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This board is for users to request enforcement under the terms of the climate change article probation. Requests should take the following format:

{{subst:Climate Sanction enforcement request
| User against whom enforcement is requested          
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| Sanction or remedy that this user violated 
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  <!-- When providing several diffs, please use a numbered list as in this example. -->
=<p>
#  <Explanation>
#  <Explanation>
#  <Explanation>
# ...
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=<p>
#  Warning by {{user|<Username>}}
#  Warning by {{admin|<Username>}}
# ...
| Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) 
  = <Your text>
| Additional comments 
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}}

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Suspected Scibaby sockpuppets

Following discussion at Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation/Requests for enforcement#Scibaby and enablers, this section is established to list active suspected Scibaby sockpuppets. This list is merely a courtesy to other editors active in this topic area, and does not replace Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Scibaby. Please remove accounts that have been blocked or were listed in error. Accounts listed here are probably sockpuppets of a banned user, and may be reverted on sight. Any editor in good standing may "adopt" an edit that in his or her considered opinion improves an article, subject to common editing norms. The utmost care should be exercised to avoid listing accounts in error, and any mistakes should be promptly recognized and rectified.

ChrisO

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning ChrisO

User requesting enforcement

Cla68 (talk) 02:12, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

ChrisO (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation, videlicet, disruptive editing, personal attacks, and POV advocacy in climate change articles, but especially in the Bishop Hill (blog) article

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. votes in AfD to "Delete" Bishop Hill
2. removes reliably sourced text from Bishop Hill while AfD ongoing
3. Does so again while AfD still ongoing
4. revert wars on same material from Bishop Hill article
5. again removes the material while AfD still ongoing
6. removes reliably sourced material from Bishop Hill
7. revert wars at Bishop Hill
8. blanks entire section from another article (DeSmogBlog) which had recently passed Good Article revew by an independent, uninvolved editor after that article was used to counter his argument on sources in the Bishop Hill article
9. redirects Bishop Hill article against consensus from AfD
10. is blocked for the redirect
11. removes link to Bishop Hill from a related article
12. personalizes dispute and misrepresents source (newspaper blogs, as pointed out here are reliable sources)
13. grossly exaggerates result of AfD discussion (more accurate observation)
14. personal attack
15. extended personal attack
16. calls editor an "incompetent researcher"
17. attacks edits by new editor
18. personal attack- unsubstantiated accusation of off-wiki collusion
19. personal attack (note edit summary)
20. personal attack
21. personalizes dispute
22. pushes POV opinion
23. personal attack (in context with previous comments)
24. unhelpful attitude

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

Please correct the behavior. Cla68 (talk) 02:12, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Not at this time. Note, however, that I was blocked for 24-hours for this edit which, in part, reversed ChrisO's redirect of the article Cla68 (talk) 02:12, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

(and response)

Discussion concerning ChrisO

Statement by ChrisO

This is an extremely selective and misleading presentation, which is simply nonsensical in some regards. It's a grab-bag of misrepresentations, out-of-context quotes and vague insinuations of wrongdoing. Given the deceptive and partial nature of Cla68's claims, I honestly can't interpret this as anything other than retaliation by an editor who recently got blocked. Let's go through these diffs:

1) Voting to delete is not a violation of any sanction or remedy. No explanation of how this is a violation - it's absurd to claim this as some sort of violation.

2-7) Editing an article that is before AfD is not a violation of any sanction or remedy. AfD is meant to encourage a focus on resolving problems with articles, if they can be resolved. An ongoing AfD does not preclude editors from working on articles, and that necessarily includes removing poorly sourced material and material of questionable relevance. Articles are often greatly improved as a result of this process - either by being expanded or by being cleaned up.

8) I removed content in DeSmogBlog that I felt was trivial and crufty. This problem was pointed out by two other editors before I edited it, so it was certainly not in response to a counter-argument. See Talk:Bishop Hill (blog)#Blanking of cited content from "Please read DeSmogBlog" onwards.

