Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:49, 20 October 2010

September 2010

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Misplaced Pages, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Darron Gibson, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you.

As you have been told already, the city is known as Derry on Misplaced Pages. O Fenian (talk) 10:06, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Please read WP:IMOS, which clearly states we must say Derry for the City and Londonderry for the County. BritishWatcher (talk) 11:03, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions on a single page within a 24-hour period. Additionally, users who perform several reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. When in dispute with another editor you should first try to discuss controversial changes to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Should that prove unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. If the edit warring continues, you may be blocked from editing without further notice. O Fenian (talk) 11:07, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to violate Misplaced Pages's neutral point of view policy by adding commentary and your personal analysis into articles, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. Consistently editing against consensus is not acceptable. Engage in conversation first. GedUK  11:28, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Replying to your email:

• You can reply to someone's messages simply by replying underneath it (by editing the talk page as you would an article).
• You're editing against a well-established consensus regarding Derry/Londonderry. Consensus can change, but you can't force it; you need to start discussions.
• Just because someone is born in one country doesn't mean that's their nationality. GedUK  12:07, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand why Londonderry has to be called Derry. A compromise was reached years ago and outside of Wiki by the council. The city would be called Londonderry but the council and airport would be called 'City of Derry'. It is not exactly neutral.

And also Mick McCarthy is born and bred in England and currently holds a British passport. Why is he still considered Irish?

Is it necessary to include and Irish translation for the Airport? really? there as many chinesse speakers in Northern Ireland as there are fluent Irish speakers yet there is not inclusion of a chineese translation.

I can't comment on the specfics of the arguments about Londonderry/Derry because I'm not familiar with them, and haven't been involved in the on-wiki discussions. I'm guessing that when it comes to footballers, the country they represent tends to be a good indication of their nationality; someone like Arteta who is Spanish but now qualifies for a British passport is still listed as Spanish. GedUK  13:39, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

GED, it is unfortunate that the Derry/Londonderry can not be resolved where a middle ground can be found. Would it be possible for me to set up a page for Londonderry to run in parallel with the Derry page?

Also, by general consensus, if i get enough people to agree, is it ok if I change Russia back to USSR much the same as people have changed Londonderry back to derry?Factocop (talk) 13:44, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

No, and that's a poor comparitor, Russia was only ever a consitutent part of the USSR, not an different name for the same thing. I see that you've started a debate on the Derry talk page, that's the only way forward. There's not much more I can add. GedUK  13:50, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I am just making the point that wiki is no longer a fact based tool but rather one based on General consensus. Because I am sure there are still a lot of people who refer to Russia as the USSR, just the same as there are people who refer to Londonderry as Derry.

Can you tell me how to lock a page as I have made some changes to other pages that keep on getting changed?

Calm down, the way you're acting isn't going to help you. You've been reported twice to the admins noticeboard for blocking and I reccomend you ought to apologize for your behaviour and open the debate on WP:IMOS or Derry talk page. I don't like the idea that the official name is ignored either but you have to go along with it if it's wikipedia policy unless you want to challenge it. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 16:51, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I have raised the topics in the relevant discussion forums but as yet the people who keep changing my edits have not responded but rather reported me for disagreeing. I don't think the Derry issue will be resolved as general consensus of a few over rules fact. Irish translations used un necessarily. As many people speak chineese in NI as they do Irish yet no chinesse or ulster scots translation.

Your recent edits

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to talk pages and Misplaced Pages pages that have open discussion, you must sign your posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your username or IP address and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 15:52, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I have raised topics in various discussion boards but the people who have blocked me have yet to speak to me.

Edit-warring

I have reported your edit-warring to the appropriate administrators. Lithistman (talk) 16:30, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand why you have reported me. I changed Mick McCarthy's nationality to English because he is english. Did you also report yourself because your were also involved in making edits. I noticed this about wikipedia, in that if someone has a disagreement, rather than discuss, you just report them instead. Shame really!Factocop (talk) 16:42, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

• I have reported you because you completely ignore anyone who disagrees with you. Many people have tried discussing things with you, and you just do whatever you want anyway. Lithistman (talk) 16:45, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

That is not true. You have not reached out to me to discuss. I started a thread on the discussion board. No one has presented me with any facts that Mick McCarthy still holds an Irish passport. I have noticed that wikipedia is run by clique's of people who share the same opinion and prefer to ignore fact.I am new to wiki so not sure how to report people but it seems that I will dismiss dialogue in much the same fashion as you have and just report you.Factocop (talk) 16:50, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

So now, because I disagree with your tactics, I'm part of some kind of clique? I don't really know anyone on this project, so I find that accusation really quite funny. Lithistman (talk) 16:53, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Ok I'm sorry, but you have not provided me with any facts yet regarding Mick McCarthy's nationality. Can you do so please?

