Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 19:54, 14 March 2006

Hi Pecher! Nice to meet you here!

Thank you for finding the time to sign up and contribute to our project. If you're in doubt about anything, you might want to check out some of these pages:

• Welcome, newcomers - a general introduction, and a good starting point
• The help centre and FAQs
• The Manual of Style - a guide to the community's writing conventions

It's also a good idea to sign the new user log and add a little about yourself.

When contributing to a talk page, you can sign your name by typing four tildes after your comments, like this: ~~~~. (Just so you know, some people won't pay attention to unsigned comments).

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask me at my talk page. You can ask other users at the Help desk or Village Pump.

Above all, make sure you be bold when contributing, and have fun!--AndriyK 18:57, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Nice Job on Ukraine!

I appreciate how you organized it. If you wish, we could work together to expand this list and clean it up a bit. My Username is User:HotelRoom. Give me a chime whenever you want me to write an article, add more names etc. 72.144.71.229 08:10, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

List of Ukrainians

Hi, Pecher. I see somebody continuously removes non ethnic Ukrainians from the list. I would suggest adding a definition on the top of the page. Something like "This list includes people of different ethnic descent who were born and/or spent essential part of their lives on the theritory of the present day Ukraine as well as the people of Ukrainian diaspora". Or something similar. Otherwise people will continue deleting because of misinterpretation of the word "Ukrainain". If the proble will persist even after the definition is added, please let me know.--AndriyK 10:19, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Grigorenko/Hryhorenko

Hi Pecher, I reverted your move of Grigorenko to Hryhorenko as per follows. Yes, he IS an ethnic Ukrainian and be him a modern politician of Ukraine or smth like this, he would have certainly be called Hryhorenko in English, like we are using Ukrainian spellings for Volodymyr Lytvyn, Petro Poroshenko, Oleksandr Moroz, etc.

Hryhorenko, however, entered the world news long time ago and, justly or not, he is called Grigorenko by the world media. You can conduct a google test and see the difference in usage. Our job, at encyclopedia, is not to "promote" the "correct" usage but to reflect the prevailing usage and the prevailing usage is determined by the English language media. May I suggest that before moving articles, you propose the move first and wait a little bit for responses in the future? Thanks! --Irpen 17:37, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks again for your email. I just want to add to my response that there exists a Ukraine portal at Misplaced Pages, created my several Ukrainian editors (myself included) who take interest in the topic. Despite being called "anti-Ukrainian" by fringe nationalists like AndriyK and Andrew Alexander, I do love my country and wrote much for many topics before having to deal with Andriy's mess started to take up so much of my time but this would be over soon, I think. Please see my user page if you would like to read and correct my articles. There was a lively, although small, community of Ukrainian editors here of which myself and user:Mzajac where the most active ones. Also, largely thanks to user:Sashazlv we even have one Featured Article in en-wiki on a Ukrainian topic (the Hero of Ukraine). We often had differences over issues with our eastern and western neighbors,who write mostly from their national perspective while I, for instance, write from a moderate Ukrainian one. However, we always resolved the differences in cordial discussions and were able to come up with the reasonable solution.

In any case, I would like to welcome you again and feel fee to ask or email if you have any questions. --Irpen 09:38, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Portal

Hi, I noticed you tried to improve portal's layout. You are welcome to do so. However, please note that the layout depends on the type of the browser and even the skin type selected in the user preferences. Also, for whatever reason changes made in Portal's space are often not visible immediately. This is probably some server cash issue which does not affect the articles' space. Anyway, good luck and don't hesitate to get your hands on this. I just wanted to let you know that it is more difficult than it seems. Also, you may check portal's talk at Portal_talk:Ukraine for the history of how people worked on it. Good luck, --Irpen 21:45, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

RFC on User:Antidote

Hello, I believe this person was responsible for mass voting on Catholic, Jewish and Serbs articles and numerous other disruptions including arbitrarily changing population numbers and removing people from lists dating back to March, see Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Antidote and Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Antidote/Contribution_table and Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Antidote/User_comments. I would appreciate if you could endorse the request for comment at Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Antidote#Other_users_who_endorse_this_summary, Regards, Arniep 15:37, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

