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Reporting the News

I have added a few sentences to section on news reporting on the Final Solution in the U.S., based on the NY Times 150th anniversary acknowlegement that they purposefully minimized and obfuscated the news, and the work of Laurel Leff and Deborah Lipstadt. i have linked to another wiki article, The New York Times and the Holocaust. That page is under severe attack by a couple of people who think this is not a mainstream topic, and keeps being gutted, so link at any time is not to the full article.Cimicifugia (talk) 18:51, 24 May 2010 (UTC)cimicifugia

Source

Source for this?

Jews and Romani were confined in overcrowded ghettos before being transported by freight train to extermination camps where, if they survived the journey, the majority of them were systematically killed in gas chambers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by KamikazePyro13 (talk • contribs) 02:21, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Dubious Sources

The paragraph attributed to Hitler that includes comments about hanging Jews from gallows is sourced as follows:

"Hell, Josef. "Aufzeichnung", 1922, ZS 640, p. 5, Institut für Zeitgeschichte, cited in Fleming, Gerald. Hitler and the Final Solution."

I would point out that the Institut für Zeitgeschichte did not exist in 1922.

My German is not very good, but I think this page here http://de.altermedia.info/general/die-gefdaz-in-frankfurt-systemtreue-propaganda-in-reinkultur-190606_6169.html is saying that Hell wrote documents in 1922 which were subsequently, in the 1950s, published by the Institute. I haven't looked in enough detail to determine if that page is, itself, likely to be reliable. Barnabypage (talk) 18:00, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

That is my understanding, and because Hell did not reveal this alleged bombshell of a statement until after the war, and because there is no independent confirmation of the statement, the credibility of the statement is justifiably questioned.

Why sit on something like that for more than 23 years?

It is also said that the style of the German is not typical of Hitler.

I think, at the very least, the sourcing should indicate the date at which the alleged quote was first published, so that people will understand that it does not have the credibility of a contemporary publication. As it is, people will assume that the statement was published in 1922 and that is not the case.

Need to elaborate on the causes

Not enough information is given regarding the causes of anti-semitism. In Germany, as elsewhere, Jews were vastly overrepresented in elite sectors of society relative to their actual share of the population and this bread resentment and envy all over Europe. Also, there was a perceived failure of Jews to assimilate, and as such they were viewed as foreigners who leeched off the host country. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 23:18, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

That's at best a vast oversimplification and at worst antisemitic propaganda. We have fairly good articles on the deeper causes - see the articles linked in the Origins section. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 23:29, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, the Germans weren't targetting the Jews just because they heard some anti-semitic fairy tales. But regardless, the fact that the perception existed should be noted. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 23:48, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

I think the background you want is in this section, with links to various sub-articles for amplification. Crum375 (talk) 00:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

That section just mentions past Christian persecutions and mentions that Hitler hated Jews. It does not mention that the Nazis seized on the high Jewish presence in elite sectors as evidence of a conspiracy against Germans.

Here are some statistics: Jews were 1% of the population yet they

• were 22% of German lawyers (Source: JR Marcus 1934: The rise and destiny of the German Jew, Union of American Hebrew Congregations, Cincinnati. P. 121)

• were 16.5% of German doctors (Source: R Proctor 1988: Racial hygiene: Medicine under the Nazis, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Mass. P.149)

• were 50% of theatre directors (Source: S Gordon 1984: Hitler, Germans and the “Jewish question”, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey. P. 11-14)

• owned 41% of German iron firms and 57% of other metal businesses (Source: S Gordon 1984: Hitler, Germans and the “Jewish question”, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey. P. 11-14)

• sold 26% of all retail sales despite being only 6% of retailers. (source: A Barkai 1989: From boycott to annihilation: The economic struggle of German Jews, 1933-1943, translated by W Templer, University Press of New England, Hanover, New Hampshire p. 7)