It is his sporting nationality he played and managed ROI and what Roy Keane or the Wolves fans think is of no consequence. Mo ainm~Talk 17:20, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

So are you telling me that on his passport it has details of his actual nationality and then his footballing nationality? In another argument, Londonderry is called Derry, not factual but based on general consensus. And based on general consensus, Mick McCarthy is considered English. Can you prove that he still has an Irish passport?Factocop (talk) 08:10, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

City of Derry Airport - Edit warring

This airport is an airport in Ireland, and is in line with other Irish airports. An airport is a significant location. And you say you've changed the location. No you've just removed that it serves Derry. You have a complete dislike of the term Derry which is evident! It's good for you that someone with very similar views flagged this up... and blocked it in your vandalised state. It will be duly reverted.--NorthernCounties (talk) 17:48, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Im sorry but I changed the location it serves to County Londonderry and Donegal but I don't think it came up. I think to say that it serves only Derry is wrong! Why does Belfast City or Belfast International not have an Irish Translation? Why is there no Ulster Scots translation?Factocop (talk) 08:12, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Factocop (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

The changes I made were factual and necessary given that some of the comments were not in keeping with similar articles. I removed the Irish translation from the title of City of Derry Airport. It was un necessary considering that the other major airports in Northern Ireland do not have an Irish Translation. If those who had made complaints about me and sought to make it a neutral page they would of either left the page as it is following my edits or included an ulster scots translation as well, a language largely spoken by the Protestant community. I did open a discussion but given that there was no credible argument to my edits I was simply blocked.

Decline reason:

No matter how convinced you are that your view is The Correct View, edit warring to impose your view is not acceptable. JamesBWatson (talk) 12:55, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

.Factocop (talk) 11:39, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

How should I go about it in the future? I did raise a discussion on the matter but those who made the changes didn't join. Did you also block those that made the changes to my edits? Its takes 2 to tango! If any my edits are changed in the future should I just have the culprit blocked?Factocop (talk) 13:54, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Factocop (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Can you suggest how I can have people enter a discussion rather than edit my changes and then block me? Did you also block O Fenian for his edit-warring? didn't think so.

Decline reason:

This does not appear to be an unblock request; please focus on your own actions. Kuru (talk) 15:13, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

O Fenian reverted 3 times, and stopped. You reverted either 4 or 5 times, depending on whether that first edit is counted as a revert or not.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 14:26, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

SarekofVulcan, why did you not enter the discussion I setup after you reverted my change? I thought that making 3 repititive changes in the space of 24hrs was considered edit- warring? I did make a valid point but no one has been able to offer an argument. why is there not an ulster scots translation along side every irish translation. It seems only fair?Factocop (talk) 14:48, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

AGF

Please remember to assume good faith when dealing with other editors, which you did not do on Talk:Darron Gibson. Thank you.--VirtualRevolution (talk) 10:32, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I understand, but my back was against the wall. I was out numbered really. I did raise discussion but nobody responded and then I got blocked. I have no faith in the system. Factocop (talk) 10:36, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

If that is your attitude then this is not the place for you. Misplaced Pages is not a battleground--VirtualRevolution (talk) 10:42, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

It was not an attitude, just an observation. I made a 6 reverts against 3 people who made 2 reverts each. I have read on their pages that there is need for a united front. SO it is not me that has turned this into a battle. I'm sorry if I have caused you any offense but some of the edits I made seemed pretty fair and in absense of a discussion what Im I to do?Factocop (talk) 10:47, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Not edit waring is a good starting place.--VirtualRevolution (talk) 10:55, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

We'll im pretty sure I wasn't editing and reverting against myself. But i think in this case I have come up against a clique so I was always going to get blocked. Should I raise the suggestion first in the discussion channel and then if nobody comments within a day I can make an edit?Factocop (talk) 10:59, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Again you are making unfounded accusations against the motives of other editors. You got blocked because you edit warred simple fact. Know you are breaching civility guidelines with your accusations please stop or you will get blocked again. --VirtualRevolution (talk) 11:14, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

VirtualRevolution, you need to relax. I've not mentioned any names and hence have not accused anyone. Can you answer my question please? Should I raise the suggestion first in the discussion channel and then if nobody comments within a day I can make an edit?Factocop (talk) 11:19, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Tell you what just do what your doing. --VirtualRevolution (talk) 11:26, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

No need for the attitute. I just asked you a simple question. ashame really!Factocop (talk) 11:43, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Kearns

