Misplaced Pages

If You're a Viper

HI, refs are fixed, should be OK now. Keep up the good work. This isn't Jack Merridew is it? SOmething about the page and name and DYK page makes it feel like Jack. Anyway I was wondering if you would be interested in writing an article on Drug abuse in jazz or something as it was a major issue and not widely known to everybody.♦ Dr. Blofeld 10:38, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I might do that at some point. If you'd like to, ping me for advice. This page was done by Jack. But I'm not Jack.Bali ultimate (talk) 12:15, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Bali, I noticed that another reviewer had brought up additional questions/issues with this nomination and hadn't notified you, so I thought I'd give you a heads-up. 28bytes (talk) 03:47, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

God vs. G-d

Hi. Regarding your edit of the Mezuzah article, I don't think the replacement of "God" with "G-d" really counts as vandalism. Many — though, please note, not all — Jews consider it inappropriate to write "God", preferring "G-d" instead (see Names of God in Judaism#In English). I'm not sure if there is a Misplaced Pages style guideline on this or not. I brought up the question in Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Judaism#Writing "G-d" in Mezuzah article, and so far there has been one response saying it's unnecessary, but hopefully there will be more comments and a general consensus (one way or the other) will develop that can be turned into a guideline. Richwales (talk · contribs) 21:18, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

It's vandalism. Hardline orthodox jews don't get to determine what neutral word is appropriate for God, nor do adherents of any other faith. That particular construction is frankly childish, always laugh at it when i see it (Hashem is better).Bali ultimate (talk) 21:20, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

Your problem

What is it? I've done nothing to deserve this incivility from you, so how about you stop.— Dædαlus 05:17, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I haven't directed anything at you. Irony is dead, however, and i should remember that.Bali ultimate (talk) 05:24, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

That's what it looked like, and it came off as mocking sarcasm.— Dædαlus 05:26, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry your feathers are ruffled. But your own thin skin is something I can't help you with, I'm afraid. I wasn't "talking" to you at all.Bali ultimate (talk) 05:35, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Is there a reason you just carry on insulting me?— Dædαlus 05:53, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm not insulting you. I've told you twice (and this is the third time) that i wasn't even addressing you. What is it exactly you want? I'm sorry I put my butterknife down and you have repeatedly tried to stab yourself with it? Ok. I apologize for that cutlery malfunction. More seriously: You have demonstrated a thin skin here. That's not an insult. It's an observation, and a mild suggestion that you wander away and think about why you felt insulted in the first place (hint: when comments are made in a public place, they frequently won't be about you, as was manifestly the case in this instance). From memory i think i'm moderately well-disposed to you. The whole point of my comments there was a (vain, useless) attempt to get the chattel to focus on the incompetents whose pockets they help to line (not that I'm an innocent). Bali ultimate (talk) 06:01, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I have to disagree, I found your tone both on AN, and here, rather rude and insulting. If you have issues with the fundraiser, you're welcome to address them through the appropriate channels (for instance, talking to the fundraising staff, or using the fundraising pages) but taking it out on another editor on an only loosely (at best) related topic is just plain incivility. Just saying.⇒SWATJester 22:28, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

More specifically, suggesting that other editors are "chattel", that the office staff are "incompetents", and suggesting that other users self-flagellating instead of assuming good faith, all of these things are basically incivility, in case you needed an "observation". ⇒SWATJester 22:52, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Mr. Dan Rosenthal of the Wikimedia foundation fundraising arm, I promise a more thorough discussion with you when i finish work (in about an hour). For now, I think the WMF is manifestly incompetent, in both shaping an environment to allow for better content and (more importantly) in providing leadership on a host of moral issues that you all generally turn your eyes away from. A perusal of the budget indicates a lot of featherbedding. As to the "self-flagellating" bit in your comment above, i suggest you either read what i wrote multiple times or more slowly.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:57, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Ok Mr. Rosenthal. First off, am i correct in assuming that you're a paid functionary of the wikimedia foundation? The legit sock page says that the account you've used here is for all "volunteer" activities, implying that your activities via the other account are paid. Correct me if this assumption is wrong. Running on it now. Since you've sought my feedback, I'll speak to your own incompetence. That fundraising banner with Mr. Wales mug on it describing him misleadingly as the "founder" (he's the cofounder, don't you know) is greeting everyone that comes to one of the most visited sites on the web, thanks to the google algorithm. If memory serves, it's north of 50 million visitors a day. Wales, who makes $50,000 to $75,000 per speaking appearance according to an agency that says it represents him , has just been given incredibly valuable advertising for the "Jimbo Wales brand" for free. You should have been charging him for that kind of advertising, and a fair amount. It also serves to burnish his false image as some kind of architect and prime mover in this phenomenon, when he's in fact not particularly competent in writing, evaluating, or safe-guarding content, which does a disservice to the public and is contrary (however ironically) to the stated purpose of the website. Finally, I understand what motivates you to defend your employer; unfortunately, this understanding leaves me less inclined to respect what you have to say. Thanks for dropping by.Bali ultimate (talk) 01:37, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

