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Per reverting

Hi Atama.. In the seemingly unending saga of how to understand editwarring and reverting, I wanted to ask this question about reverting, and pertaining to this ANI question

Edits by Jmh649:

Transcendental Meditation is used to refer to both a spiritual movementand specifically to the form of mantra meditation practiced by this movement. They were introduced in India in 1955 by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (1917–2008).The meditation practice involves the use of a sound or mantra and is practiced for 15–20 minutes twice per day, while sitting comfortably with closed eyes

My edits:

The Transcendental Meditation or TM technique is a form of mantra meditation. The technique was developed and introduced by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, (1917-2008), in India, in 1955, and is practiced for 20 minutes twice a day while sitting comfortably with the eyes closed.. Transcendental Meditation may also refer to Transcendental Meditation movement.

Original version :

The Transcendental Meditation or TM technique is a form of mantra meditation introduced in India in 1955 by Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (1917–2008). It involves the use of a sound or mantra and is practiced for 15–20 minutes twice per day, while sitting comfortably with closed eyes.

I was deliberately attempting to not revert while both using the content added by Jmh649 and holding on to the original material. Per WP:3RR: "consider working to improve on the other editor's text, or discussing it with them, rather than simply undoing their changes". My edits don't seem to be reversion and or a violation. I realized that anyone editing is always changing someone else's content, so if this edit of mine was considered a revert, in actuality, no one could edit with out creating 1RR for themselves. This seems like a small issue right now, but wondered anyway if you would look at this and see what you think. Many thanks.(olive (talk) 21:33, 1 September 2010 (UTC))

Both of the diffs for yourself and Doc are the same thing when I click on the links, so I'm not entirely certain what examples you want to use. If you're saying that the lead was initally at the "original version", then Doc changed it to his version, then you changed it to your version... No, I'd say not. It's borderline, because the version you changed it to is closer to the original version but you did essentially incorporate the change that Doc wanted, which was to include the movement. Your edit did act to de-emphasize the movement and try to make it appear as an afterthought, while Doc's edit made it prominent by mentioning it first and the technique second. If I were you, I'd still treat it as a revert to avoid conflict. If I were being asked to enforce a sanction against you for violating 1RR I'd decline. -- Atama頭 22:28, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to look at this. I think I understand what you're saying but I'd say also much of what constitutes a reversion is somewhat open to interpretation. I appreciate your interpretation in my case.:o). As an aside, I never edit to make something appear to be something else. That paragraph being discussed here had been stable for quite awhile. The article has been about the "technique" while content about the "movement" had been split off into another complete article. So the change I made was to the stable version while adding mention of the technique per Doc's edit with out making it the focus of the article. The issue is contentious enough that I've requested formal mediation to help us work through it. Its unfortunate that I appeared to be doing something less than straightforward. That's never my intention. Thanks again for your comment and time.(olive (talk) 22:54, 1 September 2010 (UTC))

I understand. Some reverts are obvious, some aren't, and some edits look like they might be reverts but probably aren't. It's not black and white which is one reason why WP:AN3 isn't always easy. If you look here, you'll see that there are three ways to respond to a change to an article; accepting the change, improving the change, or reverting the change. I think that your edit falls in-between the latter two responses. I'm glad that mediation is being sought, whether formal or informal, and wish you luck with that. -- Atama頭 23:06, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Justin Bieber.

Hi, Atama! This edit is totally inappropriate and should most likely be erased from Misplaced Pages completely. - Donald Duck (talk) 21:55, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Revision text hidden per WP:RD2: Purely degrading material. ---Taelus (Talk) 22:02, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, Taelus beat me to it right as I was doing the same revdelete. -- Atama頭 22:03, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Sorry :), but I saw the article title as the section name here in my watchlist, and knowning that it is a frequent target for such vandalism I swooped in! Also gave the offending user an only warning, just in case they do turn around after considering the weight of what they did. ---Taelus (Talk) 22:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, no need to be sorry at all. Actually I'm new to revdeletes myself and was making sure I wasn't screwing it up as it would have been my first one, I'm glad to see you did exactly what I was about to do, so I was actually doing it right. I agree with the only warning, that kind of language on a BLP is not acceptable. -- Atama頭 22:11, 1 September 2010 (UTC)

I actually think he's a good singer, so I don't see what's to dislike about him. I've got a friend in real life who dislikes him kind of -- he thinks he looks 10 and sounds like a girl, which I don't think he does. Anyway, on an unrelated note, for some reason the link to my August 2010 archive on my talk page is red, but I know I created it this morning. I saw it after I saved the created page, so I'm not sure why the link's red. It's also red here. - Donald Duck (talk) 00:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I fixed that for you. You'd spelled it "Auguts", which sounds like some sort of abdominal injury. Red links are blue now! -- Atama頭 00:06, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

How the hell did I not see that? =/ - Donald Duck (talk) 00:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

~NerdyScienceDude 02:19, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

East India Company

Thanks, As you the first & only one to understand the problem in New Article added in East India Company as following In 2005 Return of “East India Company”, by The First Indian - Mr. Harsh Jain Since 1600's,

As we dont know how to add or edit the article in Misplaced Pages. Our staff have tried several times to add the article but article got deleted again & again, and we were called unshameless etc. We requested several times that we only like to provide correct information to Misplaced Pages ( as it is worlds No 1 encyclopedia ), that Mr HV Jain is first person to incorporate the Company since 1600's, for this we faced so much problem. Kindly guide us and help us in solving our problem. It will be highly appreciated if you kindly add the arcticle in East India Company Page.

Details of ARTICLE to be Added in East India Company is as under, please help us in adding the article

In 2005 Return of “East India Company”, by The First Indian - Mr. Harsh Jain Since 1600's In 2005, Mr Harsh Jain, an Indian businessman born 25 January in New Delhi and based in Ghaziabad – India, England, Africa, Middle East & Mauritius, incorporated the East India Company UK Limited in England & Wales. Mr. Jain says that the Company is his precious asset. www.eastindiacompanyuk.co.uk Harsh Jain is one of the youngest entrepreneurs. In 2005 he formed the company East India Company UK limited in London, England, as he always wanted to work under the name of this company; he always says that it is his treasure to own this glorious name. This reflects the Glorious days of Raj. In 2000 he joined the family business after completing his education. His Interpersonal Skills, Self Confidence, adaptable to different cultures & work environments are the key Strengths of Mr. Jain. In 2002 he has worked hard to promote his Stone Mining and Iron & Steel Business in International Market. EIC 2005 - News First Indian Mr. HV Jain Mr. Jain is Emissary for many Countries Today at the age of 31 and being an NRI, he has travelled to various parts of the Globe and gathered knowledge & experience about their culture and economy. He is in constant touch with the State Heads to understand the needs of dynamic changing economies and demands. Today he is working actively with the Organizations in India, United Kingdom, Middle East, Mauritius, Eastern Europe and in Central African Continent.

FRSA, theRSA.org, United Kingdom. Member, Royal Over-Seas League, United Kingdom. Director, Indo-British Trade Council, East Midlands, United Kingdom.

Companies under Directorship of Mr. Harsh Jain . East India Company UK Limited, United Kingdom . Jain Rolling Mills, India. Indira Overseas, India. Island General Trading Company LLC, United Arab Emirates. Indira Overseas Limited, Mauritius. Cameroon Ispat Sarl, Cameroon . Ritz Boulevard plc, United Kingdom. Emirates Petroleum plc, United Kingdom. Sindbad the Trader plc, United Kingdom. UAE Contracting Limited, United Kingdom. State Trading Corporation Limited, United Kingdom. Mittal Ispat plc, United Kingdom. EIC 2005 - Incorporation EIC talk - East India Company Limited

As we posted note to you just few minutes ago, But forget to sign the post, East India Co (talk) 13:23, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I feel silly.