Gotta warn you, as soon as the WP:FOOTY people get hold of that article, it's toast. :-) Also, I could {{prod blp}} it right now -- better get at least one source from http://news.google.com/. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:12, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah edit a way. I've not created an article before then got stuck in the middle of something at work. I just noticed the poor boy didn't have a page.Factocop (talk) 16:18, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I'll move it back to your userspace for now: when you have time to add sourcing, you can move it back to mainspace again. Make sure it meets WP:FOOTY guidelines, though -- those folks have very strong ideas about who should and shouldn't have articles. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:45, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Please do not attack other editors. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. as here http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:City_of_Derry_Airport&diff=prev&oldid=385153445 SarekOfVulcan (talk) 11:50, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Well Sarek, if you read the comments, i was deemed politically immature. That doesnt sound like an attempt at community building? does it? I'm assuming a similar message has been left on the board of NorthernCounties? Why was he not blocked for editing the City of Derry Airport page before consensus was made? Factocop (talk) 11:56, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

You were blocked for edit warring, not for editing. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 12:02, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

To be fair I was always likely to be blocked given that my edits were being monitored by 3 other users who made reverts to my changes. But that uisn't my point. my point was that the comment you removed was equally as bad as being deemed politically immature. is it not? I raised the discussion on the city of Derry airport and posed questions that have yet to be answered. So for NC to make changes before a consensus had been reached didnt seem to be the correct process, but again i'm new to wiki so ill leave it for now.Factocop (talk) 12:09, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Respect

If you don't respect other editors enough to even respect their names, and you simply repeat your old opinions rather than seek progress towards a consensus, and moan about the principle of building that consensus, while ignoring advice; and then startapproaching others to repeat the whole whinge, then Misplaced Pages is not the place for you. Kevin McE (talk) 17:07, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Kev, I guess an adequate response would be to ignore your response and simply delete it so I suggest you change the record. You have a habit of looking over my shoulder and disagreeing with every point I have made. That is not exactly progressive. Every point I have made has been met with a series of attacks all because I value fact over consensus, especially a consensus that is generated by a clique of people who patrol particular pages. Consensus is worthly unless it is found by an unbiased jury, but as wikipedia is largely made up of contributions from users of unknown allegences or agendas I don't see how this could be seen as fair representation. So please do not preach of principles to me when you have shown no manner of decorem. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia and by definition should contain facts. If you wish to ignores facts then wikipedia is not the place for you.Please close your account and get a life.Factocop (talk) 17:47, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Please remember to remain civil while discussing with other users. Telling others to close their "account and get a life" is not considered civil. Thank you, Brambleclawx 17:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Telling people to get a life will not win any arguments/debates Factocop... Please ensure you maintain civility. Other examples like telling me to get "back in your box" will also do no favours for consensus. --NorthernCounties (talk) 18:09, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

barmbleclawx, apologies but given the attacks I have come under I would expect to see a similar warning on Kevin McE's page?Factocop (talk) 18:12, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

What attacks would they be? Can you provide some diffs were you were attacked ? Mo ainm~Talk 18:13, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Agree with the above, if you could provide some examples... Brambleclawx 18:41, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Some links to examples would really help for clarification Factocop, As we definitely wouldn't like a user being attacked after all... Cheers --NorthernCounties (talk) 18:43, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

NorthernCounties, It really is hard to find a link to discussions that have been deleted by yourself, O Fenian and Kevin McE, but I would suggest reading through your posts on everything Derry/Londonderry suggesting that I was 'politically sinister' before pointing the finger. You seem to disappear whenever a discussion doesnt go your way and then just like in this case join a discussion that has nothing to do with you and with no relevant point to make. I suggest you find that box again. And Kevin McE, you deleted our last discussion and then started a new one on my userpage. why? I distinctly remember you calling me 'politically immature'. You quote the rules and talk of respect when your handling of decorem is sadly lacking. This is a joke! but thankfully, I'm laughing.Factocop (talk) 08:48, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Nothing is deleted they an still be found in the history of the article so go look at the history and pick out the attacks made on you by other editors so that warnings can be issued if required, if none can be found it will make you accusations sound very hollow. Mo ainm~Talk 08:51, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

NC suggests that there is an issue with my maturity - http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:City_of_Derry_Airport#Irish_Translation.Factocop (talk) 09:29, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

The silence is deafening! NorthernCounties, you seem to have a warning on your userpage for attacking other wiki editors. Care to explain? Pot, Kettle and Black spring to mind.Factocop (talk) 11:34, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Factocop, you seem to be under the pretense that I've seen and avoided your arguements... that isn't the case, as if you look at my pattern of edits, I rarely edit in the morning, do some edits at lunch time, and most of my edits during the evening. Why? because I have a job. I'm not going to deny that I said you were "politically immature" at one point and received a warning for it, but I've learned how to best react now in certain situations, and I'm sure this first warning will most likely be my last. As my last edit to this page stated, I agreed that examples of attacks against you by Kevin would be helpful, as we don't want a user like yourself being treated unfairly. Furthermore, there is no need for "Pot Kettle Black" as these could only undermine any decent arguments one may have. Finally, please allow a decent period of time for any reply, without jumping to the conclusion that I'm avoiding you. Cheers, --NorthernCounties (talk) 12:04, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Well after our last discussion on 'the City of derry airport' page you disappeared for 3 days. However I am glad to hear that you have changed your ways following your warning for attacks on myself and that you have stopped the gathering of support on other users pages to have me muted. I don't see how using the words 'Pot, Kettle and Black' would undermine my argument but anyway this is a discussion between myself and Kevin McE where 3 people not involved decided to jump in.Factocop (talk) 12:28, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Eglinton

