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DYK for Death of Aristotelis Goumas

On 6 January 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Death of Aristotelis Goumas, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the death of Aristotelis Goumas led to public demonstrations in the predominantly ethnic Greek region of Himarë in Albania? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

Thanks for your help Victuallers (talk) 10:49, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

25-pic. "Greeks" chart

Gia sou Athinaie.- Please, can you give a hand in the new Greeks galley picture? I am looking for skilled-hand editors so as to perform the chart. I am not that skilled myself in drawing charts.

Here is the final results table:

ANCIENT: Aristotle; Pericles; Alexander the Great; Plato; King Leonidas; Hippocrates; Homer; Herodotus; Socrates; Archimedes.

MEDIEVAL (BYZANTINE) -up to 1500 A.D.-: Hypatia; Alexios Komnenos; Basileios Boulgaroktonos; Gemisthus Pletho.

MODERN -1500 A.D. to 1900 A.D.-: Theodoros Kolokotronis; Georgios Karaiskakis; Lascarina Bouboulina; Ioannis Capodistrias; El Greco; Rigas Feraios .

CONTEMPORARY: Eleftherios Venizelos; Georgios Papanikolaou; Pyrros Dimas; Constantine Cavafy; Archbishop Makarios.

Thank you, I would appreciate your help very much so as to give and end to this subject, at least for the moment. Regards.-Periptero (talk) 11:14, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I'll do my best, though I have never done this before, so it may take me some time. I too want it to end, but it seems there are some people determined to prevent it from happening. I mean look at this: . I want to wait and see what will happen with the Leonidas image, but even if it is deleted, it's not like there is a shortage of notable Greeks. But rest assured, that collage will go up, with or without Leonidas, and whether some people like or not. Athenean (talk) 06:55, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

P.S. Been to B.A., and it's one of my favorite cities in the world. Narrowly missed a chance to go there again recently. Athenean (talk) 06:56, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Τελικα,μαλλον απαξιεις να απαντησεις ποιοι ειναι εκεινοι οι "Αλβανοι" που κατοικουν στη βορειοδυτικη Ελλαδα και αποτελουν ποσοστο μικροτερο του 10% του πληθυσμου της περιοχης και επιμενεις μαλιστα οτι ο εν λογω χαρτης στο αρθρο για τους αλβανους τους απεικονιζει.Lysus.K (talk) 21:38, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Thank you for your understanding about proving that I'm not an elephant. Can you help with getting Himara revolt in the dyk nominations page?CoolMartini (talk) 23:33, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

collage

why dont you use this image for Kolokotronis? Its much more glorious http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Kolokotronis_Theodore.JPG Greco22 (talk) 20:17, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I prefer the one from the πεντοχίλιαρο aesthetically, an it's also the most well-known. Athenean (talk) 21:45, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

I like them also :). Sometimes are also a target for "fallmerayerans" and various anti-greeks

Anyway, I dont support some replacements for this reason but only for representative reasons Greco22 (talk) 23:39, 9 January 2011 (UTC)

DYK for Phoenice

On 14 January 2011, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Phoenice, which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that the Greek city Phoenice became the center of the federal government of the Epirote League after the assassination of the last Aeacid dynasty ruler, Deidamia II of Epirus? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

The DYK project (nominate) 00:03, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Ancient Macedonians

Careful. By my count, you're at three reverts. It would not be a good idea to revert again today, even though Hxseek is blocked. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:02, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

I wasn't planning on it, but I'm pretty sure I only have 2 from January 29 . The only other edit I have on that article is from the 26th of January, and it's not a revert. Not that it matters, but just wanted to be sure. Athenean (talk) 20:06, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Alexander the Great

I can totaly see your passion and love for Greek art, history, and architecture. You reverted my last addition citing it as POV and stating that it was editoralizing. I agree with the latter but not the former. The source I had clearly cites it so, although I did change the order but now I put the text quoted and I added an extra literature source by Arrian.

