proactive, rather than reactive. i'm a newer wikipedian. i like wikipedia, and i dislike it. i've written some screedishness on my user page. the suggestion that anons are valuable is, in my opinion, rubbish. oh, i'm certain there are anons that have contributed valuable info. i'm also quite certain they could have contributed that info non-anonymously, just as well. this new move does not go far enough. to edit, one should have to sign up, and respond to an email 'opt in'. the user can still remain - fundamentally, and patently in effect - anonymous. but they must at least show that they're willing to 'stand behind' what they write, at least to the extent that someone can contact them and say 'stop being a putz'. and yes, nothing to stop the truly committed 'anon' from just using a throwaway address for the signup. but at minimum, it adds a crucial layer of committment a step away from simply clicking, and writing 'i have a giant penis' in the middle of an article. in the couple of months i've been here, the flow of "rv" "rv" "rv" "rv" "rv" that goes past in my watchlist is, really, laughable. so many good faith people have their time burned by the bad faith people out there. why be a doormat for people who have crap on their minds? (yes, i'm in a screedalicious mood)....at any rate, if you are interested, feel free to visit my user page for more ramblings. Anastrophe 00:03, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I like what Jimbo is at least trying this out. Maybe we could also have a brief period of disallowing any anon edits and then comparing whether vandalism decreased and other useful statistics. Gflores 01:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think anon new pages are as much more likely to be problematic as people seem to assume. For example, of the 11 pages listed as copyvio so far today, 7 are from registered users (most added before the anon new page lock went into effect). If people aren't checking reg edits during NP/RC patrol, I think a lot is getting missed. 24.17.48.241 02:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

A more recent example: User:Emperor, who has been registered for almost 3 years, just did a cut&paste move of the content of Futurequake to FutureQuake (if an admin reading this could merge the histories--they both have multiple edits now). All edits need to be checked, and the only way I see that happening is if more people start doing NP and RC patrol; the population of 'checkers' does not seem to have increased nearly proportional to the increase in the number of 'editors/adders'. 24.17.48.241 04:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The only issue I have with this as a frequent RC and NP patroller is that now it is a bit harder to tell the "good" from the "bad" on each of these lists. I think a sizeable chunk of our former anonymous vandals are now getting one-hit-wonder logins, doing their thing, and then probably disappearing into the night. Don't get me wrong; if this makes blocking or cleanup easier in some way I don't see, then I'm all for it. ESkog | 03:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

This is what we call at work that comes from upper management a "Knee jerk reaction". It's purpose is to show whomever that something is being done to fix a perceived problem, rather than actually fix the problem. I could start a new article on this subject but unfortunately I'm not allowed.--67.3.223.148 05:14, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

I suggest this be done only once in a while when appropriate. Not all the time. But when discipline is needed. Sort of like time to exercise or fire drills. The more restrictions, the less movement and contributions.--Jondel 06:45, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Having spent much of my time on Misplaced Pages adding delete tags to pointless new articles (and actually enjoying it, strangely) I see why this change might be necessary. 90% of the articles I've added said tags to have been created by anons, though I do of course click on the anon ones more as they're more suspicious. There are of course many good articles created by anons but hopefully the registration process shows itself to be quick and easy for them (which it is, I was pretty surprised how it only took a few seconds when I did it). It might make sense to highlight exactly what you need to register. Generally though, apart from being slightly scared this will lead to registration for all users after a similar case, which I think is certainly a bad idea I just about agree with it. Jellypuzzle 10:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

And now 95% of the articles you tag will be by redlinked usernames. And when we realize that most of our worthless pages are created by redlinked usernames and disallow mainspace page creation by users without a userpage, 100% of the articles you tag will be by bluelinked usernames. Hooray for progress! —Cryptic (talk) 15:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

So it looks like crybaby Siegenthaler accomplished what many community activists could not achieve--controlling what anons could do in the Misplaced Pages. However, even though I feel favorable to restricting the creation of articles (and even "major degree" changes) by anons, it appears that Mr. Wales has trumped any community discussion of this. That is rather alarming. That he has allowed an old crybaby to force through a change in the nature of Misplaced Pages portends bad things ahead if this decision isn't entered into a proper community decision process as soon as possible. — Stevie is the man! 16:28, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Wales' dictatorial approach has to stop somehow. It isn't helpful, and it prevents discussion of "trivial" changes that really aren't trivial at all. Off the top of my head, there have been six recent occasions of Jimbo doing whatever he wants without regard for the community, and he shows no sign of recognizing there may be problems with that:

• Speedy deletion of unsourced images
• Arbitration committee appointments
  • Deleting the straw poll created to promote discussion of the above
• Deleting libelous material from history
• Having John Seigenthaler Sr. protected, and then deleted entirely
• Forbidding anonymous page creation