Note: this is Arniep's spam (see Special:Contributions/Arniep) to rally against me because of personal reasons. Our dispute together is separate from this and can be resolved in List of Ukrainians/Talk. Antidote 21:02, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

I forgot to mention this user is the same as User:HotelRoom who also contacted you above and tries to push the same point of view on List of Ukrainians. I would appreciate your input on the rfc. Thanks Arniep 15:18, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks I see you just endorsed the rfc. I will be placing more evidence on it regarding the user's behaviour on the Ukrainian and other lists. Regards, Arniep 15:25, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your help on the rfc. Antidote responded to your message on Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Antidote#Response:

Um. If you would have read clearly, you would have seen I stated "I have made sure that Germans were deleted from the Poles list" not that I have deleted them. If you don't believe me I'll happily show you the email I sent User:HotelRoom asking for this to be done. Nice try though. Antidote 21:44, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Will user Antidote produce this email? I don't think so. Arniep 23:52, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Go here User talk:Antidote and ask for it. Antidote 05:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Ukrainians and Poles

I'm not sure what else I can do to convince you of the inclusions and exclusions on these lists. I would like to specifically know why you are so adament about including Ukrainian-born Poles in the Ukrainians list and Polish-born Germans in the Polish list when they indubitably do not belong there for the reasons I outlined. Perhaps through a lengthy discussion we can reach a conclusion. To keep consistency, lets hold the entire discussion on Talk:list of Ukrainians. Antidote 08:43, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_comment/Antidote and User:Zordrac/Poetlister

I note that you are involved in the above RfC. Please see my sub page for evidence of the entirety of the dispute and related issues. Zordrac (talk) Wishy Washy Darwikinian Eventualist 12:50, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

Re: User:Antidote

Hi, if User:Antidote is evading blocks, you report it on WP:AN/I. Antidote's block is over now, so there's little point in reporting it. If he evades a block again, report your suspicions there. Izehar 21:22, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

No you didn't. 3RR violations should be reported at WP:AN/3RR and evasion of blocks should be reported at WP:AN/I. on AN/I they have IP checking tools normal admins such as myself don't have and will be able to deal with the problem more effectively. As it says at the head of WP:AN/I: This page is for reporting and discussing incidents that require the intervention of administrators, such as blocked users evading blocks. Izehar 21:36, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

No, WP:3RR is fine.

• If someone violates the 3RR, you report it on WP:AN/3RR
• If someone is evading a block, you report it on WP:AN/I

Izehar 21:51, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

С Новым Годом!

. --Irpen

Jewish lists and categories

Hello, I have made a compromise proposal at Wikipedia_talk:Centralized_discussion/Lists_by_religion-ethnicity_and_profession#Proposal_to_make_Jewish_lists_and_categories_historical_only. Regards Arniep 22:58, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Re: List of Ukrainians

I won't protect the page again, until another edit-war occurs. Protected pages are a bad thing and should only be used when there is a serious problem. So far, the edit-war has not resumed; I'll be watching the page though. I don't think that Howcheng's unprotecting the page was admin abuse - Antidote asked him to do it saying that there is a consensus. Howcheng probably WP:AGFed. Izehar 11:51, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Do you think you could comment on what's going on at Talk:List of Ukrainians - we're trying to sort this thing out. Izehar 23:26, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Re: Ali Sina vote

Hi Pecher. Thanks for the note. Sorry about that. Cheers -- Szvest 18:55, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages talk:Centralized discussion/Lists by religion-ethnicity and profession

You seem to have misinterpreted my comments at the above page. I have attempted to correct the misunderstanding. I regret to inform you that I found your comment left me with the belief that you assumed bad faith on my behalf, something which saddens me. Please be assured I meant no such meaning as you inferred in my words, and I hope you can accept that statement and this one in the good faith they are made. Steve block talk 14:15, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Metro

Thanks for the addition to Kiev Metro. If you are interested there is a whole portal being constructed in Ru-wiki and I was hoping for a while to launch one here in en-wiki. Also please do not remove Russian headings, as regardless of present situation, they were official names for the lines up to 1992. Also remember that all the cities in Ukraine with rapid-transit are Russophone.--Kuban kazak 18:52, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Kiosks

Have you never been in a metro or a city subway in Kiev or any other Eastern European city? Not that I blame you but that is such a common sight everywhere that it is really rediculuos to ask for sources. If you insist, --Kuban kazak 20:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Regarding second line of Islamic extremist terrorism...