Your views would be appreciated here Eglinton, County Londonderry --84.93.157.59 (talk) 07:43, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

And how would you know this? Since your IP hasn't edited on anything Factocop has? --NorthernCounties (talk) 07:45, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Shows how little you know! --84.93.157.59 (talk) 09:37, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

It seems NorthernCounties is no stranger to controversy himself. --87.113.24.44 (talk) 11:26, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

A quarrel or two, yes. Rascism, no --NorthernCounties (talk) 11:44, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Seems according to the usual pro Republican suspects O Fenian, NorthernCounties, Asarlaí and Bjmullan your are a sockpuppet now?

How are these people ever allowed to edit? --87.113.24.44 (talk) 15:24, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed that there is a clique of editors of particular persuasion that patrol certain pages and in some cases fact can be ignored and replaced with the consensus of a few that seem to out number those of us with a sensible argument. But given that I am equally as anal as those who oppose me, I can not complain. You must remember that there is more than one way to skin a cat and in absence of a good argument, those you speak of generally seem to disappear and return without an argument and simply quote rule after rule. its annoying and incredibly patronising but I have become Immune to it now.Factocop (talk) 16:31, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

If read what i said you'd notice i didn't call anybody a bigot - i was talking about why the IMOS was put in place. I didn't mention any names or point any fingers.

And whilst i agree with the IP that there is always the same "pro-Republican" clique that stand in opposition - you have to learn to play by the rules and do things the proper way and methods. Currently the IPs actions will only add them to the list of editors seen by the wider community as a problem and nuisance and no respect given to them - and yet another pro-Union voice on Misplaced Pages that gets themselves booted out or ignored as a rant-n-raver. Mabuska 21:59, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Also if you are found out to be the same person as the IPs that are claimed to be your sockpuppets, you'll only look stupid - its not too late to find the light and play by the book. Mabuska 22:02, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I would just like to state, (As I assume I'm one of those referred too) I resent this term "pro-Republican clique". This would indicate or imply or even make way for inference, that our grouping against vandalism has some air of malice. If you check any one of our edit histories, I think you'll find that we don't go causing provocation in "Unionist" articles. Why, because we don't care and further don't intend to cause angst. Each and every editor has a number of articles that they like to nurture, improve and protect; and they will ensure that any edits to do with them are by the book and do not detract from the article. Examples of actions which may detract are the blatant puppetry and intentionally provocative edits which have been occurring over the past week. Please do not be-little the good work we carry out to improve Misplaced Pages. --NorthernCounties (talk) 22:16, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Falsification of the facts certainly isn't an improvement and brings the project into ridicule. Your obvious resentment at the term Republican clique only goes to justify it. Political activist would be closer to the mark possibly. Couldn't win the war so now resort to propaganda...hmmnnnnn--87.113.26.186 (talk) 07:25, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Seen this Abuse at City of Derry Airport? --87.113.26.186 (talk) 09:31, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Political activist? Propaganda? And war? Who do you think I am, some Misplaced Pages Terrorist? Please don't make me laugh, and honestly stop with the ever changing IP's Maiden City. Finally, if I was part of a Republican fuelled clique, I would most likely be proud of that fact. If I'm a Republican; you must be a Loyalist, no? --NorthernCounties (talk) 09:55, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Well to be honest you did choose a very republican-orientated term for Northern Ireland as your username. You could of choose a name that wasn't loaded with political symbolism, which only serves to give people impressions about you. Mabuska 10:40, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

My name originated due to around the time I set up the account, an old hotel building was in the process of regeneration in Derrys Waterloo Place. And before I realised there was so much politics involved in NI Misplaced Pages. Niavely, it was not to express deep republican undertones --NorthernCounties (talk) 12:38, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

sockpuppet claims

I've been obseving this for a while and I think I ought to add my imput. Just because O Fenian and NorthernCounties edit in similar ways it doesn't mean they are the same person. Accusing them of being one and the same is quite a serious allegation. Can you prove it by matching up the edit contributions? If you can't find any evidence that they haven't edited at the same time, then your accusation does look a bit thin on the ground as a claim. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 12:01, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Well God, I didn't think I needed evidence given that the same accusation had been made in my direction by both NorthernCounties and Asarlaí? Obviously you have not been observing this too closely or else you would of placed a similar warning on the discussion pages of my accusers.Factocop (talk) 12:10, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

