Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 20:25, 19 January 2006

Bullets

No, this isn't a threat. I'm just letting you know I added the bullet "This Wikipedian is a Christian" and the category "Christian Wikipedians" to your user page. I hope you don't mind. You should explore Wikipedian categories. I've got several on my talk page. Harvestdancer 23:38, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. --Jason Gastrich 01:06, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Christian Rock

I'm not the anon user that made all those changes, but I think he or she was trying to remove those contemporary Christian music artists that shouldn't be described as "rock". Jpers36 00:54, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jpers36. Nice to meet you. I've spent a lot of time on the Christian rock entry and the artists that are listed can be considered Christian rock. There might be a couple that are marginal, but as a rule, I didn't include any gospel, rap, or hip hop artists. The ones that were included fit the entry. God bless, Jason --Jason Gastrich 01:00, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Richard Kiel and Christians in Entertainment

Hello; I believe you added the Christian Actors Category to Richard Kiel. I wondered if you were aware there was a bit of an edit war over it.I've already reverted back twice in favor of the category. http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Richard_Kiel&action=history

http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Richard_Kiel

Also I was wondering if you might be interested in this? http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Deletion_review#Category:List_of_Christian_Entertainers --California 12 11:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments on the RK page.They were level headed and got the point across.I am shocked at how anti-Christian bias is rearing it's ugly head at wikipedia.Are there any areas where Christians at wiki are speaking out about this? Take a look at the intro on this page- http://en.wikipedia.org/List_of_christians Look at this sentence "Croaking along in it's own righteousness?" What a shame that people need to use a supposedly neutral internet site to spread their prejudice.

--California 12 12:36, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

WarriorScribe's deceit and poor personal research

While occasionally poorly worded WarriorScribe's perspective isn't merely held by him and his friends. Since LBU is unaccredited its entirely reasonable to question the academic credentials they bestow. I'm uncertain how WS & friends being in a minority or LBU statistics changes that. The entry indeed does not define LBU as a dimploma mill, but rather states "some assert" it is. Of course there is good reason to object to that as its a weasle term, and indeed no verified source is cited. And yes, I agree the actual criteria should be mentioned. Please make further suggestions on the article talk page... I appreciate you would like to correspond with me, but my talk page just turns into another battleground; which is okay, but little is accomplished and the discussion gets fragmented... which is not okay. cc'd to article talk page. - RoyBoy 05:56, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

No personal headings

Per Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks, please do not personally address headings to people on talk pages. Article talk pages should be used for discussing the articles, not their contributors. Headings on article talk pages should be used to facilitate discussion by indicating and limiting topics related to the article. For instance, you could make a header whose title describes in a few words one problem you have with the article. This will make it easy for people to address that issue, work towards consensus, and eventually resolve the issue or dispute and improve the article. If you need to reach another user please go to their user talk page. Thanks. -Will Beback 06:00, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

• Hi Will, I didn't know this was a rule. Thanks for letting me know. RoyBoy has addressed me on the LBU talk page, so I went to his talk page and addressed him there. However, he moved my response to the LBU talk page. This is why I addressed him with a heading on the LBU talk page. I'm happy to comply with the rule, though.

By the way, what is your opinion on whether or not LBU is a diploma mill? It seems that you have been following the conversation without giving your opinion on the talk page.

--Jason Gastrich 06:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Inclusionists

I doubt whether yuckfoo cares about them being Christian entries. He consistently votes to keep everything. You could use that to your advantage. They are known as inclusionists. David D. (Talk) 06:54, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Seriously. Gastrich needs to stop accusing people of things and try to understand the Wiki camps of inclusionists and deletionists). Mark K. Bilbo 19:40, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Jason I've voted on 2, but I'm just to tired to finish tonight. I'll visit the others tomorrow. I must say the swarm of deletions is weird.Did he have an argument with you on any talk pages before this started? If so you need to include that in your vandalism report, it would show his motivation.This is very important. California 12 02:14 18 January 2006(UTC)

Thanks California. According to his posts, he has a problem with fundamentalist Christianity. He has only been on Misplaced Pages (with "A.J.A.") for about 3 weeks. He could even be a sockpuppet. Who knows. --Jason Gastrich 21:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I do? A.J.A. 22:10, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Jason, you may want to correct these edits, they are clearly not an accurate reflection of the number of times they are cited on the web. 17 million hits in google and 11 million hits in google. David D. (Talk) 10:42, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Jason do you want to ask someone from the mediation cabal if it would be permissible to merge the articles that are deleted into the LBU article? This may be your best shot for the lesser known people and the LBU list. California 12 02:58 18 January 2006(UTC)

I should add this, I seriously doubt if they are going to count my vote anyway California 12 03:34 18 January 2006(UTC)

I see no reason why your vote would not be counted, why would you think this? By the way you are still not using the four tildes (~~~~) to sign your talk posts. If you are going to write your signature long hand it should look like this ] not like this ]. David D. (Talk) 18:18, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Using google

Please cite accurate numbers for google searches in the future. I've looked through a series of your recent contribution on AfD pages, and all the google search numbers you cite are wildly inflated. You say, for example, that Thomas Ice googles to over 17 million hits, but the answer is in fact around 40,000.