See following: United Kingdom , Australia , Canada , France , New Zealand , the United States , Germany , the Netherlands , Russia , Spain and Saudi Arabia Organization of the Islamic Conference .

It would obviously not be practical to list all of these but it is point well-supported. Marskell 13:49, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

The first line already states that some Muslims support it (i.e., "supporters and practicioners"). This isn't balance--it's an attempt at POV. Where is your source incidentally? Marskell 14:09, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Yo; shoot me some email...

...at mike18xxyahoo.com--Mike18xx 01:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Dhimmi

I'm taking a break from the article; my best, kindest efforts have been rebuffed; my lightheartedness has been called an insult. User:Mike18xx doesn't seem to want to calm down. You seem to get along with him, though; do you think you could get him to write up the section on "dhimmitude" and modern usage of "dhimmi"? Or could you? I'm asking because I don't have any appropriate sources. --Mgreenbe 12:32, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Zdrastui! I learned Russian first as a summer course at Indiana University. Must have been...2000? I also went to St. Petersburg for the summer of 2003 for the prazdniki. The Technion is also full of Russians, so I'm still getting my fill. Russians here in Israel seem much more interested when they find out I speak Russian. But I suppose I'm less of an invader here than there. The Russian stranger/friend dichotomy seems very stark; this, too, might explain why Russians I was forced to spend time with (in ulpan) are so much more friendly.

Relaxing trivia: your wikiname, in ancient Egyptian, means "turned" or "flipped". Ptr-wr (pronounced "Pecher wear") means "turned greatly", which is the name for the Tigris and Euphrates. Why? Because they flowed the wrong way!

I think putting the term in is very useful, as it serves to show the history of the usage: dhimmi as the Sharia-law dhimma, dhimmitude as the dhimmi mentality, and then abuse of the word dhimmi itself. --Mgreenbe 13:29, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

My best former-CIS friends all do come from Russia; the rest are Ukrainian. I do, in fact, have some Russian (well, Litvak on the Poland/Russia border) ancestry...I don't know if Russians in Russia could tell that I'm Jewish. My brother and I were often mistaken for Georgians (dark hair, different face, funny clothes). --Mgreenbe 14:07, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi; I'm not really very good at mediation. The people at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Cabal seem to do a good job. I'll keep an eye on the page and do what I can. Tom Harrison 15:18, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

• the admin who protected the page has a history of"protecting" just after a massive change makes the page favorable to islam/arab suppoerters. he did this in other articles. Zeq 17:30, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

• can you e-mail me ? Zeq 19:14, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Heh; well, not kidding exactly, but maybe indulging in hopeful exaggeration. Truthfully though, I have seen worse. Hopefully it won't get to the point of having to lock the page. Sometimes it helps to draw in a few more editors, maybe through a request for a third opinion. Best, Tom Harrison 20:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Kafir

There is still no concensus on it uptil now. Secondly , if Goy & Nastik isnt similar to Infidel , same is the case with kafir . If one is removed from there , all should be treated in the same way . Cheers . F.a.y. 14:35, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I dont see any reason for linking Kafir from Infidel page either . When both words are very different from eachother . F.a.y. 14:57, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

People of the Book changes

Discuss a reason for a major change on the talk page before you make it. As I have said, my version is a slight modification of the 26 January version. If "slight" is too much for you then fine, revert back to the 26 January version, but your version and Mike's version are major changes. Discuss the reasons for doing so on the talk page. As a result, I have reverted back to Yuber's version. joturner 22:29, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I made another reply in Talk:People of the Book. joturner 03:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Death penalty

Hi, I've seen on your user page that you're both a Muslim and you oppose death penalty. Does that mean that you also oppose death penalty in coutries implementing sharia in cases like apostasy from Islam? Or, for example, when a non-Muslim kills a Muslim?--Pecher 12:01, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Contrary to popular belief, it is possible for me to oppose the death penalty but still uphold Sharia. In Islam, although the death penalty is allowed, it is not required. It is permissible for and encouraged that one forgive the perpetrator or commute the punishment to one of lesser severity. I do not think the death penalty is correct because flaws do exist within the justice system; the death penalty cannot be reversed if one is convicted wrongfully. Ending someone's life is ending someone's life no matter what the rationale. Although all "Islamic" countries use the death penalty, I believe that less harsh punishments should be used. That viewpoint still conforms with Sharia.