Only one of these seems to be unobjectionable enough to not need much discussion (libel deletion), but there are still complaints that we should not be deleting history. The page-creation decision seems the worst by far. Why should we continue to go along with our uncommunicative dictator? ‣ᓛᖁ♀ᑐ 16:58, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

It's Jimmy's encyclopaedia. He can do what he likes. First, he likes banning newpages from anons. Next, he might like banning anons altogether. Then, he might like banning anyone who doesn't agree with him or the... mustn't use the c word. Me, I hope he'll start liking a great NPOV encyclopaedia that anyone can edit, but I'm not holding my breath.

Anonymity does not imply bad faith.

Not only was I anonymous editor for a fair while before becoming pseudonymous, but I have also done new page patrol. I disagree with Lotsofissues. I, for one, remember being anonymous myself. The very first new page that I created as an anonymous editor was nominated for deletion minutes after I created it. I argued the case to keep it, and the page was kept. Had this gross assumption of bad faith, simply on the grounds that someone chooses not to create an account, been in place when I first came here, I wouldn't be here now. Anonymity does not imply bad faith. Anonymous users make thousands of good faith edits to Misplaced Pages every day. Indeed, since the subject of preventing anonymous users from nominating articles for deletion has come up, I point out that there was an anonymous user who made an AFD nomination very recently that put the nominations of many pseudonymous users to shame. Uncle G 14:03, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

• ... whereas George W. Bush was just nominated for deletion by a pseudonymous user, Allomagh (talk · contribs). Uncle G 14:20, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
  • but he only created his account this morning , after the restriction on anonymous newpage creation (required for AfD). Conclusion: if we force people to register to create new pages, and registering is that easy, a big effect is reducing our trust in registered users as a group; it requires more emphasis on checking each person's contribution history, and less of "oh, well he bothered to register, that's worth something". Rd232 15:05, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
    • We need to make it a bit of a bother to register: a 30 to 60 second non-automatable procedure that involves manually clicking various checkboxes and typing in text (not personal information of any kind, just Turing tests to make sure we're not dealing with a bot). Legitimate users (who will only have to do this once, ever) won't mind, especially if we explain to them upfront the reason why; on the other hand, mass-creators of abusive sockpuppets will have a small extra hassle to go through each time they burn a sockpuppet through vandalism. This is like spam: if spam cost 1 cent per message (or a CPU usage cost to do a small mathematical calculation) it would become uneconomical. -- Curps 09:20, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
      • Please see our very fine article on CAPTCHA for the problems with this idea. --Carnildo 10:26, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

• Have we forgetten WP:BITE? - Mailer Diablo 14:23, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Anonymity does not imply bad faith. I don't think Misplaced Pages should cave to outside pressure to change its policies - any policy changes should arise from discussions within the community, not imposed from the top down. I think it's crucial to keep independence and allow anonymity. I was an anonymous user and made several edits and started articles before eventually registering. One of Misplaced Pages's strengths (and weaknesses) is that it is easy to edit and easy to get started. Requiring vandals to register will do nothing to stop determined vandals, and will only discourage new users. The restriction on creating new articles sounds like more of a public relations move than an actual solution -- it does nothing to address the criticisms of Misplaced Pages that were raised. And as a public relations move it sends the wrong message -- that the people running Misplaced Pages can be intimidated into making changes in the procedures and infrastructure of Misplaced Pages by a little bit of bad press. Flow 01:54, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Less work for everyone cannot possibly be bad, right?

I predict the following observation: Misplaced Pages still works well without anons creating articles, and we will have less work.
It doesn't follow that this is a good idea, or that this is a bad idea. In fact, I sincerely doubt we'll reach any conclusion at all, since nobody has established what we are trying to accomplish. This could very well stick around through sheer inertia. Who is going to come up with concrete evidence of what the difference to Misplaced Pages is? How do you measure improvement? In number of lawsuit scares per second?
Incidentally, I see both glowing praise in the media for this as a reaction to the Seigenthaler incident, and damning criticism of the "closing the barn door after the horse has left" kind. Of course nobody looks at the big picture of what Misplaced Pages is and how it should be appraised, but that's to be expected. JRM · Talk 16:23, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

• According to press reports, what Jimbo has stated the change is intended to achieve is a reduced New Page Patrol workload for our "600 active volunteers". Uncle G 19:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

... and "at least eight other languages". I've popped a note off to the BBC regarding their article which has both worrying statements, and misses the 'active' from the volunteer bit. User:Noisy | Talk 20:02, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Way of automatically placing anon new pages into a cat ?