Usually when I don't change my status to offline is because I fall asleep before I usually do. However, this time I simply forgot. D= - Donald Duck (talk) 15:06, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

A plea

Hi,

I hope this doesn't catch you at a stressful time after your recent troubles but if I might ask a favour. Could you please keep an eye on discussions at Talk:Timeline of the history of Gibraltar and let me know if I begin to step out of line.

As an aside I find it very difficult that Richard is imposing himself as mediator given the arbcom case. So I would appreciate you helping me keep my cool so to speak. Justin talk 15:53, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I have it watchlisted. I think you're doing fine so far, it looks like Cremallera has tried to break down the dispute to a list of bullet points, which is something I try to do as well in disputes. I think it's worth going over the list to see if you agree that it is accurate and try to address the points individually. If things get out of line from anyone I'll try to intervene. -- Atama頭 17:47, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you and the advice is helpful. Justin talk 19:58, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

See I believe Cremallera has breached 3RR. All points made are also sourced, yet he is asserting they are not. Justin talk 21:22, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Cremarella has only had one revert by our rules at that article in the past 24 hours, see WP:3RR where it states, "A series of consecutive saved revert edits by one user with no intervening edits by another user counts as one revert." I intend to comment at that talk page regarding the dispute with a suggestion but unfortunately a couple of the references used in your proposed text are being blocked by the proxy server my workplace uses and I have to wait until I get home. -- Atama頭 21:39, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

No worries I was going to quit and sleep on it. By the way it isn't my proposed text, the text was originally proposed by Cremallera on the talk page some time ago. He took advantage of my topic ban to remove elements of it. I feel it is important to note that a concensus had been agreed previously. Justin talk 21:50, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

There was a prior consensus and therefore nobody should fault you for trying to implement the changes, however, consensus can change and it clearly has changed now since there is a dispute. Keep in mind that it has been nearly 9 months since there was active discussion on that talk page, so it shouldn't be a big shock if opinions have changed since then. -- Atama頭 21:59, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for your comments, neutral and inciteful as always. Would you ever consider mentoring me to tame my more reactionary tendencies? Regards, Justin talk 10:24, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I've proposed a shortened text capturing what I believe are the salient points, I would appreciate your input. Regards, Justin talk 14:09, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Sadly accusations of nationalism have started to rear their head. I've tried to focus solely on content and have been arguing on that basis but there have been several bad faith accusations. Do you think it would be appropriate to ask arbcom to issue a warning under the restrictions from the arbcom case? Justin talk 17:24, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

To be honest I've been trying to follow the discussion but the wall of text has been getting difficult to get through. Not to mention that as an outsider some of the allegations about Spain/Gibraltar are hard to follow (what makes me impartial really is my ignorance). Aribtration enforcement is the place to ask for someone to issue warnings or sanctions. Any administrator can enforce the existing restrictions as set down by the last ArbCom ruling (that's why they're called "discretionary" sanctions) but I'm reluctant to put on my admin hat because I feel like at that point I'm crossing a line from adviser to enforcer. -- Atama頭 18:04, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Just to reiterate, I am looking over the discussion and seeing if anything needs to be done, so don't worry about going to AE for help unless you're feeling really desperate for a very quick resolution. -- Atama頭 18:11, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Looking over it again, the first time I see "nationalist" brought up was from Richard. I don't think he meant it as an accusation, but merely an observation that discussion of "Spain did this but Gibraltar did that" could lead to the kind of unproductive discussion that has been an issue in the past. It was a little distressing to have Cremallera throw up his hands and give up when he did when there wasn't even any serious bickering going on, but I do understand pulling out before things got heated. I've read enough now I think that I'll make a suggestion on the talk page about what direction to go in. -- Atama頭 18:27, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I've taken on board what you said and I have tried to be objective. I've made a real effort to avoid being sucked into tit for tat exchanges by focusing on content. Thanks for keeping things on an even keel. I completely understand your reluctance to put your admin hat on and please don't think I was asking for that. I value having someone I can ask for objective advice and would never want to put you into that position. Thanks. Justin talk 20:22, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

EMasonAssoc page for Platinum Grammy Nominated producer Young Yonny

EMasonAssoc page for Young Yonny:

Wanted to contact you in regards to the page for Young Yonny that was deleted at first due to lack of references. Young Yonny is a notable producer, he is grammy nominated and the producer of Trey Songz Feat. Fabolous Say Ahh single. I would like to edit the page with reference so that it can go live.

Thank you

A page with this title has previously been deleted.

If you are creating a new page with different content, please continue. If you are recreating a page similar to the previously deleted page, or are unsure, please first contact the deleting administrator using the information provided below.

   * 17:45, 20 March 2010 Atama (talk | contribs) deleted "Young Yonny" ‎ (WP:PROD: Nominated for seven days with no objection: Concern was: Non-notable producer, no references. Fails WP:MUSIC and WP:V.)

EMasonAssoc--EMasonAssoc (talk) 17:44, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Amber Awards

Dear Atama

I note the Amber Awards article I created has been deleted which I accept and we will as one commentator suggested simply wait until it gains momentum over the coming years to meet notability standards. I wonder whether you could help me with one last suggestion - that was to redirect the Amber Awards page to the http://en.wikipedia.org/Australian_Interactive_Media_Association page. The Ambers are sister awards to the long running (now in 17th year) national interactive media Awards of the peak digital body for Australia and there's a brief mention of them in this broader context - which probably suits their current emerging status (now in 2nd year). I don't know how to do this but would really appreciate your help with this. Xxpaulm (talk) 11:20, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Thurop Van Orman

If no histmerge's needed, then deletion is ok. Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • 17:27, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Right on, I've taken care of that. -- Atama頭 17:51, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Identity

In case it comes up, and you would like to know my identity so that I can prove that I'm not who User:HFarmer says I am and that I have no COI -- since you're an independent third party, I wouldn't mind providing you proof of who I am. I.e., a phone call, scan of my driver's license, scan of my social security card, scan of my passport, etc (I could even have my ISP give you the name and address associated with my IP address), as well as a full verifiable work and family history, proof of no COI, and why it's important for me to remain anonymous. I just don't want to disclose any personal info to HFarmer or her allies, due to their history of trying to hunt down critics in real life. -- 128.255.251.167 (talk) 19:11, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate your willingness to disclose your information to prove your case but it's not necessary. I don't need to know who you are, I only need to know that you don't want your identity public and that you haven't taken any actions to reveal your information on Misplaced Pages. -- Atama頭 19:18, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

I forgot to add, my suggestion is to not respond one way or the other in regards to the accuracy of Hfarmer's "research". If you are who you are indentified as, you don't want them to take an acknowledgment as encouragement to continue to pry into your personal information, and if you aren't that person, denying it might give them reason to look at alternate theories about your identity. Just don't comment on it and let it be uncertain. -- Atama頭 19:22, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion. I will simply not acknowledge her when she does that. -- 128.255.251.167 (talk) 19:24, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

What am I supposed to do

What should I do with an IP editor who refuses to compromise? Who posted information here attacking me? Am I just supposed to take their activities and not respond?

I appreciated your warning but really what should I do with things like this? Can they post information about me in violation of numerous policies? --Hfarmer (talk) 19:57, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

You'll notice that revision is deleted as well. You've chosen to go public with your identity, to the extent that you've posted a picture of yourself, your academic history, and a link to your off-wiki biography. Your decision for self-disclosure has the unfortunate side effect that people can learn things about you from simple Google searches or other searches of information. I usually recommend that people refrain from posting personal information for that very reason, even when I ask them to disclose personal connections to clear up COI concerns; they can do so without revealing too much about themselves. By posting information about another editor, you've forced that same state upon them without their decision. I chose to delete the revisions placed by the anonymous editor, not because it was a violation of WP:OUTING (it technically isn't since you've outed yourself) but it was close enough to outing; and also (more importantly) that their reaction to the outing was potentially an unintentional reveal of their own personal information. Overall I just wanted to wipe the slate clean there.

