Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 00:07, 28 April 2010

Climate Audit

• Articles for deletion/Climate Audit
• Articles for deletion/Climate Audit (2nd nomination)

Climate Audit (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

We need to take this through an afd, since some people insist the content should be deleted. I don't see any agreement on that. Nsaa (talk) 19:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

NB: After the AFD-request the page has been altered again. The AFD is about this version, not the current one as of 2010-04-10T22:30. Nsaa (talk) 22:30, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

NB: Well, the above is a trifle disingenuous. In fact the article was restored to the version that has been stable for a year now William M. Connolley (talk) 23:06, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

You are disruptive with your removal of the content over and over again. Are you afraid that people may find more and better sources for the article? It's bad and again . (hint you see the small print above: Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL?) Nsaa (talk) 22:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Inconveniently for the experts, global warming IS a con The Sun "In order to keep the reality hidden from sceptics, especially Climate Audit, he allegedly asked for emails to be deleted, data altered and on one occasion convinced the university not to release information to Climate Audit because of "the types of people" they were."
• Professor Phil Jones’s leaked e-mails reveal climate of secrecy and distrust The Times "Many requests for data came from climate sceptics connected with the Climate Audit (CA) blog, which questions the IPCC’s conclusions. Climate Audit is edited by Steve McIntyre, a former mineral industry executive. In one e-mail sent in 2008, Professor Jones tells a colleague how he managed to persuade the university to refuse information requests from Climate Audit. “When the FoI requests began here, the FoI person said we had to abide by the requests. It took a couple of half-hour sessions — one at a screen, to convince them otherwise showing them what CA was all about. Once they became aware of the types of people we were dealing with, everyone at UEA (in the registry and in the Environmental Sciences school — the head of school and a few others) became very supportive.” In possibly the most damning e-mail, Professor Jones asks a colleague at another university to delete e-mails discussing contributions to the IPCC’s fourth Assessment Report. “Mike, Can you delete any e-mails you may have had with Keith re AR4?” "

Just checking the two first sources given by the search (ok, The Sun is a tabloid, but people read it, and they need more info about the Climate Audit blog like presented in the next article from the highly regarded The Times. Nsaa (talk) 22:18, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Keep, no deletion, no redirect. This is a well sourced article and adheres to Misplaced Pages:WEB and WP:GNG. Nsaa (talk) 19:41, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

• Keep no deletion, no redirect. Both are notable enough for their own articles mark nutley (talk) 19:45, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
• redirect as is now William M. Connolley (talk) 20:10, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
• redirect, weakly favor: I generally prefer to lump rather than split. Pete Tillman (talk) 21:03, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
• redirect as before. Climate Audit gains its notability because Stephen McIntyre writes it, and McI is notable because of his involvement in the Hockey stick controversy... it has no notability by itself. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 21:17, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

• Comment - Article's "full state" that is being deliberated can be found here, as opposed to the current redirect. --Darkwind (talk) 21:25, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Websites-related deletion discussions. -- --Darkwind (talk) 21:26, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
• Redirect. It seems apparent that Climate Audit has no notability independent of its sole proprietor. It might be different if it was a group blog, but it's not. Compare the much more widely read The Daily Dish, which redirects to its author, Andrew Sullivan. -- ChrisO (talk) 23:39, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
• Comment - since the article was merged into Stephen McIntyre a year ago, we can't delete this article alone without deleting both articles. So either the parent article needs to be added here, or this needs to be closed on procedural grounds. This appears to be a "Request for de-merging" (see here) and not a real deletion nom, and is, IMO, outside the scope of AFD. Guettarda (talk) 23:41, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