9-10) I redirected the Bishop Hill (blog) article after it had been reduced by another editor to a single sentence which contained no more content than was already in the destination article. I made this clear in my edit summary. Cla68 reverted me , was blocked and then falsely claimed that he was reverting vandalism.

11) Removing a single link from an unrelated article is not a violation of any sanction or remedy. No explanation of how this is a violation.

12) False claim by Cla68 - I was in no way "misrepresenting" a source as non-reliable. I was pointing out to Marknutley that the source was not "in a national newspaper" as he had claimed but was a blog hosted by a national newspaper's website. The nature of a source is an entirely different question to whether the source is reliable or not.

14) Not a personal attack - I was pointing out that editors who are regular contributors to blogs that are the topic of articles may not be best placed to assess its importance objectively.

15-16) Misrepresentation of context by Cla68. He unaccountably fails to mention that Marknutley is currently blocked for an extended period after being caught plagiarising copyrighted material in multiple articles - this is being discussed at the moment at User talk:Marknutley#Block. Cla68 is certainly aware of this, since he's posted in that discussion. Marknutley is also the subject of a copyright investigation at Misplaced Pages:Contributor copyright investigations/20100506. My comments about Marknutley's editing being problematic were posted shortly before he was blocked for exactly the kind of problematic behaviour I was identifying, and is the basis of a draft RfC/U that I'm writing up. Criticism of an editor's conduct and contributions is entirely on-topic for the purposes of an RfC/U.

17) Criticism of material that had been added. Comments focused on content not the contributor; not a violation of any sanction or remedy, and no explanation of how this is a violation.

19) Criticism of material that had been added. Comments focused on content not the contributor; not a violation of any sanction or remedy, and no explanation of how this is a violation.

20) Misrepresentation of context by Cla68. Another editor had posted: "Its just a harmless little stub about a silly blog, its not going to change anything at all in the real world at all, one of the things I find is a good thing to remember is that what is written on this wikipedia is more or less irrelevant, no one puts any store on it, why not just take it off your watchlist if you don't like it?" I replied: "So why are you here, if you think it's so unimportant?" This is, at worst, no more than a sarcastic response - clearly not a personal attack.

21) Misrepresentation of context by Cla68. I asked SlimVirgin why she was apparently unaware of the previous discussions or the consensus-building work which was going on, which has been completely disrupted. She subsequently acknowledged that she was not aware of the contentiousness of the material that she had added/restored.

22) Misrepresentation of context by Cla68. I offered my assessment of the disputed content. That's what a talk page is for. Not a violation of any sanction or remedy and no explanation of how this is a violation.

23) Misrepresentation of context by Cla68. Not a personal attack. Numerous editors on the talk page (Guettarda, Yilloslime, William M. Connolley, Kim D. Petersen, dave souza, ScottyBerg) have repeatedly criticised Marknutley's approach of filling out the article with trivial passing mentions of the subject, some of which had been unreliably sourced, rather than reliably sourced substantive coverage. I was thinking of Marknutley in that comment, but carefully avoiding mentioning him by name, precisely to avoid it being interpreted as a personal attack on a specific editor.

24) Offering an assessment of the poor quality of an article is, needless to say, not a violation of any sanction or remedy. Saying that I think an article is too poor to reach GA status is not so much an "unhelpful response" as, apparently, an unwanted one. -- ChrisO (talk) 03:12, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning ChrisO

Comment by Ratel

Let me get this straight: ChrisO is being carpeted here basically for opposing the existence of an article about a blog written by a British accountant about his untrained and inexpert scepticism of global warming. I can see nothing wrong with what he's done, even given Cla68's long list of arguable transgressions. This is just wikilawyering, IMO. No doubt this statement will now be used against me as an example of a heinous "personal attack". ► RATEL ◄ 02:23, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Ratel, this one of the few forums where the rules on personalizing disputes are relaxed to some degree. Cla68 (talk) 02:34, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

ChrisO deserves a medal for services to Misplaced Pages. If this article is allowed to exist, why can't I start a blog about global warming, get a few mentions in the blogosphere and local press, then start a wikipedia article about it? Hey, maybe I'll do just that! ► RATEL ◄ 06:53, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

