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Revision as of 09:12, 22 November 2010

Intelligence Citations Bibliography for Articles Related to Human Intelligence

You may find it helpful while reading or editing articles to look at a bibliography of Intelligence Citations, posted for the use of all Wikipedians who have occasion to edit articles on human intelligence and related issues. I happen to have circulating access to a huge academic research library at a university with an active research program in these issues (and to another library that is one of the ten largest public library systems in the United States) and have been researching these issues since 1989. You are welcome to use these citations for your own research. You can help other Wikipedians by suggesting new sources through comments on that page. It will be extremely helpful for articles on human intelligence to edit them according to the Misplaced Pages standards for reliable sources for medicine-related articles, as it is important to get these issues as well verified as possible. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 03:41, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Has there been any editor discussion of the content or placement of this template anywhere?

I see there is this brand-new template Human intelligence, still being actively edited. I note that it links to and is being added to articles that are the subject of active Arbitration Committee remedies and I wonder if there has been any discussion of the content of this template before it was added (to the top, I might note) of several high-visibility articles here. I think there is sufficient instability in the article structure being linked to and sufficient continuing undue weight problems in several of the linked (or templated) articles that editor discussion of both the design and the use of this template is warranted. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 13:44, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, just go fix that article to your liking then. Woodsrock (talk) 16:26, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

On the basis of fixing problems here, I'll try to keep editing the template and also editing articles so that they may not include the template at all, or especially not at the head of the page. The articles all need a lot more work before links to them are put on a template that is so prominently displayed. (P.S. Am I to interpret your answer as saying that you didn't discuss this with any other editor before designing the template and posting it on several articles, or am I mistaken about that?) -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 19:40, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

What is the purpose of this template? What is the source for its structure?

I'm curious about what this template is supposed to do for readers of Misplaced Pages that wasn't already being done by hypertext in each article or in the several templates that were already put on articles to which this template has been added. What is the editorial purpose here? Which goal of the Misplaced Pages project is being upheld by further use of this template? -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 00:26, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I see no other template for intelligence articles. Obviously a template about intelligence articles will help reader interested in intelligence to navigate. That is why Misplaced Pages have templates for similar articles.Miradre (talk) 05:10, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

"How many roads must a template walk down, before you can call him a man...?"

The template is for human intelligence articles. It contains intelligence articles. Thanks WBB for adding an article to it, I hope others add stuff too. Woodsrock (talk) 12:20, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

History of the race and intelligence controversy is the more suitable link for this template.

Insofar as the race IQ controversy is a topic that relates to human intelligence (and that is debatable by comparison with some of the other topics now linked on the template), it is my editorial judgment that the best available article now on Misplaced Pages about that topic is History of the race and intelligence controversy rather than any of several other articles in the same category. (The articles in that category are subject to active arbitration sanctions following findings of edit-warring and POV-pushing by single-purpose accounts, with the most recent enforcement action in the case (7 October 2010) coming just before the creation of this template (16 October 2010) by a newly registered wikipedian.) In light of the Arbitration Committee findings, I think it's especially important that our response to WP:BEBOLD, a general Misplaced Pages conduct guideline, include boldness in discussing and referring to sources as articles in the scope of the case are further discussed. Perhaps new editors are still getting up to speed with the long history of edit-warring on these topics, which I hope will be resolved by editors jointly referring to sources and discussing what those sources say. Because of the much superior sourcing of History of the race and intelligence controversy, which is largely sourced to reliable sources for medicine-related articles and has had substantial editorial attention from multiple editors working on it from top to bottom, I am changing the template here to link to that article rather than to other articles in the scope of the ArbCom case. This issue, of course, can be further discussed here. Referring to sources and to the overall weight of current reliable professional literature on the subject would be helpful in achieving consensus in accord with Misplaced Pages policy. (And of course all of the articles that might be linked here, just like most of the 6,929,820 articles on Misplaced Pages, can be improved by further efforts to find good sources. Editors can look up sources and discuss what the sources say on this template talk page and on each article talk page.) -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 16:41, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Um, why are you still doing this? At least three different editors are expressing a problem with switching the links and reverting you. I don't think that being "bold" applies when you have pretty much no one to back you and yet continue edit-warring about it (that's what it looks like you're doing at this point). Nor did you respond to my point at Sociobiology about why it's important to link to the main R&I article in as many relevant places as possible- it encourages other editors to get involved and help improve it. Wanting to get rid of links to that article because you don't like it (WP:JUSTDONTLIKEIT) reeks of censorship mentality. If it's not well sourced enough for your sensibilities then please add more sources and allow other editors to do the same.

I also disagree with your characterization of the arbcom ruling. From what I've read, pov-pushing wasn't the main issue from the SPAs and it wasn't just SPAs that got sanctioned, but also experienced editors who couldn't treat others civilly. More importantly, everything you just said about the arbcom ruling applies to the history article just as much as it does to the main R&I article. If you look at the arbitration findings of fact, you'll see that there are just as many diffs of misbehavior on the history article as on the main article, so the arbitration ruling is not a reasonable excuse for replacing links to one article with links to the other.