I've looked over Talk:Autogynephilia and I understand that a prolonged exchange between yourself and the other editor could lead you to such levels of frustration that you wanted to see who you were dealing with, and when you felt you had discovered who they were you wanted to expose them. I hope you realize that was wrong, and if you have the urge to take such measures in the future that you choose not to. -- Atama頭 21:10, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

RfA thanks spam

Hello Atama, thank you for supporting my RfA!
I was promoted with a final tally of 65/4/3.
I hope I can live up to everyone's expectations, do my best for Misplaced Pages, and take to heart the constructive criticism. Always feel free to message me if I'm around.

Magog the Ogre (talk) 11:21, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Church Demographics

Hello,

I was wondering if you could reconsider the deletion of "Church Demographics", which you deleted on September 2. You wondered if "church demographics" was even a definition, and if it should just stay under the general term "demographics".

It definitely is different from general demographics! Church demographics exist to assist churches in church planting, church growth, and helps them identify, especially in older mainline denominations, the neighborhood around them, that may have changed in the years since the church was originally established there.

Could you reconsider this? Thanks!

Chuck Salter (talk) 20:53, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I'll restore it, any article I delete through a standard PROD is something I'll restore on request, but in this case I feel strongly that the article doesn't belong and I'll be nominating it for deletion after it is restored. You'll have a chance to argue for its inclusion at that time. When the nomination is complete, I'll provide you with a link to the discussion so that you can participate, thank you. -- Atama頭 20:56, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Marcos Manoles

With some hesitation I am requesting re-instatement of the above. While out of sympathy for the subject's marked intolerance, his importance in the contemporary Greek mentality seems to me uncontestable. This has been achieved by long-term free distribution of the journals (indicated as sources) and by many articles/obituaries in parish magazines----Clive Sweeting

COIN header

I've left a new message about a proposed new header on the project talk page. If you can, please take a look. Thanks! Netalarm 22:40, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

Full testing is up at User:Netalarm/Sandbox. I think it's pretty much done. Netalarm 01:29, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

I tried it and I like it. It's very easy to use. I'd say go ahead and put it in. If someone objects to it we'll probably know soon enough, but nobody has spoken up about it yet. -- Atama頭 16:30, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks and kind regards

Dear Atama, Wished to thank you for the support vote, but most for the comments that you had given. Each word mattered (believe me). Best and regards, Wifione _....... 19:15, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

You're most welcome, and congratulations, I was following the discussion and had hoped you'd make it. I'm glad you've made it to the corps. You'll be a full-fledged admin once you get your first sockpuppet vandal stalker, so keep an eye out! -- Atama頭 20:29, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Will do that :) See you and regards. Wifione _....... 03:36, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Xyz231

I do think that this IP is a "precursor" to the account(s). Thoughts? Doc9871 (talk) 23:29, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

It's very likely. Just as a matter of curiosity, that IP geolocates to Geneva, Switzerland. -- Atama頭 23:50, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Weird: my geolocate must be off, as I'm getting Toulouse, France... Doc9871 (talk) 23:57, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

The one I use is Geobytes, I was turned onto it by other folks at Misplaced Pages who use it pretty often. I put my own private IP address into both tools, Geobytes said LA, while IP2Location said San Francisco. (Not sure which one is correct since I'm behind a proxy server here at work.) -- Atama頭 00:35, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's just great (sigh). Hundreds of miles away in both cases. As a non-admin with no "clue" (esp. the mysterious CU, which I'm in awe of), sometimes I'll look at the editing similarities deeply before performing a geolocate (and sometimes just the opposite); but I'm generally trusting the ability to accurately locate IPs less all the time, with cell phones and IP encryption and whatever else is around the corner. Digging into diffs can be better at identifying the problems: good, old-fashioned detective work is... fun. Question: since the IP ceased editing (assuming it's the same user, which I do), is this a case of "abusing multiple accounts"? Or simply the evolution of IP->Bad name->Registered user? I'm truly not sure if it meets the definition: any insight? Thanks for your help, Atama :> Doc9871 (talk) 01:07, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

There are no rules against editing under an IP. That's one of those "rights" that is vigorously defended on Misplaced Pages, as part of the "anyone can edit" goal. Even once you have a registered account there isn't any rule saying you can't edit under an IP, and it's not uncommon to see edits at some place like ANI where someone edits as an IP that you can be sure has a registered account but wants to remain anonymous (usually while saying something controversial). It also makes things difficult when you appeal to WP:SPI; if you have a registered user and one or more IPs editing an article in a similar manner and you want a Checkuser to determine if they're the same person to prove that they're trying to weasel their way around the three revert rule, they won't do that. The reason being that acknowledging a connection between an IP and an account is a violation of privacy. Only in rare cases will they do it. In such a case, and also in the case of Xyz231, we have to go by behavioral similarities to determine that they're the same person. But yes, it's essentially an evolution of IP -> Bad name -> Registered user. -- Atama頭 15:28, 16 September 2010 (UTC)

Even though I've got the {{Template:UserMandatorySignin}} userbox on my page, and that I was recently accused of "hounding" the IP(s) that I'm certain you're hinting at (at AN/I, right? ;>): I do fully respect and understand the "IP factor" and its considerable importance. Still learning, of course, esp. about the privacy thing! It's when IPs are abused that gets me "rankled", of course only because it's harder to combat vandals, trolls and their socks when they know the IP tricks. Thanks again, Atama :> Doc9871 (talk) 00:42, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Pop culture is like a box of chocolates

Sorry to open old wounds, but it could have been worse...I could have started humming the intro to Tom's Diner. --Jezebel'sPonyo 00:22, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

That's just evil. "Duh-duh-duh-duh"... Argh. -- Atama頭 00:26, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Gniniv's Retirement

Thank you so much for the encouraging message. Sometimes it seems like I can't make any headway against the tide. I am probably going to rejoin wikipedia as a new user, but User:Gniniv is permanently retired. I will take your advice when I do rejoin and look at another area of Misplaced Pages...--Gniniv (talk) 04:25, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

		Your Opinion is More Important than You Think Barnstar
		Thanks for the encouragement! Gniniv (talk) 04:25, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

I am glad to hear it. Misplaced Pages allows people to abandon an account and start anew per WP:CLEANSTART. I wish you luck, whether you come back here or decide to spend your time elsewhere. -- Atama頭 15:53, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Stop threatening and be polite

It has been noticed that you have joined Codf1977 in threatening me, which the Codf1977 has been doing quite sometime. I have already reported him to Admin for his distortion of article and use of language against me. Please stop accusing me of vandalism unless you introspect what I have been doing. Humaliwalay (talk) 05:19, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) See WP:DTTR, Humaliwalay. Especially when using "custom", poorly-spelled warning template "creations". Being polite is great, of course. Assume good faith... Doc9871 (talk) 05:26, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

• Atama, related to the above, I've just blocked Humaliwalay for 24 hours. They don't appear to have taken on board the advice or warnings given by Codf1977 or you. Since you're an involved admin I'd welcome your advice, changes to block length, etc. TFOWR 08:37, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

• I think it's fair. It's unfortunate that this short block doesn't seem to have gotten through to Humaliwalay because they are just calling the block unjust and accusing you of bias, but we'll see. -- Atama頭 17:44, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your intervention

I would say more but I do try to be WP:Civil Bellagio99 (talk) 20:16, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome, and I'm sorry this has been going on for so long, for years now. I hope that this is the end of it but we'll have to see. -- Atama頭 20:46, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Longevity of longevity

Due to misdirection arising from my confusing signature, I finally discovered and replied to Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2010-01-04/Longevity myths. :D Many thanks. Will notify Ryoung122 and based on what he said before it's up to him how to proceed. JJB 23:34, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

Sure thing, if you two want to have a mediation about it I can reopen the case. -- Atama頭 23:48, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