How about helping expand these articles and thereby improve the 'pedia? You made significant contributions to DeSmogBlog which enabled it to get to Good Article level, which I really appreciate. So, why not help out the same way on these other blog articles, such as RealClimate, Watts Up With That, Climate Audit (coming soon), and Bishop Hill? Remember, we, as encyclopedia editors, don't make value judgements on the subjects we cover, we just report what the sources are saying. Cla68 (talk) 07:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Stephan Schulz

Cla68 is clearly off the rail. Having an opinion on the quality of a fringy editorial on a talk page is now POV-pushing? This is a personal attack? Only if you twist WP:AGF until it says the opposite. Between this spurious request and Cla's "oh, someone posted in what I think is the wrong section, let's go to ArbCom!", I'd think he needs to find some perspective. I'd suggest to offer him the option to withdraw this harassment quietly or be banned from CC probation enforcement for 4 weeks. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 07:11, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment by William M. Connolley

This request is mad. It starts off:

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 1. votes in AfD to "Delete" Bishop Hill - yes, that's right. Cla really is asserting that a vote for deleting this NN blog is a violation of the probation. Cla is clearly pissed off that he got blocked for edit warring and wants to get someone beaten up in revenge, which is very bad faith William M. Connolley (talk) 07:33, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

@ATren: And yes, I said it -- group! Cadre, cabal, group, whatever you want to call it, it's there - only in the imagination of the paranoid. You're descending down to Abd levels now. Climb back up before it is too late William M. Connolley (talk) 10:08, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

There's more fun Cla stuff at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Possible BLP violation William M. Connolley (talk) 09:21, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Short Brigade Harvester Boris

I am concerned that this is the second time Cla68 has recently tried the "shovel in a massive number of diffs and maybe some of them will be relevant" approach as he also did this in his statement on Lar's RfC. Granted that's not in the enforcement area, but it shows unexpected behavior from a prolific and highly regarded editor. It would be most unfortunate if Cla68 should continue along this path as he is one of our premier content contributors and one of Misplaced Pages's real assets. For his own sake as well as the project's I would like to encourage him to step back and gain some perspective. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 09:27, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment by ATren

Clearly, Cla68 presented that first diff (the vote to delete an article) as context for the following actions, all of occurred in relation to that article. So, ChrisO voted to delete; and then soon after the AFD was closed as keep, he blanked it to a redirect (for which he was blocked); and then when a completely unrelated editor came to the article, ChrisO made outlandish accusations of collusion. The list of edits are intended to present a sequence of behavior all relating to that one article.

Of course, the commentors above would rather ignore everything else and focus on that first diff in isolation, spinning this as a spurious report in which Cla is reporting ChrisO for simply voting delete. That's really ironic because in the Lar RFC Cla68 presented a long list of isolated offending diffs (most of which stood as abusive on their own) and was accused of pulling diffs out of context. So if he ignores context he's criticized, and if he provides it they accuse him of reporting a "delete" as a violation. There's no pleasing this group.

And yes, I said it -- group! Cadre, cabal, group, whatever you want to call it, it's there. If SlimVirgin can be accused of off-wiki collusion with a group which includes Lar and Cla68, then any accusation of group behavior is on the table. Jeez, not only do SV, Cla, Lar, Marknutley, me, etc, share virtually no shared editing history before getting involved in this conflict 6 months ago, but there is actually a long history of arbcom-level conflict between several of these purported colluders!

Furthermore, they want to talk about Cla filing a "revenge" request -- how about these allegations of collusion as a "revenge" tactic against those of us who have criticized the long-time CC editors? They've acting in tandem over a long period of time to squelch opposing views and intimidate newbies, and we've skirted around that issue because it's taboo to accuse long time contributors of such actions. But now that ChrisO has brought it to the surface with these revenge accusations, brazenly accusing long-time editors of collusion, I think it's time to openly talk about the real cabal here (hint: see the list of commentors above) ATren (talk) 09:55, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Wrong venue. And wrong insinuations, but that's a different topic.--Stephan Schulz (talk) 10:00, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Thepm

I had previously commented on this post at the talk page here. I was disappointed insofar as ChrisO's responses appeared to focus on MN's behaviour (which was not the subject there or here). The consensus of several other posters was probably best summed up by WMC, who said that I was "pushing this too hard," although he noted that "we're all agreed that the place for an RFC isn't an article talk page, so yes you have a point."

