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About this talk page

Misplaced Pages aims to be a valuable encyclopedic resource. A dispute about the nationality of Pyrros Dimas is a topic that may be dscussed here. However, I would expect this to be a dispute about facts as established by credible references. Please respect Misplaced Pages and do not post your personal opinions, enlightened or not, about Greeks and Albanians here.

Rule of thumb: If your feel your comment or edit defends a Greek or an Albanian perspective, then you shoud probably not post it. Our freedom to discuss and edit articles in Wkipedia is not there to help us ensure articles have our own prefered bias; it is for us to avoid any such bias. While a certain degree of additional freedom is afforded in talk pages, please do no abuse it. If you want to dispute or add facts and credible references that make Misplaced Pages a better encyclopedia, then by all means go ahead. But please read the Misplaced Pages guidelines first.

Miltiadis Kokkonidis (talk) 11:45, 14 February 2010 (UTC)

Biographies of living persons rules

Misplaced Pages is not here to decide what Mr Dimas is. Pyrros Dimas considers himself an ethnic Greek, being Greece's flagbearer at two Olympics, including Athens 2004. Respect his right to self-determination.

If he says he is Chinese, do we just accept it ? So give me a break.

I added a census that shows all Dhimas had Albanian Catholic names. DDo not remove it, but you may change the wording here and there.

Keep it Fake (talk) 06:58, 3 March 2010 (UTC) We must say he is white and not a mexican. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.25.139.57 (talk) 00:28, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Other

Pyrros Dimas real name is Pirro Dhima and he is albanian from Albania.

As the article states he was born in Albania but is of Greek descent, just as Naim Suleymanoglu was born in Bulgaria but is of Turkish descent. There is a substantial Greek minority in southern Albania mainly in cities like Himara, Korce, Saranda and others. Kalambaki2 13:27, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Albania has a small Greek minority when we took in your communist Greeks after your civil war, whether or not Pirro Dhima was a Greek or not is unimportant, he was born in Albania and thats where he grew up. He only migrated to Greece in order to profit from weightlifting. (dr.ilir)

i have also removed your northern epirus bit because it is insulting to my people.

Insulting is also to be afraid to put down your signature. If you feel offended by the term 'North Epirus' I'm sorry, according to wiki standarts you should not. Read the NPOV sectionAlexikoua (talk) 14:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

'I'm from... ugh, let me check my passport.

Nationality in sport, once clear-cut, has become seriously muddied following the break-up of the Soviet bloc and the increasing transfer of talent from poor to rich countries. example:

Greece naturalized Albanian Pyrros Dimas in 1992 and he went on to win three Olympic weightlifting golds.Dimas born in Himara, Albania to parents of Greek origin, and emigrated to Greece in 1991.--Taulant23 00:13, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Greek or Albanian

Has Pyrros Dimas ever called himself Albanian?

Furthermore, Albanians must really have money problems if there are 1.2 million of them in Greece (which I'm sure entered illegally), and hopefully when Greece has an Albanian president, hopeful he would have migrated legitimately and not just stroll over the border.

Lastly, yes you are correct, whatever Greece does (e.g. use names at a nationalistic level) MUST have territorial aspirations, because NO OTHER country does except Greece.

To conclude....... blah, blah, blah, blah.

Φilhellenism 06:42, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Looks like Greece has even more money problems "Leonidas Jr," what's your debt now, $500 Billion? Albania being poor has nothing do with his real ethnicity.

07:00, 3 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Keep it Fake (talk • contribs)

Why are u Greeks afraid of? Why the place where he was born make u guys afraid? Like Alesandros, wtever people can say, he fought for Greece so why does it matter so much where was he born. In Albania,Pyrros or Pirro got his education,trained hard, migrated to Greece in order to profit from weightlifting.

