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Revision as of 12:36, 10 July 2010 editBigweeboy (talk | contribs)Pending changes reviewers19,193 edits →"add balancing point per NPOV"← Previous edit Revision as of 16:17, 10 July 2010 edit undoDavid spector (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users5,047 edits →Tantric source for TM mantras - request quote: No trantric source, of courseNext edit →
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::::Since we have a source that describes the mantras as coming from the Tantric tradition, and we also have sources that say the mantras come from the Vedic tradition, I would think can have both citing the authors. I can't add this tonight, but possibly tomorrow unless someone gets to it before I do. (] (]) 01:06, 6 July 2010 (UTC)) ::::Since we have a source that describes the mantras as coming from the Tantric tradition, and we also have sources that say the mantras come from the Vedic tradition, I would think can have both citing the authors. I can't add this tonight, but possibly tomorrow unless someone gets to it before I do. (] (]) 01:06, 6 July 2010 (UTC))
::::::I've added text and source on the mantras and Tantric tradition.(] (]) 02:51, 7 July 2010 (UTC)) ::::::I've added text and source on the mantras and Tantric tradition.(] (]) 02:51, 7 July 2010 (UTC))

::Books can get things wrong. If you study Tantrism<ref>.</ref>, you will discover that it is mostly about the spiritual use of the sexual impulse. This was not a topic of interest of Adi Shankara<ref>].</ref>, nor of any of his long line of disciples.<ref>.</ref>

::Anyone actually familiar with Tantrism knows that it is not connected with the Shankarcharya meditation mantras, no matter what any books say. WP is in error to define accuracy and truth as that which is printed in published books, newspapers, or websites anyway.

::I see that Fladrif is still around, acting as he usually does, like the know-it-all policeman of WP. I would have thought he would go away after the strong condemnation, out of all of the TMM article editors, of his behavior by the ArbCom. As discussed below, I resent the nastiness I perceive. I, myself, try my best to be helpful and supportive in my ] here at WP.

:: The WP rules and policies are almost all relevant to articles, not to talk pages. Mostly here we only need to be polite and considerate with each other, and confine our comments to the associated article. I have now broken both these rules because I find Fladrif's statements, and the implicit acceptance of Fladrif's participation by everyone else here to be incredibly irritating. I'm only human, and I can get angry and judgmental when someone interferes with the constructive atmosphere of WP in order to meet his personal needs at the expense of others. ] 16:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)