I see you also added a link to Dysrationalia, and why you think a two-paragraph stub is relevant but not the main R&I article is truly beyond me.-SightWatcher (talk) 00:11, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

WeijiBaikeBianji, you are edit warring. An editor has expressed disagreement with you changing this link. If you still want to change the link, you should respond to his comment and try to build a consensus. You should not just ignore his comment and keep undoing reverts from two editors (Sightwatcher and Woodsrock) who clearly disagree with this change. --TrevelyanL85A2 (talk) 04:18, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Each editor who puts text into Misplaced Pages is to provide a rationale for the edit. My rationale is that the History of the race and intelligence controversy article is a well sourced article (it meticulously cites numerous reliable secondary sources) and has been edited by editors from multiple points of view from top to bottom. I have checked many sources in that article, and while it is not the article I would have written on the same subject (I have had essentially nothing to do with editing article text on that article), it is a fair treatment of an important topic related to this template that fits Misplaced Pages policies and guidelines well, and it is a good guide to the professional literature for readers of Misplaced Pages. By contrast, the article Race and intelligence is still subject to much edit-warring, still includes misrepresentations of the current views of several researchers (I'll go fix one of those today), is still skewed by former POV-pushing even after the decision of the recent ArbCom case, cites poor sources (sources too old to be current, or sources too primary to be balanced as to POV), and is generally far less organized and balanced than History of the race and intelligence controversy. Of course many editors and I would like both articles to continue to improve. Most of the 6,929,820 articles on Misplaced Pages need improvement, and one of the best ways to bring about that improvement is to refer to better sources. I appreciate your concern for consensus. It would help to form a consensus consistent with Misplaced Pages policy for you and other editors to refer to reliable sources and Misplaced Pages policies for preferring the link Race and intelligence to the link History of the race and intelligence controversy, which is your responsibility after team reverts to put the one link rather than the other on the template. The template was originally drafted and posted before there was any effort to seek consensus on any talk page of any article to which the template is attached (as will be clear from the page histories of the template and of each article in question), and the editor who created the template has engaged in only very limited discussion of the purpose or contents of the template (as will be clear from his contribution history). The relevant WikiProject (Psychology) has never included any discussion of this template, which I would have thought would be an essential first step before drafting the template at all. The template was posted boldly, and I am editing it boldly. Consensus is a wonderful thing on Misplaced Pages, and I seek it, just as I have always sought consensus with other editors when working in editorial offices, as I have in my professional career. Let's be sure to avoid pitfalls and not count votes but thoughtfully examine sources in light of Misplaced Pages core policies. I am happy to listen to any editor's detailed rationale for preferring one article rather than another as an article to be linked to from this Misplaced Pages template. As I await that discussion, I will edit the template to point to the article that in my best editorial judgment is the better article to link to for helping readers researching the broad topic. Editors who disagree are welcome to provide a detailed rationale for their preferred edits. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 16:00, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

WeijiBaikeBianji, you don't seem to understand how this works. This is the seventh time you removed the link to race and intelligence from this template. You have been reverted by four different editors. No one else seems to agree with you that the history article is more sensible in this template. You should change the link after you have obtained a consensus with the rest of us that this change makes sense, not keep undoing our reverts and then posting long-winded explanations of why you're right and everyone else is wrong. For all your complaints about the problems with the race and intelligence article, you have made no recent effort to improve the article. All you've done is remove an image, remove sources, and remove this template. It is not "bold editing" to keep undoing reverts from four different editors on the basis that there’s something wrong with the article being linked, while never providing any explanation of what needs to be fixed about it except vague statements that it’s poorly sourced.

I will be posting an RFC/U about you tonight. If you can't listen to other editors about your behavior on the articles, hopefully you can listen to them in the RFC/U.-SightWatcher (talk) 04:02, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and here I thought you would set out a clear rationale for preferring the link that you prefer. -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk, how I edit) 04:29, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

I have already explained this to you in detail here. You never tried to address the point I made there about why it’s better to link to the race and intelligence article, and eventually you just dropped out of the discussion.-SightWatcher (talk) 05:11, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Weiji, it's really simple. People (aka everyone else) don't like your suggestion because it is changing a link from a main article to subsidiary article of that main topic, and the relative quality of sourcing in this case is not felt to be a compelling reason, as sourcing can always be improved (and you could do this yourself). Your continual reverting is edit warring (slow warring is still warring). To reinforce SightWatcher's point above, being "right" in your own mind is not a license to revert at will. WP:NOTADEMOCRACY is rather more nuanced than "I think I have a really good point, so I'll ignore everyone else's opinions".VsevolodKrolikov (talk) 05:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Like the others said, the "history of the race and intelligence controversy" is a sub-page of the "race and intelligence" page - WBB your changes make little sense. Woodsrock (talk) 09:12, 22 November 2010 (UTC)