When you google for

Thomas Ice

you are getting all page that include the words "Thomas" and "Ice." For example, if google registers the sentence "Thomas went to the ice machine," it would come up as a hit when googled as above. Please use quotes, as in

"Thomas Ice"

to count occurences of exact phrase. --Pierremenard 11:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. --Jason Gastrich 01:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Recruiting

It is frowned upon to recruit other users to AfD pages when your own intersts are at stake. You may want to be less obvious about it since it will go against you when the admin closes the Afd. Already it does not look good with complete strangers to wiki voting to keep. These types of voters are termed meatpuppets. You need to get a consensus of like minded wikipedians together whom might vote favourably from your own perspective. David D. (Talk) 22:35, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

If you're talking about me I have been here since April 2004. California12 18 January 2006

No not yourself. Heavens Helper, Gods Child and Michaelmoss have about 20 edits between them. Their votes will not be counted in the AfD. David D. (Talk) 23:07, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I want to thank you for your input, but because of some of the posts you've made, I doubt that your heart is in the right place. At any rate, my desire is to bring Christian Wikipedians here to contribute. I would never encourage someone only to vote and leave. By the way, there are a number of complete strangers to Wiki that have voted to delete. Will you be giving them an exhortation?

FYI - Heaven's Helper, Michael Moss, and God's Child are my friends. Although they may not have posted much so far, you can rest assured that they will be contributing more and more to Misplaced Pages. --Jason Gastrich 01:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

You really think my heart is not in the right place? Did i not welcome Michael and direct him to Christian music pages that might interest him? As far as other recent editors voting in the Afd you can be sure their deletes will also be excluded. i did not check thos though. Why don't ou write a note on the appropriate ones to help the closing admin sort the good votes from the bad votes. I am not encouraging your friends to leave i am merely pointing out the reality that their input in Afd will ot be taken seriously until they have shown a constructive input into the project. We disagree on most issues but I am certainly not out to get you or your friends. David D. (Talk) 02:26, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

WP:AGF. And Daycd is right, skewing AFD votes with buddies is by definition an act of bad faith. This bears more watching. FeloniousMonk 02:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. Of course ignoring "Judge not, lest ye be judged" would seem to me to be a violation of good faith on a number ofg levels. WWJD? Jim62sch 02:42, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

On Misplaced Pages we are our brother's keepers. We all depend on the process of Misplaced Pages:consensus to arrive at decisions about content. That is why we can't allow activities which skew the consensus. These include sock puppets, meat puppets, and participants who have been recruited to Misplaced Pages only to support a particular position. Asking active, potentially-interested editors to look at an article or AfD is acceptable, though even there restraint is expected. Frequent or widespread requests might be viewed as spam or worse. Let's all just try to be agreeable. This isn't the Usenet-- we have a project to work on. Cheers, -Will Beback 03:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Consensus is meant to represent the community's views, not the best organized, coordinated subset of it. FeloniousMonk 03:44, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I've followed the rules in avoiding "sock puppets, meat puppets, and participants who have been recruited to Misplaced Pages only to support a particular position." As you can see here, my desire is to get people to come here, stay, and be regular contributors to Misplaced Pages. I've also encouraged existing users to vote and to participate. As far as I can tell, these things are not against Wiki's rules. In fact, they all seem to be encouraged in the spirit of making a successful and prosperous Wiki. But by all means, watch away. --Jason Gastrich 04:39, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Followed the rules eh? And what about this? You blatantly tried to astroturf (aka "meatpuppet") the AfD for your vanity article. And publicly "thanked" the people who you asked to come here solely to vote to support you. Why shouldn't people suspect you of doing what you've done before? Mark K. Bilbo 14:27, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Given your extensive prior experience on AfD, you should know by now that inviting friends to register on Misplaced Pages and vote as soon as they arrive will never reflect well on you or them. Making selective quotations and ignoring the spirit in favour of the letter is apparently your day job, but it won't work here and you won't convince anyone that WP:SOCK means what you think it means and not what everyone else thinks it means.