69.133.126.117 (talk) 01:26, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Those stats you cite seem to indicate the Jews were successful, smart, and productive. So it would not make sense for the Germans to decide to exterminate the smartest and most productive segment of their society. But on WP any such analysis requires reliable sources, and this type of idle speculation is just original research. What the article does provide is well sourced information, such as a link to Martin Luther who 400 years before the Nazis preached to the Germans that " base, whoring people ... full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine...e are at fault in not slaying them." This type of incitement, although spoken centuries before, likely had some impact on fostering antisemitic sentiments within German society. This was followed by other religious-based incitements against Jews, giving rise to pogroms. So if you follow the cited references, you'll get an idea of the various causes of antisemitism and the Holocaust. Crum375 (talk) 02:19, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Wow... you think the idea that the Nazis and many ordinary Germans were very upset by Jewish dominance in elite sectors is "original research"? With all due respect I find it embarassing that you (and this article) believe that Martin Luther's utterances four centuries ago had more to do with with the Holocaust than the envy and resentment caused by Jewish over-representaion among the elites. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 12:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Martin Luther's preachings are still revered by many today, and he was preceded and followed by similar pronouncements by many other religious and political leaders. This created an ongoing atmosphere of hatred and antisemitism, which escalated into pogroms, and eventually into the Holocaust. But the point is that this article, like all of WP, is based on reliable sources, and not on our personal research or opinions. If you have reliable scholarly sources which you believe can shed more light on this issue, by all means add them. Crum375 (talk) 13:19, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Again, I am embarassed that you are unaware of why the Nazis targetted Jews. But here are some quotes:

The motive of this anti-Semitic fury is simply the growing prosperity of the Jewish colony...High finance and small business are both in hands...In the liberal professions he absorbs everything: he is the lawyer with more briefs and the doctor with more patients (Portuguese novelist Eça de Queiroz, 1880

inhabit the best houses in the best quarters of the town , drive about the parks in the most elegant equipages, figure constantly in the dress circle at the opera and thea-tres, and in this and other ways excite a good deal of envy (Shepherd Thomas Taylor, Reminisces of Berlin during the Franco-Prussian War, London, 1885, pp.236-7).

The purpose of the association formed under the title “League of Anti-Semites” is to...strive...towards the one aim of saving our German fatherland from complete Jew-ification...by making it its task to force the Semites back into a position corresponding to their numbers (This is the beginning of the program published in 1879 by the Antisemiten Liga (“League of Anti-Semites”), the first organization anywhere to bear that title (Pulzer 1988, p.49)).

Year after year across our eastern border, out of the inexhaustible Polish cradle, pours a host of ambitious pants-selling youths whose children and grandchildren will one day dominate Germany’s stock exchange and press…. Right into the most educated circles, among men who would reject with disgust every thought of religious intolerance or national arrogance, we hear from every mouth: “The Jews are our misfortune” (Professor Heinrich von Treitschke in Ein Wort über unser Judentum (A Word about Our Jews), which reprinted arti-cles published in 1879 and 1880. Treitschke was the most highly regarded authority on mod-ern German history. “The Jews are our misfortune” (Die Juden sind unser Unglück) became a rallying cry of German anti-Semites. The Nazis plastered it throughout streets and squares when they attained power).

Recently a corpse was found...The corpse was examined – and at hand were a Jewish doctor, a Jewish surgeon, a Jewish judge, a Jewish lawyer – only the corpse was German (Adolf Stöcker, Die Juden Frage (The Jewish Problem) Berlin, 1880, p.138).

control banking and commerce, the arteries of finance; they dominate the press and, on a scale completely out of proportion to their numbers, they are flooding the institutions of higher learning (From Adolf Stöcker’s first anti-Semitic speech, in 1879 (Rürup 1975, p.20)

Before the Hitlerite Government took office the Jewish problem in Germany was admittedly becoming a serious one. It is obvious to any observer that the average German...is distinctly inferior in an artistic sense and even in a purely intellectual sense to the German Jew. Wher-ever imagination, financial acumen or business flair comes into play, the Jew tends to outdis-tance his German rival, and in every domain of intellectual effort the achievements of the Jews are entirely out of proportion to their numbers....Medicine, the law, the press, imagina-tive literature, architecture and the like, might, in time, become completely monopolised by the Jewish element (The explanation for German anti-Semitism by the British ambassador to Germany, Sir Horace Rumbold, in an official report on March 28, 1933 (Woodward and But-ler 1956, p.5)).

A self-respecting nation cannot, on a scale accepted up to now, leave its higher activities in the hands of people of racially foreign origin (The explanation in the Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung of April 27, 1933 for the law enacted by the Nazi government of Germany to restrict the proportion of Jewish students at German universities. As could be expected from the Na-zis, the law was draconian. It limited the proportion of Jewish university students to three times the proportion of Jews who were of university age in the German population, and that did not include the children of Jewish World War I combatants, who were many).

