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comments on "criticism" section

Is the Web site Quackwatch (referenced in Criticism section) really a reliable source? Seems like an opinion page to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.39.82.44 (talk) 19:42, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

It looks like some nobody with a blog attempting to contradict a world traveler? A keyboard isn't a certification. --24.218.62.223 (talk) 17:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

The Price-related "historical perspective" section of controversial commentator Stephen Barrett's essay, with its almost entirely unreferenced and opinionated statements, only contains 2 refs about dental infections (for the rest of the article, 9 out of 15 references actually point to other essays by Barrett himself, many on the same Quackwatch site). Moreover, Barrett's essay only relates to the very first sentence of the "criticism" section. Nowhere does Barrett talk of "racial bias" and, for that matter, I don't recall racial bias entering into Price's work either - he was simply pleased to find heathy people, whether they were black, white, red or brown, and learn from them. Price's theory was that industrialised foods were causing problems, and so his inquiring mind led him to seek out places and cultures where such food had not penetrated the local diets. Far from having any bias as to race, Price reported what he found after seeking out people who fitted his "unsullied traditional diet" criteria from wheresoever he could find them: "sequestered villages in Switzerland, Gaelic communities in the Outer Hebrides, Eskimos and Indians of North America, Melanesian and Polynesian South Sea Islanders, African tribes, Australian Aborigines, New Zealand Maori and the Indians of South America." The "criticism" section is (apart from the low-quality essay ref) unreferenced and uninformed with regard to Price's publication Nutrition and Physical Degeneration, in claiming "facial features have more to do with genetics than diet" - obviously the writer had not contemplated the fact that Price photographed and studied genetically similar people from the same or closely related communities who had lived on traditional or industrial food, and in one case was even able to study twin brothers with different long-term dietary preferences. The "racial bias" statements appear to be personal opinion and are not supported by respectable citations, and thus may contravene WP:POV and WP:OR. The entire article of course needs more polish and citations, but have removed the "criticism" section as its only ref is poor quality and the rest is unsubstantiated and makes POV statements while ignoring Price's evidence. Bezapt (talk) 07:42, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages embraces pseudoscience. This uncritical look at Price and the Foundation proves that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.242.3.15 (talk) 03:16, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I find these sorts of statements peculiar, since this is an online encyclopedia. It doesn't embrace anything. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT 01:44, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Removed the Norwegian skull reference. A couple problems with it. It's synthesizing original research. The study is only about Norway and Price was not focused on Norway. Further, Price would probably say the Norwegians are a good example of a native people with ample access to nutrition and thus one would not expect to find crowding ie the research confirms his theory, not contradict it. I would concur to add the cite back in if it directly contradicted something Price said about Norway. Green Cardamom (talk) 04:12, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Barrett's article conveniently ignores the fact that at the time Price wrote his book there was a lot of research going on regarding the idea of a connection between nutrition and tooth decay that showed there were something there:

Agnew, M. C.; Agnew, R. G.; Tisdall, F. F. (1933) The production and prevention of dental caries. Journal of the American Dental Association, JADA 20; 193-212.

Anderson, P. G.; Williams, C. H. M.; Halderson, H.; Summerfeldt, C.; Agnew, R. (1934) Influence of vitamin D in the prevention of dental caries. Journal of the American Dental Association 21; 1349-66.

Bennett, N. G.; et al. (1931) The influence of diet on caries in children's teeth. Special Report Series - Medical Research Council, UK No. 159, 19.

Day, C. D.; Sedwick, H. J. (1934) Fat-soluble vitamins and dental caries in children. Journal of Nutrition 8; 309-28.

East, B. R. (1938) Nutrition and dental caries. American Journal of Public Health. 28; 72-6.

His Majesty's Stationery Office, London. (1936) "The influence of diet on caries in children's teeth. Report of the Committee for the Investigation of Dental Disease".

McBeath, E.C. (1938) Nutrition and diet in relation to preventive dentistry. New York Journal of Dentistry Dentistry 8; 17-21.

McBeath, E.C.; Zucker, T.F. (1938) Role of vitamin D in the control of dental caries in children. Journal of Nutrition 15; 547-64.

McBeath, F.C. (1934) Vitamin D studies, 1933-1934. American Journal of Public Health , 24 1028-30.

Mellanby, Edward (1930) The relation of Diet to Death and Disease; Some new investigations BMJ Apr 12, 1930 pg 354 ((Edward Mellanby was the discover of Vitamin D)

Mellanby, May C. Lee Pattison and C. W. Proud, (1924) "The Effect of Diet on the Development and extension of caries in the the teeth of children" BMJ Aug 1924 pg 254

Mellanby, M. (1937) The role of nutrition as a factor in resistance to dental caries. British Dental Journal, 62; 241-52.

Tisdall, F.F. (1937) The effect of nutrition on the primary teeth. Child Development 8(1), 102-4.

So contrary to Barrett's implied idea that Weston Price was some sort of maverick, his ideas were very mainstream for his time. --BruceGrubb (talk) 18:15, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

After running into "Metabolic Disturbance in Relation to the Teeth" by Charles F. Bodecker, D.D.S. from the laboratory of Histo-pathology, Columbia University School of Dental and Oral Surgery, New York Delivered November 3. 1933, which says

"The findings of the Agnews, Boyd and Drain, Eddy, Percy Howe, Hanke, Martha Jones, Marshall, McBeath, Klein and McCollum, May Mellanby, Price, and others show that dental disorders may be greatly reduced by a proper adjustment of the diet. Some of these investigators maintain that a lack of vitamin C is principally responsible for the activity of dental caries (Howe, Hanke). Weston Price regards vitamin B and mineral salts as the important elements in a caries free diet. Some believe that the lack of vitamin D is the offending factor (Mellanby). Finally, a disturbance in the cal cium-phosphorus balance (which includes vitamin D) is the factor to which most recent investigators point as being responsible for the high activity of dental caries"

I have to ask did Barrett do any degree of real research? Where is the research that show any of these ideas was wrong? Barrett certainly doesn't provide it. I am seriously questioning using him as a reliable source.--BruceGrubb (talk) 10:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

I've removed the juxtaposed information about the medical research of the time per WP:OR and WP:NPOV. --Ronz (talk) 15:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

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