I let it go there, but the problem I have with ChrisO's post was not that it was in the wrong place, but that it was completely inappropriate. Referring to an editor's "pig-headed obstinacy" is just not civil. Calling for other editors to provide "diffs of particularly egregious conduct" is bullying. Whether or not ChrisO was entitled to complain about MN is not the point. It was the way he went about it.

I think that ChrisO is a valuable contributor to wikipedia generally and to the climate related articles particularly, but the battleground mentality has got to stop. Thepm (talk) 10:16, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. We will disagree, but we need to disagree without being disagreeable. Everyone involved here needs to do a better job of holding their temper and staying on point. (And yes, I include myself in "everyone".) Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 18:09, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Questions

• Cla, please do explain your reasoning that this is a personal attack. Thanks - KillerChihuahuaAdvice 14:42, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• If I may interject, "looks bad, smells bad" - this was just after his accusation of collusion, and "smells bad" further implies suspicion. That's how I would interpret "smells bad", but if there is a more reasonable explanation I'd be open to hearing it. ATren (talk) 15:00, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• You are reading far too much into a comment that's purely about content. -- ChrisO (talk) 15:02, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• And what about the earlier comment, where you explicitly mentioned off-wiki collaboration? ATren (talk) 16:03, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

You know what is a personal attack? calling good-faith edits, however mistaken they were or were not, vandalism. That's a personal attack. Hipocrite (talk) 15:10, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

To be fair to Cla, he was squirming to get a block lifted and desperately searching for some reason why his edit warring was Good Edit Warring William M. Connolley (talk) 15:26, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

From Heyitspeter

@Lar & 2/0: ChrisO was blocked for a spate of edit warring precisely one edit, not for the WP:AGF and WP:NPA violations mentioned here. I do not see how that block suffices to address the concerns raised.

@2/0: You are suggesting that we deal with this issue by copying some of the text from the Climate change probation page and pasting it here, once again, as you put it. That obviously isn't an effective way to deal with disruptive editing.--Heyitspeter (talk) 19:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

You're wrong. ChrisO, and Cla, were both blocked for precisely one edit (well, ChrisO definitely for one, Cla maybe for two), which LHVU interpreted as edit warring. Your "a spate of edit warring" is twaddle incorrect, as you've subsequently admitted William M. Connolley (talk) 21:16, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, assuming you're right. That makes my point all the more forceful; I hadn't realized how little of the present request had been dealt with by that block.

I've refactored my comment appropriately. In return I request that you refactor yours to exclude the final sentence per WP:CIVIL.--Heyitspeter (talk) 21:57, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

So, now the "spate of edit warring" has proved a mirage. Closer inspection shows that the "concerns raised", whilst not quite totally vapid, simply aren't enough to merit raising at this page. The block doesn't address those concerns because they don't need to be addressed William M. Connolley (talk) 22:07, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

More comments

What everyone needs to remember is that in a contentious topic area, collaboration, cooperation, and compromise are necessary in order to make progress on building complete, balanced, neutral articles. Were ChrisO's edits helpful in achieving this? I think clearly they were not. It appears that an admin has decided to point this out to ChrisO. If this corrects the behavior, and I sincerely hope it does, then we can move forward and hopefully continue making some progress on building up and expanding Bishop Hill (blog) and related articles. I have invited several of the editors who have commented here to expand and improve the Watts Up With That article as was done with DeSmogBlog. I would like to invite them to do the same with Bishop Hill (blog). I look forward to helping them out with both articles. I appreciate the well-thought and reasoned comments by the admins below. Cla68 (talk) 22:49, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Expand Bishop Hill (blog) with what? It is already a coatrack. Each of the few peripheral mentions of the blog in the very few sources is used to coatrack Montford's views into the article. Your backing of this article appears to be classic POV pushing and now you are advocating expanding it here? Polargeo (talk) 00:09, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Maybe editors should be more polite with you but you should not wikilawyer to get your way whilst ignoring policy designed to improve the quality of articles. Polargeo (talk) 00:12, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Polargeo, if you don't feel that the sources support Bishop Hill, will you instead commit to helping me improve RealClimate, Climate Audit, and Watts Up With That with the goal of getting all three to Good Article? Cla68 (talk) 03:59, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