You do need some proof for this Factocop, as just because you have been suspected, a suitable arguement is not to just accuse back. Please provide some proof that would think us. I'm suprised you haven't even included Asa at this rate. The C of E Thank you for the outside input, --NorthernCounties (talk) 12:29, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

NC, I have provided as much evidence as yourself and Asa have with regards to the accusations you have made towards me, so I don't see why you feel the need to comment on this. Strange really. Now back in your box like a good little sock puppet.Factocop (talk) 12:38, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Where is this proof? Maiden, even the way you still continue to edit proves your a sock. --NorthernCounties (talk) 12:40, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

NC/O Fenian/Asa or whatever your name is ... I am shocked. I can't believe that someone with in wiki community would make such an accusation. Can you prove that I am a sock? You were first to make the accusation so ill let you plead your case first. manners and all that!Factocop (talk) 12:48, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Its gone awfully quiet again. NC, this is the usual routine, in absence of an argument, you just disappear.Factocop (talk) 14:38, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to delete or edit legitimate talk page comments, as you did at User Talk:Explicit, you may be blocked for vandalism. Never under any circumstances change someone else's comment on a talk page--article or user. That is essentially you deleting the other comment sneakily to make it look like the other person didn't comment there. That is highly disruptive and not allowed. Qwyrxian (talk) 15:29, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Please do not attack other editors, as you did here: User talk:Explicit. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing Misplaced Pages. VernoWhitney (talk) 16:26, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. O Fenian (talk) 16:29, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Factocop (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

Sarek, I apologise perfusely given that no amount of editing on wikipedia can be described as terrorism. Obviously I was not aware that such a claim would be deamed a crime given that accusations of sockpuppetry and edit warring had gone unpunished. Apologise

Decline reason:

While I really appreciate the apology, that was an extremely nasty thing to say, especially in the context of Northern Ireland. 24 hours is a very lenient block for such behavior, especially given your previous record. Please use the time to ponder upon how you can work better with other people when you return, as this is a collaborative project. John (talk) 16:55, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Please stop making the false accusation that I have accused you of sockpuppetry. O Fenian (talk) 16:59, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

This user appears to have no intention of playing by the book. They have let what appears to be personal extreme ideals and beliefs supercede sources, reasonability and neutrality. Going by their edits they are of the same political direction as i am, though they are of the more hard-lined ignorant end of it whilst i am of the more moderate liberal end of it. Their actions only have served to possibly increase division and incite problems. If they acted maturely they could be an asset to Misplaced Pages but i think they are years away from reaching such a stage and a longer ban would be justified. Mabuska 00:23, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Mabuska you do yourself a disservice by comparing yourself to anything the these socks stand for. You, as I know are worth more to this project than 1000 of these socks. I look forward to your intelligent input in the future. Bjmullan (talk) 00:30, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

That may be, however my worth can only be compared to those who reciprocate likewise. Some on Misplaced Pages don't and everybody's intentions are suspect with all anyone has to go by being a persons edits. I pride myself on my edits, which anyone can see are done in the best interests of an evenly balanced point of view that ignores personal beliefs - and by god i've ignored some personal beliefs in the aims of neutrality. Mabuska 01:25, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

Indefinite

Factocop (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

This is a tad rediculous. I am not and never have been The_Maiden_City. I have been accused of sock puppetry by a clique of wiki users who disagree with my opionion. I am not aware of The_Maiden_City's history but it seems that unfounded accusations of sock puppetry can be banded around so freely. Just because 2 wiki accounts side in a particular way in a discussion does not mean they are the same person. Is it just a coincidence that NorthernCounties and O Fenian seem to back up each others argument on the same topics everytime...do I hear shouts of Sockpuppetry. No. Silence. Misplaced Pages is not a community if its use can be dictated by a few close minded users. Please can you present evidence that I am using multiple accounts or unblock me. Can I assume my accusers will be blocked for lack of evidence?

Decline reason:

(First of all, I am completely ignoring the accusations of others, which are irrelevant: see WP:NOTTHEM.) It is perfectly clear that you have abused more than one account. I have looked extensively at the evidence, and it goes way beyond "Just because 2 wiki accounts side in a particular way in a discussion". Whether or not The Maiden City is one of the accounts you have used really doesn't matter. Finally, your editing has been disruptive enough to justify the block anyway, irrespective of the sockpuppetry issue. JamesBWatson (talk) 10:12, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Look, Factocop, I tried to help you earlier. I told you how you could try and prove if those 2 are sock puppets by comparing the edit histories and timings but If you're not willing to put in the hard work and look and see if they've not edited at the same time and just want to make comments about others being socks without backing them up, It does look quite suspicious to some. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 08:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

God, you have been of no help. You gave me a warning for accusing a clique of users of sockpuppetry yet when they made the same accusations towards me you were a mute! I am very annoyed that this clique can go page to page changing anything they wish, make accusations of sockpuppetry, edit-warring and vandalism while you stand back and watch.