As you are well aware, Jimmy's speaking arrangements are his own deal; the foundation has nothing to do with them. However, I'd like to point out that the banners we run with Jimmy's face on them bring in significantly more donations than the others -- in fact, Jimmy's face has made the foundation more money then any amount he could possibly have benefited through publicity. As to my personal "incompetence", I suggest you strongly consider reviewing our policies on no personal attacks and civility if you wish to continue editing further. Thanks. ⇒SWATJester 06:55, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Bali, Swatjester isn't one of TheBadGuys(tm). I'd suggest you tone it down a bit with the rhetoric going on here. I'm not a huge fan of the foundation nor of their fundraising tactics, but lashing out at everyone that disagrees with you (calling them names and making insinuations about their character) will not aid your case and ultimately is a reflection upon your own character. Let's just take a breather and reflect about how to move forward. Killiondude (talk) 07:09, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

One of their paid factotums seeks me out to complain that i publically criticized Wales and their deceptive and innapropriate fund raising tactics (and Mr. Rosenthal failed to identify himself as such -- just another wikipedia volunteer with a bunch of civlity whinging) he will get my full and frank opinion. If he or you don't like my rhetoric on my talk page (in an exchange that Rosenthal instigated and that you're now fueling) you can shove off (and you can stuff your discussion about my character). Bye.Bali ultimate (talk) 12:09, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

John Ging

Hi Bali. If you don't like the language in the article than fix it. I'm doing the best I can and I'm still working on the article. You don't just delete a substantial part of an article just because the writing style is not good enough. I'll try to improve the language as much as I can, and I'm still writing the article, so you can help or be patient and wail untill I'm done writing. Nik Sage (talk) 13:40, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Well, if you have trouble writing clear prose on the first pass, try working on it offline. As it was, i did fix it. The good news is your writing on this page is reasonable. Get the language right and i'll take a look at the content later.Bali ultimate (talk) 15:02, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Bali. I've wrote a long and detailed respone to your post in Ging's discussion page. Nik Sage (talk) 01:21, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi Bali. You're probably on a small break, but I'm waiting your reply in John Ging's discussion page (no hurry). Nik Sage (talk) 16:23, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

confusion?

hi. i think you're confused with another editor please bear in mind we are dealing with a living person. thanks, --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 04:11, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

What editor do you think i'm confused with? User:Malcolm Schosha is a banned editor and multiple sockpuppet user. Here's his first ban discussion . I find it fascinating that the account of a banned user who abused multiple editors in good standing here for years has been "vanished" especially since he's a serial sockpuppeteers. Thank's for bringning this further to my attention, i intend to pursue i to now.Bali ultimate (talk) 11:38, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I was unaware of that discussion. I'm not terribly familiar with sockpuppetry rules, but note that he was never banned and one his "socks" Kwok2 was clearly not used to avoid detection. He is clearly not a "serial" sockpuppet, if one at all. No offense intended, but your zeal in ensuring that the user page of his RL name be besmirched appears vindictive.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 17:06, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Serially used socks to stalk me and others, seeking to tag us as anti-semites and so forth because he wasn't able to skew content to suit his political agenda anymore. Has socked through a variety of IPs. If the name had been dissapeared at the time I was targeted by that vile human being, i wouldn't have been able to uncover his past and have it dealt with. I'm seeking to protect others from the vicious attacks that unbalanced edit warrior has visited on me by keeping the info out there. That's not vindictive. It's protecting the innocent. What's your interest in all this then, if you didn't do any research into his past? Getting emails?I wonder why... you're not an ethno-nationalist POV pusher too? (Just a shot in the dark there).Bali ultimate (talk) 10:53, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I am not aware of any "targeted harrassment" not do i see any evidence of it. but considering how you throw out baseless accusations against me, i know who to believe. I don't want to discuss this with you any longer. its quite clear that you are making this personal and are not dealing with it objectively at all. adios.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 15:07, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Making what personal? You've come to my talk page for no apparent reason (continue to refuse to explain why) to defend a banned editor who visited upon me and other vile, vile attacks. I love the accusation at others that they're not objective at all when you don't get your way. Very cute. Don't let the ass hit you on the way out the door sweetheart.Bali ultimate (talk) 15:10, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