  I think you have a point. I thought there was something not quite right about this AfD - I couldn't put my finger on it, but I was considering suggesting that it should go to Misplaced Pages:Redirects for discussion instead. -- ChrisO (talk) 00:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• Keep as redirect and slap nominator with a trout. Hipocrite (talk) 01:09, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
• Keep as redirect. Climate Audit is an extremely WikiNotable blog and Misplaced Pages definitely should cover it. But the best place to cover it is in our Stephen McIntyre article, IMO: it is better, both for our readers and for editors, to have one not-particularly-long article than two shortish articles. CWC 03:13, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
• Keep The topic is notable, being covered in detail by good sources such as Assessing climate change. Colonel Warden (talk) 07:29, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
• Don't give a flying fuck The article wasn't "deleted by redirect" as Nsaa claims on the CA talk page, it was merged. The redirect cannot be simply deleted since content was actually merged from the Climate Audit article to the Stephen McIntyre article and it wasn't simply redirected. To delete the redirect, the McIntrye article would also have to be deleted. This AfD is Nsaa disrupting Misplaced Pages by proving a point, and this nomination should be speedy closed. Also, many thanks to the nominator who clearly doesn't understand why AfD is for, and for wasting everyone's time with pointless bureaucracy. You should also brush up on your English and learn the difference between a redirect and a merge. -Atmoz (talk) 17:04, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

  Nice one. Going after the person when you are short of arguments ("You should also brush up on your English and learn the difference between a redirect and a merge"). For the first. You may be aware that I nominated the article for deletion (and it's disputed content), not the prior redirect. It was no merge discussion at the talk page, It was just done without any discussion (this is the only mentioning of it after it happend Talk:Climate_Audit#Redirecting). I didn't in fact see it before now (yes I have not followed every article in this area, and I think that's the case for most people with day work, contributing here. Nsaa (talk) 21:57, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

  The fact that your English sucks and you think you can contribute to the English Misplaced Pages is your problem, not mine. You don't see me trying to contribute to the Greek Misplaced Pages. As mentioned on the talk page, there is no requirement needed before a merge takes place. If you don't understand that, please read up on the English Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. As I mentioned, the article cannot be deleted unless the Stephen McIntyre article is also deleted. The content was NOT DELETED. It was simply moved to a different article. IT WAS NOT DELETED. This AfD serves no purpose, because the article cannot be deleted. Also, your edit summary of "AGF" is pointless. I'm not assuming anything. Simply mentioning that your English needs work. Also, if you actually read my comment you'd notice that my comment was not Ad hom. It is that the nominator doesn't understand the English Misplaced Pages's policy on deletion and how that differs from merging. An Ad hom would be, "Nsaa is stupid, therefore delete." My argument is, "Nsaa doesn't understand the difference between merging and deleting, therefore this AfD should be closed." If you want to de-merge it, use the talk page. -Atmoz (talk) 22:10, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

  Ok, then. Iff you find bad and not proper English from my contributions here you are welcome to point it out (in a friendly tone so I can learn from it). Again this is an attack on my ability to read, understand and write English. Yes it's not native, but I've never run into trouble before because of this. Just done some 25.000 edits to en-wp in my five years here. Yes, and I do understand the difference between a merge and a deletion. As far as I see most of the content is removed (deleted), with some of it merged into the bio. Nsaa (talk) 22:27, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

  What information in the Climate Audit page (diff provided above) was not added to the McIntyre page (diff provided above)? If you can't tell that the entire page was merged, then your English isn't good enough. -Atmoz (talk) 00:07, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

• Keep as article. I was planing on creating this article sooner or later. I found enough information in Infotrac and in a couple of books I have that definitely confirm it's notability. This blog is currently used as a reference in at least one article. Above, KimDabelsteinPetersen recommends a redirect or deletion for this article. I find this odd since the same editor advocates using it as a source. Cla68 (talk) 22:46, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

What's that straw man good for? We don't need articles on any source - there is none on Journal of Automated Reasoning, for example. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

There should be. By the way, Climate Audit's Alexa ranking (54,309) is much higher than RealClimate's (73,509) and DeSmogBlog (75,807), both of which have their own articles. I started the DeSmogBlog article, in fact. Cla68 (talk) 23:25, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes? Is that an argument to AfD or merge RC or DeSmogBlog? Btw. as you well know Alexa (by Alexa's own recogning) is not reliable for information when the sites have this ranking - so why are you presenting it here? --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 23:36, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

• AfD debates (Web or Internet)
• AfD debates