Is there a way of making up a category of new pages created by anons besides the Speical:Newpages function? That way it could be like cleanup, with Category:Anonnewpages-Monday, Category:Anonnewpages-Tuesday, etc.. That way the newpage patrol wouldn't duplicate effort, and know when a page sliped passed them. Does any of the programers here know if you can automatically add a cat like Category:Anonnewpages to any new pages created by anons?--Rayc 16:25, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Good idea. I think that could just work. I sadly think this decision isn't as "temporary" as we think though. Jellypuzzle 16:40, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

So this is permanent?

I don't see the word "experimental" appear alongside this action. Lotsofissues 16:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Doesn't registering offer more privacy?

It seems to me that editing "anonymously" actually exposed more information about you to the general public, by exposing your IP address. For people editing from an Internet cafe, or from a large ISP that dynamically assigns addresses in a large range or puts people behind proxies, that doesn't matter so much. But for many people, as for our hoaxster, that number will identify either your home or your employer. If you register, access to this information becomes restricted to a much smaller set of people. If you edit from multiple locations, you could associate those edits as being from the same person by registering, but on the other hand, you could always register for multiple accounts, and no one would be the wiser. I'm wondering if privacy advocates shouldn't be encouraging people to register, then? -- Beland 19:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Side effects of requiring registration

I think some people are under the misimpression that just because anyone who wants to create a new article could register to do so, they will do so. Registration is a hoop to jump through, and a small annoyance. Just because someone intends to do something, does not mean they will continue to want to do so once it becomes clear that the process is more annoying or requires more effort than they thought when they started out. So while some people will register to get around the restriction, everyone in that situation will not, and that's pretty much the point. Having to also create a userpage, for instance, would be yet another hoop, which would result in another drop in participation. So while there may be a slippery slope here, it is an uphill one. -- Beland 19:14, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

• IMHO, I think all anon activity should be curtailed, not just new article creation. This is not a free-speech issue. It's a responsibility issue. Requiring contributors to create an account with a linked email addy would significantly reduce vandalism. One can still contribute anonymously by signing up via a Hotmail account. My name isn't really Juan Oso. I contribute anonymously. However, if there were to be a problem, I am more easily traced. Free speech does not mean anyone can say anything anywhere at any time. One has no right to scream "fire" in a crowded theater. One has no right to spray-paint "Bush sucks" on the front of my house. To that extent, I would say one has no right to vandalize an online site like Misplaced Pages through anonymous shenanigans. JuanOso 21:58, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Some better press: Nature compares Misplaced Pages and Britannica

The Age newspaper is reporting that Nature magazine just conducted an expert blind comparison on 42 science-related articles between Misplaced Pages and Brittanica. It's not on the Nature website yet and needs confirmation, but am assuming that it's in the upcoming issue. 162 "factual errors, omissions or misleading statements" were found in the Misplaced Pages articles, and 123 in Britannica. Eight "serious errors, such as misinterpretations of important concepts," were found in total - four in each. Referencing the Seigenthaler mess, the Age states that such errors are "the exception rather than the rule". Even taking into account that science is a strong point on the wiki, this is an encouraging report after a week of being lambasted. - BanyanTree 14:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I think the article was recently added to the Nature website: http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051212/full/438900a.html--GregRM 18:54, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Not bad, it would be great if they could provide us with the list of errors. Martin 19:16, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

It gets better. The related Nature editorial ends:

Nature would like to encourage its readers to help. The idea is not to seek a replacement for established sources such as the Encyclopaedia Britannica, but to push forward the grand experiment that is Misplaced Pages, and to see how much it can improve. Select a topic close to your work and look it up on Misplaced Pages. If the entry contains errors or important omissions, dive in and help fix them. It need not take too long. And imagine the pay-off: you could be one of the people who helped turn an apparently stupid idea into a free, high-quality global resource.

This is better than praise - it's a journal of the highest respectability asking its expert readers to pitch in editing. Ummm..wow, BanyanTree 20:24, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Here is a list of the articles reviewed. I've emailed Nature, asking for them to publish the exact errors in the articles they mentioned. — Ambush Commander 20:48, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Wales also plans to introduce a 'stable' version of each entry. Once an article reaches a specific quality threshold it will be tagged as stable. This sounds like other stuff I've been hearing, but nothing offical has been said on the site. Is this the article validation feature they are working on?--Rayc 20:56, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Article validation is being prepared to go live soon, at least, that's what I seem to be getting from the Wikitech-l mailinglist. Exactly what Wales said probably can be found here (the podcast that includes this article). — Ambush Commander 20:59, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

(The following was reposted down below, I've merged the two topics together for clarity. — Ambush Commander 21:00, 14 December 2005 (UTC)) http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v438/n7070/full/438900a.html This is outstanding! Nature is the most prestigious scientific journal--we could not have asked for better press!