For more, see About.com, Submission.org, and Capital punishment#Islam and capital punishment. joturner 15:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Dhummy

User:Dhummy is yet another sockpuppet of the banned User:Wik, one of many. So was User:Dhimmi. They've been blocked. Jayjg 21:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Sir Arthur Wellington

In regard to your question on my talk page, this user's last contribution was at 20:35 UTC, where as the warning message was left at 20:40 UTC. Feel free to check for yourself at Special:Contributions/Sir_Arthur_Wellington and User_talk:Sir_Arthur_Wellington. I will continue to keep an eye on this user for a few hours just to make sure the vandalism doesn't continue. Thanks. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns) 22:06, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Jihad Watch

The concept of citations is dependent on inserting the views of people not related to the topic at hand. Take for example, the article on the Israel & Palestine situation may include a view from Alan Dershowitz or Noam Chomsky. They are notable in the field. Now if the topic was chewing gum, I would agree that their views are not important, and any view they hold should exclusively be held either on the chewing gum article or on their respective article. Now Jihad Watch is a website that is essentially anti-Islam. A view on it by CAIR is relavent to the topic at hand. They are clearly notable. I also don't understand by you directed me towards WP:NOT. Pepsidrinka 15:13, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Edward Said

I find your actions on the Orientalism page regarding Said to be incomprehensible. I can only assume you have some unexpressed ideological reason for trying to suppress the reference to his Palestinian identity (as the above discussion of your deletions on "Jihad Watch" seems to confirm). You know very well that he identified as a Palestinian and that he was a Palestinian activist. "Palestinian" in this context is an ethnic identity, not a national one, and it is transparently relevant to Said. Paul B 09:28, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

It is not his birthplace as such that is most important, but his ethno-cultural identity. It is entirely relevant to topic for obvious reasons. His book is largely about western attitudes to the Middle-East. Western attitudes to "the east" is the subject of the article. This is a very concise way of signalling his particular viewpoint. Paul B 09:50, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Said defined himself as a Palestinian, and is generally identified as such. There is no good reason to reject this identity. The daftest thing about your interventions is that you are trying to suppress a piece of information that actually functions to identify Said's own bias. If you insist on calling him "American" you imply that his attacks on Western culture are not related to his own cultural identity. It makes him seem more objective than he is. By identifying him as Palestinian we place his attacks on Lewis (an anglo-Jewish scholar) in a context that you are helping to obscure. Paul B 22:45, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I just can't stand disingenuousness. I much prefer people who are open about their own concerns. Hiding behind the mechanics of policy statements is really counterproductive, as it cripples honest debate about real issues. You are not being objective, as anyone who looks at your edit history can see. Paul B 23:34, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Your continuous reverts on Edward Said article are clearly politically motivated. I agreed to leave the content related to Weiner even though it is recognised as being a baseless attacks on Said. Regarding the continuous removal of Said being Palestinian this is just ridicule. It is stated down the article that he was a high ranking member of the PLO at some point of his life. I will be happy to discuss constructive comments. Hkm, 28 February 2006 (UTC).

second-class citizen

Could you explain what changes you were trying to make regarding the article? It seems that there is a disagreement about what claims of second-class citizenship were/are legitimate. Thanks. Ngchen 00:11, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Palestinian exodus