It's on! JJB 18:51, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for all your help so far, but I must warn you this will be a challenge to even the greatest informal mediator, not to mention yourself, which would be redundant. I believe edit warring has resumed and action should be expedited. JJB 19:57, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

friendly ping while you're in, but I'll be out for a bit. Looking forward to progress tonight. JJB 21:16, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry, I'm still involved, and had some text prepared but the volume of info on that mediation page has got me scrambling to keep up, so I need to take some time to rewrite what I was going to say. -- Atama頭 23:16, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

OK, bating my breath. JJB 00:09, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

AZ8196

See my comment at the bottom of the SPI page. Let me know if you have a problem with any of it before we archive this. Thanks! T. Canens (talk) 17:36, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Not at all, good ideas. Thanks. -- Atama頭 17:40, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Goldline International CoI Claim

A brand new editor, Chickeecheeze, with no other edits except to this article, suddenly appeared on Goldline International. As with the previous, now dormant editor I had flagged for review, this one edits only to accentuate the positive and minimize the negative. I believe that a PR Firm is editing this article on behalf of Goldline, and has learned and adapted by not using an obvious username for their next single-article editor after the first was found-out. I know I must always AGF, but editors with single-minded opinions and single-interests rarely appear sequentially, quickly, on barely trafficked articles. Abe Froman (talk) 21:01, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes one of the problems that arises in COI discussions is when an editor won't be open about the COI. I've seen more than a few cases where the behavior of the editor suggested a COI, yet they refused to clarify whether or not they were affiliated with the subject. There's no way to compel a person to answer such questions, since any disclosure of personal information is voluntary, and pushing too hard or getting too specific with questions can be considered outing or some other form of harassment. So you just have to let it go if they won't cooperate. There's nothing preventing you from asking Chickeecheeze whether or not they are affiliated with Goldline directly or has them as a client, but if they deny it or refuse to answer there's little you can do. Generally, the COI is incidental in any case, we only use COI determinations to judge whether or not an editor's actions warrant extra scrutiny or to guide us in a proper response to disruption. When an editor is violating WP:NPOV like some of these editors are (or are getting close to doing), its best to focus on what is wrong with their edits rather than what their affiliations might be. We don't ever block people for violating the COI guideline, but we do block people for continually inserting POV or spamming or violating copyrights. If you notice a great deal of similarity between the nature of their edits or peculiarities in communication, or anything else significant that suggests that multiple accounts are used by the same person, a sockpuppet investigation can be opened as well. -- Atama頭 21:20, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry

Hello, in my defense, I have never gone back and started using an old user account. I understood that on wiki you can leave at any time and rejoin at any time, and if you would like to rejoin wiki than you do not have to use your old user account. You can simply create a new one. I cannot believe that after the message Beyond My Ken sent to me, and after his report to the administrators that I'm some ridiculous sockpuppet, I can get accused of bad behavior. Look at my old Aj81964444 talk page and you will see that this was nothing more than a simple misunderstanding. I tried to be civil but Beyond my Ken felt otherwise. I removed myself from that account because I was so upset with Ken's message that I decided to be done with wiki. However, I had what you might call a change of heart and decided to rejoin but with a different user name a little more revealing. I am not mad at you and I appreciate what you have done but this situation has stirred me. Thank you and you're too generous, my contributions are small and may be okay but there is just so much work to do it seems. It's not that I don't have faith in the wiki society but there are alot and alot of fascinating events in history that tend to be overlooked. I merely like to shed some light on the forgotten. What I hope for the most for on wiki is to be left alone when it comes to these situations, I honestly do try and avoid confrontation on wiki which keeps me from editing alot of things but that's alright, as a said, history is never ending and never uninteresting, well at least that would be my opinion.--$1LENCE D00600D (talk) 05:06, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is totally a volunteer gig, and you can certainly come and go as you please. But hopping from account to account is frowned upon. It makes it very difficult to keep track of an editor's history. If you want to change your name, it's usually best to do so at WP:CHU (I did that once, I used to edit as "Atamasama" which was way too long for my liking). If you want to change accounts, there are ways to do so, seen at WP:CLEANSTART. As I said before to you, you haven't been disruptive, and I don't think you've done anything malicious, you just didn't understand the rules. If you do decide to change things again, please either request a different username (that preserves your editing history) or follow the Clean Start instructions. Thanks and I hope you enjoy helping improve the encyclopedia (even small fixes are helpful). -- Atama頭 16:06, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Barnstar!

		The Admin's Barnstar
		We really need all the help we can get at SPI. Thanks so much for helping out! T. Canens (talk) 06:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Also, might I suggest User:Timotheus Canens/massblock.js, User:Timotheus Canens/spihelper.js and User:Timotheus Canens/massedit.js? You might find these useful :) </spam> T. Canens (talk) 06:07, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the barnstar. I've noticed that SPI has been getting backlogged a few times so thought I'd help out a bit, and considering I've created enough SPI reports myself it would only be fair to give back. I'll try out those scripts also, thanks agian. -- Atama頭 18:21, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

SPI case

I have an analysis of the SPI case in response to your question (it runs long but hopefully is easy to follow). I wanted to spell out the results of my investigating. There are differences between the accounts, but also some similarities. Even if there's no connection between the accounts, the unsourced and unexplained fact changes raise some verifiability worries themselves. The seriousness of the issue with the confirmed socks elevates my concern. Thank you for taking the time to look into this. I think most shy away from the complex and long-running SPI cases like this. Shadowjams (talk) 06:48, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I glanced over it earlier, I'll give it another look later. Just to reiterate, even if the accounts are unrelated, the actions of Miguelg are still troubling to me. I also saw your post at ANI and plan to add to that as well. Thank you for getting back to me. -- Atama頭 18:23, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Please Restore Night Train (UVA Ultimate Team)

You recently deleted my college ultimate Frisbee team's Misplaced Pages page - Having just assumed the role of team vice president this year, I would like to update it and keep it as a record book and informal recruiting tool (our team website does link to it) - If there's anything else I need to do to request/help restore the site, please let me know

Thank you very much —Preceding unsigned comment added by Itoner90 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

I'll restore it, someone had asked for it to be restored earlier but they didn't give me the name of the actual article, and I've deleted so many there is no way I am going to remember the exact name of some article I deleted 5 months ago. :)

On the other hand, I doubt it meets our requirements for notability. I might bring the article to articles for deletion to discuss whether it should be formally deleted. Also, you can't use it as a recruiting tool or record book, Misplaced Pages is not a free web hosting site. The article can only contain material appropriate for an encyclopedia; factual, verifiable information. If you want a recruiting tool or a record book, keep that information at your team website. If the article is kept, it may be appropriate to link to your team web site from the article, however.

Finally, as the team's vice president, you have a conflict of interest in regards to the article. You aren't forbidden from editing the article, or other articles related to your team, but it is discouraged and if your edits are seen as disruptive you might face sanctions. In particular, try to avoid promoting your team, or trying to improve your team's image, and also be sure not to copy material from any other location (like a school web site or your team's web site). Thanks! -- Atama頭 18:39, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Nobody's business but

While snooping through contribution histories to find out what other Wikipedians are like, I further snoopily peeked at an outing and redaction case you handled this week. I noticed that redacting not only the edit history (which was done) but also the text itself of an edit on 12:18, 1 December 2008, by 173.32.49.208, might need further attention. If I'm mistaken of course just undo this comment! JJB 07:23, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I did miss it, but that stuff is subtle enough that I don't think it's a problem, also the other person in the conversation neither objected to anything the IP said nor denied it, and none of the stuff posted was an accusation, so I think it's harmless enough. I do appreciate you pointing it out however. -- Atama頭 23:34, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

COIN follow up

Hi Atama,

It has been some time since I turned to COIN for guidance and since we discussed changes to article Kresimir Chris Kunej and its COI tag. You kind of unoficially mediated the discussion on the talk page (I am very grateful for that). I am fully aware you are very busy and deal with many things, I am just curious how long the opportunity for editors to indicate issues with the article needs to last, and if and when the COI tag can be taken off. All issues indicated thus far seem to have been resolved to an extent, yet an editor still believes tag should remain while I do not. Thank you in advance for your reply. Turqoise127 18:28, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Well, you must have taken a long and deserved break. I wish to thank you for your truly even-handed and unbiased mediation of the COI tag issue above. While you were gone, another editor who frequents COIN decided to disregard your attempts at fairness, gutted the article (some felt inappropriately) and nominated for AfD. The article was deleted. I am no longer asking you for any help, or advice, I simply felt that you ought to know that maybe there are those who do not respect you or your opinions much within the project. Thank you again.Turqoise127 04:59, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Simplified English

Hi. I'm just wondering if you could give me some really brief feedback on whether I handled/explained things well, at Simplified English today, and what I could have done better. Edits are: , and . Much thanks. (reply here, or at the article's talk). -- Quiddity (talk) 18:05, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Some advice please

Hi there,

I've been trying to follow your advice of focusing on content rather than the editors and to be honest it has been doing me a lot of good. I find that I'm able to concentrate much better on considering the thrust of argument.