Lotsofissues 19:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I've just created Misplaced Pages:External peer review to keep track of such things. violet/riga (t) 21:50, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Here's a Nature blog on the topic: and podcast. Samw 00:39, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Hopefully more, larger reviews will be conducted by other groups in the future. These results are encouraging, but Nature's sample size is statistically insignificant as a measure of either encyclopedia's overall quality. ‣ᓛᖁ♀ᑐ 00:46, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Not only is the sample size small, but the problem with simply counting the number of errors is that it is not normalized to the amount of information. e.g. it is easy to have zero errors if you don't say anything, whereas an equal amount of errors may be misleading if one article is much longer than the other. —Steven G. Johnson 02:40, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

One interesting tidbit that deserves emphasis: they surveyed 1000 Nature authors, and 12% of those consult Misplaced Pages on a weekly basis. Unfortunately they didn't tell us what percentage consult EB on a weekly basis... AxelBoldt 02:19, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

There's also a glowing editorial, where they encourage Nature readers to edit - http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051212/full/438890a.html. What's even better is the way this story is spreading, it's currently on the BBC News front page. In a nice touch of irony it even made USA Today! the wub "?!" 12:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Scientific American's blog picked up this story and urges its readers to edit Misplaced Pages: "Do your part, the encyclopedia--and possibly the scientist--of tomorrow depend on it." Samw 17:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Village Voice has an article about this too. Julian Dibbell makes the insightful comment "Of the 42 Misplaced Pages and Britannica articles Nature sent to outside experts for review, the only ones that could be corrected—immediately—by those same experts were Misplaced Pages's." He then says, "Whether those corrections were actually made the report doesn't say"; perhaps someone should try to contact him? Have any corrections been made already? [http://www.villagevoice.com/screens/0552,dibbell,71299,28.html ] ‣ᓛᖁ♀ᑐ 02:46, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Slashdot states someone here compared the length of the Misplaced Pages end EB articles. Did someone? What were the results? Michael Rasmussen

George W. Bush edit history

Looking at the full history of the article, which I wouldn't recommend anyone else do (my browser was taking up 480MB of memory after the page loaded), I counted various vandalism reversion terms, and came out to just over 6,000. Assuming that each vandalism consisted of only one edit, that comes out to be (after some tedious calculation) over 12,000 edits related only to vandalism. This article has nearly 26,000 edits to date.

Additionally, over 10,600 edits were by anonymous users, leaving 15400 for registered users.

More fun facts: 249 edits were made in 2002, 555 in 2003, and 5533 in 2004. In 2005, we're up to 19,630. — ₀₉₁₈ • 2005-12-16 22:43

Here's my quick, half-baked thought after reading that: There really needs to be a way to audit edit histories to remove obvious vandalism. Vandalism, while being reverted quickly, can easily make edit histories unusable. (certainly there must be a reason why this hasn't happened yet) — Ambush Commander 23:00, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Abuse happens ("It's just an anonymous user and I don't like what he said, so I'll rollback"). Mistakes happen ("Whoops, wrong article"). And when there are subsequent vandal edits, it is quite often the case that one vandalism is rolled back, but another one is missed. I've seen this on the Wiki article where an entire section was lost for months because of a poorly done revert. I agree we need better ways to look at page histories. Hiding is not the solution, but perhaps color coding or dynamic client-side filtering (like the enhanced Special:Recentchanges) based on certain criteria could work. If you have any ideas, a mock-up of a better design would help, I think.

On the original comment: I believe this is exactly a case where semi-protection might be warranted; the article is so highly exposed and so political that there are just too many poor edits. If not semi-protection, the anonymous edits should be delayed before becoming visible at the very least, otherwise the risk of a casual reader encountering a vandalized version is too great.--Eloquence* 21:53, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

one possibility would be delayed cleaning of edit history. We could have bots that remove rolled-back edits from the edit history, if they were not in turned reverted back (so that edit wars will not be removed from he edit history), for edits, say, more than one week old. You'll have the full history for the past week, but both the vandal edit and the rollback will be gone from the edit history for times further back. This will result in much cleaner histories for prominent articles, and it will remove much offensive material that today can be linked to as a diff. dab (ᛏ) 09:06, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Collaborative research effort into QuakeAID, WikipediaClassAction.org, baou.com, Wikipedophilia.com and others

You may have heard about the "class action lawsuit" against Misplaced Pages (http://www.wikipediaclassaction.org - .com is a parody). You may also have heard that this "lawsuit" is linked to QuakeAID, an alleged charity soliciting donations for earthquake victims. You may know that Wikipedians have raised many doubts about the legitimacy of this charity, and have linked it to a convicted fraudster, Greg Lloyd Smith.