I did actually tell you that you can prove your sockpuppetry claims by (and I quote) "matching up the edit contributions" of those 2. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 08:39, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

God, given that I have been accused of having an account 'The_Maiden_City' which I believe is currently blocked I don't see how my accusers have made comparisons in contributions and times?It is a bit tedious to troll through dozens of discussions to find contributions and timings but where do I post my findings?Factocop (talk) 08:59, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

It has been confirmed that you have used another account here, this one, Blue is better it has nothing to do with The Maiden City. Are you denying that you are Blue is better? VirtualRevolution (talk) 09:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I had been accused on various discussions as being a reincarnate of The_Maiden_City but I am currently reading the case against me. And no I am not and never have been Blue_is_better.Factocop (talk) 09:13, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

You can post your findings at WP:Sockpuppet investigations. But It's not actually that hard to see all their contributions as they're public so anyone can see them. The 2 pages you would want to compare the edits are here and here. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 09:16, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Well CU have confirmed that you are Blue is better. My advice would be to stop with the accusations against other editors unless you can back it up with diffs. You can email the blocking admin and explain to him your situation without blaming others. Im sure they will explain the process of CU to you in full as I don't know how it works. VirtualRevolution (talk) 09:22, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

How can they if they are indef blocked? VirtualRevolution (talk) 09:23, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I suppose, as you say. Send it in an e-mail to the blocking admin so he can bring it up. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 09:26, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I can't post anything as I am blocked. Claims of my sockpuppetry have been posted on the archived thread of The_Maiden_City but I have been accused of being a sockpuppet of Blue_is_better. 4 users have spent a great deal of time to get me blocked so I am really up against it. According to my accusers Northern Ireland is no longer a country but a region.Check Giant's Causeway page if you don't believe me. This really is ridiculous.Factocop (talk) 09:27, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I can't even plead my case as it was closed before I was able to make a contribution.Factocop (talk) 09:33, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Again this is not about other editors but about CU confirming that Blue is better and yourself are one and the same, if you have done nothing wrong and follow all rules here other editors can scream and shout all they want and you cant be blocked. I cant imagine that admins here just block editors for no reason. Just email the blocking admin as I have said. VirtualRevolution (talk) 09:36, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I am not sure how the CU works either, I am not even sure who to email or how I can get their email. Can you help Virtual? I am not familiar with Blue_is_better as we have not commented on the same thread and given that he is blocked, I can't even see what they were discussing on. I'm guessing they had a difference in opinion to certain people. I am not a sockpuppet and find this very disturbing that my case can be opened and closed so quickly without my input.One of the arguments against me was that I used 'pot kettle black' and the unregistered ip used the phrase 'people in glass houses...'. 2 phrases used the world over. Another argument was that blue_is_better has commented on 2 out of the 15 pages i have commented on. ooohhhhh!The arguments against me are thread bare. A joke! Any help Vitural would be great.Factocop (talk) 09:45, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Make sure that in My Preferences that you have email enabled and on the left hand side of the admins user page you will see a link saying Email this user. VirtualRevolution (talk) 09:50, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I have sent an email to the Arb Committee so hopefully they don't get too many requests like my own. I only started my account because I was reading on wiki and wanted to edit. I am not completely sure of the rules and regulations so I am hoping this will be resolved. I am not sure how the CheckUser works but it must be broken as I have never ever used another account, ever. Levenboy has also been blocked. It seems that someone shares an opinion with someone else then they can be accused of sockpuppetry and blocked without trial. Mo Aimn, O Fenian, NorthernCounties, ~Asarlaí and Mabuska have formed a strong alliance of opinion so it is very difficult to make edits without being accused of being disruptive by either one of them.I will just have to wait and see.Factocop (talk) 10:38, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

On a "point of order": LevenBoy (talk) was not blocked for sock puppetry, and it a was short block: the block expires in two days. TFOWR 10:44, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Factocop (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

Request reason:

My edits have not been disruptive, they have been factual. On all the edits I have made, I have started discussion, unfortunately those who disagree with me have sought to have me muted rather than provide valid arguments. A spate of blocking has taken place based on 3 wiki pages - Eglinton, County Londonderry, City of Derry Airport and Giants Causeway. Please read and tell me how I have been disruptive

Decline reason:

This unblock request does not even attempt to address the reason for the unblock. In addition, both the checkuser evidence and the behavioural evidence indicate sockpuppetry. JamesBWatson (talk) 14:05, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

You dont seem to be listening to me or the admins, you were not blocked for the edits you made but for sockpuppetry, and again you have listed a group of editors as some kind of defense, what they do or say is not relevant to what you do or say you are responsible for your own actions. Stop with the unblock requests as an admin will remove your talk page access if you keep using the unblock template and email the blocking admin and he will explain the CU process and how the concliusion was reached that you and Blue is better are the same person. VirtualRevolution (talk) 10:51, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't understand this process. Who is my blocking admin?Factocop (talk) 10:53, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