I was annoyed somewhat that Imalbornoz has recommenced his habit of pasting large walls of text from sources to shut down debate. However, I took a minute and actually had a look at some of the sources and then investigated them all thoroughly. I've just spent about 4 hrs going through them and I turned up something interesting. Imalbornoz has been misrepresenting what the source actually says, in some cases quite outrageously so. For example he claims that the Spanish Government calls Gibraltar a colony. Well I had a look at that source and it says no such thing, it refers to Gibraltar as a British Overseas Territory. Not only that but it refers to the self-government of Gibraltar but he claims it calls Gibraltar non self-governing.

Now I'm aware that misrepresenting sources is a serious matter on wikipedia but now I'm in quandary as to how to proceed. I don't as a rule seek admin intervention but in this case I feel I have to. Now I'm not asking you to put your admin hat on but rather give me advice as to how best to take this further. Is this something I should take to Arbitration Enforcement or should I proceed to AN/I? What concerns me is that the arbcom case will be raked up to muddy the waters and the matter won't be investigated properly, or I'll get caught in the backlash. I really am unsure what to do. Regards. Justin talk 21:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Dear Atama, I'm sorry that this issue has come to disturb you again. I would have commented with Justin before in his user page, but he explicitly banned me there about one year ago (and later vandalised my talk page to make it clear).

It's difficult to explain an editor's behaviour (even obsession) in a brief comment, so I'll just give some examples:

• He has entered again the Gibraltar article, warring with other editors .
• He falsely accuses me of "outrageously" (Justin dixit) misinterpreting sources making them say that (e.g.) the Spanish Government says Gibraltar is a "colony" and "non self-governing" when he has found out that they don't. Actually, you can check he is falsely accusing me:

• The source in Spanish which I proposed and which Justin -supposedly- has analysed (the report by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Spain explaining its official position on Gibraltar) shows the G of Spain calling Gibraltar a "colony" in pages 7, 9, 15 (for example) or the Parliament of Spain talking about "the colonial situation" of Gibraltar in page 37.
• You can see in page 14 that the GoS says "Gibraltar is a non self-governing territory ("no autónomo" in Spanish) undergoing the process of decolonisation".

• When I create a new article about a totally different subject (the inventor of epidural anesthesia)... he even comes by and accuses me of using partisan sources!
• The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick has even taken a wikibreak after (again) yet another confrontation with Justin.

I don't know if Justin is obsessed with Gibraltar, with myself & other users, or both. Anyway, I think someone should tell him to stop that behavior or he might be applied discretionary sanctions, as the ArbCom established: "Should Justin A Kuntz return to editing relating to Gibraltar following this period, he is reminded to edit in accordance with the principles discussed in this decision and will be subject to the discretionary sanctions remedy should he fail to do so."

Please, Atama, tell him something for his own good and for the good of other editors. -- Imalbornoz (talk) 11:29, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Apalon

Dear Atama, You were very kind in the past with taking time to explain that I should create an article about Apalon instead of MoveYourWeb. Apalon has received more press lately and thus the article becomes more notable. Some other editor moved the article from Apalon to Apalon (company) page replacing it with a reference to some village in Burma. In addition there is a suggestion to move article from Apalon to MoveYourWeb which doesn't make much sense because it's Apalon is notable not MoveYourWeb. Can you please take a look at those pages and help sorting it out.--Billystut (talk) 19:07, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Contested PROD

Please be advised that Shade Rupe, which you requested PROD for around three years ago, has been restored by user request. Feel free to AFD it if you wish. Stifle (talk) 10:55, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Market Dynamics

Dear Atama,

A previous submission titled "Market Dynamics" was deleted due to a lack of notoriety. This issue has now been remedied with two recent publications. I have enclosed links to these sources, and would appreciate your consideration in restoring the submission. If other changes are still required, I would be happy to review and adjust.

Regards, Josh Dayanim jdayanim@gmail.com

Source articles for reference:

1) Journal of Mathematics Research, February 2011 Market Dynamics: Bridging Security Price Movements and Classical Physics http://www.ccsenet.org/journal/index.php/jmr/article/view/8030

2) International Federation of Technical Analysts (IFTA) Journal 11, pages 50-53 Market Dynamics: Modeling Security Price Movements and Support Levels http://www.ifta.org/public/files/journal/d_ifta_journal_11.pdf

72.237.206.160 (talk) 15:01, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Deletion review : Ramesh Srinivasan

Hi - about a year ago, you proposed the article titled Ramesh Srinivasan to be deleted for the following reason -- (WP:PROD: Nominated for seven days with no objection: Concern was: Non-notable per WP:ACADEMIC, unreferenced.) I have created a much-improved version of this article with thorough citations, and further information on why Dr. Srinivasan is a notable academic. Here it is, on my user page http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Kairyth/RameshArticleTest I plan on submitting this new article to deletion review, but they recommend contacting the admin who deleted the page first. So here I am, contacting you. Please let me know if you will be able to un-delete this page. Thanks very much - Katherine Becvar (kairyth)

Kairyth (talk) 18:22, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

request to reverse deletion

Hi Atama,

I would like to request that the article "Deleteme" be reinstated. This was an expired PROD. Deleteme was one of the earliest groups on the photo sharing site Flickr--and is still one of the most notorious. There are so many groups on Flickr now--many of them with names like "dog, dogs, dogs!" but this one really truly is an original.

The section about the group "deleting" a photo by Henri Cartier Bresson is of particular value. I think. This was an online "event" that many people still talk about today--you find references to it in photogrpahy forms--it sparked a debate about the value of art critique, especially in an online era where anyone can be an "expert." (Here's an example: http://digital-photography-school.com/forum/general-chit-chat/63840-henri-cartier-bresson-photo-flickr-deleteme.html). Or Google "deleteme" and "Henry Cartier Bresson."

Anyway, I understand that these PRODs are routinely cleaned up after they expire but I also understand that requests to restore are typically granted if there was only one protest ... Hope you can help--thanks in advance.

70.42.57.137 (talk) 19:14, 23 March 2011 (UTC)Gienna Shaw giennawrites (at) gmail (dot) com www.flickr.com/gienna

I've restored this per the request. However, I doubt it will last long unless it has massive improvement. I still see no valid claim to notability. It might warrant a mention on the Flickr article but I doubt it. -- Atama頭 17:28, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

New Pages and New Users

I've recently been doing some thinking (and a great deal of consultation with Philippe and James at the WMF's community department) on how to keep new users around and participating, particularly in light of Sue's March update. One of the things we'd like to test is whether the reception they get when they make their first article is key. In a lot of cases, people don't stay around; their article is deleted and that's that. By the time any contact is made, in other words, it's often too late.