I know how you feel about him and I am aware of your contribution to this article. I beileve that you try to create a very positive image of him and that I agree with afterall he was a great man in many ways. I also like to think Alexander for all his complexities and idiosyncracies. The Alexander that I understand is a man of great resolve, pushed to move forward by destiny, calculating, intelligent, and wise, but at the same time conflicted, prone to alcoholism, jealous, and at times void of self control. Alexander is an interesting figure in history of the world, as he possesses a sort of flair that comes with ethnic determination yet he is not like the other conquerers. He is not ghengis Khan, or Turkish crusaders or etc. Alexander has a complicated soul, it is my view that in many ways he is the Greek version of Cyrus the Great. Reading Cyropedia from an early age Alexander grows up admiring the Persians, whom during the time of Xerxes he also grows to hate.

To be honest I like the edit the way it is now and I believe that to give a fair view of who Alexander was we have to put to light both his strengths as well as his weaknesses. However I am bised in your favor too having seen your contributions to the article and I think how I would feel if another person interjected a point in my writing and that does not sound appealing to me.

So long story short, I leave it entirely up to you! If you so incline to take down my additional comments, then be it, but if you feel that perhaps presenting the good and the bad, the complicated and the clear, would give Alexander more dimension and make his article more prominent and worthy to read, then by all means let my edits stay. I guess what I am saying is you do not have to respond to this message unless u so incline or wish to share a thought, as I am giving you full authority to revert the edit, but I wish that you wont because if I was invested in Alexander the Great, then I would do all I can to give more than one aspect of his personality. No matter great job and I am becoming more and more interested in Greek history as I read so I am totally infatuated with Persian, Greek, and Ancient history :). Sincerely yours!

Dr. Persi (talk) 23:32, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for responding. This is not a question of making Alexander look good or bad, it is a question of relevance. The point is, the destruction of Persepolis has nothing to do with Alexander's personality. The section to which you made the additions strictly discusses Alexander's personality and I don't see how the destruction of Persepolis relates to that. Neither does the source you use tie the destruction of Persepolis to Alexander's personality. Whether he ordered the destruction deliberately, whether it was a lapse of judgment, or whether it was an accident (it happened several months after the taking of Persepolis), we'll never really know, but whatever happened, I just don't see a connection to his personality. Btw, I have nothing against Persia and the Persian people, I have been to Persepolis and visited Cyrus' Tomb (and was quite impressed), but I really feel your additions, while sourced, stray from the subject of the personality section too much. Regards, Athenean (talk) 23:57, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

How about a move of the content to the appropriate section then? I agree but where in the article do you think this data fits? Dr. Persi (talk) 06:55, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Frankly, per WP:LABEL, considering the tone (e.g. "savage orgy"), I don't think it fits anywhere in an encyclopedia. A brief mention of the Persepolis incident is already included in the article, I think that's sufficient. Athenean (talk) 07:40, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Tone is as per article, and it is as per that author who is very reliable a historical fact. We should not choose to censor certain data on the basis of its tone. I can cut out the "savage" from the text if you want. That still should be included becuase if we are to give a full picture of Alexander the Great, it shouldnt be just that he is "amply intelligent" or that he has "great self control" or that he is "erudite" but also that he sometimes is ok with orgies and such as well. I am going to add that to Persepolis section then. Are we in agreement? Dr. Persi (talk) 15:58, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