The most important chairs at so-called German universities were filled with Jews ...were then rewarded with Nobel Prizes (From “a violently anti-Jewish speech delivered...by Education Minister Rust” (Friedländer 1997, p.57)).

The five big “D-banks” of the country were in Jewish hands; practically the entire theatre; a large section of the daily and periodical press, business in every field (Kurt Lüdecke’s de-scription of the Jewish problem (1937, p.33). Lüdecke was an ardent Nazi since 1922 and a personal associate of Hitler’s).

This legislation is not anti-Jewish, but pro-German. The rights of Germans are thereby to be protected...The Jews, who formed less than one percent of the population, tried to monopolize the cultural leadership of the people and flooded the intellectual professions, such as law and medicine (From Adolf Hitler’s justification for the Nüremberg Laws, which deprived Jews of German citizenship (Baynes 1942, pp.732-3)).

The million workmen who were in Berlin in 1914... thinner, worse clad, poor; but the 100,000 Jews from the East who entered Germany in the early years of the War arrived in poverty and they are now “made men” riding in cars (From a speech by Hitler in 1922 (Baynes 1942, p.7)).

We see that in Germany Jewification progresses in literature, the theatre, music and film; that our medical world is Jewified, and the world of our lawyers too; that in our universities ever more Jews come to the fore (From a speech by Hitler on August 31, 1928 (Friedländer 1997, p.102)).

One may well exclaim: “Cowardice thy name is bourgeoisie!” Although the Jew has seized the levers of control in the Anglo-Saxon world – the press, the cinema, the radio, economic life...the bourgeois of the two countries , with the rope around their necks, tremble at the idea of rebelling against him even timidly. What is hap-pening in the Anglo-Saxon world is absolutely identical with what we experienced here in 1918 (Hitler 1988, p.394).

If five thousand Jews were transported to Sweden, within a short time, they would occupy all the leading positions there (Hitler 1980, p.241).

Jews can prosper anywhere, even in Lapland and Siberia (Hitler 1988, p.397)).

If all Jews were no more intelligent than Stein, then there wouldn’t be any trouble (A com-ment that Adolf Hitler used to make to members of his regiment during World War I. Stein was their telephone operator (Toland 1976, p.66)).

Seriously, this isn't that hard. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 15:49, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

The history of anti-semitism in Europe goes back to a time when Jews were excluded from all social elites. If you're suggesting that the sole cause of the Holocaust was a Jewish disproportion in higher socio-economic groups, you are overlooking that. If you're suggesting that it was a failure on the part of Jews to assimilate, you have to explain why German anti-semitism was so virulent, when the German Jews were among the most assimilated in Europe.

Seriously, history is quite hard. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 16:22, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I never said it was the "sole" cause. It was the main cause. Regardless, it is disturbing that this information has been completely censored from this article. Regarding assimilation, I don't know whether or not they were assimilated, but the point is that the Nazis believed that the Jews were foreigners enroaching on the Germans. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 18:28, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Antisemitism was not exclusive to Germany. In fact, virtually any country with a sizable Jewish minority had it. But Germany was the only country which systematically exterminated that minority. To explain it, you need more than the views of the antisemites, because they lack the historical and sociological perspective to do so. In fact, I don't believe any of your above sources explains what was special about Germany's antisemitism which culminated in the Holocaust, vs. all the others around the world which remained as just "normal" hostility towards a religious minority. This is where you need the right kind of sources: recognized scholars who specialize in the Holocaust and its causes, who have focused their academic career on this topic. If you have such sources who add more information, and explain why Germany's antisemitism was so much more virulent than all the rest, to the point of genocide, please provide them. Crum375 (talk) 18:47, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

There is a section called "origins" and it completely fails to mention Jewish influence that was primarily responsible for the resentment existing (rightly or wrongly). As to your question, it led to the Holocaust because the Nazis believed that the Jews were by nature so successful that the only permanant and full-proof solution to the "Jewish Question" was the full implementation of the "Final Solution". 69.133.126.117 (talk) 19:08, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion that "Jewish influence... was primarily responsible for the resentment..." is not shared by historians of the subject. If it were, you would be able to cite them, rather than continuing to offer your own interpretation. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 19:51, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

It also does not explain what was special about German antisemitism which led to genocide, vs. all the rest. Crum375 (talk) 19:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

