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This is Jimbo Wales's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

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Japanese business income 2

The answer contradicts the fact. As for WCJ2009, Wikimedia Foundation does a patent of the holding right to them.Komura of Wikimedia Foundation permitted this.In the event of wikipedia 10 in kyoto, Wikimedia Foundation is written that the project composition was done as "Sponsors".Wikimedia Foundation offered T-shirt and the pin batch.I sent your video visit.Director of foundation Ting Chen participated over a video telephone using Skype.

FormerIP: A foundation provides it with the business trip travel expenses of Jay Walsh.Based on a Japanese price level, I think that I am non-reasonable.Severe use is not decided though it is written that the residuary estate belongs to the group, and will be used it for those cost in the future. The group may donate to the religious organization and the political party for instance, and you are supposed buy an individual personal computer.The meeting place is IZAKAYA called The WATAMI. IZAKAYA is a bar where plonk and meal are sold.Drinking is possible in a fixed amount system if order NOMIHODAI.In this store, the system is　.Because this shop is a very cheap shop, it is low fare.--山吹色の御菓子 (talk) 12:57, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I understand your concern, but I think you are wrong. First, to repeat, the participation of some members of staff in an event does not mean that the event is organized by the Wikimedia Foundation. I made a video which was made available freely, and it was viewed by dozens or possibly hundreds of different local events large and small. However, none of that is really relevant because I agree that if local events are being organized by community members, and there is some money involved in the organization, I want people to be thoughtful and responsible about it.

It occurs to me, then, that you are asking the wrong people and in the wrong place. This is English Misplaced Pages, and it seems obvious to me that no one here knows any more about this than I do.

Have you asked politely to the people who actually organized the meeting? How much money was collected, how much was spent, and what is to be done with the surplus?

In my very long experience, I would suggest that everything is usually completely fine in situations like this. The party was organized, everyone had a good time, some small amount of money was left over, someone has the money, and it will be used for some future event. I really doubt if there is a problem here.

If you come to them as you have come to me, I don't blame them for not answering. You accused me of pocketing the money personally for an event I had no knowledge about, an outrageous accusation. If you approach people in that manner, they are likely to simply ignore you for being rude.

Here is another idea: why don't you find some member of the Japanese Misplaced Pages community who speaks very good English, and ask them to help you communicate with me. Your posts here read like they were made with the help of Google translate. That can be perfectly fine, but it does mean that some of your sentences don't always make sense. For example, when you write "I think that I am non-reasonable" you almost certainly meant to say the opposite: "I think that I am reasonable". I fear that other bits of meaning may be getting lost in translation.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:10, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

It is correct that you think.However, the information addressee of the event has only here.I paid propriety four months ago, and inquired of the group.However, there was no response at all.It was written the Wikimedia　foundation official meeting in the document that they had made.Permission by the foundation was written giving, the logo was used, and it was confusing.You take responsibility for having consented tacitly to it.

You gave a patent. To the Japanese group. The abandonment of the authority, a domain transfer, transfer of the management."English speaker" that you say are their all groups. In Japanese Misplaced Pages, nobody helps.

You have the responsibility of proving the accountability and the fact. In Japan when you granted the group a management right transfer and official permission. --山吹色の御菓子 (talk) 19:33, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

I am going to ask someone with dual linguistic skills to assist, as there seem to be nuances of meaning here that are not properly understood on both sides. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:52, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Check here, http://en.wikipedia.org/Category:User_ja . It shouldn't be too hard to find somebody to translate. 山吹色の御菓子, if you can try posting your concern here in Japanese, I'm sure someone will come along and translate it for you. Zaereth (talk) 21:22, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

