Talk:Gilgamesh in the Outback: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 02:15, 12 August 2011 editHullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers96,059 edits →Original publication: new section← Previous edit		Revision as of 19:03, 12 August 2011 edit undoUrbanTerrorist (talk \| contribs)957 edits →Original publication: Explanation to Wolfie about how Permissions/Copyright Pages in Books work - Gilgamesh in the Outback was not listed as a reprint on the permissions page of Rebels in HellNext edit →
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	Outside of the pages of Misplaced Pages, there's zero dispute about where this story first appeared. Note that the Locus Fiction Index, which is as about as definitive as things get for the genre, lists "Gilgamesh in the Outback" as reprinted from IASFM, while all the other stories in the volume are identified as originals . And, since you're now claiming that a second one of AgBerg's Gilgamesh novellas was original to the anthologies, perhaps you'll tell us which one. "Gilgamesh in Uruk", which appeared in IASFM six months before the anthology appeared ? Or "The Fascination of the Abomination", which ran in IASFM merely three months earlier ? This link might also be of value to you . ] (]) 02:15, 12 August 2011 (UTC)		Outside of the pages of Misplaced Pages, there's zero dispute about where this story first appeared. Note that the Locus Fiction Index, which is as about as definitive as things get for the genre, lists "Gilgamesh in the Outback" as reprinted from IASFM, while all the other stories in the volume are identified as originals . And, since you're now claiming that a second one of AgBerg's Gilgamesh novellas was original to the anthologies, perhaps you'll tell us which one. "Gilgamesh in Uruk", which appeared in IASFM six months before the anthology appeared ? Or "The Fascination of the Abomination", which ran in IASFM merely three months earlier ? This link might also be of value to you . ] (]) 02:15, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

			*xxxxx

			Locus isn't consistent.
			<blockquote>To the Land of the Living, a mosaic adapted from '''two novellas that originally appeared in the Heroes in Hell anthology series''', is a much lighter affair, but thoroughly enjoyable.</blockquote>
			Locus also is not a reliable source. The only reliable source is the '''Permissions Page''' or '''Copyright Information Page''' which appears at the front of every book published. I have a copy of '''Rebels in Hell''' here though any book would do, and this is exactly what is on the Permissions page:
			<blockquote>
			REBELS IN HELL<br />
			<br />
			This is a work of fiction. All of the characters and events in this book are fictional, and any resemblance to real people or events is purely coincidental.<br />
			<br />
			Copyright © 1986 by Janet Morris<br />
			<br />
			All rights reserved, including the right to reproduce this book or portions thereof in any form.<br />
			<br />
			A Baen Books Original<br />
			<br />
			In Canada distributed by PaperJacks Ltd., <br />
			330 Steelcase Road, Markham, Ontario<br />
			<br />
			First Printing, July 1986<br />
			<br />
			ISBN: 0-671-65577-9<br />
			<br />
			Cover art by David Mattingly<br />
			<br />
			Printed in Canada<br />
			<br />
			Distributed by <br />
			SIMON & SCHUSTER<br />
			TRADE PUBLISHING GROUP<br />
			1230 Avenue of the Americas<br />
			New York, N. Y. 10020</blockquote>
			Assuming I didn't make any typos, that is accurate. Do you see anything in the Permissions/Copyright page about Gilgamesh in the Outback being a reprint in Rebels in Hell? No you don't, because it wasn't. Now go get something like the "Science Fiction Hall of Fame" off your book shelf, and look at the Permissions/Copyright page. The entire thing says "Originally printed" for every single story. This is a legal necessity.

			If the Silverberg and Benford stories were reprints the various Hell volumes would have had to indicate this on the Permissions/Copyright page. Since it wasn't indicated on the Permissions/Copyright page they were not reprints. Basic first grade logic.

			Permissions/Copyright pages exist for legal reasons. They lay out who or what is responsible for what appears in a book. This allows anyone who has a complaint to know who to contact, and if necessary who to sue. Most books are published without any issues, and then you come to the odd one like ]'s 60 Years Later: Coming Through the Rye.

