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Revision as of 13:45, 22 January 2010

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Many thanks,  Roger Davies 04:24, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Military history coordinator elections: voting has started!

Voting in the Military history WikiProject coordinator election has now started. The aim is to elect the coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of sixteen candidates. Please vote here by 23:59 (UTC) on 26 September!
For the coordinators,  Roger Davies 22:09, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

KIA-sign

Hello I restored the crosses behind the dead Ottoman leaders at the Battle of Kosovo-article. It might be true that muslims have their own sign, but the old Romans at the Battle of Carrhae and the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest, the greek commander at the Battle of Marathon or the Japanese commander at the Battle of Peleliu weren't Christians either. And still they got crosses behind their name. Thus, I see no reason why muslims should get a different treatment.Jeff5102 (talk) 11:41, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

By the way, see also Dagger (typography).Jeff5102 (talk) 07:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I see what you mean. However, the 1948 Arab–Israeli War uses Daggers again. I guess we should go to the WP:PUMP to discuss this. I am not familiar enough with habits in the islamic world, or in military history to make such a decision on my own.Jeff5102 (talk) 12:01, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi. please see the discussion on Misplaced Pages:Village pump (policy) I started. It seems you can revert the Battle of Kosovo-article back in the way you liked it. Regards, Jeff5102 (talk) 07:07, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing your information with us! With regards/greetings Jeff5102 (talk) 20:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Assault on Turkish encampment.jpg

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Skanderbeg

What is problem with that source? Why did you remove data. There is 3 sources about that there. Do you know something more? Please, share with me? :) All best, --Tadija (talk) 18:12, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I reverted version. Just search internet. There are tones of sources about that. Viosava, the servian princess. I put two more of those, but if you want we can place more. If i can help you any kind, i am here. :All best, --Tadija (talk) 19:50, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Your sources won't work. They're written in an era known for its wild generalizations. It would be best to find primary documents or the most modern works concerning Scanderbeg's mother.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 22:07, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

I am sorry, but can you explain that to me? You are saying that all those books are nothing more that wild generalization?

Those authors:

• Alexander W. Hidden
• Hans Ferdinand Helmolt (Already used as source in Misplaced Pages)
• Charles Francis Richardson (Already used as source in Misplaced Pages)
• Selim Hobart Peabody (Already used as source in Misplaced Pages)
• Robert Elsie (Already used as source in Misplaced Pages)
• Harry Thurston Pech
• Viscount James Bryce Bryce (Already used as source in Misplaced Pages)
• Holland Thompson
• Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie (Already used as source in Misplaced Pages)

are just generalizing in wild manner? And all of them think that Voisava was Serbian princess.

I am assuming your good faith, so where is consensus that rejected all of them as sources? And why are most of them already used in wast number of articles as sources then? Waiting for good answer... :) --Tadija (talk) 20:30, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Also, i just see this (Talk:Skanderbeg#Summerize_the_Serbian_claims). On the talk page it was already agreed that Serbian princess should be included. I am waiting for your reply, and then we will revert together. Unless you give me some rock strong reason that will explain removal of that data. Be good. --Tadija (talk) 20:42, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Why would you risk the neutrality of the page by stating a nationality? Her family origins are all that's needed. Imagine what mess would come out of putting "Serbia, Serbia, Serbia, Srpija, Srbija, Srbja, Srpska" all over a page about an Albanian national hero! Notice how nobody puts in anything saying "the Albanian princess Voisava"! Notice how no-one tries to say that Milos Obilic (Milosh Kopiliq) is Albanian even though Robert Elsie says he is! Notice how nobody says that the Balsic (Balsha) family is Albanian even though several modern scholars believe so! Notice how nobody tries to connect Karageorge to the Albanian Kelmendi clan even though there are scholars that maintain this! My point is, if you put in archaic claims on Voisava's ethnicity (which are far from fully known), a woman whose only role in history was to be the mother of Skanderbeg, then you are only violating Misplaced Pages's neutrality. Furthermore, Skanderbeg was, is, and will always be Albanian no matter what his mother's ethnicity is. He fought for Albania, he bled for Albania, he died for Albania. He did nothing for Serbia just like those Serbian heroes did nothing for Albania. Therefore, there is no point in mentioning Voisava's nationality (which could have been Albanian, Serbian, Bulgarian, or Italian) as long as her family origins are mentioned, which they are. If the reader wishes to learn about the Tribalda family, then he is unfortunate because little is known about them. If a reader wants to learn about the Muzaka family, plenty of articles on Misplaced Pages explain their role in history. Furthermore, a person from the Middle Ages would identify more with their clan or noble ancestry than their nationality.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 21:59, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