Meatpuppetry not only disrupts our attempts to work by consensus, but it's unfair on your 'friends' because it casts all their subsequent contributions in a suspicious light. If you're really that concerned about getting people to contribute here, then think more about what they might do for Misplaced Pages and less about what they might do for you. --Malthusian (talk) 10:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Jason, I just saw all the above. You made your own bed here and if you really think my advice is so bad carry right on. But you will get into more problems if you just carry on without trying to fit in. David D. (Talk) 15:56, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Voting patterns

Your description actions as a "voting frenzy to delete, delete, delete" and "outburst of deletion votes" seems to imply that there is something amiss with my voting in AfDs. When someone's page lights up like yours did, when it appears that someone is trying to rig votes at AfD, its obvious that I would have a look at what all the excitement is about. They were obvious deletes, so I voted to delete. So what's your reason for your "voting frenzy to keep, keep, keep" such obviously non-notable articles? Guettarda 06:14, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Vote stacking

FeloniousMonk talked to you about vote-stacking. I'm going to echo that. You should also know that I consider that this is also open to question, and this would generally be interpreted as a personal attack. Given your clear lack of neutrality in these articles I strongly suggest that you take a step back. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 11:52, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Indeed. "With all due respect, he has likely written more books than you've read" is definitely a personal attack. You should read WP:NPA before proceeding. --Pierremenard 13:10, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

You two are barking up the wrong tree. I've simply encouraged people to vote; perfectly within Wiki guidelines. Furthermore, simply noting that a nominator nominated 10 Christian biography entries for deletion in the same day and saying I don't know if we can assume good faith certainly isn't an attack. Furthermore, my comments to WarriorScribe were a joke. Maybe you two should take a step back. --Jason Gastrich 18:36, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

WP:AGF is policy, accusing others of bad faith in nomination is a big deal and gets people's backs up. AfD is no big deal until someone comes along and makes it one, it's not a vote, the closing sysop's judgment has a lot to do with it. It's all about the project. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 20:09, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

If you read wrote I wrote carefully, you'll see that no accusations were made. I simply said that it's hard to assume good faith when someone nominated 10 Christian biographies for deletion in the same day. People can investigate and/or draw their own conclusions. --Jason Gastrich 20:25, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Your contributions at AFD

Hi there, and a belated welcome to Misplaced Pages. I noticed a number of your articles on AFD today, and I wanted to let you know why in many cases I have voted to delete them.

Firstly, about the articles. Many of your articles are unverifiable outside of sources you control or sources directly associated with the person named in the article. Misplaced Pages does not accept articles about unverifiable matters, people, etc. If your articles have reputable, third-party sources I would encourage you to cite them on the relevant page(s).

Secondly, your own votes. I am not sure if you are aware of Misplaced Pages's AFD process, but you voted to Speedy Keep on a number of discussions where that vote was not valid. Please see Misplaced Pages:Speedy keep, specifically that to speedy keep, there can be no other delete votes whatsoever.

Thirdly, I note that you posted similar requests on User_talk:Hall Monitor, User_talk:Hvnhlpr, User_talk:SWD316, User_talk:God's child, User_talk:Michaelwmoss, User_talk:Yuckfoo, and User_talk:Jaysuschris asking them to support your other articles which are on AFD. You should be aware that this could be seen as meatpuppetry or vote stacking, and the closing administrator will be asked to take this into account when assessing the result of the AFD. Your article should be kept or deleted on its own merits, not on the basis of who can round up the most users to support them.

I wish you all the best. Stifle 18:01, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Stifle. And nice to meet you. Thanks for clarifying the Speedy Keep. I suppose I used it incorrectly. Oops.

As for those talk pages, I said "Thanks for voicing your opinion on several of the Christian biographies that A.J.A. nominated for deletion, yesterday. Here are several others that could use your input." As you can see, I didn't ask them to "support" my articles. I just asked them to come and vote. --Jason Gastrich 18:41, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

As an addendum to this, if you are going to leave messages on Talk pages about AfD debates, doing that as web links rather than Wikilinks as you have been doing will prevent it showing up in "what links here" - which may well be interpreted as subterfuge. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 18:12, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

I didn't know this, but I'll take it into consideration. In the meantime, I suggest to you that you should tone down your overall hostility toward me. --Jason Gastrich 18:41, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Do not confuse hostility towards abuse of the project with personal hostility. - Just zis  Guy, you know? / AfD? 19:42, 19 January 2006 (UTC)