OK, I moved the word "savage" and removed the section as per your discussio from "personality" to Persia. How do you do now? Is this acceptable? I even added "according to a scholar..." so as not to give the perception that this statement is widespread. cheers. Dr. Persi (talk) 16:06, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid not. "Violent orgy" instead of "Savage orgy"? That is hardly a change. Look, the thing is, here in wikipedia, we have to use neutral wording and avoid such language. I'm sure I could find sources that use similar language for the deeds of the Persians during Xerxes' invasion of Greece, for the Fall of Constantinople, for the capture of Jerusalem by the First Crusade (talk about savage), but as you can see, we don't use such language in those articles. We have to stick by WP:NPOV and avoid such colorful language. While authors such as the one you cite are not constrained to do so and can use whatever they see fit, in wikipedia it's different. I've been editing here since 2007, and I know what I'm talking about. Even about the Holocaust we do not use such language. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm getting the impression that you think the coverage of Alexander in the article is too "positive" and that's why you want to use such language, but that goes completely against the spirit of NPOV. WP:NPOV is one of the pillars of wikipedia, and we have to abide by it, like it or not.Athenean (talk) 20:02, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Well it goes both ways, NPOV also entails coverage of both data and I am sure there are a lot of articles or sub articles that such "language" on Xerxes with such ease. I get the feeling that we are trying to white wash everything here on Wiki. Let me work on it. I will get back to you. Dr. Persi (talk) 04:07, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Here, look at the page now. Also show me the "source" where it shows that Xerxes the Great allowed Persian troops to kill and rape Athenians, then started to kill each other over the spoils ;P (although I am sure you can find a similar source for some other atrocity, as I am sure these old monarchs were all in it). So tell me what you think of this change I made?. Dr. Persi (talk) 04:11, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Again, as I said before you have complete authority as I am not well read in Alexander the Great so feel free to go as you wish. I simply hoped to follow in a path that is approved by you. To me it looks fair now but again up to you. Peace. Dr. Persi (talk) 05:56, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I am awfully busy right now, though I did look at your recent changes and they seemed in the right direction. I will think about it a little bit more. Athenean (talk) 06:37, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

After some thought, I removed the whole "murder and rape" thing as excessively graphic verbiage that serves no particular purpose other than shock value. Other than that, I think we're ok. Though the article suffers from an overuse of primary sources, the quote from Arrian has merit and I will leave it there. Athenean (talk) 00:34, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

I think this is a mistake on your part, as you will devalue the article, in what I personally believe to be a white washed account. But as you wish. No worries ! Dr. Persi (talk) 03:57, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

WikiProject Dacia

Template:WikiProject Dacia Invitation --Codrin.B (talk) 04:01, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Defending Armenia

Seems like you've been to many countries but not Armenia in your info page. Yet you are still talking about the armenian genocide. I think it is because of your greek origin. Please try to be neutral. Thanks. 92.45.12.22 (talk) 14:05, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Paranoia in Albanians

Take in account that Zjarri-Aegist, unexplained revert-ready activity is closely connected with their irc off-wiki interaction.Alexikoua (talk) 17:32, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi there

I also hold accounts: user:Besokontrollo, user:Sepastaj, and user:Mother Albania, so we met earlier and you asked me this question already. I have good reason to believe that those accounts were stolen the passwords, because I edited from public computers. I'll stick with this one and not change it anymore now. My problem is that I really have no clue how to do the committed identity, so that I feel safer. From the public university where I editied from there are a lot of students that play password games. --Brunswick Dude (talk) 08:00, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Lost passwords, how interesting. I think I've heard that one before. Also interesting that you created this account January 2, but still edited as Sepastaj till January 16. I think I know what's going on here (and who you really are). You do realize that if you get caught, considering who I know you are, it will be indef, right? All I have to do is file an SPI. Athenean (talk) 08:12, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand, but I told you the truth. Why did you remove your posting at talk:Albanians? --Brunswick Dude (talk) 08:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

AE

I will take back direct accusations against u if u take back u'r accusation that I need to be blanket banned coz I'm some kind of malicious editor. If I'm fiery, I'll watch this. However, I have a lot to contribute, and am certainly not some kind of phobe-Hellene. Quite the opposite Hxseek (talk) 07:45, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Deal. I had already struck my request that you be topic banned as a gesture of good will, but I now removed it altogether. I understand that you are genuinely interested in the subject and have a lot to contribute, and I also understand you are no ανθέλλην, and never claimed that you were one, no worries. Peace. Athenean (talk) 07:52, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll change minenshortly.( iPads are too cumbersome) Hxseek (talk) 09:07, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

√ Hxseek (talk) 12:01, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Ottoman Macedonia

Greetings! Could you please check the above and possibly write up some better content for that page. Do you think it should stand as an article or is the material (if anything significant is there at all) is already covered in other articles? Thanks. Shadowmorph 07:59, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, good to see you're still around. I think there is enough material for an article, and I agree the article is in terrible shape at the moment. However, I am currently busy with Ancient Macedonians, which is taking up all my energy. Actually, I was wondering if you would be willing to participate there, there is quite a debate going on. Maybe we can work on Ottoman Macedonia afterwards. Athenean (talk) 08:12, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