What would be nice for this is a script or tool that can identify users who are in both of two given categories, and also have edited within the last week (or similar). Anyway I've dropped an email to one such person. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Did someone call for a translator? 通訳者が必要のようですね。Just so everyone knows, I was contacted by Demiurge1000 and do not yet have a grasp of the details of the argument. 最初に断っておきますが、今日Demiurge1000さんに頼まれてまだ議論の内容を把握していません。I will just try to convey what 山吹色の御菓子 wants to say. I don't have a lot of time to put into this. この件にかけられる時間が限られているので、とりあえず山吹色の御菓子さんの言い分を皆さんに伝えておきたいと思います。 So, maybe 山吹色の御菓子 can tell me in Japanese what s/he wants to say on my own talk page. まずは山吹色の御菓子さんに日本語でご自分の言い分を僕のTalkページにて教えていただければと思います。よろしくお願いします。Matt Thorn (talk) 14:57, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Whoa. I just did some digging. This person, 山吹色の御菓子, has apparently been banned from contributing to the Japanese version of Misplaced Pages. I don't know why yet, but it seems s/he is basically venting here because the folks on the Japanese side have had enough of him/her. In short, and I apologize for being blunt, it would seem the person may be a kook. Sorry, I just call them as I see them.Matt Thorn (talk) 16:02, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Well, his rolling up here and accusing me of pocketing the money he's concerned about was not a good sign, but I say assume good faith. He does raise a valid question: if someone is having events in the name of the Foundation and turning a profit, then who is it and where is the money going? My point is: it's perfectly valid to ask that question; it is not valid to assume the worst and issue random accusations.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 18:42, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I have scanned theJapanese material (There's a lot of it) that 山吹色の御菓子 refers to. It's a lot of good-faith, hair-splitting discussion that you see on Misplaced Pages anywhere. I see no sign of the sort of coup 山吹色の御菓子 describes. I haven't read it all, but I've read enough to conclude that 山吹色の御菓子 threw around a lot of unsubstantiated accusations that are no more coherent in Japanese than in English, and eventually made such a nuisance of himself that he was banned. If there was a genuine faction of ja.wikipedia editors who felt something sketchy was going on, you would be hearing from more than 山吹色の御菓子. He says there was plenty of dissent. There was plenty of discussion, and as far as I can tell, consensus was reached, and 山吹色の御菓子 didn't like it. He is acting entirely on his own. He has blown up the tab from a meeting at a pub to the scale of a JFK assassination conspiracy. Nothing to see here, folks.Matt Thorn (talk) 02:22, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Matt. You do know, of course, that you've accidentally volunteered to help me whenever something interesting and complex is going on in Japanese Misplaced Pages. :p--Jimbo Wales (talk) 02:59, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Oops. Matt Thorn (talk) 03:26, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry, Matt. Jimmy will be able to pay you using cash from the Japanese conferences, which is sitting in a secret Hamas-linked Swiss bank account. --FormerIP (talk) 03:43, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Haha. FormerIP, I think that's supposed to be a secret. It is a secret, that's what I said...--FormerIP (talk) 04:06, 30 January 2011 (UTC) UPDATE: I read the discussion on the proposal to block 山吹色の御菓子 indefinitely. Contributors were nearly unanimous in support of the indefinite block. Even those opposed agree that 山吹色の御菓子 is a serious pest, but felt he should be given a limited ban of several months. No one took his side or defended him. The proposal was introduced on April 19, 2010, and approved on July 7, 2010.Matt Thorn (talk) 03:54, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Matt Thorn. Please do not describe my impression but translate the fact. It is necessary to translate taking the responsibility as a specialist.In Japanese Misplaced Pages,Translate paging web all.the translation like Matt Thorn that is irresponsible, and fabricated is done, and the intention of Jimbo is not transmitted either. --山吹色の御菓子 (talk) 02:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

A charitable idea

I saw this on CNN a couple days ago, and I was thinking...

Why not hire people who are homeless, disabled or economically disadvantaged to do automated tasks on Misplaced Pages that are currently done by robots? It could also be a way of getting more people to donate to Misplaced Pages if people could sponsor a real human being and know that they're doing more than just helping to build an online encyclopedia... 173.66.197.27 (talk) 18:10, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Because not all bot-related actions are done by bots, especially wrt the antivandalism bots. —Jeremy 03:41, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I like my idea better. ;) -- œ 07:50, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

I believe that letting a human do a job a machine can do faster and easier is degrading to the humanity of the person doing such jobs. If you want to show that the homeless, disabled or economically disadvantaged are perfectly able to do a valuable job, or provide a valuable service, don't let them do jobs that don't have to be done by humans, that have no added value. Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 15:18, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

It might sound crazy, but humans could do the job faster and easier if they organized well-enough.

I think letting people suffer and starve to death for the sake of making an efficient encyclopedia is degrading to humanity... probably a reason why I will never donate. 173.66.197.27 (talk) 21:18, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

Not necessarily. Recent Changes patrollers have a hard enough time dealing with vandalism, and when you factor in the same inherent bias each person has, I can see how easily this idea can and will be turned on its head, especially if an article about something the homeless person(s) hate shows up on the RC feed. A bot's coding doesn't permit such bias, and if a bot reverts in error the coder fixes it to minimize instances of that false-positive. In addition, most bot tasks are so mind-crushingly dull having them relegated to a human has been outlawed in 43 states as a form of slavery. :P —Jeremy 04:13, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