John Ging take two

Hi Bali, please give feedback about the first part I've wrote about the assassination attempts so I can move to the second part. You could do it here or at my talk page if you prefer. Nik Sage (talk) 23:39, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Better. Language still problematic. But much better.Bali ultimate (talk) 13:59, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Colonel Warden RFC

Hi Bali Ultimate, re your comment about Colonel Warden considering the deletion of articles to be the equivalent of "something akin to murder", I've just been through a few screens of his deleted contributions and seen examples where far from trying to save everything he does actually tag some articles for deletion. Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Crab collars is an example where he took an article to AFD. I appreciate that you feel strongly about this editor, but can I suggest you have a second look and rephrase your comments in a way that more reflects this editor's edits? ϢereSpielChequers 13:48, 7 December 2010 (UTC) sure.Bali ultimate (talk) 13:59, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Sorry. Not going to grab the tar-baby. I've seen him argue for keep on hoaxes almost as blatant. I'm glad to see an overwhelmingly blatant hoax he can recognize, but hardly the point.Bali ultimate (talk) 14:02, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure we've all been taken in by hoaxes occasionally. But the point of an RFC is to convince the community that there is a problem, I took your accusations sufficiently seriously to trawl through his contributions until I'd found examples where he had tagged articles for deletion via speedy, prod and AFD. If you want to convince the Colonel that he needs to change behaviour or the community that some sort of sanction is appropriate, then please stick to facts and support your criticism of him with diffs. I appreciate that hyperbole doesn't always signify a weak case - but at the moment I'm of the view that if there was a real problem then editors would not feel the need to exaggerate. ϢereSpielChequers 14:17, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't view my comments as hyperbolic, and if you don't see what i'm seeing by trawling through his contributions, i can't help you. It's quite clear to me that warden is not going to be convinced of anything. He'll either take on board what the RFC says and change or, like A Nobody, he won't and he'll eventually be gone. I've no interest in discussing this further with you here. Life is short, and as i made very clear, i'm not going to get bogged down with the hair-splitting and misdirection that are all too common when addressing these kinds of problems. The arguments he uses are fundamentally dishonest, he uses tactics to confound process and open logical discussion, and he fills articles with trivia, poor sources and interpretations of sources that no reasonable reader (or at least one with a research background) would ever make. You don't appear to aggree with me. So be it. The facts are plain as day to me and many others.Bali ultimate (talk) 14:22, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

My comment was about your accusing him of "considering the deletion of articles to be the equivalent of murder". Please don't assume what my so far unstated views are on "trivia, poor sources and interpretations of sources that no reasonable reader (or at least one with a research background) would ever make". If that was your concern about him or any other editor, and you or someone else filed a diff supported case on those grounds, then if I found it convincing I might well endorse it. ϢereSpielChequers 14:32, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Full quote from me (rather than your misquote) which i stand by in its entirety. I get it that you don't agree. Please don't belabor it further. Col. Warden has an extreme ideology that appears to view deleting articles (and poorly sourced content within articles) as something akin to murder. Bye. Bali ultimate (talk) 14:50, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Probably moot at this point but Bali's right and WSC's off the mark giving him a hard time. IMHO. ++Lar: t/c 18:17, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Recreating deleted page