But Greece gave him a lot, and by the way YES, he worked hard for himself and for the name of Greece.--Taulant23 22:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Have you actually got a source about his parents being Albanian? There is a Greek minority in Southern Albania, unless you haven't been informed. I agree with the Albanian name being added to the article, after all he was born there, but the Greek parents statement stays unless you find proof. Please provide it, otherwise I'll revert it in 12h. Kalambaki2 23:09, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Well I know his parentsa are Albanian,his mom is still in Albania.She lives in their 3 stories house--71.103.71.211 04:51, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

He was born in Tirana, Albania. His parents were from Himara. You can read here that he was from Tirana and went to Greece when he was 20, but before he was a European Master weightlifter for Albana. sulmues --Sulmues 16:08, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

According to ]] and this ]] he was born in Himara. Also his official site confirms this ]Alexikoua (talk) 17:07, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing these sources. Actually I am starting to believe that he was born in Elbasan, because that's where he did his schools. Furthermore there was an excellent team of weightlifters in Elbasan, if I remember well, Agron Haxhihyseni was from there. I give up. I think he's lying about where he was born. I just think his family came from there. And I'll tell you why I think he is lying. He was born in 1971. In that time changing residency was practically IMPOSSIBLE in Albania, so it's very unlikely that he was born in Himara. He is building his image of Greek by claiming he is born in Himara, but that is very very unlikely. However given your evidence I reverted myself and I'm ok that he is presented as being born in Himara. Please make those references better for me as I don't know any Greek. sulmues --Sulmues 18:51, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

This is his official website and it states that he was born in Himara , its one of the references in the article. Is he lying?Megistias (talk) 19:18, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

This one ] says that he was born in Himara, but he grew up in Tirana. @Sulmues I really appreciate your constructive efforts here. Morevover it seems you are partly right, since Dimas lived for some years in Tirana, although not born there.Alexikoua (talk) 20:33, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

Improve this article!

There is a wikipedia photo of Pyrros here, but no matter how I tried I couldn't paste in this article. If someone could be so kind... additionally, Pyrros has a special relationship with Litohoro in Pieria... I think his wife is from there, but I'm not certain, if someone could also clarify this and add it. Thanx! This guy DESERVES a good article. Kalambaki2 18:29, 23 August 2007 (UTC) Well I got the pic from the article but because its in Greek it wont let me use it in this article.--Taulant23 23:57, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't make you fall in love with the Albanians or Greeks.

I can't make you fall in love with the Albanians or Greeks, nor can I make all of my fellow Albanians fall in love with you. But like it or not, we are FIRST COUSINS! and it's a sad thing to hate your ethnic relatives more than you hate the Slavic or Ottomans invaders.There is lots of confusion and ignorance, but things can change and I think Albanian immigrants could play a key role there.Albania and Greece are helping each other more and more these days. By the way, the albanian origin of the Arvanites or even Pyrros Dimas(Pirro Dhima) only STRENGHTENS Greek/Albanian affinity, it doesn't weaken it.--Taulant23 23:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

If that's the case, then they (Albanians) can apply for a visa and come to the country (Greece) legitimately, not by jumping the boarders and stilling jobs by working for a fraction of the salary, that's why there is this hostility.... they just walk into to Greece and do their on bloody ting.

Φilhellenism 06:36, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

p.s. Pyrros is Greek, not Albanian.

Personal Best numbers are utterly wrong. None can squat more than they deadlift! Also, 330Kg squat is rediculous. Where did you get these numbers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.75.8.167 (talk) 07:40, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Why is it ridiculous? There are videos on youtube of Eduardo Guadamud (only 5-9 kilos heavier than Dimas) squating 310 kg x 2. And it looks easy to him. So ask yourself why wouldn't such an elite lifter like Dimas squat 330 for a 1rm? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.101.94.173 (talk) 23:48, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Squat

Pyrros Dimas has declared in an interview that he squated 100 kg at age 7,5 years old. interview, "Ξεκίνησα να ασχολούμαι με την άρση βαρών σε ηλικία επτάμισι ετών. Είχα όμως κάτι πόδια… Την πρώτη κιόλας μέρα που πήγα στο γυμναστήριο, έκανα 100 κιλά σε βαθύ κάθισμα."Megistias (talk) 16:18, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

POV-pushing using bogus sources

www.ramimemushaj.com is *not* a valid source. Athenean (talk) 08:16, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes it is. He is a professor at the University of Tirana. Per wp:RS scholars can be used. --sulmues (talk) 02:46, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

His Professional honors, awards, grants, etc. include the following

Tempus Grant, University of Bremen, Germany (November - December 1995)

TRNS Grant, University of Roskilde, Denmark (July - September 1993)

Fulbright Research Grant, University of California, Berkeley Campus (Sept. 1992 - May 1993)