The current language in "origins" does nothing to explain what was special about Germany's antisemitism that would result in mass extermination of Jews. Crum375's explanation, if it is true, does a much better job in this regard. So that criticism of his proposal has no merit. Also, I don't agree that you can discount the views of antisemites in trying to understand what drove the Nazis to commit mass extermination of Jews. I understand the desire to disregard and diminish the significance of thoughts expressed by people with abhorrent views, but in order to understand the behavior of criminals it is most important and most relevant to understand their perceptions and motivations. 24.16.112.218 (talk) 20:19, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Whatever we say in the article, has to be directly attributed to high quality scholarly sources. We do include quite a few quotes from Hitler and other antisemites, so their views are not hidden. The current 'Origins' section explains, based on scholarly sources, that the antisemitism in Germany, which led to the Holocaust, did not materialize overnight, but was a gradual centuries-long process, which began during the middle ages. We include links to Martin Luther and his incitement against the Jews, and the general antisemitism article. The crucial point is that it was a long, continuing process, which culminated with the Nazi party's rise to power and the Holocaust. If you have high quality scholarly sources presenting a different view, you need to provide them, not argue based on personal knowledge. Crum375 (talk) 21:01, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I have cited numerous sources proving that Jews were disliked by anti-semites because of their dispropotionate influence. At the bear minimum statistics demonstrating this should be added and it should be noted that Nazis used this as justification for their anti-semitic policies. On the other hand, no proof has been provided to show that Nazis were mainly motivated by religious teachings. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 21:24, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

You have cited numerous primary sources. The job of a wikipedia editor is to present the consensus view of expert historians, i.e. to summarise secondary sources. We do not make our own synthesis from primary sources. If your interpretation had merit, it would be widely represented in the massive secondary literature.

Executive summary: Quote historians. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 22:12, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

I cited quotes that came from secondary sources. But that seems like an awfully shallow excuse to censor highly relevant information from the article. Basically you're saying that we cannot mention the official, public position of Nazi Germany and Adolf Hitler because I don't happen to have a collection of Holocaust books right next to me. Meanwhile, blaming Christianity for the Holocaust, an explanation which is completely unexplained and was not adopted by any Third Reich officials, is okay because three historians allegedly said so. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 22:48, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

This article is primarily based on respected scholarly sources, who are noted historians specializing in the Holocaust. If you don't happen to have a collection of Holocaust books right next to you, you can drive or walk to your nearest public library, and I am sure a librarian would be more than happy to point you to the relevant ones. If you then find material from respected Holocaust historians which you believe sheds new light on the Origins section, please share it with us. What you can't do is rely on non-historians, or non-specialists, or your own personal knowledge. Crum375 (talk) 22:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Do you seriously believe that it is not a problem that no information is given regarding the Nazis publicly stated beliefs about disproportionate Jewish influence, while at the same time citing past Christian hostility that literally had nothing to do with the Nazis or 1930s Germany? Do you care for a second that this article has deceived millions of people into believing that the Holocaust was an entirely religiously motivated conflict? Anyone who has read Nazi speeches knows that they perceived Jews to be threatening Germans in the elite sectors of society. This is a claim frequently touted by anti-semites past and present. I cited some of them. And you are telling me that there is no conceivable way that this can be included? Your demand for secondary sources is technically reasonable but your utter lack of concern for the inclusion of (well known) basic information tells me you aren't very interested in the truth. Sadly, your position will only confirm the beliefs of anti-semites world-wide who believe that there is a conspiracy to suppress any and all information that would make the Nazis and other anti-semites look less than 100% irrational and Christianity less than 100% culpable for antisemitism, even if the said information came from members of a regime which is widely regarded as the worst in history. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 00:09, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

All these words are your own words, which are of no value when it comes to article space. If you really want to achieve results and contribute to the article, you need to cite respectable Holocaust-specialist historians. Misplaced Pages is not about what we as editors think or know, but what reliable sources have written. Crum375 (talk) 00:19, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Such strict protocol is almost never followed on other articles, but I managed to dig up one source which notes that

Anti-Semites never tired of citing these and other statistics to ‘prove’ that Jews enjoyed an unfair and privileged status

Source: BF Pauley 1987: “Political anti-Semitism in interwar Vienna” in I Oxaal, M Pollack and G Botz (editors) Jews, anti-Semitism and culture in Vienna, Routledge & Kegan Paul, London, pp.155.