A great example for you to follow Cla. I don't see the article on the blog RealClimate being used to push its content and POV. Also there is no obvious place to merge RC. Polargeo (talk) 05:31, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh and Climate Audit is a redirect to Stephen McIntyre#ClimateAudit.org. Just as this Bishop Hill (blog) should be a clear merge to Andrew Montford. Something I believe you have been blocked for trying to prevent. Polargeo (talk) 05:38, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

As for Watts Up With That, feel free to improve it because it has some of the same issues Bishop hill has but it has much more significant RS coverage than Bishop Hill. Polargeo (talk) 05:46, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

If your work on these articles and fighting for them by every method (including using enforcement to attempt to win content debates) is designed to "level the playing field" I feel you are very misguided. Polargeo (talk) 05:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

All I asked Polargeo, is if you would be willing and able to help improve and expand those three articles with the goal of getting them to Good Article. Do your four responses above constitute a "yes" or a "no?" Cla68 (talk) 09:52, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Further discussion on talkpage Polargeo (talk) 10:57, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Result concerning ChrisO

• I shall be recusing from this area, since I have been involved in endeavouring to directly admin the article, have previously indef protected (and lifted) the article, and have blocked ChrisO and Cla68 for unilaterally redirecting and reverting the redirect upon protection being lifted. Since some aspect of the above may involve my actions and decisions I feel I cannot comment as an uninvolved sysop. I shall, of course, respond to direct questions. LessHeard vanU (talk) 13:01, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Had I been monitoring Bishop Hill (blog), I would have acted pretty much as LHvU has done. I see nothing else that needs to be resolved here, other than urging once again that everyone editing in this topic area up their game. There should be no insurmountable barrier to collaborating civilly and productively. When someone introduces a questionable source, introduce a better one; when someone comments more on the contributor than the content, focus on the content; when someone reverts you, explain your edit at the talkpage and engage in discussion; when you revert someone's edit, explain why and actively seek a source-based compromise. - 2/0 (cont.) 15:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• I'm inclined to agree with 2/0. I would also like to note that while LHvU has my support for recusing, if he feels he should, I personally feel that what he has done has been within admin, not editing, purview and no recusal is indicated. KillerChihuahuaAdvice 15:30, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

• Those accusing Cla68 of having brought this here unnecessarily are off base. It's a valid thing to raise. If this had been brought here prior to the blocks imposed, I'd probably think a sanction for ChrisO was appropriate. But it's after the fact, the block was served out, done. An admonishment to "up your game" for ChrisO (and whoever else deemed necessary) is all I'd advocate, this time. Agree with KC that LHvU doesn't need to recuse, but bonus points for deciding to. ++Lar: t/c 16:29, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

LessHeard vanU

Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.

Request concerning LessHeard vanU

User requesting enforcement

William M. Connolley (talk) 21:31, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

LessHeard vanU (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy that this user violated

Basic tenets of noninvolvement of Misplaced Pages:General sanctions/Climate change probation

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. , . These two, taken together, show LHVU reverting the page to his, and by "co-incidence" Cla68's, favoured version. This is not permissible.

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. None

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

LHVU to step away from admin action over the Cl Ch sanctions for one of the usual periods, perhaps a month or two.