What we're thinking of doing is running a project to gather data on if this occurs, how often it occurs, and so on, and in the mean time try to save as many pages (and new contributors) as possible. Basically, involved users would go through the deletion logs and through Special:NewPages looking for new articles which are at risk of being deleted, but could have something made of them - in other words, non-notable pages that are potentially notable, or spammy pages that could be rewritten in more neutral language. This would be entirely based on the judgment of the user reviewing pages - no finnicky CSD standards. These pages would be incubated instead of deleted, and the creator contacted and shepherded through how to turn the article into something useful. If they respond and it goes well, we have a decent article and maybe a new long-term editor. If they don't respond, the draft can be deleted after a certain period of time.

I know this isn't necessarily your standard fare, but with your deletion work I thought it might be up your alley. If you're interested, read Misplaced Pages:Wiki Guides/New pages, sign up and get involved; questions can be dropped on the talkpage or directed at me. Thanks, Ironholds (talk) 21:05, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

I'll take a look, I've always put a lot of importance on welcoming new users so this is a particular interest of mine. I participated in the ill-fated NEWT project which put my RFA in jeopardy. I took an unplanned Wikibreak with no notice because I just couldn't take the time to volunteer with my work and personal life being so hectic, but I want to try to come back and help out if in a lesser capacity than before. Thanks for considering me. -- Atama頭 17:33, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Prendergast

Thanks for the little bit of extra looking you did, and for the pacifying advice you offered based on it. JohnInDC (talk) 23:49, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

My pleasure! -- Atama頭 23:49, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, thanks for you comments there - this is the best possible outcome for that situation. I am hopeful we'll see some improvement. The Interior (Talk) 02:49, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. And good to see you back Atama! :) -- œ 08:50, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Thank you, it actually feels really good to be back here again, even if in a limited capacity (I can't devote all that time to mediation for example). -- Atama頭 15:47, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Thanks (again). I'd apologize for throwing you to the wolves but I figure you can fend for yourself. Plus it might do some good, might, to hear concerns coming from an editor who has recently manifested patience and understanding. After my own patience reservoir has been replenished, I'm sure I'll be back! JohnInDC (talk) 00:07, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

LOL no worries, it's nothing. I've been hounded by sockpuppets and worse, and even once had a months-long mediation trying to settle a dispute regarding Lyndon LaRouche articles between two people, one of whom ended up secretly being a person working for the LaRouche organization and even posting from the organization's computers. :) -- Atama頭 00:16, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh, I know. I just appreciate the backup. I hadn't looked in on this after helping settle things down (or so I thought) in September and it's discouraging how much the same it was six months later. JohnInDC (talk) 00:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

WP:ANI Dr. Blofeld

Your comment duly noted for if this should happen in the future. Thank you &#0149;martyx&#0149; tkctgy 16:36, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

pleae explain why i am a troll

Atama, I was very offended by your imediate dismeasel of my post here:http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Conflict_of_interest/Noticeboard#unethical_behavior_of_a_linguistic. I looked under the definiton of troll and could not understand why did you considered me as one. I am a M.S in linguists and hold dearly for the subject. Shepit (talk) 16:58, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't feel the need to explain much further, I outlined everything very clearly at the noticeboard. If you insist that you're not, perhaps you can respond to what I said rather than simply saying that you're offended. Feel free to explain on my talk page if you wish, or at the noticeboard. -- Atama頭 17:09, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

By the way, I used "troll" as a verb (if you have a MS in linguistics you should know the difference), in the sense of being a prank or a joke. I referred to your post as a joke in the edit summary, and as a prank when I closed the notice. It wasn't meant to be an attack on you personally, but rather a reaction to what you had done. -- Atama頭 17:13, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

I have many things in response, but you close the disscution with a template, can you please remove it? Shepit (talk) 18:10, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Sure, I'm curious what you have to say. :) -- Atama頭 18:43, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

thank you, I will write a detailed response soonShepit (talk) 18:54, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Appreciate your perspective

Thanks for being a fresh eye on things. --Insider201283 (talk) 17:57, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

The Fantastic world

You deleted the page The Fantastic world. I have permission to use the content you flag and Its not an advertisement. Its a TV show on cable. if the links are a problem I can remove them but I thought wiki was a no follow thing.

please reinstall it ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by BrothersYoung (talk • contribs) 23:20, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Hello Matthew, I assume you are Matthew Young, one of the creators/actors of the show? Please know that Misplaced Pages is not the place for self-promotion. In addition, at least half of the article was a copy of the information found at this Wordpress article posted weeks earlier without permission or attribution, which is a copyright violation. Finally, your chosen username is in violation of our user name policy, so if you do wish to continue to edit Misplaced Pages I suggest you request a change of user name at the appropriate location. Thank you. -- Atama頭 00:32, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

FWIW

User:The REAL Dux never actually took responsibility for his legal threat. He still tried calling it a "perceived threat" and a misunderstanding. There is no misunderstanding when someone says "Escape Orbit & Niteshift36 identities to be disclosed so that I may hold them legally accountable". His dancing about how he just meant WP policy is not believeable when he was talking about "tortuous, unlawful acts that may include trade libel" etc. Thanks for initiating the SPI though. I hate doing thos things. Niteshift36 (talk) 00:51, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Oh yeah I know. But he wasn't blocked for a lack of civility or misbehavior, it was simply because he had threatened legal action. As long as an editor gives the impression that they will sue Misplaced Pages, its editors, or anyone else affiliated with the project as a result of on-wiki activity it creates a "chilling effect" where people might be reluctant to oppose the person making the threats. That is why we have a low tolerance for such things and routinely block people unless they recall the threat. We also routinely unblock them after they retract the threat, because at that point the "chilling effect" is gone since everyone is assured that no lawsuit will be forthcoming. Sandstein went so far as require him to state in exact terms that the threat was being revoked (which I think was proper) and the person claiming to be Dux did exactly that. I couldn't in good conscience let the block stand even though I was sure that unblocking him would not be in the project's best interest.

I don't mind filing a SPI case. Digging up diffs to present the case and trying to paint a picture as to why my sock-radar went off can take time and be a pain, but I've done it enough times that it's not that big of a deal for me anymore. If this pans out, there might be some sleepers uncovered as well.

By the way, by far my favorite sockpuppet case was this one. :) -- Atama頭 01:03, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

• That case was a hoot. I dunno, it just tweaks me when a guy who is questioning my integrity dances around taking responsibility by essentially lying and claiming we were all too dumb to understand. Niteshift36 (talk) 01:11, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

• Nothing really changed. That latest response is still him blaming me for the SPI and starting his talk about "defaming" him. There is a COI issue in a big way. When an allegedly new account starts talking about my "pattern of bad behavior", you know damn well he didn't go back through all the archives. If there isn't socking, there is a meatpuppet here. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:18, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of high school articles

Thanks for the clarification on speedy deletes. Is there a list/ article on what gets deleted/stayed. For example : what about colleges / security firms (just imagining). Thanks in advance Vinay84 (talk) 02:21, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

It's usually done on a case-by-case basis for most articles, but there is a list of what are called "common outcomes" which is derived from years of observation about deletion discussions. It works like precedent, except these aren't "officially" rules. In my experience, however, they might as well be rules. Frankly, I've never agreed with the idea that all high schools are presumed to be notable, but I've tried multiple times to have them deleted at articles for deletion discussions and they always get kept. Since consensus trumps almost anything else in Misplaced Pages, and the consensus is to keep high school articles, I go along with it. -- Atama頭 06:43, 30 April 2011 (UTC)

Matthew Dodd Productions

You have suggested that the importance of Matthew Dodd Productions is clearly asserted? I fail to see where. The article clearly does NOT credibly indicate the importance or significance of the subject as required. The article states it is an amateur game development company best known for a game that isn't out until 2012! Where is the importance? Can you elaborate on your thinking, cheersTeapotgeorge 18:40, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

There's an implicit assertion of significance, as a developer for an upcoming game. But, you know, I suppose that the fact that the game hasn't even been released yet, that's pretty weak. Also, I reread the discussion on the talk page of the article, and it's pretty obvious that there's no intention to develop the page any further. I went ahead and deleted it per A7. I stand by the removal of the tag on Run Wild: Zombies. There's almost zero chance of the article being notable, but it isn't advertising the game at all (there's no promotional language whatsoever in the article). I would put a proposed deletion tag on the article but clearly the author objects to its deletion so it's ineligible. It would be a good candidate for WP:AFD. I'd be happy to speedily delete that article, except it doesn't seem to meet any of our criteria. -- Atama頭 18:49, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I've taken it to WP:AFD though I think it could have been speedy deleted as advertising...you don't necessarily need promotional language for it to be an advert? Kind regardsTeapotgeorge 19:06, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thank you from CoolGamesNet I mean Green Home

I think I have made the Change Name request so now I begin again. I will begin in a Sandbox this time !