Finally, you may be aware that "QuakeAID" is publishing, through its associated BAOU.com / OfficialWire site (currently still indexed by Google News), one article after the other against Misplaced Pages. A recent one has described Misplaced Pages as a breeding ground for pedophiles, and is linked to another recently created campaign website, Wikipedophilia.com. (You probably do not know that the same news wire also publishes stories endorsing Holocaust deniers Zündel and Faurisson.)

More is probably to come. BAOU.com, "QuakeAID"'s parent company, seems to be trying to do everything possible to discredit Misplaced Pages, after Misplaced Pages has discredited QuakeAID. I think it's time for them to learn that wikis have teeth.

This is a very, very serious issue and not just some troll setting up anti-wiki websites. QuakeAID has been, for some time, listed in major charity directories, and people wanting to donate money for the 2004 tsunami victims were sent there. I don't know how much money they received, but it must be substantial.

If this charity is a fraud (and that part is not certain at this point), it's a large scale operation (registered with the IRS), and the person running it should be put behind bars. So if you've ever fancied yourself a private detective or investigative reporter, this is your chance:

Wikinews is conducting a full and thorough investigation into all matters related to QuakeAID and BOAU.com. I have tried to accumulate all the information in Misplaced Pages and elsewhere in one place, but I will not have time to commit myself beyond this. So this will either sink or swim with your involvement. If the evidence is solid, we can publish this story, and send a nice dossier to the FBI. If we don't do anything, BAOU.com will continue its anti-wiki campaign, or disappear quietly.

If you do want to join the effort of researching this, please visit the Wikinews project talk page, which includes all the background information we have so far.

This is a historic chance for the Wikinews, Misplaced Pages and blog communities to work together. Let's not screw it up.--Eloquence* 05:06, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

• BAD IDEA! If Misplaced Pages wants to prepare a defence against the law suit (if its real) then great, do that. Even if this law suit isn't real, its likely that someone at some stage will launch one. Do that. As for trying to "bring them down", I think that's a very bad idea. The IRS should be doing that, or perhaps the FBI. They already know about it and have chosen not to respond. Misplaced Pages should not be involved. It is of no concern to Misplaced Pages. Doing so amounts to revenge, and is very likely to put Misplaced Pages in a very bad light. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 10:27, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

QuakeAID/BAOU is a very complex setup, apparently based in Mauritius. Greg Lloyd Smith has been involved in similar operations for years without consequences. Yes, the FBI should be investigating him, but it is likely that nobody has brought a detailed enough complaint against Smith. So it makes sense for the news media to investigate the issue as well. Wikinews is part of the news media, and could in this instance show the capability of an online community to research complex facts. That BAOU are publishing false information about Misplaced Pages is only of secondary relevance -- remember that the whole thing started when Wikipedians exposed QuakeAID as a likely scam.

The idea that this could harm us is absurd. For one thing, the dubious nature of BAOU is obvious to even a casual observer, given their Holocaust denial articles, their history, etc. If QuakeAID and BAOU are busted as a result of Wikimedia activities, then this will only help Wikimedia to be taken seriously, will instantly diminish all of BAOU's anti-Wikimedia activities, and will, most importantly, be a morally desirable result. Finally, we are so far only researching and not publishing. If, after all our research, the operation does turn out to be politically questionable but legitimate, then that, too, is a result we should publish, and make it clear that we follow an NPOV approach to journalism. As a journalist with investigative reporting experience, I can tell you that taking a negative attitude is unhelpful and unwarranted in this instance.--Eloquence* 22:08, 19 December 2005 (UTC) (edited 21:20, 20 December 2005 (UTC))

What about this Wikipedophilia.com garbage? This stuff is irresponsible, ridiculous, and as crass as can be. If there is any collaberative effort to combat this trash, I seriously want in. They haven't got any grounds to attack Misplaced Pages like this. Those articles are a mess though, but there are simply too many emotional individuals on both sides of the issue to make any serious attempt at making them balanced (I've looked and tried, but have left it for now, as it's over my head). Any comments appreciated, because I think they are just using this as an angle to attack Misplaced Pages, and it makes me pretty sick. --DanielCD 15:14, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

"Misplaced Pages Founder Edits Own Bio"

Wired: Misplaced Pages Founder Edits Own Bio

One of the edits seems to be .