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Me asking LHVU to either withdraw the prot or the revert is at User_talk:LessHeard_vanU#Blog_again, as is his refusal

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

Discussion concerning LessHeard vanU

Statement by LessHeard vanU

I have already requested review and comments at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Review of actions, and noted the same on this pages talkpage and - after getting a little lost with the redirected talkpage - the article talkpage. Since this is an Climate Change Probation related article, I think this request is valid - but the input on the ANI page needs taken into account also in participants consideration. Plus, there is discussion at User talk:LessHeard vanU#Blog again that bears review. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:53, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Re action requested; I fail to see why an issue in respect of one article that I am trying to admin unilaterally (per my understanding of both the admins remit and the Climate Change Probation allowances for admin supervision) should, if I were found to have exceeded my duties, extend to disbarring me from CCPe generally - unless it is found I acted so egregiously as to place my sysop status at risk. My actions generally within the CC Probation area are not being examined (yet) so I don't see why there might be good reason consider restrictions in that space. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:06, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments by others about the request concerning LessHeard vanU

Comment by SlimVirgin

LHvU is acting as an uninvolved admin here, trying to get everyone to abide by the content policies and best practice, and so far as I can tell he is doing it without fear or favour.

In the latest incident, William Connolley and Polargeo were trying to pre-empt the results of an RfC posted a few days ago. The RfC asked for fresh input to decide whether Bishop Hill (blog) (a climate-scepticism blog) should be merged into Andrew Montford (the person who runs the blog), or vice versa—or neither. Comments are still arriving, but WMC and Polargeo decided the RfC wasn't necessary and they've twice in the last 24 hours or so made the merge of their choice. LHvU reverted their latest effort, protected the page, and has asked that the RfC be allowed to run its course. If any action needs to be taken it's against the editors trying to close the RfC prematurely. SlimVirgin 22:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Fell Gleaming

It looks like LHVD stopped an edit war, reverted out a page blanking that a user performed without consensus while a merger discussion was still ongoing, then protected the page. I don't see a problem? You're seriously asking for a ban for doing good work like this?

Also, it appears WMC voted for this article to be deleted then, when that failed, voted for a merge and then attempted improperly to merge it while discussion was still ongoing. It appears he's simply upset over the outcome here. Fell Gleaming 21:51, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Its 13-3 in favour of merge. So unless your definition of consensus is "decision I agree with" you're simply wrong William M. Connolley (talk) 21:49, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

It appears the "straw poll" vote section started all of four days ago? And you're already trying to close it out, to the point of starting an edit war over it? And you're surprised an admin stepped in to halt the shenanigans?

Also, I count at least 5 people against merging this article into the biography. I also don't see 13 people voting for it to happen, unless their comments are outside the actual "straw poll" section. However, that all is moot. Trying to close out a merge discussion after just four days is a clear violation of policy. Fell Gleaming 22:21, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

The RfC currently stands at 10 in favour of the proposed merge, and six against. Of the six, three favour a merge in the other direction, and three want no merge at all. That's why it needs to be allowed to continue. SlimVirgin 23:14, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, as I'm sure WMC knows, the process is about more than counting noses. It's about the most compelling argument. Even a cursory look at the situation sees that this article is more notable than the one they're trying to merge it into...and the people voting to merge it are mostly those who recently attempted to delete it. It seems clear this is an attempt to bury information the editors find unfavorable to their views. Fell Gleaming 23:39, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

The merge argument had been made ad nauseum over several talkpage sections including on the article where the merge was requested to. Nobody is counting noses. The RfC can run and run but it has no power to prevent edits or stop a merge that has consensus. We are never going to get 100 % consensus on this (now there is a shock) but I think from all arguments to date it is a clear merge to Montford. Now if you wish for all of those previous discussions to be cut and pasted into the RfC to show this is about more than just votes then I will do that. Polargeo (talk) 09:50, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments by Ratel

Can we please have some rotation on the admins who oversee this area? Currently, we have at least 2 admins here who have quite strong feelings about the content. I infer this from their actions, although I'm sure they'll claim otherwise. Isn't there some way we can roster on other admins? Uninvolved, —I mean truly uninvolved— admins are sorely needed. My previous call for climate expert admins was derided as unworkable, so this would be the next best thing. ► RATEL ◄ 00:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

