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::@Snowded, you are right that it has indeed little relevance to this lemma. But, it seems to be a topic, or should I say a mantra, popular among ... to bash the catholic church. Anyway, even the claim itself seems to be wrong as recent research by historian ], supported by the ], in archives of years 1930-33 has shown that already 3 years before Hitler came to power nazi party members were indeed ], „any Catholic who joined the Nazi party, wore the uniform or flew the swastika flag would no longer be able to receive the sacraments.“. In addition, already a 1931 booklet by Capuchin Ingbert Naab clearly stated that Hitler and nazi ideology was anti-christian. --] (]) 18:25, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
::@Snowded, you are right that it has indeed little relevance to this lemma. But, it seems to be a topic, or should I say a mantra, popular among ... to bash the catholic church. Anyway, even the claim itself seems to be wrong as recent research by historian ], supported by the ], in archives of years 1930-33 has shown that already 3 years before Hitler came to power nazi party members were indeed ], „any Catholic who joined the Nazi party, wore the uniform or flew the swastika flag would no longer be able to receive the sacraments.“. In addition, already a 1931 booklet by Capuchin Ingbert Naab clearly stated that Hitler and nazi ideology was anti-christian. --] (]) 18:25, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, it is indeed relevant, as I pointed out. But if you think it's "bashing Catholicism", then just leave it out. I consider that a very strange oppinion, however. And please know that I'm a believer in the Catholic Church myself.] (]) 05:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
:::Well, it is indeed relevant, as I pointed out. But if you think it's "bashing Catholicism", then just leave it out. I consider that a very strange oppinion, however. And please know that I'm a believer in the Catholic Church myself.] (]) 05:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Although the Hitler angle is immaterial, Anti-Catholicism also includes a component which believes that the Catholic Church stood idly during the Holocaust, and that some high ranking clerics assisted Nazis out of Europe after the war. I am not claiming these allegations to be true, just that they are the basis of some Anit-Catholic sentiment.] (]) 15:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
::::Although the Hitler angle is immaterial, Anti-Catholicism also includes a component which believes that the Catholic Church stood idly during the Holocaust, and that some high ranking clerics assisted Nazis out of Europe after the war. I am not claiming these allegations to be true, just that they are the basis of some Anti-Catholic sentiment.] (]) 15:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
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I think the fact that Hitler was himself a Catholic does indeed matter, because (1st) most people, as we have seen, do not believe it even when they're told, and (2nd) because it is a very rare phenomenon in history that the Church was so hatefully suppressed by people who were her own members (the same is true for Goebbels).
I promised to give a source for the fact that Hitler was a Catholic, and not „erstwhile“ but until his death. The German original text from Albert Speer's biography: Speer, Albert: Erinnerungen, Verlag Ullstein, Frankfurt a.M./Berlin, 1969, page 109 goes as follows.
Als Hitler etwa 1937 davon hörte, daß auf Betreiben der Partei und der SS zahllose seiner Anhänger aus der Kirche ausgetreten seien, weil sich diese halsstarrig Hitlers Absichten widersetzte, befahl er aus Gründen der Opportunität, daß seine wichtigsten Mitarbeiter, vor allem aber Göring und Goebbels, weiter der Kirche anzugehören hätten. Auch er würde Mitglied der katholischen Kirche bleiben, obwohl er keine innere Bindung zu ihr habe. Er blieb es bis zu seinem Selbstmord.
If you search the quote in the English translation, you may find it towards the end of the 7th chapter. I do not have the translation, so I made my own.
When Hitler heard in about 1937 that, with the Party’s and the SS’s support, countless of his followers had secedered from the Church, because the latter was headstrongly resisting to his intentions, he commanded for reasons of opportunity that his most important co-operators, and most notably Göring and Goebbels, cease not to belong to the Church. He would himself stay a member of the Catholic Church as well, even though he said he had no inner connection with her. he stayed it until his suicide.Rudefuss (talk) 13:30, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
What is the relevance to anti-catholicism? If as you say most people do not believe it then its not creating the phenomena. It may be relevant on other articles but not here --Snowded14:20, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
transl. "Is Hitler a Christian?"
@Snowded, you are right that it has indeed little relevance to this lemma. But, it seems to be a topic, or should I say a mantra, popular among ... to bash the catholic church. Anyway, even the claim itself seems to be wrong as recent research by historian Michael Hesemann, supported by the Pave the Way Foundation, in archives of years 1930-33 has shown that already 3 years before Hitler came to power nazi party members were indeed excommunicated, „any Catholic who joined the Nazi party, wore the uniform or flew the swastika flag would no longer be able to receive the sacraments.“. In addition, already a 1931 booklet by Capuchin Ingbert Naab clearly stated that Hitler and nazi ideology was anti-christian. --Túrelio (talk) 18:25, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
Well, it is indeed relevant, as I pointed out. But if you think it's "bashing Catholicism", then just leave it out. I consider that a very strange oppinion, however. And please know that I'm a believer in the Catholic Church myself.Rudefuss (talk) 05:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
Although the Hitler angle is immaterial, Anti-Catholicism also includes a component which believes that the Catholic Church stood idly during the Holocaust, and that some high ranking clerics assisted Nazis out of Europe after the war. I am not claiming these allegations to be true, just that they are the basis of some Anti-Catholic sentiment.155.84.57.253 (talk) 15:24, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