I noticed you recreated User:Malcolm Schosha. This page was deleted because the account was renamed; there is no account under that name. Please use the Kwork or Kwork2 accounts if you have any further sockpuppet concerns. Shell 17:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I discovered him on old AN/I archives. Now, if someone else does, they will come to a complete dead end. For instance, if you go to the ban discussion on Malcolm and click "contributions" you get a blank. . This has the effect of covering his tracks, and given his frequent socking through IPs, that enables a banned editor. How do you propose to deal with this? I'll probably bring the propriety of all this at AN/I shortly, but am interested to hear your response first.Bali ultimate (talk) 18:04, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

What if we created a redirect to the other account; that's pretty typical with renames and would let someone check up on things if they need to. Is there any current socking? Shell 19:15, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Not that i've noticed in about two months, but he's probably about. The problems arise when he starts harrassing people. A redirect i could live with.Bali ultimate (talk) 19:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

user Benjiboi blocked

Hi Bali, User:Benjiboi Blocked for massive socking, I have a few more I am watching, the whole field IMO is a likely to be just a couple of activists with multiple accounts along with paid promo editors, thanks for your contributions. Off2riorob (talk) 22:51, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes it was obvious for years. Maybe there will be an interegnum for some cleanup. Best.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:53, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

If you have any spidey sense tingles about POV pushers and promo contributors, let me know, I despise them and love to investigate their contributions. Off2riorob (talk) 23:07, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I took a big step back from all that a while ago, and am engaged in fairly narrow ways at the moment, so no. But if i come across anything, will let you know.Bali ultimate (talk) 23:24, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

AfD

Please see: Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Evolutionism (2nd nomination), since you contributed to the article. Steve Dufour (talk) 05:41, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

User:Malcolm Schosha

Spot on, even if it's sad to say. Gwen Gale (talk) 16:30, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Malcolm Schosha

Please do not recreate the redirect. The facts are obvious enough to those who need to know, and continuing to make the link makes it harder for him to walk away and leave us alone, which is in the end what we want. Guy (Help!) 19:45, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't have found him when he was harrasing me if this "courtesy obfuscation" had been done then. If you've deleted again, i'll bring it up for broader input.Bali ultimate (talk) 19:54, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree, I don't think deleting the RD again was very helpful, there is meaningful background to this of which you may not be aware, JzG. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:59, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

I've brought it up at ani, here: .Bali ultimate (talk) 20:11, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Re: Removing ref tags

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to violate anything.Kitty53 (talk) 22:12, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Benji

So what is going to happen with these Benji socks and that ip range? - Schrandit (talk) 17:40, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

He uses them fairly disposably, so "blocking" the old socks is neither here nor there. The IP range would be nice to block, but i don't know enough about the technicalities. Takes out a few houses/apartment buildings in the Castro? Go ahead and do it (odds of another wikipedia editor sllim). Take out half of San Francisco? Not feasible. In practice, i doubt little more will be done (unless you can convince a friendly check user to keep on eye on the IP range).Bali ultimate (talk) 17:48, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

I have noticed a few other likely socks and someone found one with wikistalk, who should I talk to about running another CU? Geographically, how big is the suspected range (71.139.0.000-71.139.40.000) we're looking at? - Schrandit (talk) 13:38, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

IP ranges and stuff like that not my expertise. All I can tell is that it's all mostly in the Bay Area, but i have no idea how big the ranges are.Bali ultimate (talk) 13:40, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I see you tinkering ...

I'm off to bed now, but I think what you're looking for is {{NOINDEX}}. pablo 23:22, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

hello

Hi, what are you trying to do? {{NOINDEX}} ? Off2riorob (talk) 23:23, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

self horn toot

• my first edit.

nb: I added __NOINDEX__ to your user page. Cheers, Jack Merridew 23:33, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Ah, so that's how it's done. Don't you have a plane to catch? Merry Christmas and all that if we don't talk again til after. Me? Spending it with mom, then off to see my girlfriend in a very pretty corner of the world. Love going there, but no work. Bali ultimate (talk) 23:37, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Do you want some assistance in creating an archive and a bot? This page is unduly large. Off2riorob (talk) 00:12, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

If the size is annoying, have at it. Anything you do would be fine. Bali ultimate (talk) 00:18, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