=== Patel === === Patel ===

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References

Outdated information on SCI

I'm just noticing that there's some outdated information on SCI. MUM no longer offers a PhD in SCI. Undergraduate students no longer take SCI at MUM. There is no Maharishi European Research University in Switzerland. Subjects are no longer taught with reference to SCI. The term "creative intelligence" is rarely used. Maharishi Vedic Science has replaced the Science of Creative Intelligence. I see that the sources for this information are dated. TimidGuy (talk) 11:14, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Sources?   Will Beback  talk  11:31, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I only know what I read. There was a MERU in Switzerland as recently as March 2006, judging by this website. Meanwhile, there's a September 2006 source that reports a MERU in Vlodrop. Did it move or have there been two MERUs? 12:29, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
I confess to being baffled by claims like this, just as in the case of the discussion of rounding above. It is not useful to claim that information in the article or that sources are outdated without explicitly stating (i) how, and in what respect the information is claimed to be incorrect or outdated, and (ii) providing sources. Current, official TM websites actively promote SCI. To claim that "Maharishi Vedic Science" has replaced SCI is an extraordinary claim in light of the fact that SCI is currently being used and was the core of the educational program and required for all students at MUM throughout its existence. MUM's current website states the raison d'etre of MUM: "Maharishi announced his intention to create a university whose entire curriculum would incorporate the Science of Creative Intelligence. Its name would be Maharishi International University."
Are we to accept on faith that this has now all been assigned to the dustbin? What do you mean by "replaced"? Is is a new name for the same thing or something completely different? Cryptic and unspported claims, like "It's different, but I can't tell you how or why because it's a secret" are useless to us as editors and counter-productive to collaboration. Verifiable, reliable sources, not individual editor opinions, judgments and claims of personal knowledge are what we need here. Fladrif (talk) 13:33, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
The current MUM web site lists all the undergrad, MA and Ph.D. programs on the web page . I do not see ant degrees in SCI currently on offer. --BwB (talk) 18:53, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
On the issue of the Ph.D.s, we can finesse the issue by changing "are awarded" to "have been awarded". That's still consistent with sources, etc. As for the rest, we need explicit sources not personal research.   Will Beback  talk  20:46, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Will. Note that there is also no longer an undergraduate course in SCI and it's no longer a required course for every student. There is no undergraduate course in the Science of Creative Intelligence.. I'll adjust that too. TimidGuy (talk) 10:42, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
The problem with that edit is you deleted the fact that MUM used to require the class, yet you left the source which said so. Could you please restore the fact that, at least in the past, MUM students have been required to view the 33-tape SCI lecture series? There are more than one source for this, if we need to further establish it as a fact.   Will Beback  talk  11:10, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
  • I don't understand why we've added a reference to "Science and Technology of Consciousness" to the SCI section. What it is the relationship, if any? Regarding SCI at MUM, I have a student handbook from 2003 which says that it was a requirement for all students, so the change is apparently since then. The text should reflect that it was a previous requirement. An undated (circa 1999) paper by Samuel Boothby says: "For the past 26 years, all students who have attended M.U.M. take the 33 Science of Creative Intelligence (SCI) lessons as their first course." There are other sources as well for it having been a general requirement in the past.   Will Beback  talk  01:21, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
I am equally baffled, particularly since no-one had deigned to answer the questions which I posed above. If we are to take as true that MUM has abandoned 30+ years of tradition that required all incoming freshmen to take the 33-lecture SCI course, and that taught all subjects as aspects of SCI, we need sources to verify this. On top of this, it would be helpful to those of us who are not TM and MUM insiders to have an explanation, even if not sourced, as to when and why MUM would make such a sea change in its approach. If, on the other hand, this is just a change of nomenclature, acknowledging and explaining that would make this all a lot more understandable. Fladrif (talk) 01:36, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Per WP:VERIFIABLE "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material". The definitive source for whether SCI is being taught now is the university handbook. If its not there, not up to us to say it is now being taught. I don't see any problem with a statement something like," SCI was taught until such and such a date for incoming students", or something like that as long as its sourced, but we do want to be accurate don't we.(olive (talk) 02:54, 13 June 2010 (UTC))
In this case the handbooks are primary sources, and it's a bit dicey to use one to contradict a reliable secondary source. We have multiple sources which says it was a requirement, including one that says it was in place for at least 26 years. We have a 2003 handbook which includes the requirement. We have no source that gives a date for the end of the requirement. I'm inclined to remove the STC mention, and to alter the text to read something like, "For most of its history, MUM required all students to ..., but by 2009 it was only required of graduate students. " Is that celar enough for everyone?   Will Beback  talk  03:19, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Text proposed by Will is OK for me if supported by reliable sources. --BwB (talk) 06:55, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
The "...but by 2009, it was only required of graduate students" isn't reliably sourced, for the reasons stated by Will above. The rest of it is fine, leaving open whether or not, and when, the change was made. Again, I have seen no answer to my questions on this issue.Fladrif (talk) 14:56, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
What we can say to avoid OR is something," like SCI was taught at MUM until....From (date) to (date) it (or SCI) is taught only to graduate students. The MUM handbook would be be an appropriate source for information on what is being taught at MUM.(olive (talk) 17:34, 13 June 2010 (UTC))
And to answer Flad's question. I'm not party to why a university changes its courses, but you could always call the admissions office and ask. The admissions office does answer such questions I believe, so if there was a public answer, I'm sure they'll be happy to tell you. At the same time, universities adjust curricula all of the time, and those are internal, academic situations and decisions that may be inappropriate to discuss with those outside the university.(olive (talk) 17:38, 13 June 2010 (UTC))
That doesn't answer my question. For 30+ years, all incoming freshmen were required, as their first course, to take the 33-lecture SCI course. For 30+ years all subjects were taught as aspects of SCI, and to do so was the founding purpose of MIU. That is what all our sources say, and is confirmed by official MUM publications. According to TG, neither is the case any longer. That strikes me, if true, as an astounding, fundamental change in educational philosophy and approach. It is not like some small college decided to drop Ancient Greek and start offering Mandarin Chinese - though even that is likely to make the local paper and be hotly debated in the Alumni Association newsletter, with the Administration issuing an official explanation and statement. It made the news, and official statements and explanations were issued, and controversies aired, every time a private college or university dropped mandatory chapel.When colleges and univesities make fundamental changes in their curriculum - like going to or abandoning a "Great Books" curriculum - they always explain publicly what they're doing and why: certaily to their important constituencies: students, faculty, alumni, donors - and the changes more often than not become matters of more general news reportage and controversy. I can think of dozens, and can readily find hundreds and thousands of examples. No-one would seriously contend that such a change, large or small, even at a school as small as MUM, is confidential and not to be discussed outside the university. That none of the editors who are actually in a position to say from personal knowledge why or even when this supposedly happened, is truly curious. That silence and intimations of confidentiality lead me to question the claim even more than the inability to produce verifiable reliable sources. Fladrif (talk) 19:37, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh for heaven's sake, Fladrif, call the university if you want an answer... I have no idea what the situation is, and have no clue if any other editor does....Don't make a mountain out of a molehill...sheesh... And it didn't say the situation was confidential, I said it might be ....I don't see the local press panting at the university gates looking for a story on the SCI. To assume an editor is in position to know this is....an assumption. Good Grief ... Much ado about nothing.(olive (talk) 19:53, 13 June 2010 (UTC))