You'd need to provide evidence of LhvU having strong feelings (or any feelings) on the content issue. I've only been involved in this for a few days, but I see an admin doing his best to uphold the policies and best practice, and let the chips fall where they may. SlimVirgin 01:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

As are we all but I would relish a break from this somewhat thankless task and if we can find some more admins to play a rota is a good plan. --BozMo talk 12:06, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment by ZP5*

This admin rightfully blocked WMC on March 2nd and April 2nd. As one of the few willing to stand up to WMC. By the other comments here, I am suspicious of WMC's motives. I've seen past cases were WMC rakes admins who make him realize the pain his caustic approach causes others. This request may be bordering on an abuse of this page, for which if WMC's past requests are examined closer, a recurring pattern may be seen. , , . This admin has also closed many of WMC's meandering complains here. Outside admins should review the complainer's evasive history and unwarranted RFEs in this project when considering the issue raised. Zulu Papa 5 ☆ (talk) 04:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Comment by Polargeo

Give LessHeard a break. He thinks he was doing the right thing. Although he appears to be as misguided as Lar and Cla are on this. If he will undo his actions then that is fine end of story. As for banning me from editing Bishop Hill after I made a single edit which followed consensus, I just feel a little sorry for him. The only thing I give a fuck about is making sure wikipedia follows consensus. If he is now banning me when I have never even been warned, never edit warred etc. etc. it just shows how much he has lost the plot. Polargeo (talk) 09:00, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh and my action was a simple edit, a single edit to merge the article which attempted to enforce a consensus which had existed before someone stuck an RfC note above everyone's talkpage comments. I didn't close the RfC. I would not do that, did I merge the talkpage? No. If the RfC came to a different conclusion I would have been behind it all the way, yes of course.

Please note Requests for comment (RfC) is an informal, lightweight process for requesting outside input it is not an excuse to prevent edits merges etc. etc. etc. and LHvU is using it to do this completely against policy. He is using his admin tools against policy. Polargeo (talk) 09:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Polargeo is just being a transparent meat puppet for Connolley. His opinion should not be counted separately from Willie's. LHvU is doing a good job. --204.11.245.200 (talk) 18:11, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Sockery. Plus not true. ++Lar: t/c 20:46, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I think LHvU is doing a great job too Polargeo (talk) 21:57, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Other comments

According to the regulation RfCs usually end after 30 days. The reg states that the nominator can close it earlier. WMC is not the nominator of this RfC. WMC used to be an admin and should know better. There probably should be an enforcement action against WMC. Cla68 (talk) 22:14, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Make my day. But you are deliberately obscuring the point: LHVU is entirely welcome to revert the page - or protect it - but not both William M. Connolley (talk) 22:17, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

WMC, did you violate the RfC rules by closing an RfC and taking action before 30 days in which you were not the nominator? Cla68 (talk) 22:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Pretty straight forward misuse of admin tools. You don't revert and then protect except in extreme cases like major BLP violations. Guettarda (talk) 22:20, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

It's standard practice to revert and protect when there's been an abuse of process. It's clearly inappropriate for two involved editors with strong views to close or ignore an RfC that someone else posted just a few days earlier, and while comments are still arriving. The whole point of an RfC is to ask for fresh input, which can take time to arrive. SlimVirgin 22:26, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Per below but to allow response here: starting an RFC has just as much potential for gaming and being an abuse of process as closing one. RFCs do not give a divine right to a sufficient number of editors to Filibuster. In this case the RFC was marginal, the going ahead on some consensus against an open RFC was marginal, doing a revert and protect in these circumstances was marginal. Very hard to call any of them as definitively in or out. And opinion here and on AN/I is divided on each of these three aspects. --BozMo talk 10:42, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Except that even when taking into account the RfC there appears to be a merge consensus. If there had not been I would not have made the edits. However, the RfC should not override conensus. Particularly when it was introduced when the argument against merge was lost and when the RfC to the point of making my edits only appeared to enforce the consensus that already existed. I cannot comprehend how this could be used to stagnate the article via LessHeard's admin tools. Polargeo (talk) 10:50, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