• instead of homeless people, perhaps we should hire illiterate non-english speakers from third-world countries; being homeless would be an extra bonus of course. this would be great for them to learn english and how to read. we'll only need to get them internet and laptops and sanitary water first.--Milowent • 05:51, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

annoying orange

for the annoying orange, i think the character appearances should be like this:

for the annoying orange: 1 appearance to be a main character

for knife: 1 character appearance to be a main character (in chopping and character mode)

for grapefruit (and any other grapefruit family member in the series): 1 appearance to be a minor character, 3 appearances to be a secondary character, and 5 appearances to be a main character

liam the leprechaun: 1 appearance to be a minor character, 3 appearances to be a secondary character, 5 appearances to be a main character, and i also think that he should be the secondary antonagest (how do u spell that again?) (if that isn't there)

and any other characters: 1 appearance to be a minor character, 3 appearances to be a secondary character, and 5 appearances to be a main character.

please go talk to an administrator that knows the annoying orange and tell him or her "do u know the annoying orange? if so, please go to my talk page.".

and tell him to reply

69.236.160.181 (talk) 20:17, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

P.S. if u reply here, please leave a talkback note on my talk.

I don't think Jimbo has been involved in editing The Annoying Orange so you might be better off discussing article improvements on the talk page for the article instead of here. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:22, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

• I now rue the day I created that now-giant mess.--Milowent • 05:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

When I saw this section's name, I thought it was going to be a complaint about the "You have new messages" bar. LadyofShalott 05:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Contents pages navigation proposal

A proposal to add topical links to all of the contents pages has been made. As part of that proposal, the navigation bar at the top of these contents pages would look like this.

• Overviews
• Outlines
• Lists
• Portals
• Glossaries
• Categories
• Vital articles
• Featured content
• Good articles
• Indices
• A–Z index

• Reference
• Culture
• Geography
• Health
• History
• Human activities
• Mathematics
• Nature
• People
• Philosophy
• Religion
• Society
• Technology

All who read this invitation, please respond to the proposal, Portal talk:Contents#Adding topical links to contents pages navigational headers and footers, as you see fit. Regards, RichardF (talk) 15:10, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Change "vision"?

The statement of "sharing the sum of all human knowledge" was certainly good 10 years ago, but that's clearly not what we're doing. I cannot think of any revised, accurate, yet catchy phrase ("all documented knowledge" sounds too technical), but maybe it's time to chew over it and come up with something different for you to say as you travel around the world. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 04:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Why? Our goal still is "the sum of all human knowledge". Not everything has to be documented, and if certain common knowledge is not likely to be challenged, it doesn't need to a reference. -- œ 04:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm thinking of the Eyak woman in Northern Alaska or the guy on the Highlands of Papua New Guinea who never wrote anything down; what they know is similar to the sky being blue, yet we cannot include it here. One would have to conclude that it's either not knowledge, or (worse yet) that they are not human. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 04:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well hey, I got a link for everything: WP:NOTDONE, WP:NORUSH. ;) But no, I get what you're saying, but I don't think changing our vision statement is really necessary. It's already too established anyway. -- œ 04:46, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I agree with the OP, although perhaps not OP's tone. The goal of Misplaced Pages is not to include all human knowledge. In fact, one of our five pillars, WP:NOT explicitly lists a whole bevy of types of "human knowledge" that we neither want nor allow. Furthermore, I've seen editors (usually those seeking to include trivial information in otherwise fine articles, or those seeking to include BLP violating info on the grounds that it's "sourced") sometimes even use this vision statement as a defense. Now, I fully understand that a vision statement is not a policy, and that company's routinely neither want nor intend to follow their own mottos in a literal way, and it may not even be possible—if I might be a bit snarky, Google's "Don't be evil" comes to mind. But I think that the problems that Google has faced as a result of its motto point to the reason why this actually matters—because it's awkward to have to say "Well, we don't really mean 'all human knowledge'.". I think it may be worthwhile to consider a more appropriate phrase, although, like Seb, I don't know what that might be. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:08, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

It's not the goal of Misplaced Pages to include all human knowledge. Nobody here is discussing any Misplaced Pages goal, this is about the Wikimedia vision. --Yair rand (talk) 06:31, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

You are right that it is not the goal of Misplaced Pages to include all human knowledge - the key phrase usually overlooked in this criticism is "the sum". It is the goal of Misplaced Pages to include the sum of all human knowledge.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 10:58, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

That's 42. --Dweller (talk) 11:06, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Am I missing the meaning of "sum" here? Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 11:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

See Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. Better still, read the books. There's a reason people go on and on and on about them! --Dweller (talk) 12:03, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Duh. I'm not that stupid... Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 12:16, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Sum is used as "summary" - see definition #4 at http://en.wiktionary.org/sum#Noun —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.89.95 (talk) 13:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

ooooh. hm-kay. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 13:05, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

So let's have a competition to summarize all human knowledge in, say, 1000 words or less. Then we can just leave the winning entry on the main page and we can all go party.--Kotniski (talk) 13:27, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Great work, indeed

(link to Encyclopedia Dramatica removed). Tijfo098 (talk) 04:24, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Your point? -- œ 04:47, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Not sure what his point is, but I've removed one of his links. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Not an old guy, and pretty cute!