Cited Foreign Expert, Beijing Foreign Studies University (January 1991)

The 3-rd Class "Naim Frashëri" Order, University of Tirana (1989)

The "Naim Frashëri" Medal, Vlora, Albania (1970)

The "Naim Frashëri" grant as an excellent student (1965 - 1967)

Between his positions are the following:

Editor in chief of the Journal "Studime Albanologjike" 2004~

Editor of the Journal "Studime Albanologjike" 1996 - 2004

Editor of the Journal "Gjuha Jonë" 1995 - 1998

I wish people brought some more scholars like Prof Memushaj in Misplaced Pages. --sulmues (talk) 02:49, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

No, go read WP:RS. To be considered RS, something needs to be published by a reputable publishing house. Self-published essays such as this one are NOT WP:RS. It will be removed. Athenean (talk) 02:51, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

So tell us why are those names are incorrect? They are after all in a Turkish census. Why don't you like the truth athenian? Wait until you find out about Vangjel Zhapa and Sotir Nini. We know that Pirro he has a reason to lie about his ethnicity, so we're posting the other side. If he said he was Albanian what would happen to his popularity in Greece?

Keep it Fake (talk) 03:31, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Removed claim about financial gains. Too personal and no scholar has ever supported that. We know it's true, but it's not encyclopedic. However the Dhima family origin is well supported. They were from Kruje and came in the 15th century to Himara. --sulmues (talk) 05:43, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Actually, the origin is not well supported. All you have proved is that the surname also appears on Albanian genealogical records. It doesn't actually prove that the man himself has ethnic origins other than what he himself claims. I'm sure that he is just as proud to be Greek and Albanian. But his parents are Greek. Nipsonanomhmata 06:01, 6 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nipsonanomhmata (talk • contribs)

If you had read the source you'd find that not only his parents, but also his grandparents, greatgrandparents and so on up to the 16th century at least were Albanians. The source investigates the last name of Dhima in Himare specifically. The Dhima house as many other houses in Himare are from Kruje and Mirdita and have come to settle there when Skanderbeg died. --sulmues (talk) 05:00, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

You were explicitly told on the BLP noticeboard that since the source doesn't specifically mention Pyrros Dimas, it shouldn't be used and anything in it is irrelevant. So stop disrupting and pretending like nothing happened. Athenean (talk) 07:04, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Per Manual of Style the lead paragraph is wrong

You are getting many IP address changes and they are not that wrong. Many people feel offended when they read this article and Misplaced Pages rightly has very good policies in this regard.

Currently the article is reading as follows:

Pyrros Dimas (Greek: Πύρρος Δήμας born in October 13, 1971) is a Greek weightlifter and three-time Olympic champion.

Very good, no one is lying there. No one is saying he does not hold a Greek passport. But there is a problem: This is against the Misplaced Pages policy here Misplaced Pages:Manual_of_Style_(biographies)#Opening_paragraph. According to this policy for Nationality & ethnicity normally the article should state in the normal case this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen or national, or was a citizen when the person became notable.

Let's take them one by one.

1. The country of which the person is citizen: Pirro Dhima has a double nationality, both Albanian and Greek, so the article should say Greek-Albanian or Albanian-Greek, rather than simply Greek. Pirro Dhima still has his Albanian passport and has not given up his citizenship: Has properties in Albania and is a both a full Albanian and Greek citizen, in other words he has dual citizenship.
2. Was a citizen when the person became notable: Pirro Dhima became notable in Albania. As stated in the Victories_with_Albania section, as per "this version" he was already famous when he was a European Master as awarded by the European Weightlifting Federation, in addition he was part of the Albanian National Team which placed 3rd in Europe (after URSS and Bulgaria) in the 69th Evropean Weightlifting Championship (in Alborg, Denmark May 1990) and 2nd (after 1st placed Bulgaria) for the European Cup for nations (in Antalia, Turkey, December 1990). Pirro Dhima when he became famous was Albanian and held no Greek citizenship.

If we follow the second criterion, we should say that he was Albanian. To my fellow editors to pick whether we should say Albanian or Albanian-Greek. Ethnicity should be mentioned in the opening paragraph as it is important for the subject's notability.

Thank you!

1. http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/NewSport/PyrrosDimas.html

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