This is not appropritate, as clearly stated at Misplaced Pages:Autobiography. People should not edit articles about themselves in this way, but should note problems on the talk page and let other people fix the problems. Jimbo should have known better :/. Thue | talk 08:43, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Eh. I knew about this before, and I still don't think it's a big deal- Jimbo understands WP:NPOV and WP:AUTO (after all, they were his ideas..), and it's perfectly fine for him to help the encyclopedia more directly like this.--Sean|Black 09:05, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I maintain that the restrictions of WP:AUTO are, at best, redundant and, at worst, harmful. The primary policies of NPOV, verifiability, and no original research already cover any ill that arises from self-edits and are just as easy to police if we insist on having verifiable sources. --Dystopos 14:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

IMO his edits were clearly not in accordance with Misplaced Pages:Autobiography, regardless of that fact that he was the person behind the policy. And I also do support the Misplaced Pages:Autobiography policy, which clearly states make suggestions on the article's talk page and let independent editors write it into the article itself. Thue | talk 17:04, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

My 2 cents is this: WP:AUTO is *WRONG*, and Jimbo Wales did nothing wrong. The reality is that somehow or other we ended up with an untenable rule, which most likely Jimbo didn't approve. I have come up with guidelines which I think should sort out this kind of problem, and, whilst it was more to deal with issues such as Seigenthaler et al, it applies equally as well for this. Please see User:Zordrac/experts for more info. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 22:54, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Um, it seems to me that Jimbo was not actually writing about himself. He was correcting what appeared to be a minor factual error in the discussion of Misplaced Pages history within the article on himself. Just my $0.02. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 02:09, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

The question of "who founded Misplaced Pages?" is contentious. Jimbo is well-aware of that. Replacing "Jimmy Wales and Larry Sanger founded Misplaced Pages..." with "Jimmy Wales is the sole founder of Misplaced Pages." is not an NPOV edit. — David Remahl 06:23, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Parallel situation: Roger Ebert has apparently helped maintain his own article, although he did not create it. See Talk:Roger_Ebert. (Ebert has written about Misplaced Pages in his columns, so it seems safe to assume that was really him making those edits.) --Dhartung | Talk 06:01, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

As somebody who's never edited WP:VP before, nor read Jimmy's Bio, nor read the Bomis article, I am much surprised as I go through past incarnations of Bomis to find that some links are absent, even in mention. It's pretty clear to see how Bomis intended to make money (the old adage, "for a technology to become successful, it must be adopted by the porn industry," seems particularly relevant here) when reading the old edits. However in light of the Wired editorial, and the edit history on that page in particular, I'm pretty disturbed to see its current content. It would seem that people are ashamed of it, or that they are afraid that information (afterall, we are not here to determine what is "appropriate" to print, we are here to catalog) will show something other than the history shows? I don't understand. In fact, the pornographic history of Bomis has become something of lore on the wikipedia -- it is in our corpus.

I am not asking for "accountability" per se. However, as we see the "little green bar" in the medium six-figures range, I do humbly request that we can get past the vanity game. Doesn't Mr. Wales have anything better to do with his time than maintain an "image"? Surely he isn't running for office or anything like that. I don't really think the "little girl in Africa" cares much one way or the other how Bomis made money. Avriette 02:28, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Tigers

Several who have read William Pietri's superbly calm message to the blocked editors of the Simon Wessely article, have hailed it as exemplifying the Wikipedian ideal. I have added it to the Misplaced Pages essays category and given it a home off the talk page. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 22:01, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Offline publication efforts of German Misplaced Pages documented

For those of you interested in publishing an offline Misplaced Pages snapshot, validating articles or moving towards Misplaced Pages-1.0, I have documented the quite successful efforts of the German team at German Misplaced Pages. AxelBoldt 01:34, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

This is pretty interesting. Is there anything in English about the Personendaten metadata idea? Shimgray | talk | 01:45, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Yup, there was a talk about it at Wikimania. AxelBoldt 02:11, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Wow, that sounds just like my Semantic Misplaced Pages proposal. :D Thanks, I will read this closely. --Golbez 02:18, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Personendaten sounds like a very useful idea. I think I'll implement it for the English Misplaced Pages as well. Anyone want to help? Here's a start: Template:Persondata. Kaldari 17:45, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I've added an initial proposal to Village pump (technical) to get the ball rolling. Please comment there. Thanks! Kaldari 18:04, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to go ahead and implement a metadata proof of concept for the English Misplaced Pages. If you'd like to keep track of my efforts, check here: Misplaced Pages:Persondata. Kaldari 23:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Detailed Nature reviewer reports available

The detailed reports from the Nature referees are now available. See:

Misplaced Pages:External peer review/Nature December 2005

Any odds on how long it will be before all of the problems mentioned are addressed (hopefully without introducing new errors)? —Steven G. Johnson 17:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

I've created Misplaced Pages:External peer review/Nature December 2005/Errors from that document now. violet/riga (t) 17:58, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Sitenotice design

As you've probably noticed, the site notice has gone through a lot of iterations recently. You can give feedback on the designs here: MediaWiki talk:Sitenotice. Dan100 (Talk) 09:03, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Metadata proof-of-concept implemented for English Misplaced Pages

First read this article about the success of the German metadata project. Then check out Misplaced Pages:Persondata. If anyone is interested in this project, talk to me on the WikiProject Biography talk page or my personal talk page. Kaldari 15:35, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I've brought this up on the mailing list, so hopefully we'll get some feedback there. There's been a good bit of disucssion recently over biographies, so it's an excellent time... Shimgray | talk | 17:26, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Self-nomination of good articles

Authors usually know best which of their articles qualify as Misplaced Pages:Good articles, yet self-nominations are frowned upon. Now you can propose articles you have worked on at Misplaced Pages:Good articles/Self-nominations so that somebody else can promote them to Good Article status. AxelBoldt 17:07, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

and over on Misplaced Pages:Village_pump_(policy)#Good_Articles you can discuss whether you think Misplaced Pages: Good articles is a good idea.--Samuel J. Howard 02:51, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Moon conspiracy and religion

Searching new page additions on Misplaced Pages: A few days ago I added a new page addition on Misplaced Pages, Moon conspiracy and religion, however when I try to search from the Misplaced Pages search box on say, moon, moon conspiracy, moon landing, moon hoax; the new page addition does not get listed.

Could you tell me please if there is some time lag in the process between a new page addition on Misplaced Pages and the Misplaced Pages search listings?

Thanks

--Wikiencyc 12:43, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Someone has put the new page addition into the fringe category and they say that it lacks references and they want to merge it with another item - Apollo moon landing hoax accusations where in October 2005 all of my contributions got booted out by the tyrants there. I have added a section on References and cited them and would not like the new page addition to be sidelined, excluded from search results or merged where tyrants can delete the content. --Wikiencyc 15:20, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

To answer your queries: The Misplaced Pages search function isn't very good, tbh - I only use it for near-exact article name matches. Try Google with those terms and the word Misplaced Pages. On the other issue, the ability of other users to edit and remove content is what the whole Misplaced Pages is all about, so we can't really help there. You might also want to look at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Moon conspiracy and religion. The Land 19:05, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Boxing day present

Merry Christmas,
Have a look at this first Wikidata application for the GEMET data.. GerardM 19:52, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Irregular Webcomic

Yesterday's Irregular Webcomic! features a Misplaced Pages related punchline.-- Sean Black (talk · contribs) (ask me on my talk if you must)--68.64.65.89 01:23, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Deletion History

• For some reason, Non-sysop users can no longer view deletion histories.

As far as I know that was turned off intentionally. -- Chris 73 | Talk 13:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

This change was announced in the mailing list . - Liberatore(T) 14:08, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Free Republic's plans for mass invasion

See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1549132/posts. User:Zoe| 17:44, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Even though I'm a liberal, it would be good to have some more conservative editors around. If we got support from both sides of the political spectrum, it would improve the POV problems and help make Misplaced Pages much more accepted. Though they probably are reacting to the tilt that comes with any international project. To them, the rest of the world is biased to the left (or the US is biased to the right). Since about half of the 'pedia is writen outside of the US, it tends to reflect that.--Rayc

And even though I'm an arch-conservative, freepers scare the hell out of me. :P --Golbez 19:25, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

• The system of "balanced" reporting to counter journalistic bias is not appropriate to Misplaced Pages. First of all, that practice promotes diametric thinking and obscures any idea which doesn't intersect a linear left/right spectrum. Second, Misplaced Pages requires a single neutral point of view, NOT a balance of opposing points of view. Editorial collaboration should push neutrality by eliminating, rather than balancing, biases. --Dystopos 23:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages chief considers taking ads

Story in the Times has Jimmy Wales saying he is thinking about adding ads, are we just finding out about this again? - cohesion★talk 19:14, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

See User talk:Jimbo Wales#Say it ain't so, Jimbo! for Jimbo's response. --GraemeL 19:29, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