You should discuss this; there are several options. Teh auto-archive bot, which I don't like. The *move* your talk to an archive page technique, or the manual archive creation approach, which is traditional. Cheers, Jack Merridew 00:41, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

I have packing and such prep todo; plane's tomorrow. I'll be near your pretty corner ;) The two big cities, though. I'm gonna be sending out some notes; we'll talk. Cheers, Jack Merridew 00:41, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes, you need to first work out what you want to do with it. Another option I notice is - clear historic - and delete it, an option some users do monthly, SlimV is one. We are not obliged to archive but I read it is recommended. I also don't know if it is possible to add a bot when you have the fancy edging on your page. I did add one but it didn't appear...have a think what you want to do..no hurry - no worry. Off2riorob (talk) 00:52, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

• - so , what is your choice of archive weapon? Off2riorob (talk) 19:15, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
  • I've kept it simple. Thanks for the help.Bali ultimate (talk) 19:21, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
    • Much better, many thanks. Off2riorob (talk) 19:24, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Counterpunch

Right so unless you have anything to say or ask any one of your ideologically aligned Misplaced Pages friends to rebuts the arguments I've made on the Counterpunch talk page, I'm going to put the criticisms back on. I won't have your feigned absence filibuster my attempts to get the (warranted) criticisms against that left-wing rag of a magazine put on its Misplaced Pages page. Fellytone (talk) 22:18, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

I've brought this up at AN/I and left a link to the discussion at your talk page.Bali ultimate (talk) 20:15, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Tactical advice for discussion

In any discussion, if you see traction in a section, don't add a new one below it. Reply to something above if you must, but not below. People read discussions from the bottom, not the top.—Kww(talk) 16:35, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Yes i struck that post. It's sad that people don't want to adress the strongest evidence. It's like they don't see it.Bali ultimate (talk) 16:53, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

You should consider collapsing it.—Kww(talk) 16:59, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

If you think that's kosher, go ahead. But as other people responded to me, doesn't feel right for me to unilaterally shut it down.Bali ultimate (talk) 17:03, 20 December 2010 (UTC)

Are you happy now?

What would have happened, if a merge would have been done after DYK? Misplaced Pages readers would have gotten an extra information. What a horror! D= --Mbz1 (talk) 13:43, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

I hope you're learning about content forks and coatracks.Bali ultimate (talk) 13:55, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Even gatoclass never claimed anything about coatracks, but you right I did learn something, like how unpleasant some users, who hardly wrote a few articles themselves could be. Please have a nice day.--Mbz1 (talk) 13:59, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Still plagiarizing? I get it that you're a little bauble collector with little regard for organizing information appropriately. So it goes.Bali ultimate (talk) 14:02, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Rant, rant, rant. The users as you are only good to drive content contributes away. and yes, so it goes.--Mbz1 (talk) 15:27, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

An incident with which you may have been involved ...

... I don't know the right boilerplate, but you are mentioned here. betsythedevine (talk) 18:06, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Mentoring question

Recalling your experience at WP:Requests for comment/Teeninvestor ..., please examine a short thread at Talk:List of tributaries of Imperial China#Japan. Can you suggest alternate ways I might have been more effective in this very limited dispute? In this small thread, can you suggest lessons learned the hard way which I could have drawn from this editing experience? --Tenmei (talk) 22:18, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't really have any good advice here Tenmei. Maybe you could be more concise, though i'm not sure it would make a difference, but you're being more than fair and making factual, policy based points. The problem is that wikipedia is very poor at dealing with nationalist/jingoist editors. I don't know much about the topic at hand, but certainly ancient and primary chinese sources are deprecated. In general, as you know, Imperial China told itself it ruled vast swathes of world that it in fact had only nominal control of, if that. It's an issue that requires nuance and complexity, not binary categorization. So what should you do differently? If you're at a standoff, craft an RFC of no more than 2 paragraphs asking for broader editorial input on the use of primary sources (appropriate or not?) and perhaps some of the other sources that don't, if i understand your argument, support the edits being made by the other fellow. The advantages here is that it deporsonalizes the dispute, and usually draws in fresh eyes. Sorry i don't have any better thoughts. Best.Bali ultimate (talk) 22:48, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Follow-up questions like this have no easy answers.