Is that good enough? 69.133.126.117 (talk) 01:00, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

The source appears to be reliable: we use that author in Antisemitism. But it's not a historian specializing in the Holocaust, and it doesn't tell us what were the causes for the Holocaust, or even the real causes for antisemitism. Just because antisemites cite statistics of Jews being successful, doesn't mean it's the real cause of that sociological phenomenon. And even if it were, the point here is not antisemitism in general, but specifically why did antisemitism in Germany, unlike the many other countries where it was prevalent, rise to the level of genocide. Crum375 (talk) 01:17, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

But it's not a historian specializing in the Holocaust

The section in question is about the background situation of Jews, not the holocaust itself.

Just because antisemites cite statistics of Jews being successful, doesn't mean it's the real cause of that sociological phenomenon.

That is irrelevant to the fact that the charge was frequently made by antisemites.

And even if it were, the point here is not antisemitism in general, but specifically why did antisemitism in Germany, unlike the many other countries where it was prevalent, rise to the level of genocide.

The section currently makes no effort to address that anyway.

69.133.126.117 (talk) 22:30, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

The 'Origins' section is pretty poor, in my opinion; a quick, stereotyped, comic-book picture of what must have been a very complex situation. Clearly German society apparently wasn't simply "suffused with anti-Semitism" if German Jews were so successful in society, and a more informed and detailed picture ought to be presented. I also think 'Crum375' and others are acting as gatekeepers; but, given that the subject is complex, the Holocaust article is already long and a long and detailed 'Origins' section would distract from its main thrust, I think it would be informative and unobtrusive to see a separate article (for example: 'Origins of the Holocaust (German society before WWII)'), linked to from this one. How about it, 69.133.126.117 ? (Farawaychris (talk) 03:54, 19 April 2010 (UTC))

I have the feeling that if we were to go back to the archives we would find that we have been here before. The section is about the origins of the Holocaust, i.e. the genocide, and there is no doubt among historians that the central factor was anti-semitism. German history, culture and society was suffused with anti-semitism (references are clear). Why anti-semitism was so strong in German society during the 1930s is another issue and is treated elsewhere in Misplaced Pages, where I am sure it could be improved upon (i.e. Antisemitism and Antisemitism in Europe).Joel Mc (talk) 11:09, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Links to Further Information on the Holocaust: http://www.ihr.org/leaflets/auschwitz.shtml http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v05/v05p-15_Berg.html http://globalfire.tv/nj/03en/history/finalsolutions.htm http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p421_Weber.html http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/thottc/index.html#toc

Most of these are very long, but give good information and various sources on the Holocust. —Preceding unsigned comment added by FireWaterAirEarth (talk • contribs) 14:48, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

All denier bollocks. Squiddy | (squirt ink?) 18:27, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

Assertion with Insufficient Support

I have always understood the holocaust to refer to the extermination of people during World War II by the nazis in concentration camps. I have never understood it to be exclusively a reference to killing of Jews. The Misplaced Pages article references a single author and the Encylopedia Britannica entry to support its statement that this is the generally accepted usage of the term. However, if you check Merriam Webster and Free Dictionary they both refer to the extermination of Jews and other groups. Almost every source I have read during my lifetime has included Jews and other people as victims of the holocaust. The editors of this article are attempting to rewrite history and defy the vast majority of historical sources and scholarship with this unsupported assertion. Chidofu (talk) 04:27, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Here is the best scholarship I could find on the meaning of the word, referencing the official definition given the term by the then President of the United States Jimmy Carter with the approval of Simon Wisenthal from Jon Petrie's article:

A few weeks after the screening of The Holocaust, partly as a gesture to the American Jewish community unhappy with the intended sale of American fighter planes to Saudi Arabia, President Carter announced the American government's intention to create a memorial "to the six million who were killed in the Holocaust." Following protests by Polish-Americans and Ukrainian-Americans, who demanded that the millions of their own killed by the Nazis be recognized in any American taxpayer supported memorial, and perhaps reflecting his own ecumenical humanism, Carter in his 1979 Executive Order creating the United States Holocaust Memorial Council adopted a version of Simon Wisenthal's formulation and defined "the Holocaust" as the "... extermination of six million Jews and some five million other peoples ..."