Further. Per the sources which is what this is about...If the handbook says no SCI for undergraduate students, we have to go with that, and if we have sources that say there was SCI we can use that too...Its simple.(olive (talk) 20:01, 13 June 2010 (UTC))

While Olive may not know about this changeover, apparently TimidGuy does know so when he returns maybe he can answer Fladrif's questions. As for which sources are best, the usual standard is that secondary sources are preferable. However the handbook would seem sufficient for the simple issue of whether SCI is a current requirement for undergraduates.   Will Beback  talk  21:16, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
Will's proposal sounds like the simplest and most practical one to me. A quick look on MUM's General Degree Requirements web pages for Master's degrees , Ph.D. degrees and Bachelor degrees shows that while the first two require students to take the 33 Lesson SCI course, the third one does not. Finding a secondary source with the same information just does not seem practical.--Luke Warmwater101 (talk) 00:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
We have secondary sources that discuss SCI being an undergraduate requirement. There's no reasons why we shouldn't be able to find a secondary source for this this, yet none seems to exist. It's a bit odd that this change was made without any kind of announcement or explanation. However we've cited the MUM Handbook before, so I don't think there's a sufficient reasons to avoid using it in this case. I don't here anyone defending the addition of "Science and Technology of Consciousness" to this section, so I assume that removing it won't be controversial.   Will Beback  talk  01:43, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
Another one:
  • . Without proper intellectual understanding, experience of pure consciousness can be misunderstood, as it has been numerous times throughout history. At Maharishi University of Management, this requirement is satisfied by all students taking a course in the Science of Creative Intelligence®—the science of consciousness—as their first course at the University.
    • "Consciousness-Based(SM) Education: A Future of Higher Education in the New Millennium" by James D. Grant, in The University in Transformation: Global Perspectives on the Futures of the University published by Greenwood Publishing Group, 2000.
So there are a number of secondary sources that have said it is a requirement, and only one primary source which says it is no longer one.   Will Beback  talk  04:54, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
More recently, Complete Book of Colleges, 2007 Edition By Princeton Review includes the undergraduate requirement. All new students take a foundation course, "The Science of Creative Intelligence". I believe it was published in 2006.   Will Beback  talk  05:30, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
We should go by the University catalog. It was changed about two or three years ago. There is no more definitive source than the catalog. TimidGuy (talk) 15:34, 14 June 2010 (UTC) Regarding Fladrif's question, SCI principles are still used, but the more general term Maharishi Vedic Science has replaced SCI for the most part. TimidGuy (talk) 15:39, 14 June 2010 (UTC)
TG, to repeat what I think was one of Fladrif's questions: Was this significant change made without any announcement? Was the omission from the handbook the first that anyone knew of this change? Since MIU was founded to teach and investigate SCI, and since this was the core curricula for over 30 years, it seems remarkable if there were no comments or discussions when that curriculum was dropped. Did it coincide with the Maharishi's death?   Will Beback  talk  20:18, 14 June 2010 (UTC)