This dispute is very low-key, undramatic. It remains an open-ended question -- even when the focus is narrowed to Cite does not verify asserted "facts". The content involves only two cardinal numbers and a single descriptive term; but Historiographer's editing is characteristic, tactical and familiar. Optimistically, this thread might be re-framed as a fulcrum for better understanding.

IMO, the core issue which justified the investment of time and thought at WP:Requests for comment/Teeninvestor was the prospect of metastasis. Although Teeninvestor has withdrawn from our project, the patterns of strategic editing are emblematic. IMO, it is constructive to search actively for options which may only become apparent after some time has passed. --Tenmei (talk) 23:56, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

I understand and appreciate your hope. But I don't expect a solution/governance answer to organically produce itself. What's needed is editorial boards of subject experts (which the true believers would respond to with dolchstoss levels of betrayal and outrage so forget it) that intervene, directly, in content. Until that unlikely day have to just keep muddling through (or, like me, avoid entirely the subject areas in which you have expertise).Bali ultimate (talk) 15:02, 24 December 2010 (UTC)

Packer

Thanks for the work on LoS. Re Packer, I had looked into this, and later sources seemed to contradict those in 2008 speculating that he had dropped out. All of these are from 2009: . If you look at the article that said he had dropped out, it does not actually quote him, but unnamed friends of his. Looking at it all, I got the feeling that he took a lot of courses for a while when he was in crisis, then stopped that once he felt better, but hasn't actually broken with the Church. There is no obligation on Scientologists to take courses all the time; it's up to the individual (and the status of their bank account). --JN466 15:18, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I think this is getting a little out of hand

first I want to apologize, I did not intend to tag you with the "attack page" template, I wanted to warn you about "personal attacks", obviously that was not what I tagged you with and I know how it feels to get tagged with something you don't deserve. So I am sorry I tagged you with that. Secondly I think it is getting a little heated and we should actually talk about it. We are accomplishing nothing going back and forth the way we are. I understand you have strong feelings about what should be included in the List of deaths associated with Scientology, but I do feel strongly that we need to include a background section that demonstrates that reliable sources have been using this theme across time. Those sources are contained in the section we have, but you are not satisfied that it should be included. What is a good compromise? Since they are reliable sources, would we be able to include those sources but tone down the content somehow which would satisfy your concerns?Coffeepusher (talk) 17:33, 26 December 2010 (UTC)

An/I

A fortnight ago, you reported me to to the Administrator Noticeboard/Incident. In reciprocation of your generosity, I've reported you here . Fellytone (talk) 21:43, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

I've closed that report as obvious tit-for-tat shenanigans. However, I have redacted the insults that were made on that talk page - even generally insulting those who accuse CounterPunch and Cockburn of antisemitism is an attack on living people, and should be avoided, and it really isn't necessary. As you know, stating your opinion of those writers won't help us improve the article. </lecture> Fences&Windows 22:53, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

RFC question

You suggested creating an RFC regarding (I think) several recent POV-pushing DYK articles. I was provoked into researching that theme and writing about it on my talk page. I am not sure how RFCs are created or whether an RFC/U is more appropriate. Your advice would be welcome. betsythedevine (talk) 01:39, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

RFC on the user would be easiest. There is a broader cultural problem of the tolerance of creations of attack pieces and forks created to emphasize the "rightness" of a particular position that is currently rampant in that arena (and is fuelled by the host of teenagers and apple polishers involved with DYK), but i have no good advice on how to shift the broader culture. Any effort that i can imagine would be an unfocused mess. So probably best to start with this user -- which (who knows) may yield some broader ideas and awareness.Bali ultimate (talk) 05:39, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I think I will just let it rest for a bit--it's possible the Mbz will take the hint and create her next articles on some of the better themes of her earlier work. betsythedevine (talk) 00:22, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

As warranted as an RFC is at this point, it will go absolutely no where as long as her vanguard of cohorts aren't dealt with as well. The second the RFC/U is opened, User:brewcrewer, User:Epeefleche, User:Jalapenos do exist, User:ברוקולי, and all her SPA-wielding defenders are going to pile in and deem it a railroading attempt. It already happened when she was indefed. Bulldog123 06:50, 11 January 2011 (UTC)