		The Socratic Barnstar
		For your brilliant argumentative skills. A Macedonian (talk) 21:04, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, thank you. Athenean (talk) 22:18, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Congrats! Could use them at Michael Kefalianos.  Nipsonanomhmata  10:39, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Talk back

Aeolian vs NW Greek

Hi. Apart from Hammond, who else (ie something based on inscriptionary evidence, etc) has argued that Macedonian might have rather been more akin to Aeolian ? And if so, was this more pertinent in lower vs upper Macedonia. I know that Hatzopoulos discusses this in that Congress in Thessaloniki, which is up on HistoryofMacedonia website.

Also, do u agree with the idea that Doric and NW GReek dialect groups aren;t really distinct dialect groups, because they do not possess any common innovations which Aetolian, Ionioan or Arcado-Cypriot do not have ? It is as if they are collection of localized, somewhat simpler dialects ? (And i am not necessarily agreeing with Chadwick's hypothesis)

Hxseek (talk) 09:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC

Lete article

Hi Athinaios, I've noticed that the article of Lete is vandalised. I also, notice that the name of the village is written in slavic. What's the point of the slavic name in an ancient village? Besides, the only slavs settled (much later) in the area were Bulgarians. truthmaniac 9 February 2011

Sock

Guess who is socking? I had from the very start suspicion that he might be but now it's more than obvious that he wants to finish his unfinished job as Sulmues (for example nominating for ga article the previous account had a great desire make, and delisting ga articles his previous account didn't like)Alexikoua (talk) 15:07, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. But his confidence leads me to suspect that he has done some gimmick with the IPs and thinks he is safe from CU (I'm guessing he changed geolocation, that's why he's doing this). Gather as much evidence as you can, but be careful not to post it on-wiki until the right time, per WP:BEANS. Athenean (talk) 19:57, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Take also into account that the 'retired' tag was Sulmue's favorite strategy when he witness a 'defeat in his national povs'.Alexikoua (talk) 15:04, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Science in the Middle Ages: Vote and scope

Hi. Check out Talk:Science in the Middle Ages#On vote Gun Powder Ma (talk) 01:33, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Ioannina Vilayet

Since you have participated in this discussion there is a new debate there. It appears that user Zjarri. doesn't consider you an 'experienced editor' since he collectivelly called a number of editors to participate.Alexikoua (talk) 23:45, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

? revert

I don't think it quantifies as a revert, does it ? I did not remove your entire content - I left in your re-amendment of the stuff on PCT!

I merely removed a redundant line: The majority of the words are Greek, several inscriptions have revealed some tendencies toward Doric Greek and Aeolic Greek; on the other hand, there can be found some Illyrian and Thracian elements.

I have no issue with any its contecnt, however, it has become redundant because what it says is covered by the newly put linguistics sources. Ie the interpretation of the inscriptions is covered by your line on the PCT deals with the NW GReek component and my addition of Hatzopuolos discusses his take on Aeolic contribution. The lexical/ vocabulary issue is also covered well in the assessment in mid-paragraph. So the line from Borza merely duplicates stuff already covered later.

If you absolutely disagree with me, please let me know and I will re-insert it Slovenski Volk (talk)

It is a partial revert, and as such it is a clear cut violation of your revert parole. That much is beyond doubt. I also also don't agree with the removal of the content itself, as the PCT isn't the only inscription in Macedonian. As the Companion makes clear, there are several other fragmentary inscriptions, though the PCT is so far the only substantial inscription. Athenean (talk) 23:31, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

That's fine, I can put it back in; athough the content is already covered. Slovenski Volk (talk) 03:26, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Well, are you going to, or not? Athenean (talk) 06:49, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

settle down, its done (I am a surgeon, you know, outside Wikiworld). Yep, it's put back in. I just split Borza's part in two. The part on inscriptions follows were it was originally, the part on "the majority f words are Greek" occurs couple lines later, in the lexical discussion. Slovenski Volk (talk) 08:46, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Then maybe you should focus more on your surgeries than on wikipedia stuff. God knows your patients would appreciate it :) Athenean (talk) 05:41, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