Whether we define the catalogue as a primary source is not really the issue so much as we need to be as accurate as we can. Primary sources are to be used with care because they do not necessarily have the oversight conditions to be accurate. All the university articles I looked at use some sources that they themselves generate, and we have to assume the university wil be accurate about itself. There's really no other way to get updated information on certain aspects of the institution. As long as schools and universities are included in Misplaced Pages the articles will have to have to a combination of sources. Notability will have to be established by secondary sources but some information significant to an understanding of the institution will probably have to be based on content generated by the instituion. This essay fro WP:UINGUIDE says it well:

Special care is required for citing self-published sources, such as information about a college/university published by the college/university itself: the cited information must be authentic, not be self-serving (see Neutral point of view), and not involve claims about third parties. Self-published sources cannot comprise the majority of an article's citations. Student-published college newspapers and university-published press releases are generally reliable sources for verifying information, however, these sources cannot be used to establish encyclopedic notability. Coverage by mainstream news organizations should always be preferred over press releases by a college or university's news office and stories in the student newspaper.

However, colleges and universities do publish a wide variety of important and authoritative information that should be included in any article. The Common Data Set, a fact book/almanac, President's reports, course catalogs, and/or faculty handbooks are excellent and authoritative sources of information on the college or university and can commonly be found on the websites for the provost, registrar, or institutional research office. A university's library or archives office may have a list of published articles or books about the university's history that can be used as reliable sources as well. (olive (talk) 17:24, 14 June 2010 (UTC))

"Course catalogues... are excellent and authoritative sources of information on the college or university and can commonly be found on the websites for the provost, registrar, or institutional research office." This is exactly the case here, we have a course catalogue on line. That should be it. I don't understand the need for a secondary source in this case or all these questions about announcements. Do University commonly send out announcements when they change their course catalogues or course requirements? I'll shut up now as I feel I am beating this already dead horse well into the ground. --Luke Warmwater101 (talk) 04:25, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
Secondary sources are usually preferable to primary sources like a college handbook, but we can still use those sparingly. I've gone ahead made the change proposed above.   Will Beback  talk  06:23, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Content that needs source verification

Completed: Sources for content were either found or verified as requested

Tantric source for TM mantras - request quote

I have requested quotes from the sources that say that the TM mantras are from Tantra. I think this text was supplied by Kala Bethere some time ago. --BwB (talk) 12:20, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

A request was made in February for verification of the content in the article on mantra. I've removed one source since it doesn't as far as I can see make any references to TM. Until we can access the other sources, since a long period of time has passed since the first request, and since sourced content in the article seems contrary to this non verified sourced material, I'm parking the content here pending verification.(olive (talk) 15:33, 29 June 2010 (UTC))
  • "According to pundits of the mantra tradition and Rig Veda tradition, the sounds used in the Transcendental Meditation technique are taken from the ancient Tantric tradition."—Preceding undated comment added (date and author unknown).
Although I don't have any sources to offer, my understanding from my own studies is that some say that the Bija Mantras evolved from astrological moon signs to represent personality traits, while others simply state that they were originally cognized by rishis as personalized aspects of consciousness and have since been passed down from guru to disciple as part of the Shankara tradition. I know of other (non-popularized) types of mantra meditation descended from the Shankara tradition whose mantras come from two recent Shankaracharyas. It is extremely unlikely that the TM mantras or technique ever had anything to do with the various Tantric teachings, which are not in the main line of Advaita or Vedanta techniques. David Spector (talk) 20:40, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
Fladrif, could you please give a page number for this referenced text "The bija or seed mantras used in TM come from the Tantric, rather than Vedic tradition. In the Tantric tradition these mantras are associated with specific dieties and used as a form of worship. ? Many thanks. --BwB (talk) 19:18, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
David, as we have discussed before on these pages, the understanding or research of individual editors is WP:OR and cannot be used here. You need sources to back up your assertions. Reliable sources written by experts in the field directly contradict your understanding. Read Williamson's book and Sanderson as well, who she cites. BWB, do you know how to use the search function in Google Books? PAGE 89 specifically, but there is additional material on other pages which illuminate the statement. Fladrif (talk) 19:15, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
Thanks Flad for the page number and Google link. --BwB (talk) 10:01, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Since we have a source that describes the mantras as coming from the Tantric tradition, and we also have sources that say the mantras come from the Vedic tradition, I would think can have both citing the authors. I can't add this tonight, but possibly tomorrow unless someone gets to it before I do. (olive (talk) 01:06, 6 July 2010 (UTC))
I've added text and source on the mantras and Tantric tradition.(olive (talk) 02:51, 7 July 2010 (UTC))
Books can get things wrong. If you study Tantrism, you will discover that it is mostly about the spiritual use of the sexual impulse. This was not a topic of interest of Adi Shankara, nor of any of his long line of disciples.
Anyone actually familiar with Tantrism knows that it is not connected with the Shankarcharya meditation mantras, no matter what any books say. WP is in error to define accuracy and truth as that which is printed in published books, newspapers, or websites anyway.
I see that Fladrif is still around, acting as he usually does, like the know-it-all policeman of WP. I would have thought he would go away after the strong condemnation, out of all of the TMM article editors, of his behavior by the ArbCom. As discussed below, I resent the nastiness I perceive. I, myself, try my best to be helpful and supportive in my editing and commenting here at WP.
The WP rules and policies are almost all relevant to articles, not to talk pages. Mostly here we only need to be polite and considerate with each other, and confine our comments to the associated article. I have now broken both these rules because I find Fladrif's statements, and the implicit acceptance of Fladrif's participation by everyone else here to be incredibly irritating. I'm only human, and I can get angry and judgmental when someone interferes with the constructive atmosphere of WP in order to meet his personal needs at the expense of others. David Spector (talk) 16:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Patel