I see that you have just now begun to address a few points in the discussion, but these were not there when you first filled the article with tags yesterday and then again today. For example, until a few minutes ago, there was no explanation for why the section on the 'Nakba in the Palestinian narrative' had a tag. Be mindful of indiscriminate use of tags, if there are more than a reasonable enough number of tags in the article, it becomes more appropriate to just add a main tag to the top instead. So don't worry, I did read the discussion, and what is there now was not there when I reverted. Ramallite 18:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, I think what would indeed be 'better' would be to fix these sections instead of labeling them. What is different about this article is that it is a summary of actual books written by historians (namely Morris) and as such, most of what you labeled is actually derived from these books as opposed to websites that one can just link to. I am hoping the authors of these sections will add a 'reference' section to the end where most of the material comes from. In other places, citations will be provided. Ramallite 18:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1122425,00.html

Request for Deletion

You need to put up a request for deletion if you really want the Abrahamic religions article to be deleted. joturner 22:28, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Sockcheck

Sorry, I don't have CheckUser. You can post a request on Misplaced Pages:Requests for CheckUser if you want, but I don't recommend it unless there's evidence of abuse - double voting, evading a block, etc. Tom Harrison 19:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

article

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2058502,00.html

vote

Hello, your vote here would be welcome Christophe Greffe 19:22, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello Pecher ! Thank you for your kind comments ! I tried to gather quotes as honnestly as possible. There is at each time a link to the author, it is shortly described in relation with a potential bias or absence of bias, and each quote can be check directly... :-). I woulg suggest you write you add your vote in the list because else the article will simply be deleted and not merged. Thank you. Christophe Greffe 06:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

said

http://www.secularislam.org/articles/debunking.htm

Wik

Yes, of course it Reviraz is Wik. Jayjg 00:26, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

facinating to watch

http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null

could not figureout who she is ?

I think a transcript would be usefull. some quotes could fit in here ?

an indirect interest in Islam-related articles

Hey Pecher. I try not to let the bullies get to me. But I'm not on a crusade against Islamists or anything. I spent a lot of time reading the british press & I hold that journalism in high regard. They can be highly critical of Islamist & I try to reflect that in articles. I'm interested in Islam-related articles when the UK media is (which happens often, lately). Sorry, thats probably not a very direct answer to a direct question! Veej 16:03, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

• Is there an article you think I'd be interested in then? Veej 16:22, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

• It was daunting when that first happened. I probably didn't react very well. I wasn't sure what my own position was either. I've had time to reflect & I'm more chilled out about it now though.Veej 16:47, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Well i've seen your note on User:Veej's page, please leave a note on my page at: User:AMbroodEY/Fundy_Watch if you think any article is being vandalised by Islamists (or fundys of any religion for that matter) or if you feel that the article has a distinct Islamist POV slant to it. We have quite a bucnh of organised people of apparent islamist persuation who have been vandalising Indian history-related articles.

p.s are you a JihadWatcher ? अमेय आर्यन DaBroodey 05:18, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

This user thinks it is ironic that thanks for supporting Cyde's successful RFA came in the form of a userbox.

Here's a userbox for you. --Cyde Weys 04:23, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Template:RFM-Filed

FYI 2

http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Ramallite#Some_Articles

Edit summaries

"rv OR, removal and twisting of sourced material. please refrain from self-righteous edit summaries like "NPOVing"" That's a good point, and I agree completely, but it might be better not to make that point in an edit summary. It's best to just briefly describe your edit. Thanks, Tom Harrison 15:37, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

AfD

I thought that maybe you would be interested in this: Misplaced Pages:Articles_for_deletion/Islam:_What_the_West_Needs_to_Know_second_nomination -- Karl Meier 17:47, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Your edits to Dhimmi article

Pecher, Some of your edits are really good, however, I think your edits have generally the following problems: 1. You are assuming that whatever some particular has scholars has said is a fact. Instead of writing them as the opinion of some scholar he writes it as a fact. "Lewis says X" will have more support than "X is so;" 2. Some of his quotes are clearly wrong to my mind. For example, As a shia, I am well aware of the Shia ritual purity. I am also aware of the Qur'anic verse they use to prove their opinion and problems with that interpretation(some shia scholars have pointed that out). Instead of removing your edits, I'll add evidences against them 3. You are adding irrelevant material to the article (e.g. Te picture of Maimonides in the Dhimmi article.)

