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Revision as of 05:01, 27 April 2010

This user is very lazy. Please feel free to do his work for him.

New user on the JP Talk Page

Since you were involved in the protection of the John Pershing article, please see my comments regarding the appearance of a "new" user with apparent knowledge of the article and Misplaced Pages policies and procedures. In my off-the-record view, this is quite obviously someone who has edited before creating this new account to bolster support. However, I can prove nothing and don't want to go against WP:AGF. We have just had that article become such a battlefield the last thing we need is a WP:SOCK or WP:MEAT issue. -OberRanks (talk) 20:04, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Hm, after reading their explanation probably best just to give them the benefit of the doubt, AGF, and see how it goes. –xeno 20:20, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

It might not be a bad idea to run an ip trace on this. You will notice on the user talk page who appeared right away to "welcome" the new user. I have to be very careful here in what I say because I do not want to go against good faith and accuse without evidence. I might be wrong and this might be exactly as explained - but, this is just a little bit too convenient, especially since this user's views are now being cited to place disputed material back in the article . To get right down to it, I think it is a sockpuppet account and I think you know who I think it is a sockpuppet of. Can you check it out? If I am wrong, deepest apologies. -OberRanks (talk) 17:56, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

You'll have to file at WP:SPI and present your evidence. It's fairly minor, but I do note they are signing right next to the full stop at the end of their comment ''(.~~~~)'', which isn't common. I will be fairly disappointed if the person you are hinting at turns to be the one running the account. I hope it isn't. –xeno 18:02, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Mmmm, the matter of the signing post is of extreme interest. However, I probably will let this one lie for now. I did a close examination of the various posts and there is some grammar and syntax difference between the two user's methods of writing so it might not be the same person. Obviously, if this new user reappears, supporting any and everything that the other one does then I sure there would be a good case. But for now, its not worth it since no disruption has been attempted. -OberRanks (talk) 20:04, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I came to your talk page to seek your advice on something else, and just saw that. And I'm pretty goddamn mad. (Not at you, of course.) In the first place, I have never done anything in secret here. What really pisses me off, is all of the bending over backwards I have done over the past few weeks, to be both civil and appropriate. And what infuriates me, is that OberRanks would come to your talk page and do this, rather than asking me directly. "I think it's a sockpuppet account, and you know who I think it is a sock puppet of"? Are you kidding me? You have my full permission, blessing, and even insistence to investigate this fully. And then I sure as hell hope there's going to be some form of punishment for his falsely accusing me of sockpuppetry.Mk5384 (talk) 14:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Back to why I was here in the first place...

On the John Pershing page, user Aunt Entropy posted a comment that I had made on the talk page of Genesis Creation myth. (Please take a look.) It was completely unrelated to the Pershing issues, and as such, deliberately misleading. I removed it, stated that I had removed it, gave my reasons, and notified the user who posted it. OberRanks (who else?) raised a fuss about this, and I wanted to make sure that I was within my rights to do this.Mk5384 (talk) 14:55, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, nothing in WP:TPG would preclude such a line of argument. If you feel it is irrelevant, you could rebut or ask the user to refactor. –xeno 15:57, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Damn right I appeared right away to welcome (without quotations) the new user. In the first place, that's what we're supposed to do. Secondly, the very first thing that OberRanks did was to attack this poor person. He violated AGF, NPA, and "don't bite the newcomers" all at once. "Mmmm, the matter of the signing post is of extreme interest"? Who in the hell does he think he is? Then he did "a close examination", and discovered "grammar and syntax differences"? Is he a goddamn detective? And he's decided to let this lie? Sorry, but I will not. Please tell me how to pursue this.Mk5384 (talk) 15:02, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I just should point out that noone has made any formal accusations here. Xeno and I were having a off-the-record discussion about this just because of how it looked. At face value, it looked very suspicious and that is why we were talking about it. But, at the end of the day, there is no evidence, no disruption, and no further activity from this account. This is exactly why this has gone nowhere except on this talk page. I am sorry it upset you. This was posted nowhere except here and no charges were ever made on any formal noticeboard. In short - Xeno and I were just talking about it. -OberRanks (talk) 15:07, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

If you wanted an off the record discussion, you should have used private e-mail. You accused me of sockpuppetry, and it was not "off the record". I could care less if there's been activity from the account. You can be damn sure that no one's going to accuse me of anything based on what another user does or dosen't do. And there will be formal charges made. And there is no "we" having this discussion. You came here, and engaged Xeno. When you say, "Xeno and I were having a conversation because of how it looked", that's horseshit. Please don't try to pretend that Xeno was concerned about this.Mk5384 (talk) 15:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

You should be aware that I do not use private e-mail on Misplaced Pages due a case under my old account User:Husnock where several users sent e-mails threatening my family. Since then, I confine all my business on Misplaced Pages and avoid any outside contact or use of my real-world e-mail; there's just too many crazy people out there. Again, sorry you're mad. If you would like to file charges, feel free to do so. I again stress that since this was two users talking on a user page, and this never made it to any kind of noticeboard or the mainspace of an article, there probably wont be much done about it. BTW, Xeno, apologies for continuing to post on your talk page about this. -OberRanks (talk) 15:29, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Private e-mail, or not, don't pretend it was off the record, and don't pretend that Xeno was at all concerned about it.Mk5384 (talk) 15:35, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