He also states:

The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum avoids the "five million" formulation and defines the "the Holocaust" in at least one of its publications as the "murder of six million Jews and millions of non-Jews by the Nazis and their collaborators during World War II." (In other publications it is unclear whether non-Jews murdered are considered Holocaust victims.

He mentions that other statements from the Memorial Museum and the Simon Wisenthal Center avoid making any statement as to whether the non-Jews who died were Holocaust victims, thus avoiding the controversy that would surround this conclusion. Apparently the editors of this entry do not share their legitimate concerns and more thoughtful approach to this issue. 24.16.112.218 (talk) 19:57, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Proposed rewrite of "Origins"

Origins

From the Middle Ages onward, German society and culture were suffused with anti-Semitism and some scholars maintain that there was a direct link from medieval pogroms to the Nazi death camps of the 1940s.

Hans Küng has written that "Nazi anti-Judaism was the work of godless, anti-Christian criminals. But it would not have been possible without the almost two thousand years' pre-history of 'Christian' anti-Judaism..."

A more immediate reason for anti-Semitism in Germany was the resentment generated by the high profile status of Jews in German society. Although Jews were less than 1% of Germany’s population, Jews

• were 22% of German lawyers
• were 16.5% of German doctors
• were 50% of theatre directors
• owned 41% of German iron firms and 57% of other metal businesses
• sold 26% of all retail sales despite being only 6% of retailers.

Anti-semites persistently used this evidence to claim that the Jews “enjoyed an unfair and privileged status”. In Mein Kampf (1925), Hitler had been open about his hatred of Jews, and gave ample warning of his intention to drive them from Germany's political, intellectual, and cultural life. He did not write that he would attempt to exterminate them, but he is reported to have been more explicit in private.

The Nazi Party under Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany on January 30, 1933, and the persecution and exodus of Germany's 525,000 Jews began almost immediately. The Nuremberg Laws were justified by stating that “ self-respecting nation cannot, on a scale accepted up to now, leave its higher activities in the hands of people of racially foreign origin”

I also think the speculative Hitler quote has to go. It is highly unlikely that Hitler would have admitted to planning the annihilation of Jews to anyone not in his inner circle. 69.133.126.117 (talk) 21:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

The section is generally correct, in my view. It could be expanded by explaining how the antisemitism of the Nazis, based on a racist ideology, was different from the medieval antisemitism, yet of course the existence of traditional hatred and discrimination against Jews facilitated racist antisemitism taking root. Hitler was quite explicit in Mein Kampf. We should use a quote from that book in preference to the quote that is now in the article. The current quote could create the impression that the Holocaust somehow mainly happened because Hitler wanted it to happen.  Cs32en Talk to me  21:44, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Serbs

Can someone please add Serbs to the list of minorities killed at the top? More Serbs were killed than Romani, so it doesn't make sense not to have them listed too. I think it would be only fair, since there are half a million Serb civilian deaths at least. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.111.242.152 (talk) 13:29, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

1. Friedländer 1997, p.102
2. UMN.edu, "Boycotts", Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies, University of Minnesota. Retrieved September 6, 2006.
3. Yehuda Bauer- A History of the Holocaust, 1982
4. Raul Hilberg, The Destruction of the European Jews, 1961.
5. Lucy Dawidowicz, The War Against the Jews, 1975
6. Hans Küng, On Being a Christian (Doubleday, Garden City NY, 1976), p. 169.
7. JR Marcus 1934: The rise and destiny of the German Jew, Union of American Hebrew Congregations, Cincinnati. P. 121)
8. R Proctor 1988: Racial hygiene: Medicine under the Nazis, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Mass. P.149)
9. Hitler, Germans and the “Jewish question”, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey. P. 11-14
10. S Gordon 1984: Hitler, Germans and the “Jewish question”, Princeton University Press, Princeton, New Jersey. P. 11-14
11. A Barkai 1989: From boycott to annihilation: The economic struggle of German Jews, 1933-1943, translated by W Templer, University Press of New England, Hanover, New Hampshire p. 7)
12. BF Pauley 1987: “Political anti-Semitism in interwar Vienna” in I Oxaal, M Pollack and G Botz (editors) Jews, anti-Semitism and culture in Vienna, Routledge & Kegan Paul, London, pp.155.
13. The explanation in the Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung of April 27, 1933 for the law enacted by the Nazi government of Germany to restrict the proportion of Jewish students at German universities.

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