Again Thanks  —Preceding unsigned comment added by CoolGamesNet (talk • contribs) 19:06, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

You're very welcome, good luck and I'll try to be available if you have any questions. -- Atama頭 19:22, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

How will I find out that my username is now changed ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by CoolGamesNet (talk • contribs) 20:27, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I believe a note will appear on your talk page. You'll also see that when you go to your user page, it will be redirected to your new user name. Lastly, it probably won't let you log in under your CoolGamesNet name anymore. Just a note, I checked over at WP:CHU/S where your request is, and it looks like you mixed up a couple of entries on your request. I left a note explaining everything but you might have to change it yourself for the request to be accepted. You just need to put your user name (CoolGamesNet) after where it says "1=", and replace "please state a reason" with the reason why your name has to be changed (you can simply say you were blocked because of your user name previously). -- Atama頭 20:40, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Sket One

Hi. You deleted the artist page "Sket One" which I worked really hard on on behalf of the artist. Exactly what is the difference between an artist profile and biography and advertising? It seems the wiki gods blur the lines between them and delete willy-nilly. Please justify this as both myself and the artist in question are hurt by this deletion without any actual discussion, despite me contesting this on the contesting page. There was a lot more information on his page compared to artists he has worked with who have NOT been deleted, is that the problem?! --Catxx (talk) 19:30, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

The article was written with entirely promotional language. There was almost no portion of that article that wasn't laudatory of Sket One. I strongly suggest you read other biographical articles on Misplaced Pages to see what kind of tone an encyclopedia article should have. WP:WORDS is a good guideline to review as well. Just to give you some specific examples from the article in question:

• he put down his artistic roots as a graffiti artist starting in 1986 as hip-hop swept the country - It's better to simply say he started his art work in 1986.
• Sket soon found himself honing his skills and leveraging them into commercial design opportunities - This phrase serves no purpose whatsoever, as the following sentence illustrates that he started commercial work.
• Sket’s career took a big public step forward - Another example of opinionated writing scattered throughout the article.
• The revolutionary idea that individual artists could be featured on toys produced in extremely limited numbers offered an enticing opportunity. - I shouldn't even have to explain this.

I could go on like this for awhile, but suffice to say this kind of language is in every part of the article. The article looked like it was written by a press agent.

Another suggestion is to review WP:NPOV. One of Misplaced Pages's core policies is that we avoid adding opinion or commentary in articles, or trying to slant an article to a particular point of view. This is true of every article in the project. Opinions can be mentioned, if they are relevant quotations and have a provided source. For example, saying that someone had a revolutionary idea is not permitted. If a notable magazine states that a person had a revolutionary idea, you can quote the magazine saying so. Of course, depending on context such a quotation might not be appropriate either, it varies from case-to-case (as do most editorial decisions).

The usual response when an article contains what is commonly referred to as "puffery" is to fix the article. However, if the article has to be fundamentally rewritten, it is usually deleted, see Criteria for Speedy Deletion. In my opinion, that was the case here. I don't always make such a decision, see just above on my talk page where someone else protested my decline of a speedy deletion for an article that I felt wasn't overly promotional. -- Atama頭 19:49, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Would it not have been a better idea to post this in the Sket One user talk thing rather than just deleting it to give me a chance to re-write the article? It wasn't written by me and was written by someone else (WHO WAS A PRESS AGENT) to promote him and I was in the PROCESS of altering it. Deleting the article entirely doesn't help me alter it now does it? It just hurts feelings - these pages are about REAL people with REAL families excited about these prospects, it's more than just text on a precious little page! Please reinstate the page and allow me to alter it to the wikigods wishes so that it may stay online. Sket works on drawing pretty pictures. I know wiki language. Neither of us are authors. How about giving us a break rather than leaning so heavily on the delete button? --Catxx (talk) 19:58, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

If you want to improve it, that's fantastic. What I've done is moved the article to Misplaced Pages:Article Incubator/Sket One. By placing it in the Article Incubator, it will give yourself and anyone else a chance to work on the article without it being tagged with another speedy deletion request while you are improving it. When you feel it's ready, you can add an assessment tag per these instructions to get it restored back into main space. Keep in mind that the article isn't completely immune to deletion this way, but it's much less likely for that to occur than if it was still in main space. If you have any questions please let me know, thank you. -- Atama頭 20:15, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

(The author posted a message on my talk page prior to the article's deletion... I feel obligated to respond and hope you don't mind if I jump in here.) I don't mean to sound callous, but feelings aren't really an issue here. Scores of biographical articles are created and deleted everyday and deletion is often a necessary course of action. As you state that you wrote the article "at the request of the artist himself" and that it was based on the work of a press agent, there is a clear issue of WP:NPOV, and that is evident in the highly laudatory and POV tone that is rampant in the article. To be frank, I chose not to delete the article and deferred to another administrator because I was assuming good faith and hoping you would rewrite it, but given the comments above, I have to agree with the deletion at this time. As the article is in the incubator, I would work on editing the article and showing why the subject of the article is notable as an artist using reliable sources and more neutral language. Right now, the article really fails to assert notability, contains little to no actual sourcing, and reads like a promotional piece. I would suggest following the advice given above. --Kinu /_c 20:49, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Kinu. I considered writing a similar response, but figured, heck if you want to fix it, here's your chance, nuff said. Also, this is my first time using the Incubator and wanted to see how it worked anyway. -- Atama頭 20:55, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

The subject isn't wiki-friendly. He's happiest with pen and ink and not such technical things. As I run my own independent toy-wiki away from wikipedia, he approached me to help him out. Dead artists I imagine have no such issues! And I'm glad I don't have to deal with wikipedia very often. Much easier to moderate my own wiki with less red tape. --Catxx (talk) 21:10, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

It's also a lot easier to write articles about dead artists, since we don't have WP:BLP issues to worry about (the "L" stands for "Living" after all). ;) -- Atama頭 21:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I am unsure how to set the article to evaluate, it goes on about editing the template, which I am unsure about. --Catxx (talk) 21:26, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I can add the template if you want. Now, I have some reservations still about the article. Really, my reservations are only in regards to a couple of places where language is still a bit "fluffy" and some minor issues going against our manual of style (references before periods instead of after them, external links in the body of the article, etc.). But the article itself is much improved. If you want, I can add some fixes myself. However, if I do so I would be a contributor to the article and could not perform the assessment myself to take the article out of the Incubator. I'd also feel compelled to no longer act as an administrator at the article. There's nothing stopping me from doing it on my own initiative, but I'm offering to help you with the article so I'd like to know how (or if) you want my help. (If you don't want it at all, that's fine too, I'd understand.) -- Atama頭 22:01, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

If you can point out the parts that don't match up to guidelines I would appreciate it. I don't see the problem with the references? By "period" do you mean a full stop? In the UK a period is a woman's time of the month... The external links can be removed, they are just for companies that will probably never be added here. I will look into suggestions tomorrow. --Catxx (talk) 22:10, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

LOL it means that in the US too (which has led me to some bad puns in the past), but yes in this case I mean full stops (I was even going to use that phrase, but most people in the US don't know what that means). I can't find the exact guideline where it suggests to do that, but if you look at WP:CITE you'll see numerous examples. To clarify what I mean, see this:

• Fred is generally considered to be a terrible person.
• Fred is generally considered to be a terrible person.