I don't see this information in the source. Since its not critical information. I'm moving the content here until we can verify source and clarify content.(olive (talk) 03:59, 27 June 2010 (UTC))

  • "Patel also says that it is derived from Patanjali's Yoga."

Q. Commas after introductory prepositional phrases?

Please see: "Use commas... to set off a year from the rest of the sentence." (olive (talk) 02:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC))
See Irony — Wikibooks is not a trustworthy source. Try this more detailed treatment of the matter. Ludwig Beethoven (talk) 04:24, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
It's standard to use a comma after the year given, to separate it from the rest of the sentence, and to set up the context of the sentence. I won't argue this further. If the grammar in the article is incorrect, either other editors will deal with it, or outside editors will, if asked.(olive (talk) 04:51, 30 June 2010 (UTC))
It's standard to write the standard contraction for "it is" with an apostrophe to stand for the missing letter "i". Ludwig Beethoven (talk) 23:30, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
I was taught in school that one always inserts a comma after a date. But many rules I was taught have since been overturned. I don't believe this is done in Received English. See http://www.englishforums.com/English/CommasAndDates/wxjj/post.htm for a discussion, and see English style books for the real answer, if any. David Spector (talk) 20:21, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
My old copy of Hodges & Whitten states: "Short introductory prepositional phrases, except when they are distinctly parenthetical expressions (such as in fact or for example), are seldom followed by commas." Hodges Harbrace College Handbook, 6thEd p 116. Most other introductory phrases are usually set off by commas. Fladrif (talk) 19:29, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
  • All the English teachers and all the journal editors I've ever had insisted on commas to set off adverbial clauses that precede or interrupt the main clause but no comma after introductory prepositional phrases (unless needed for clarity, for instance, when long).
  • Commas in dates (or locations) are a separate issue, the rule being to use a comma after the year (or State, province, country, etc.) if one is needed before. For example:
  1. On July 4, 1776, such and such happened.
  2. In Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, such and such happened.

— Ludwig Beethoven (talk) 23:44, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps we can come to some resolution on this. Ludwig originally removed the commas after the year given, but seems now to be saying they are acceptable. I'm not sure this discussion deserves much more time... I'll be happy to go with whatever is decided one way or the other.(olive (talk) 00:52, 6 July 2010 (UTC))
Not to butt in, and not sure how important it is, but I read him as saying that an intro like 'In 1776' would still not take a comma. Crystal Horshofsky (talk) 02:58, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes, a simple prep phrase takes no comma, so even one like "In July 1776 such and such happened" has no comma. Ludwig Beethoven (talk) 18:36, 7 July 2010 (UTC)
Ah, sure, what's, a, comma, between friends,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, --BwB (talk) 12:21, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Photo

I like photos in Wiki articles but I'm wondering if the photo of the abandoned ashram, now owned by the Indian Govt, has real relevance to this article or if it would be better suited on the MMY article. I'm not sure what these huts have to do with the practice or origin of TM. Usually photos illustrate a topic discussed in the article but the relevance of this photo escapes me. Any thoughts on this?-- — Keithbob • Talk • 12:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Take it out if you like - I do not mind if it goes. -- (talk) 12:19, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
It seems pretty irrelevant. I would take it out as per WP:ROC : Individual articles... should stay focused on a small number of topics for ease of reading and navigation. An article that is dense with information only tenuously connected to its subject does little to inform readers about that subject.. Pictures are nice, however, does anyone have any more relevant photos? --Luke Warmwater101 (talk) 00:23, 7 July 2010 (UTC)


"add balancing point per NPOV"

The material in bold was just added, without any discussion, with the edit summary, "add balancing point per NPOV".

