Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 07:31, 25 May 2004

Archive 1: Talk:India/archive 1

India's main page requires culling to limit the file size under 30 Kb as per wikipedia's recommendations. Nichalp 19:27, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

Religion in India: caste

If we're going to label Hinduism as 'caste' and vice versa, we're not being faithful to reality nor NPOV. It has also to do with the nature of society and feudalism in communities that were justified by caste prejudices incorporated into religion, much like Divine Right in feudal Europe. Also, it is well-acknowledged that there does exist great caste prejudices in many non-Hindu communities in India, certainly not all, but enough that it is not merely a 'status symbol.' Also, major movements in Hinduism have, since before Buddha, been against caste. So to define all of Hinduism as embedded in caste while ignoring its history of vedanta, yoga, tantra and bhakti movements galore, is in my mind irresponsible and inaccurate. Let us discuss further. --LordSuryaofShropshire 20:31, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

I know casteism is a curse, unfortunately it has crept into other religions in India which abhors it. You are right in pointing out that caste is a part of Hindu society. A lot of Goan Catholics (see any matrimonials) do brazenly proclaim that they are Brahmin Catholics, inspite of the Church against caste.

Unfortunately the Indian government, officially banning casteism, still has reservations for castes. I also wish to seek further opinion: Can a hindu marriage be sanctified by a priest who's a non brahmin? Are all Hindu priests necessarily Brahmin? Nichalp 19:00, May 7, 2004 (UTC)

Well, just to clarify convention. Technically, anyone who is a Hindu priest is called a Brahmin. But of course, there is the caste. People differentiate between a practicing Brahmin and one of the Brahmin caste. Unfortunately, yes, Brahmins (priests) are usually culled only from the Brahmin caste. --LordSuryaofShropshire 21:03, May 7, 2004 (UTC)

Just to add to LordSurya's response, in many villages in Tamil Nadu, there are no Brahmins left; because of, among other reasons, the Dravidian movement, the Brahmins have all migrated to cities. Lots of village temples thus have priests who're not Brahmins. I wouldn't be surprised if this were the case in many other regions. Ambarish Talk 22:13, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Casteism hasn't crept into other religions as someone has mentioned above and in the main page. It is just that people retain or are forced to retain their caste affiliations even after conversion to other religions. KRS 03:18, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

You are quite wrong KRS. Just recently there was an uproar in Kerala because Christian converts barred lower-castes from their church and refused to let them in. No one was forcing them to do anything. In the same way, many Hindus do reject casteism and many Hindu movements from years ago reject caste categorically. --LordSuryaofShropshire 05:11, May 8, 2004 (UTC)

No, I am right as the incident you bring out itself shows - you are talking of converts, so obviously, even after changing their religion, the caste affiliations are either proudly retained or used as a means of supression in case of upper castes or are being thrust upon on lower castes; also lower caste converts retain their caste identity for benefits- for example Dalit Christians. That covers the exact meaning conveyed by my statement. The issue here is not Hinduism, but Hindu society, or rather, Indian society that is largely determined by Hindu practices. Indian society and culture should be seen as one including Muslims, Hindus and Christians, they are definitely no different. There is an Indian consciousness that separates Indian Christians or Muslims from their counterparts elsewhere. My edits in Indian society convey this clearly. KRS 06:31, 8 May 2004 (UTC)

I submit you are right. Nicely made points and changes. --LordSuryaofShropshire 22:59, May 8, 2004 (UTC)

the lodhi dynasty are pukhtun afghan, not turkic. there are some other inaccuracies as well.

Why is the Hindi being removed from the India article?

Why is the Hindi in the India article meaning "Republic of India" being removed? WhisperToMe 05:01, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

1. It is totally irrelevant here, 2. The word "India" doesn't have any relation to "Hindi" as "Japan" vs. "Japanese" or so, 3. The page is also available in Hindi

It is standard practice to give the names of countries in their own official language. john k 05:21, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

So...it is ok to add all the national languages (List of national languages of India) here???

The other languages are basically official languages for different Indian states, aren't they? So it would make more sense to list them in the articles on those states than in articles on India. English and Hindi are the two official languages of national administration, so it makes sense to give the name in Hindi, but not in the other languages, in this article. john k 06:02, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, all languages should be listed or removed as all the languages important. And it is much awkward to see translation, transliteration and explanation everything there. And it is skeptical, how many people call India as Bharat Ganarajya as stated here. Just do a Google search and all the sources linked to the Wiki and clones--no other pages or sources.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. As an official language, Hindi has a status different from that of the other national languages. It would also be impracticable to list 18 different names. So what's wrong with just giving the English and Hindi? john k 06:43, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Not sure, whether you read the previous reply or not. And couldn't understand it is the place for language or usage evangelification as no other pages refer such

Alright, I'm not sure if you read my previous reply. I have no idea what you're talking about. English and Hindi have a status in India which is above and beyond that of the other national languages. It would be impractical to list 20 different names in the box, and not very useful. As such, it makes sense to just list the English and Hindi names, and no others. This is not about Misplaced Pages promoting Hindi - it is about acknowledging the already existing fact that Hindi is an "official language" of India in a way that the other languages are not. Beyond that, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. john k 07:31, 25 May 2004 (UTC)