What's the hurry? Since WMC tried to prematurely close the RfC and during the time that you tried to do so, the RfC has received nine additional votes. Of those, four were for the merge and five against, considerably narrowing the "consensus". I would say, just based on that, that this RfC definitely needs to run its full course. Again, what's the hurry? Cla68 (talk) 11:56, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I did not try to close the RfC. I would not try to close the RfC. What WMC does is his own issue, I am not a backer of WMC only of consensus. Starting an RfC is not a carte blanche to keep an article in stagnation for a month even if LHvU seems to think it is. Polargeo (talk) 12:12, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I am missing something here. The linked RFC above seems to stand at 15 merge and 4 don't merge. So presumably I am looking in the wrong place for these 5 recent don't merge votes? Link please --BozMo talk 12:05, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

(EC) @Guettarda: Not true. "Since protecting the most current version sometimes rewards edit warring by establishing a contentious revision, administrators may also revert to an old version of the page predating the edit war if such a clear point exists." Arkon (talk) 22:27, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Two wrongs don't make a right. You either act as an admin or an editor. You can't revert and protect. Not over something as trivial as this. Guettarda (talk) 22:29, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Read my quote, it contradicts your statement directly. Arkon (talk) 22:33, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

No more than IAR contradicts any policy. LHvU is clearly involved in this article - he protected the article for "edit warring" when there was no edit war ongoing. He one editor after a single edit, with no warning. And he advocated in favour of SV's stalling tactics. He did everything he could to prevent the merge, despite consensus. Then he reverted to his preferred version and protected the page. LHvU was one of the edit warriors here. Guettarda (talk) 03:00, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

And "abuse of process"? Seriously? You've never read WP:BURO? Guettarda (talk) 22:30, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Any enforcement involving WMC. Even one requested by WMC, wouldn't be right without Lar popping up as an uninvolved admin and requesting major sanctions against WMC. Sadly very predictable Polargeo (talk) 19:46, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

What is the cutoff for major? Is 9 trouts minor and 10 major then? Or is just one trout major and you'd only accept a minnow as minor? You're being ridiculous. Sadly very predictable. ++Lar: t/c 20:45, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Lar I thought there was an RfC running about you not acting as an uninvolved admin in cases connected to WMC. Going by LHvU's novel interpretation of RfC you should stay well clear for 30 days or LHvU will use his tools on you. Polargeo (talk) 05:34, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh and which part of your statement Alternatively, some sort of sanction against WMC for mucking around could be proposed., is about just trouts? It would be funny if you hadn't already shown that you want WMC topic banned for a year. The fact that you even use the opportunity of WMC bringing a legitimate complaint to call for sanctions against him is really very sad. Polargeo (talk) 05:51, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

What Lar wants is for climate change articles to cease being a war zone, and his suggestion to ban WMC is pursuant to that goal. When you say stuff like Lar "want(s) WMC topic banned", that's a very bad faith assumption because it implies Lar is acting on some interpersonal motive, rather than for the good of the project. That needs to stop. There is no indication that Lar has any ulterior motive in wanting WMC banned, other than he believes that WMC's actions are disruptive enough to warrant a long term ban -- and in fact, unlike your assumptions about Lar's motivations, WMC's disruptive actions are quite well documented (see, for example, his long list of enforcement requests). ATren (talk) 06:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Maybe what Lar wants are several editors like yourself to follow him about and win his arguments for him. Several of the diffs at the RfC do show Lar encourages this sort of behaviour. Polargeo (talk) 14:30, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Macai (talk) 02:15, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Comments by me

Shouldn't this request be viewed as disruptive since Willie obviously knew that it was already being discussed here? Persistent abuse of the community's time like this is deserves a reasonably long block since Willie obviously knows this already. --204.11.245.201 (talk) 18:21, 12 May 2010 (UTC)</ obvious sock of 204.11.245.200 in any case --BozMo talk 19:10, 12 May 2010 (UTC)