I have to admit, I thought my edits were fair and was surprised when they got reverted wholesale. Thanks --Aminz 21:45, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for using "he". I just copied this text from my discussion with Tom Harrison. Sorry about that. The point is that you are quoting from one scholar and writing it as a fact, that is exactly the definition of "pov". The first step in NPOVing is that you mention who makes such arguments. And then let others come and quote from other sources. There are many scholars who have to say things on this subject. Who decides which one is more authentic. Thanks. --Aminz 22:05, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, the article is filled with too many quotes that are written as they are facts. Let me take one that is incorrect as well.

"Shi'a Islam devotes much attention to the issues of ritual purity — tahara. Shi'a jurists deem non-Muslims to be ritually impure — najis — so that contact with them defiles a Muslim. In Persia, where Shi'ism is dominant, these beliefs brought about restrictions that aimed at limiting physical contact between Muslims and dhimmis. Dhimmis were prohibited from attending public baths; they were not allowed to go outside in rain or snow, ostensibly because some impurity could be washed from them upon a Muslim."

"Shi'a Islam devotes much attention to the issues of ritual purity — tahara." is fine.

"Shi'a jurists deem non-Muslims to be ritually impure — najis — so that contact with them defiles a Muslim." is quoted from somewhere and is incorrect. The fact is that shia believes that only polytheist are najis. Their belief is based on the quranic verse 9:28. "O ye who believe! Truly the Mushriks are unclean". Even if we assume that it refers to ritual impurity, the verse is only in the context of polytheists and not dhimmis. Anyway, there is a story behind this verse and how it was used to justify the ritual impurity of polytheist.

I don't ask you to remove your edits in this place or other places. Just say "According to X, ...." I will come then and provide evidences against them. Thanks. --Aminz 22:31, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

I will; but my point is that when you add some argument, you should make it clear if this is the opinion of a particular scholar or it is a fact. Please make the article NPOV in this sense. Thanks, --Aminz 22:46, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

You and Aminz are both reasonable people. I think you can work together to stabilize the article. I've left a note on Talk:Dhimmi. Tom Harrison 15:06, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm glad Cyde has agreed to mediate. I think that will help a lot. I'll continue to follow the debate and help in any way I can. Tom Harrison 16:48, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

zero

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/3RR#User:Zero0000

Just waiting for more comments about the suggestion

Before changing the intro I put in in talk for comments Zeq 20:17, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Ongoing mediation

Your presence is requested in an ongoing mediation regarding the contents of several Islam-related articles. Thank you for your understanding. --Cyde Weys 02:39, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Double vote

I think it was probably a mistake, but your recommendation does appear twice in Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/The Qur’an and the Bible in the Light of Science. I'm not sure if the right way to correct it is to delete the second one, or debold the recom and then strike it out (<strike></strike>), but you should do something about it so the closing admin isn't inclined to disregard your recom altogether. Esquizombi 19:44, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Meshed/Mashhad

Did I ever think how offensive must be the spelling of "Warsaw" to the Poles? Frankly no; I am oblivious to lots of things. I was astonished the other day to realize that Bison and Wisent are cognates.

It reminds me of a situation I avoided becoming involved in: There is apparently an identifiable ethnic/religious/linguistic group of people, who have no name that one or another group does not find offensive. How shall we refer to them? I have no idea. It's a good thing that the spelling of Meshed/Mashad is not something we need to resolve on Talk:Dhimmi. We seem to have enough to do already. Tom Harrison 22:43, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Heh, I get it;) Tom Harrison 19:23, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Mediation

"Another point to bear in mind is, if you can cite verses from the Quran, so can all the other editors, Muslim or not." I think the Quran in this context should be treated like a primary source. We should not try to interpret it ourselves, or even try to identify which passages are relavent. It seems to me that would be original research.

If we want to know about Islam, we should cite the opinion of reptuable scholars, not cite the Quran directly. In my comment, I hoped to point out to Aminz(?) that if we are to be allowed to interpret the Quran directly for ourselves, and say what it requires of Muslims, then we are all going to be doing that, not just the Muslim editors. I do not expect that Farhansher, for example, would find that acceptable. Tom Harrison 19:54, 14 March 2006 (UTC)