I have't killed anyone, yet. I think the language paragraph has shaped up OK. Next i hope to add the stuff on lifestyle, which I earlier presented on the talk page, and will edit in the few points you brought up on it. Slovenski Volk (talk) 10:05, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Hold on a sec, Athenean. I think you are out of line by calling my addition that "Masson and Dubois interpreted" the PCT as NW Greek as "hedging". Firstly, check your definition of what hedging is. There is no subvertive undertone in my addition, it is merely representing fact. Masson and Dubois interpreted the PCT as NW Greek. As you know, the PCT does not possess anything about it which makes it's categorization as NW Greek unequivocal. In fact, it has all the somewhat discordant features that certain of the glosses and names do. That is why that even after its dicovery, a concensus is lacking. Thus to insist that on leaving the sentence as it stands is a misrepresentation of the situation and what the sources say about it. I think you have been rather fair and reasonable so far, and I don't want to halt the progress we are slowly making, however, we need to represent the sources truthfully, and as an educated editor, you should agree with. I do accept edits of yours which are fair enough {eg I agree that my addition of Hall's reflection on the matter is perhaps unneccessary} Slovenski Volk (talk) 12:39, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

:What should be attributed to Masson and Dubois is the argument that Macedonian was NW Greek based on the language of the tablet. However, that the language of the tablet is a form of Greek is beyond doubt. I can practically understand all of it (as could any reasonably educated fluent Greek speaker), and I don't speak a word of Illyrian, Thracian, Brygian, etc... Athenean (talk) 18:08, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

On second thought, none of the other claims in the article are similarly hedged. Nor are they attributed to specific authors ("X says", "According to Y and Z"), so I don't see why that should be the case for the PCT. In general, I am against dropping names of authors in the main text, as it assumes our readers know who they are and is somewhat esoteric. Now, that the language of the tablet is a form of Greek is beyond doubt. I can practically understand all of it (as could any reasonably educated fluent Greek speaker), and I don't speak a word of Illyrian, Thracian, or Brygian. What needs to be hedged, and is suitably hedged is that because the language of the tablet is NW, that XMK is NW Greek. Now that should be hedged, and it is ("the tablet has been used to support the argument that XMK was NW Greek"). However, that the language of the tablet is a form of Greek is beyond dispute. I have yet to see a source that says otherwise. Athenean (talk) 00:51, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

No, that's fine. I accept that. It's quite interesting you can basically understand all of it Slovenski Volk (talk) 23:34, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Hellenic Nomarchy

Seems this atricle needs to pass the nomination. Thanks for your time c-p it.Alexikoua (talk) 13:10, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk:Turkey#Armenian_Genocide

The section you started is now apparently treated as a majority-wins vote... Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 14:23, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Diren Yardimli will be reported for edit-warring. It is the only way to deal with the situation. Athenean (talk) 19:19, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Done . Feel free to pitch in. Athenean (talk) 19:48, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks; I'd rather not since I am obviously Armenian... the only Navajo-speaking one to boot. Talk about seeing ghosts. Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 20:30, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

He got blocked, so be on the lookout for socks. And thanks for all the help. Athenean (talk) 21:49, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

thanks

Thanks for cleaning up that strange bit in fustanella. (User:Manytexts) 110.32.241.53 (talk) 00:37, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		For keeping the main, central idea what encyclopedia really should be. WhiteWriter 12:18, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Hi

http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Cupcaker is http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Confederatre. Kavas (talk) 18:16, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Indeed. You should file a WP:SPI, or else post on WP:AN/I since this case is quite obvious. I can't take any action myself, I am not an administrator. Athenean (talk) 18:17, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks

I'm glad you liked it. I am now working on Early History ie the Argead origins, Herodotus' accounts of conquest, etc; into which I'll incorporate the Geographic origins section. Slovenski Volk (talk) 02:08, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Jagged 85 RFC/U and cleanup has been appealed to ArbCom

You are involved in a recently-filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Jagged 85 RFC/U and cleanup and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the following resources may be of use—

• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests#Requests for Arbitration;
• Misplaced Pages:Arbitration guide.

Thanks, -Aquib (talk) 04:38, 21 March 2011 (UTC)