  • Leading individuals and organizations associated with TM cite the existence of many studies, "more than 600 published research studies, conducted at over 200 independent research institutions in 33 countries", to support TM-related concepts. The quantity of studies have been cited to support the political programs of the Natural Law Party, the tax status of a TM institution, the use of TM to rehabilitate prisoners, the teaching of TM in schools, the issuance of bonds to finance the movement, as proof that TM is a science rather than a religion, and as a reason to practice TM itself. An article in the Jerusalem Post and a review by Canter and Ernst said that many studies appear to have been conducted by researchers at universities tied to the Maharishi, including Maharishi University of Management in Iowa and Maharishi European Research University in Switzerland, which is disputed by Orme-Johnson and by other TM researchers, who have said that studies on Maharishi Vedic Approach to Health have been conducted at over 200 different research institutions and universities in over 30 countries worldwide. According to newspaper reports and the Encyclopedia of Occultism & Parapsychology, some of the research has been "criticized for bias and a lack of scientific evidence", for "methodological flaws, vague definitions, and loose statistical controls", and for "failing to conduct double-blind experiments" and for "influencing test results with the prejudice of the tester". Research reviews in science journals say that double blinding may not be possible in meditation research. Various research reviews have identified some studies as being well-designed, rigorous, or high quality. According to a 2003 review of studies on cognitive function in Wien Klin Wochenschr and a student journal, many of the hundreds of studies have not been published in peer-reviewed journals, though a bibliography posted by Orme-Johnson lists over 300 peer-reviewed studies on TM.
  1. Pandit Usharbudh Arya (aka Swami Veda Bharati) (1981). Mantra and Meditation. Himalayan Institute of Yoga Science and Philosophy of the U.S.A. ISBN 9780893890742.
  2. Dictionaries of the Tantra Shāstra or Tantrābhidānām, Containing Prakārāntara, Mantrābhidhāna, Ekākṣarakosha, Bījanighantu, Mātrkānighantu, Prakārāntara Mātrkānighantu I and II, Prakārāntara Varṇanighantu, Bījābhidhāna, Mantrārthābhidhāna of Varada Tantra, Mudrānighaṇṭu and Varṇabījakosha, Edited by Ram Kumar Rai, Prachya Prakashan, Varanasi, 1984; pp. 3-97
  4. Cite error: The named reference Williamson was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  5. A brief introduction to Tantra Yoga.
  6. Adi Shankara.
  7. The recent Shankarcharya tradition.
  8. Cite error: The named reference Patel was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  9. "'Maharishi Invincible Towers to be set up in 192 countries'". The Hindustan Times. New Delhi. February 10, 2008.
  10. Deardorff, Julie (December 12, 2001). "Town sees meditation as way to peace". The Charleston Gazette. Charleston, W.V. p. 2.D.
  11. Hutchinson, Brian (February 22, 2003). "Wasting away in Maharishi-ville". National Post. Don Mills, Ont. p. B.1.
  12. Plagenz, George (September 4, 1996). "Is government ready for a dose of TM?". The Nevada Daily Mail. p. 3.
  13. Rowland, Darrel (July 21, 1996). "PARTY HOPES TM PUTS MEMBERS IN POSITION TO LEAD". Columbus Dispatch. Columbus, Ohio. p. 01.C.
  14. STATE OF MINNESOTA IN SUPREME COURT C4-96-1425 World Plan Executive Council-United States, et al., v. County of Ramsey, Filed March 20, 1997
  15. Walpole Study of the Transcendental Meditation Program in Maximum Security Prisoners: Cross-Sectional Differences in Development and Psychopathology. Charles N. Alexander; Kenneth G. Walton; Rachel S. Goodman in Transcendental Meditation in Criminal Rehabilitation and Crime Prevention. Charles Nathaniel Alexander, Kenneth G Walton, David Orme-Johnson Routledge, 2003 ISBN 9780789020376 p. 159
  16. Victory, Joy (May 18, 2004). "Meditation Controversy". The Journal News.
  17. "Propectus for the issue and offering of three million RAAM" (PDF). Stichting Maharishi Global Financing Research. November 14, 2006. Retrieved June 2, 2010.
  18. KAPICA, JACK (November 27, 1993). "VEDA LAND The New Incarnation of the Maharishi REJECTION BY THE VOTERS ONLY SERVES TO MAKE THE NATURAL LAW PARTY'S APPEALS MORE URGENT, ITS PLANS MORE GRANDIOSE, ITS CLAIMS MORE STRIDENT". The Globe and Mail. Toronto, Ont. p. D.3.