Actual, i agree with some of your attitudes, but i am sorry, regarding this, you dont have any arguments why we should remove this information. Both of us know who much is this information important. Misplaced Pages will be neutral only if we place there just sourced and true data. --Tadija (talk) 15:58, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

There is no point. My previous argument will stand even if I can't provide an counterargument for what you said.--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 21:29, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

I suppose that you are aware that unreferenced revert can be sanctioned. You are asking to delete sourced information because of nationalist claims. That is pointless. He will not be less Albanian Hero with Serbian mother, after all this time... --Tadija (talk) 16:32, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Please tell me specifically where those above-mentioned authors say Voisava is Serbian. Currently, the two citations given are both insufficient. As per WP:RS, Tertiary sources such as compendia, encyclopedias, textbooks, and other summarizing sources may be used to give overviews or summaries, but should not be used in place of secondary sources for detailed discussion. Therefore, one needs to bring a detailed and authoritative work in order to deal with such a controversial issue. Fan Noli could be an example of this and WP:RS gives permission to use his work: Finished Ph.D. dissertations, which are publicly available, are considered publications by scholars and are routinely cited in footnotes. They have been vetted by the scholarly community; most are available via interlibrary loan. Fan Noli maintains that Voisava could be Albanian in his work which, according to WP:RS, is authoritative. (See for more info.)--Gaius Claudius Nero (talk) 19:43, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

• The World's History: South-eastern and eastern Europe, By Hans Ferdinand Helmolt ()
• Chambers's encyclopaedia: a dictionary of universal knowledge, Volume 7 ()
• The Ottoman dynasty: a history of the sultans of Turkey from the earliest authentic record to the present time, with notes on the manners and customs of the people, by Alexander W. Hidden ()
• The International cyclopedia: a compendium of human knowledge, rev. with large additions, Volume 13, by Charles Francis Richardson, Selim Hobart Peabody ()
• The Book of History: Eastern Europe to the French revolution, by Viscount James Bryce Bryce, Holland Thompson, Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie ()
• The Standard American encyclopedia of arts, sciences, history, biography, geography, statistics, and general knowledge, by John Clark Ridpath ()
• ...

Few more? :) :) :) Be good. -Tadija (talk) 23:06, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Tadija explain me how in the world Tripalda can be a Serbian last name. I really want to know. Can it be that she's called a servian princess just because some people from England looked at the map where Polog and Tetovo is and they found that the land belonged to Prince Marko (Marko Kraljević)? Since you have been changing names all over wikipedia for Gjakova into Djakovica and Peja into Pec, can you find a source where she is called Tripaldic?sulmues (talk) --Sulmues 22:52, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

There is a numerous Serbs that are not -ić at the end of their surname. Especially earlier. That argument of yours doesn't mean a lot. Also, that changes are agreed by consensus. You should change it also. Sulmues, at least try to assume good faith. --Tadija (talk) 10:21, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I am very aware how the greek-serbian coalition reaches consensus (read bring to ANI or rouge admins all the Albanians that don't comply). I've been the victim of those "consensuses" by getting bans as many Albanians have at your hands. If all the new Albanian editors are banned they better not assume good faith. Actually they better presume bad faith so that they know what they're dealing with, otherwise it'll be a nightmare for them. sulmues (talk)--Sulmues 13:45, 22 January 2010 (UTC)