I noticed on the ANI thread that you said you will be busy. When you are free, please drop me a quick note, and let me know how best to handle this situation. As far as the sockpuppet thing, I'll report myself, if that's what I have to do to get this investigated.Mk5384 (talk) 16:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

And please take note that OberRanks is only "sorry that I'm mad". He is not sorry for his behaviour.Mk5384 (talk) 19:50, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

OberRanks was careful not to mention you by name, so really only you, me, OberRanks, and the lamppost would've known who s/he was talking about. There is always the chance on questioning about possible sockpuppetry to falsely accuse someone. I'm not really sure if this has ever been reconciled on Misplaced Pages: due to the wiki-model, most queries must be initiated on-wiki (i.e. at WP:SPI). Not being too familiar with SPI and checkuser processes, I'm not really sure what actions you would take over this grievance. –xeno 22:30, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Xeno, you know that I respect you, and I don't want to fill your time with trivial nonsense. Yes, OberRanks was careful not to mention me by name. He was also careful to make it very, very clear to whom he was referring. I have no idea who Kind Journalist is, or what his or her agenda is. I have posted what OberRanks said on Kind Journalist's talk page, and have gotten no response. All I do know, is that it isn't I, nor do I know this person. Again, I would like the sockpuppetry issue investigated.Mk5384 (talk) 08:15, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Please bear with me while I seek advice on this matter. –xeno 12:52, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

FYI, xeno, I've reported this user here for a vareity of reasons and mentioned this thread as part of the problem. -OberRanks (talk) 13:39, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the note. I've commented there. –xeno 13:41, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Of course, I'll bear with you. But in the meanwhile, OberRanks has resumed his daily trips to ANI to report me for some imaginary infraction, and it's really getting old. As long as he can somehow manage, at any cost, to keep the focus on me, he feels he won't have to answer for himself and his rulebreaking.Mk5384 (talk) 14:31, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I haven't heard back from the individual yet, but per Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/SPI/Checkuser criteria and letters (perm) - in particular "C" under "When it might be appropriate " (the vote is not closed) and the third row for "When it is usually not appropriate" basically indicate that checkuser would not be appropriate here. If you wish to initiate a grievance against OberRanks over this situation, WP:ANI would be the venue - however, I would suggest a "reboot" between you two; and either another attempt at mediation, or an {{RFCtag}} on the issue to gather more outside voices. –xeno 18:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, for the record, I totally knew OberRanks was referring to Mk5384, it's no secret. I guessed Mk5384 was his #1 suspect even before he implied it. I wasn't aware that I had to, and I'm doubtful that I really do, but I would sanction any investigation into the possible inseparability of my identity from Mk5384's, or any other user's. I would strongly encourage it, actually, since that seems to be what Mk5384 wants. I personally like the theatre and confusion of it all, but I would be (and have been) offended if someone else was mistaken for me, and I certainly wouldn't want someone else speaking for me, so to whatever ancient forces may be listening; investigate away.Kind Journalist (talk) 18:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for that, Kind Journalist. I realise that you find it humorous, and I too, would probably see the humor in it were it not for the seriousness of the situation.Mk5384 (talk) 22:43, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Xeno, please tell me what can be done about OberRanks and his SP nonsense. He has now began to bully yet another new user. Kind Journalist and I have both agreed to a full investigation. I can't speak for the latest user, but something has to be done. Talk about "don't bite the newcomers". The first thing that these poor people have to do here is defend themselves against accusations of sockpuppetry. Now, at ANI, Baseball Bugs has jumped on OR's SP wagon. Please get this investigation underway. OberRanks has now changed his accusations to meatpuppetry. Per Misplaced Pages's very definition, he has accused me of recruiting users to post on the Pershing talk page to support my position. Like the SP charge, this is 100 % false. I do not know either of these users in the most remote way. PLEASE investigate this. Even if OR and BB won't wind up being punished, they at least need to be made to stop their attacks.Mk5384 (talk) 04:28, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Question

Wasn't really on topic for the RFA, but I'm interested in your reasoning on this. For me, blindly reverting because "the crat did it, it must be right" is the exact sort of judging edits beacause of who made them, and not impartially examining the issue, that causes problems around here. IMHO If anything the context makes it more troubling, not less? Your thoughts?--Cube lurker (talk) 18:18, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

I wasn't necessarily trying to dissuade anyone from opposing over it, but merely suggesting they review the background before doing so. Your question is an interesting one, I'll have to think about it. –xeno 18:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Fair enough.--Cube lurker (talk) 18:29, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

bot's turn, soon...

• WT:ACTOR#search and replace patterns

I floated an objections-check there three days ago, and there are none. I also note this comment by WHL, which is accepting of the notion. I believe this is fine to proceed with. Let me know if you'd like me to dig up more examples or if I can otherwise help. Cheers, Jack Merridew 22:59, 26 April 2010 (UTC)