  19. "Q&A with John Hagelin, 8 Great Reasons to Meditate" (PDF). Center for Leadership Performance. 2009. Retrieved June 2, 2010.
  20. Hecht, Esther (January 23, 1998). "Peace of Mind". Jerusalem Post. p. 12.
  21. ^ Cite error: The named reference Wien Klin Wochenschr. was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  22. Orme-Johnson, David (June 18, 1991). "Letters to the Editor: Turn Prisons Into Think Tanks". Wall Street Journal. p. 15.
  23. Schneider RH, Walton KG, Salerno JW, Nidich SI (2006). "Cardiovascular disease prevention and health promotion with the transcendental meditation program and Maharishi consciousness-based health care". Ethnicity & Disease. 16 (3 Suppl 4): S4–15–26. PMC 2267926. PMID 16938913. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
  24. Bezalel, Mel (May 1, 2009). "Trance 101". Jerusalem Post. p. 14.
  25. Encyclopedia of Occultism & Parapsychology (5th ed.). 2001. p. 1583.
  26. Baxter, Bronte (2008). "Where Have All the Flower Children Gone? Part One". The Canadian.
  27. Ospina, Maria, et al, “Clinical Trials of Meditation Practices in Health Care: Characteristics and Quality,” The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine Volume 14, Number 10, 2008, p. 1210
  28. Orme-Johnson, David, “Commentary on the AHRQ Report on Research on Meditation Practices in Health,” The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine Volume 14, Number 10, 2008, p. 1210
  29. Rainforth, Maxwell, et al, “Stress Reduction in Patients with Elevate Blood Pressure: A Systematic Review and Analysis, Current Hypertension Reports 2007, 9, p. 522
  30. Anderson, James, et al, “Blood Pressure Response to Transcendental Meditation: A Meta-analysis,” American Journal of Hypertension, March 2008, Volume 21 Number 3, p. 311
  31. Linden W, Moseley, ?The efficacy of behavioral treatments for hypertension, Applied Psychophysiology & Biofeedback 2006, 31, pp. 51–63.
  32. Cite error: The named reference The Humanistic Psychologist 2003 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  33. Cite error: The named reference Anderson08 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
  34. Makin, Stephen (November 2003). "Yogis and yagyas: Stephen Makin went to Maharishi School and rebelled by deciding to study medicine. Here, he explains the impact that transcendental meditation has had on his life". Student BMJ (11): 426. {{cite journal}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
  35. Cite error: The named reference truthabouttm.org was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

Some points:

  1. Where does WP:NPOV mandate the inclusion of "balancing" material?
  2. The assertion that there are hundreds of studies conducted at hundreds of institutions is in the first sentence. Why are we repeating it a second time? The added material does not relate directly back to the rest of the sentence which concerns whether the bulk of the research is conducted by TM-related researchers. So it seems like a non-sequitor.
  3. Does this section need more POV from movement members? They are already cited extensively.

A significant amount of new material has been added to the research section in the past weeks without any discussion, and without any "balancing points". I suggest that the material be brought here for discussion and that other significant changes in this mature article be discussed. I see that a very minor change was reverted for lack of discussion, so more significant changes should certainly be discussed.   Will Beback  talk  00:39, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

NPOV is non-negotiable. Both points of view need to be represented. If the article says that most TM research is done by people affiliated with MUM, then the other point of view, that research has been conducted at many different institutions, should be represented. TimidGuy (talk) 10:35, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
What you added is already in the first sentence of the section. Please read it before responding again.   Will Beback  talk  11:38, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Would have to agree with Will here. The first sentence of the paragraph already states this point. Does it need to be repeated? I don't think so. --BwB (talk) 12:36, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
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