You were blocked by Cailil (talk). I'd add that you were blocked on the basis of checkuser evidence, i.e. technical data showing that two accounts were operated by the same human user. TFOWR 10:58, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks TFOWR, I have emailed Cailil as the CheckUser is broken or something is very wrong. All of the other evidence is thread bare to be honest. Can I ask why I was unable to contribute to the case against me before it was closed?Factocop (talk) 11:03, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

No idea, to be honest - the case was open for nearly three days before a checkuser confirmed that you and Blue is better (talk) were the same. Plenty of time to contribute. The page wasn't protected, so I'm not sure why you didn't contribute. I doubt it would have made a difference - the decision was made on technical evidence, which is generally seen as being pretty compelling, over and above the behavioural evidence (which also seems pretty compelling). TFOWR 11:12, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I generally only edit during the week when I am at work so the case was open and closed over the weekend when I was unable to contribute. The behavioural evidence is weak I feel other than some posts that occurred around the same time by myself and another user which was purely coincidental. The CheckUser obviously is not working or is not without its faults as I have never used another account. I will fight this out to the end.Factocop (talk) 11:17, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Except you were editing at the time, and made 35 edits between your name being added to the investigation and your initial block for abusing me, before being indefinitely blocked under two hours later. In fact you were editing right before the block (and even appealed it), so your claim that you were unable to contribute is not true. O Fenian (talk) 11:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

I have notified the blocking admin of your claims the CU is broken, im sure they will comment when they see the note. VirtualRevolution (talk) 11:24, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

O Fenian, well given that I was unaware of the extent or the nature of the investigation how was I to know. I was blocked for 24hrs for insulting you which I apologised for. I was not aware of the blocking for sock puppeting until this morning when I came to work. That is true!Factocop (talk) 11:27, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Message recieved

I got your email. I have reviewed the checkuser result again and their statement is unambiguous - User:Blue is better and this account are 'confirmed' as sockpuppets. Checkuser examines the IP addresses "beneath" or "behind" usernames and cross checks them. There are levels of matches - 'possible', 'likely' and 'confirmed' (which is the highest level of match)--Cailil 12:54, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

This is not possible. I have never had or used another account. CheckUser is obviously not 100% accurate.Factocop (talk) 14:18, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

IP address has been temporarily restricted. This is probably due to persistent vandalism from the IP address you are editing from, which may be shared by many people if you are connected to the Internet via a proxy server (used by most schools and corporations and some Internet service providers) or dial-up access. Could the User:Blue_is_better be within my company and hence why the CheckUser is matching me to this user?Factocop (talk) 15:43, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Highly unlikely/impossible that someone has such strong views on the exact same articles as you... maybe you should mention it to your manager, and explain how you enjoy making lots of edits whilst charging it against the payroll? --NorthernCounties (talk) 16:10, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

NorthernCounties that comment is not helpful don't repeat that kind of behaviour.
Factocop I'll ask het Checkuser to examine this again--Cailil 16:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Bit of a cheap shot there, NC. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 16:20, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Well given that I work for a company that emloys 141'000 people around the world it not entirely impossible. Don't assume NorthernCounties, that if more than one person disagrees with you and your clique that they are the same person. And yes another cheap shot but something I have come to expect.Factocop (talk) 16:26, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

A cheap shot is when your edits have been disputed and you tell the person back in your box. How many times did you say that to me? 2~3. I believe in the Check User results, and still fine it suspect that unregistered Plusnet IP's always seem to side with your edits. But at least each and everyone gets blocked now. By me? No, by many different admins. --NorthernCounties (talk) 16:36, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Telling you to get back in your box was not a cheap shot, just a suggestion. And given that many of yours arguments were pretty feeble, can you blame me? You have a number of people supporting you in many of the same arguments so I can sympathise with anyone who has created a sock to stop the bullying but I have never been The_Maiden_City nor Blue_is_better.Factocop (talk) 16:41, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

• Stop bickering both of you or I will protect this page. You are both abusing the talk space. Neither of you will get any further warnings--Cailil 16:44, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Hi Cailil, that isnt much of a warning, considering I am completed disabled. Have you checked CheckUser again? I still dispute that I was ever Blue_is_better. Also I did set up a sock NI4Life to try and raise a sock puppet investigation but it was dismissed as I used a sock. Can you raise an investigation against NorthernCounties, O Fenian, Mabuska, Bjmullan, SarekofVulcan and Mo ainm as so far this clique has avoided investigation by having people blocked for disruption, vandalism and the usual petty crap that they complain of. Thankyou.Factocop (talk) 08:26, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Factocop, I think you need to be a bit realistic here. While a couple of them may be sock puppets (I'm not getting involved in that) I don't think that you'll find that all are the same person as who would bother maintaining 6 auto-confirmed accounts? The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 08:56, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