The second example is what we try to do. I think most editors just feel it looks better not to shove punctuation over like that. The same goes for any kind of punctuation, see the following examples where a citation comes before punctuation when it should come after:

• Fred used to eat kittens when he was younger, but now he eats human children.
• Fred has no problem with drinking alcohol to excess; he is quite successful at it.
• When Fred stated that he "never killed a man in cold blood" it was later proven to be a lie.

I hope that clarifies what I mean about full stops and citations. Also, WP:EL is the guideline we use for external links, you can use that for guidance. -- Atama頭 22:32, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I think I got them all? --Catxx (talk) 20:11, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

You've done a really good job cleaning it up. I would certainly not delete the page as promotional in this state. So now we get to another issue... Notability. As you should know, every article in Misplaced Pages needs to follow inclusion criteria, and usually the biggest hurdle for inclusion is notability. Not every subject merits inclusion, and the general guideline is that a subject needs to be given significant coverage by multiple reliable sources. As the article stands now, I don't see it. Almost every reference given is to a blog site, commercial site, or Flickr, none of which are considered reliable sources. The news channel interview is an exception, that's the kind of coverage that Misplaced Pages tends to look for. On its own, it wouldn't be enough to establish notability, but combined with more you might be able to. I took it upon myself to look up coverage myself and came up empty, but you may have access to material I haven't found.

Another consideration is that we have some specific guidelines for the notability of people. Artists are covered under WP:ARTIST. There you'll see other ways to show that a person is notable. Unfortunately, proving that Sket One satisfies any of those criteria will also require reliable sources, but again I hope you can come up with something. The best kind of source would be something like a newspaper article, a book that talks about Sket One at length (rather than just including some of his work), or maybe a review from an art journal or magazine. You'll notice the template at the top of the page has a collapsible "toolbox", which helps you search for sources for the subject. This is because notability is always a factor for articles.

I'm not trying to create obstacles for this article. This is the same inclusion process every article on Misplaced Pages goes through. Personally I think that the Sket One toys look pretty cool and he seems to be a talented artist. But we have objective criteria for every article. Right now, to move the article out of the Incubator, I would have to fill out an assessment template, you can see the template here. Where it asks for an assessment of notability, I would have to say for now that it fails, and where it asks for verifiability, it would succeed in having references and no original research, but fail in having reliable sources. The last part, asking about neutrality, I would say it definitely passes (thanks to the work you did).

If you want someone else to independently assess the article to get an opinion other than mine, there is an option to do so. I can even do it for you if you like, I just add "status=eval" to the template code and it will show up as requesting evaluation. Just a warning though, the article will be pass-fail, and if the article fails assessment it generally gets taken to Miscellany for Deletion for other editors to discuss whether or not the article merits inclusion, and depending on the discussion it might be deleted.

Anyway, just let me know if you are able to come up with anything. You can also ask for help at a Wikiproject. Wikiprojects tend to have people who have a lot of experience developing articles of particular types, and they may know the best way to find notability for a particular kind of subject. One project that might help is Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Toys. There's a general directory for arts and culture here but I had trouble finding anything relevant. (There is a Wikiproject for sculpture but it has been inactive for years.) If you need more help please let me know, thank you. -- Atama頭 21:03, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Hmm. That's a shame. To me the big toy blogs (many of which have been going 8-10 years plus) ARE notable, in fact in toy circles, getting a write up or interview on some of these blogs is a big thing. They are read by thousands of kids around the world. These aren't just written by kids, they are also sponsors and hosts of shows, get their own exclusive toys etc. It's a shame the wikigods don't see that in this day and age those ARE the newspapers! The rags of newspapers you get these days don't consider you an artist unless you've done some rubbish for a Turner prize. The only coverage graffiti artists like Sket would get would be someone whinging they wanted it painted over off a wall somewhere. There are only one or two magazines that even cover this subject (one of which hasn't had a new magazine out for 2 years). It is the wiki criteria that means you will miss out on over 1,500 otherwise influential artists in the huge world that is toy/art figures and customs. I've been to opening shows in London in small rooms with over 200 people crammed in spilling out into the streets, 2 hour queues to get in even, clamouring for art, and yet only toy/art blogs will do any coverage of these shows. I'll ask Sket if he's had any other interviews that weren't with toy art related blog sites, but it is unlikely, it's this art world that loves these guys, outside doesn't give a damn! In fact it's only started going "mainstream" in the last 3 years. --Catxx (talk) 07:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

I've added a couple more references. --Catxx (talk) 11:56, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Were they any better? --Catxx (talk) 11:33, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Welcome Back

Only just noticed you're editing again. Welcome back. Wee Curry Monster talk 19:39, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks WCM. (I assume you don't want anyone to refer to your old name anymore.) I'm back on a "part-time" basis, I couldn't stay away from Misplaced Pages forever but I can't be here for hours every day either. I'm also staying away from mediation, I loved doing it but it was a huge time sink for me. Maybe if one day I become independently wealthy and don't need a 9-5 job any more I'd have time for it again, I can dream, huh? -- Atama頭 19:51, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

User:Ebrahimi-amir

Could you have a look at User talk:Boing! said Zebedee (section called Two Things) and User Talk:Ebrahimi-amir where I've posted the results of some digging? Thanks. Peridon (talk) 19:25, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Helloooo

Very nice to see you're working again. Welcome back.(olive (talk) 22:40, 5 May 2011 (UTC))

Hey Olive, thank you. I'm back part-time, at least I'm not as active as before, but I'm around now. :) -- Atama頭 22:41, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Our Red Hot Romance Is Leaving Me Blue Page

Wow! So, speedy deletion I guess was the choice. Guess it really doesn't matter that I contested it. And it's so nice to know that even though I contested it, explained everything, and without even getting an answer, my page was deleted anyway. Did you even read my reply to the Speedy Deletion tag on the talk page? Or just delete the page? This is terrible. This was my very first time EVER doing anything on Misplaced Pages and I did it for a class, no less, and then just like that, it's gone! Thank God it was already graded considering it was only up for 4 days!!!! I doubt I'll ever do anything on here again. It has been a terrible experience, much less about community, helpfulness, collaboration and learning than I expected. TheLibraryLady (talk) 03:46, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I did actually. Your reply did nothing to defend the article's state, nor did you offer any interest in improving the article. In fact, your comment that there was little more to add to the article helped me make the decision to delete it. I'm sorry if you've felt that the experience was terrible, and I sympathize. I've spent hours trying to improve at least dozens of articles that were eventually deleted. But once I understood Misplaced Pages's inclusion criteria, I came to understand why the articles were deleted, and at the very least the effort I had made gave me a lot of experience that has been helpful. I have had over 2,400 edits that were deleted, and while not all of them were from attempting to improve an article that was deleted, a good number were. I hope that this experience doesn't provoke you to leave Misplaced Pages forever, but if so, I am sorry to see you go and wish you well at whatever interest you take outside of the project. -- Atama頭 05:16, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

ANI thread on Bill Huffman

ANI thread on Bill Huffman, if you have any comment on what you experienced when you tried to deal with this editor last year. Cla68 (talk) 07:55, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Hi Atama, my Bill Huffman account has apparently been blocked. That account has not been used to edit article or article talk space in a very long time. Contrary to your assertions on the ANI page, I have never used a sock account to try to decieve or try to get around any wiki rules. Cla68 is once again twisting wiki to attack other people. For example he previously lied to ArbCom about a webpage I have. He lied that I made claims on the page about Warren National University simply so he could get me blocked from editting that article. Cla68 is an excellent editor. However, it appears that when someone complains about another Misplaced Pages editor on Misplaced Pages Review then Cla68 sometimes goes into attack mode against that editor on Misplaced Pages. I would like to try to defend myself against Cla68 but I can't really do that as long as my account is blocked. Of course, if none of this matters to you then I apologize for bothering you and wish you a good day. Regards, 98.155.23.219 (talk) 19:03, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

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