As a participant in the Misplaced Pages:Wikiproject no ads, I'm not surprised at all. When 100's of Wikipedians made such a storm about the Answers.com deal, we asked for more information about the details of the deal signed, the possible amount of revenue the deal would establish, and the personal and economic relationships between Answers.com and the Wikimedia board members. We have received practically no official response to these questions, and I'm still not sure what will happen on January 1, the official "start" date of the new Answers.com "Misplaced Pages edition." It's possible that the recent controversies and newly apparent liability issues have deterred the board from adding this new "prominently" placed link, but we will have to see. One would think that the success of the fundraising drive would cut against this option, but Mr. Wales may have other plans for Misplaced Pages's future. The structure of the organization still gives him the final say. Tfine80 19:35, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

The best way, IMO, for Misplaced Pages to make money is to sell products. Misplaced Pages-branded stuff, books, CDs for schools, etc. Donations are also great, too. Ads are right out - Britannica and World Book don't put up with that. --Golbez 19:40, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/search/search.aspx?q=Misplaced Pages User:Zoe| 21:47, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for clearing that up, looks like the media is taking things out of context as usual, haha - cohesion★talk 19:45, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages micronation - Tirben

Hi everyone, a group of us have decided to form a Misplaced Pages-community micronation. The name of it is Tirben, our IRC channel is #tirben on Freenode, and our website is at tirben.starglade.org. All wikipedians are invited to join and help us in creating our constitution! Talrias (t | e | c) 23:31, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

It's not a real micronation until its vanity article has been through VFD at least twice.--Samuel J. Howard 09:09, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

New batch of peer-reviewed articles citing Misplaced Pages

In the last couple of days I have searched around a bit and found about 70 new peer-reviewed academic articles that cite Misplaced Pages as a reference. As always, they're listed on Misplaced Pages:Wikipedia_as_an_academic_source. One article, "Postmodern public administration: in the shadow of Postmodernism" by Cheryl King cites Misplaced Pages for the definition of "postmodern". Postmodern, indeed. AxelBoldt 08:33, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

NekoDaemon & soft redirect {{categoryredirect}}

To prevent over abuse of {{categoryredirect}}, any category page using this template must have the last person who edited the page to be an administrator. It is presumed that the last person who edited is an administrator and added the template (which may not be the entire case, but under the given circumstances, at least it was an administrator who did review the category before making his or her edit making him or her the last person to edit that page). It is preferable that administrators protect category pages using this soft redirect, but not required. The reasons behind this is to insure that some kind of CFD discussion has at least taken place when the soft redirect is used, due the fact that involves the mass changing of articles in a category. The other reason is that the community already has entrusted administrators to make wise decisions, so I feel that any administrator using this soft redirect can respond for his or her actions when using this soft redirect. The bot has also reflected its comments by listing the last user who edited the page, which must be an administrator. --AllyUnion (talk) 12:09, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm confused, are you proposing this, or saying it is the case? Your verb tenses suggest this has already happened, but the rest of your words make it sound like a proposal. I don't see how this is to be enforced: what is to stop anyone from simply placing {{categoryredirect}} on a page? Very confusing. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:34, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

I think AllyUnion is talking about the behavior of the bot mentioned at the top of Template_talk:Categoryredirect. Apparently, that bot will automatically move articles from a category containing the {{categoryredirect}} template to the new category only if the last edit of the original one was by an administrator. AxelBoldt 00:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if sounded confusing. The bot has been doing this for some time now. The latter portion of what I was suggesting was that administrators should protect any page using {{categoryredirect}} once they use it. The reason is as AxelBoldt has stated. --AllyUnion (talk) 10:53, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Harvard Cyberlaw Course starting; needs help

Harvard Law School is starting a Cyberlaw course this week (prof: Jonathan Zittrain). They're using Misplaced Pages as a case study for part of it... I'm encouraging them to create accounts and edit, as part of getting to know what kinds of social and policy issues editors face.

You can track their progress, and account creation, at the Cyberlaw Wikiproject. Please keep an eye on their group user pages, and help them get their feet wet without running afoul of too many local customs. (Though half the fun for them may be seeing how policy like VfD and cleanup-notification is implemented...) You can leave any q's about the project on my talk page. Cheers, +sj + 18:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages article in January 9 edition of Newsweek

Online here: Yet it says that Misplaced Pages has 2.6 BILLION articles! Tfine80 19:51, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Didn't you know? Because of the Asian bandwidth deal we got from Google, everyone in China gets a vanity page, built from the identity card database. The Land 20:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

New critique of Misplaced Pages

Somebody previously posted here a link to a new critique of Misplaced Pages, and user Carnildo promptly removed it as a "link spam". What in the world is a "link spam"? A link to an article critical of Misplaced Pages? I personally found the article hugely entertaining and its criticism often right on target. But your mileage may vary, of course. In any case, I don't see why posting a link to it here would constitute a "spam". There are many other links being posted here, and not being removed. Shame on you, Carnildo. FrankZappo 01:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

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