God, I understand this but it is very suspicious that all seem to exist purely to back each other up in discussions. The first Sockpuppet investigation I was involved in had me accused of being 8 different ip addresses none of which matched. So can you raise a sock puppet investigation against these 6 or very soon Northern Ireland will cease to exist in the realms of wikipedia. I still dispute that I was ever Blue_is_better but do confess to opening 2 new accounts since my blocking - NI4Life and Pilgrimsquest. I had no real choice given that I was blocked without being able to present an argument. I say again that I was never Blue_is_better and there is something very wrong with the CheckUser if thinks I have ever held this account. It obviously doesnt take into account that there are more internet users than IP addresses in the world and given that I work in a company of 141000 people there are always going to be dupicate ip addresses and shared servers. God, can you tell me what discussions Blue_is_better edited on as I am unaware of their activity?Factocop (talk) 09:19, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Since you have admitted to using sockpuppets to evade a block it really doesn't matter whether or not "Blue is better" is one of your accounts. JamesBWatson (talk) 09:28, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Factocop, will you please stop calling me God. That I find a bit on the blasphemous side as I am religious (as my username suggests). As for the things blue is better edited on, you can see for yourself through this link. The C of E. God Save The Queen! (talk) 09:40, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Sockpuppet??

Heres my opinion on the sockpuppetry case that appears to have been filed by you. Offensive and laughable at the same time. Mabuska 09:25, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Mabuska, the sock puppet investigations are not ment to be offensive so please don't cry....You have not exactly been helpful in any of the discussions I have been involved in. Playing Devil's advocate and sitting on the fence is of no use to anyone. I noticed you contributed to my investigation. I dont think I am anymore extreme than those who oppose me so wise up. I was accused of being The_Maiden_City and several other IP addresses. I have never been Blue_is_better and we have never commented on the same discussions so I am not sure of the link but given that I share a server with 141000 other people the checkuser is not going to be accurate! I have become frustrated that for an encyclopedia, fact doesn't carry much weight. And when fact is disputed a clique of nationalist persuasion seem to outnumber a counter argument while you do nothing. And I was unable to dispute my case given that it was closed before I could contribute.A joke! can you tell me where Blue_is_better edited?Factocop (talk) 09:47, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Playing Devil's advocate and sitting on the fence is of no use to anyone. This is not a WP:BATTLE. You are confusing editors editing according to policy with "editors not defending 'their side'". TFOWR 09:51, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

TFOWR, no I am not confused, but thanks for the concern. Are you going to help me? I have listed the names of 6 users who I think should be investigated. Are you going to do anything about that?Factocop (talk) 09:54, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

What do you want him to do, laugh?! O Fenian (talk) 09:56, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

If you are referring to the Eglinton case - that is also laughable. There is an Ireland Manual of Style in regards to placenames that got concensus. You wanted to ignore it using non-facts and ignorance as your backup. Its hardly sitting on the fence and bowing to nationalist pressure defending the agreed conventions with which we work with on Misplaced Pages. All you provided to the discussion was "ignore everyone elses evidence and persue my own personal beliefs at all costs".

It is not my job to be helpful - its my job to do my best at keeping a balance between both opinions on thorny issues. If you had a case on the Eglinton talk page i'd have backed your corner no problems. You didn't have a case and wanted to plow on through the agreed conventions in place to prevent people imposing one viewpoint over another. Mabuska 09:58, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

• The blocking admin had indicated that they intended to block with talkpage access revoked. Apparently that wasn't done. I've now reblocked to revoke talkpage access. Cailil, if you changed your mind about talkpage access between the SPI and the block, please do re-block - "I won't consider it wheel warring etc etc". Factocop, if you want to appeal your block you can email unblock-en-llists.wikimedia.org. TFOWR 10:02, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

RIRA

It appears that O Fenian is engaged in a concerted attempt to censor information relating to convicted terrorists and in particular, the self-confessed former second in command of the RIRA. O Fenian's motives are somewhat obvious since he has consistently edited articles in favour of Republican terrorists. I have no doubt that his conduct is contrary to Misplaced Pages policy on naming such terrorists given that several reliable sources have been given. --87.114.85.253 (talk) 10:50, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Please note that the above ip is a sockpuppet of blocked vandal The Maiden City. Any concerns regarding other editors contributions should only be handled according to WP policy and guideline, and not assumed allegiances. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:42, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Unblock

Your account should now be unblocked; thank you for your patience while we looked into this issue.

Note to others: After some investigation into the circumstances surrounding the block, it appears that there is another person near Factocop who is creating multiple accounts and editing in a problematic way. The checkuser wasn't incorrect per se, however private evidence indicates that this account is not run by the person who's been causing problems from this range. Please feel free to email me if you have any questions. Shell 19:49, 20 October 2010 (UTC)