From AdbMonkey's main user page: "So to summarize, I really just like the cool people on wikipedia, and I LOVE THE WIKIPEDIA SO MUCH! It's so cute! I want to kiss it and marry it! The one that created this really knew what he was doing. And I imagined an old guy when I read about him, but he's actually pretty cute. That's nice. Anyway. I like this friendly, nice wikipedia because it is unbiased and honest and will always love you back." Thought you might be able to use a reason to smile. Best,  – OhioStandard (talk) 12:28, 31 January 2011 (UTC) Misplaced Pages, cute, friendly and unbiased? LOL are we talking about the same encyclopedia here?♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages's coverage in The Economist

Mr. Wales,

I was wondering whether you’ve been following the coverage that Misplaced Pages has been receiving in The Economist. The most recent issue of The Economist published a letter from me in response to an article about this in their previous issue. My letter is here, the first one listed under the “WikiTweaks” heading.

The Economist edited my letter in order to make it fit in their magazine, which may have slightly altered the meaning of some parts of it. I’m aware that you began delegating your authority to ArbCom before 2007, but the point of my letter’s last paragraph is that this trend and the decline in participation still seem correlated with one another. The Economist also left out where I mentioned who was the user whose reason for leaving I described in detail. The user I was referring to is user:Varoon_Arya, and my letter is summarizing the reason for quitting the project that he gave in this comment.

My goal here isn’t to undo any specific decision made by ArbCom or by the community, so I’d rather not get into specific decisions that I think were examples of the problem that I described, although I can do that if you think it would be productive. What I’d like is just to reduce the incidence of this sort of problem in the future. During last month’s arbitration election, some of the candidates also brought attention to this issue—for example, this is how Sandstein described it:

In my view, the main problem with policy enforcement is not that it is either too strict or too lenient, but that it is conducted unevenly, because in practice it is shaped too much by social dynamics and not enough by rules. Popular and experienced editors can often get away with problematic behavior more easily than new editors who espouse fringe opinions. But it should be the other way around: The longer somebody participates, and especially if they hold positions of trust such as adminship, the higher a standard of conduct should they be held to, because they are expected to know better.

I think this statement is intended to be referring to community-imposed sanctions rather than to ArbCom, but the same problem theoretically applies in both situations.

Do you think it’s worth making an effort to do something about the problem described in my letter and Sandstein’s statement? If so, I have some ideas about how a system of checks and balances for Misplaced Pages could work, but I’ll only explain it if you’re interested. --Captain Occam (talk) 18:44, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Your letter seems to reflect the assumption that minority viewpoints are under-represented on Misplaced Pages. The truth is diametrically different. For virtually any minoritarian/fringe/extreme-fringe viewpoint, Misplaced Pages is almost guaranteed to contain more coverage than any comparable serious reference work. And I'm talking orders of magnitude more coverage, much of it written by adherents of the minoritarian view in question. For example, our article on AIDS denialism is twice as long as our article on penicillin; I'm not aware of any comparable reference work which so much as mentions a view as far-out as AIDS denialism.

Of all the problems faced by Misplaced Pages, an under-representation of minortarian viewpoints is not among them. And while incivility undoubtedly drives away good users, I would argue that many more leave after months or years of trying to "collaborate" with single-purpose, agenda-driven, often frankly obsessive editors who are never shown the door out of a misguided sense of priorities. MastCell  19:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Wow! Have you had your blood pressure checked recently?--Aspro (talk) 19:33, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

My letter has nothing to do with any viewpoint being under-represented or over-represented on Misplaced Pages, and I don’t understand how you’ve drawn the conclusion that it does. Both my letter and the comment I quoted from Sandstein are about policy being enforced selectively, especially the policy about civility. Civility is one of the five pillars of Misplaced Pages, and should be required to the same degree from everyone regardless of their viewpoint, or whether that viewpoint is under-represented or over-represented here. Can we please keep this discussion on topic, and not bring up irrelevant tangents like this? --Captain Occam (talk) 19:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Captain Occam, thank you for your comments. I agree with the quote from Sandstein, although I think not as severe as some people seem to think, and I would be eager to hear ideas in this area. It's probably important to keep in mind that ideas have to be practical, i.e. have to be about changes to policy that we can actually enact and enforce in some reasonable way. "How to get there from here?" should always be at the top of our minds. One aspect of this is that we are really a pretty small community - always have been - and this community does run (and properly so!) on friendship and mutual respect. That necessarily introduces some dangers of subjectivity.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 19:37, 31 January 2011 (UTC)