			At this point I'm going to get a bit nasty. Sorry, but you've asked for it. You seem to be trying to educate Janet Morris about fine points of law on reprints, and what this requires in the way of permissions. Janet Morris has been an editor for a damned long time. Sit back and think. She's forgotten more about this than you will ever know.

			Exactly how mad do you wish to make her? From her comment on the Heroes in Hell discussion page I suspect she is damned near ready to call in the lawyers.

			Oh, and the Heroes in Hell discussion page says that this article was merged into the Heroes in Hell article. By bringing it back from the dead you may cause Misplaced Pages's system some problems. ] (]) 19:03, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

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Original publication

Outside of the pages of Misplaced Pages, there's zero dispute about where this story first appeared. Note that the Locus Fiction Index, which is as about as definitive as things get for the genre, lists "Gilgamesh in the Outback" as reprinted from IASFM, while all the other stories in the volume are identified as originals . And, since you're now claiming that a second one of AgBerg's Gilgamesh novellas was original to the anthologies, perhaps you'll tell us which one. "Gilgamesh in Uruk", which appeared in IASFM six months before the anthology appeared ? Or "The Fascination of the Abomination", which ran in IASFM merely three months earlier ? This link might also be of value to you . Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:15, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

xxxxx

Locus isn't consistent. To quote:

To the Land of the Living, a mosaic adapted from two novellas that originally appeared in the Heroes in Hell anthology series, is a much lighter affair, but thoroughly enjoyable.

Locus also is not a reliable source. The only reliable source is the Permissions Page or Copyright Information Page which appears at the front of every book published. I have a copy of Rebels in Hell here though any book would do, and this is exactly what is on the Permissions page:

REBELS IN HELL

This is a work of fiction. All of the characters and events in this book are fictional, and any resemblance to real people or events is purely coincidental.

Copyright © 1986 by Janet Morris

All rights reserved, including the right to reproduce this book or portions thereof in any form.

A Baen Books Original

In Canada distributed by PaperJacks Ltd.,
330 Steelcase Road, Markham, Ontario

First Printing, July 1986

ISBN: 0-671-65577-9

Cover art by David Mattingly

Printed in Canada

Distributed by
SIMON & SCHUSTER
TRADE PUBLISHING GROUP
1230 Avenue of the Americas

New York, N. Y. 10020

Assuming I didn't make any typos, that is accurate. Do you see anything in the Permissions/Copyright page about Gilgamesh in the Outback being a reprint in Rebels in Hell? No you don't, because it wasn't. Now go get something like the "Science Fiction Hall of Fame" off your book shelf, and look at the Permissions/Copyright page. The entire thing says "Originally printed" for every single story. This is a legal necessity.

If the Silverberg and Benford stories were reprints the various Hell volumes would have had to indicate this on the Permissions/Copyright page. Since it wasn't indicated on the Permissions/Copyright page they were not reprints. Basic first grade logic.

Permissions/Copyright pages exist for legal reasons. They lay out who or what is responsible for what appears in a book. This allows anyone who has a complaint to know who to contact, and if necessary who to sue. Most books are published without any issues, and then you come to the odd one like John David California's 60 Years Later: Coming Through the Rye.

At this point I'm going to get a bit nasty. Sorry, but you've asked for it. You seem to be trying to educate Janet Morris about fine points of law on reprints, and what this requires in the way of permissions. Janet Morris has been an editor for a damned long time. Sit back and think. She's forgotten more about this than you will ever know.

Exactly how mad do you wish to make her? From her comment on the Heroes in Hell discussion page I suspect she is damned near ready to call in the lawyers.

Oh, and the Heroes in Hell discussion page says that this article was merged into the Heroes in Hell article. By bringing it back from the dead you may cause Misplaced Pages's system some problems. UrbanTerrorist (talk) 19:03, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

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