User talk:Gandydancer: Difference between revisions

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Revision as of 18:50, 3 November 2011 editVanished user adhmfdfmykrdyr (talk \| contribs)57,163 edits →A kitten for you!← Previous edit		Revision as of 21:41, 3 November 2011 edit undoDualus (talk \| contribs)2,472 edits →Tinychat?: new sectionNext edit →
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	:Ditto. The woman issue is where I met our mutual friend. He sent an article to the new article incubator that had been deleted as non-notable after finding it on the gender gap list. (THAT bothers me, men's rights type activists trolling a list for intended to help increase female participation.) He made similar non-existent, not supported by research connections including that roller derby was like pornography, and that roller derby disturbed him because he had been a victim of female on male domestic violence and the sport's glorification of violence (it doesn't) appears to encourage that. Against the support of the roller derby contributors, argued the lack of accepting the article was based on discrimination against women. His arguments made it harder for the roller derby editors because we couldn't argue related to the sport as kept wrongly crying discrimination against women. Erk. Erk. Erk. :/ He offered non-apology I apologies, and refused to back up his claims. This was coupled with doing copyright violations with uploading non-free images, then sticking them in articles that had ZERO to do with the topic so he could use them on incubator. He appeared in {{irc\|wikipedia-en-help}} to complain and gave that bad advice to another ] editor who was working on another article. (He had been told on wiki and in chat that doing that could lead to blocking.) Beyond that, he showed up in {{irc\|wikimieda-gendergap}} to basically slam and complain about me. Anyone who has to deal with our friend on a consistent basis deserves far more than a kitten. --] (]) 18:50, 3 November 2011 (UTC)		:Ditto. The woman issue is where I met our mutual friend. He sent an article to the new article incubator that had been deleted as non-notable after finding it on the gender gap list. (THAT bothers me, men's rights type activists trolling a list for intended to help increase female participation.) He made similar non-existent, not supported by research connections including that roller derby was like pornography, and that roller derby disturbed him because he had been a victim of female on male domestic violence and the sport's glorification of violence (it doesn't) appears to encourage that. Against the support of the roller derby contributors, argued the lack of accepting the article was based on discrimination against women. His arguments made it harder for the roller derby editors because we couldn't argue related to the sport as kept wrongly crying discrimination against women. Erk. Erk. Erk. :/ He offered non-apology I apologies, and refused to back up his claims. This was coupled with doing copyright violations with uploading non-free images, then sticking them in articles that had ZERO to do with the topic so he could use them on incubator. He appeared in {{irc\|wikipedia-en-help}} to complain and gave that bad advice to another ] editor who was working on another article. (He had been told on wiki and in chat that doing that could lead to blocking.) Beyond that, he showed up in {{irc\|wikimieda-gendergap}} to basically slam and complain about me. Anyone who has to deal with our friend on a consistent basis deserves far more than a kitten. --] (]) 18:50, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

			== Tinychat? ==

			Do you think it would be helpful to try to communicate via ]? ] (]) 21:41, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Revision as of 21:41, 3 November 2011

Welcome!

Hello, Gandydancer, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Esprit15d 14:07, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

horizon oil spill relief wells

The citation was provided in a previous version. Some troll removed it. I have been struggling to keep this piece of information in the wiki but I do not have time to do this. I quit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jinxman1 (talk • contribs) 14:39, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Cold medicine

You replaced a review with primary research therefore reverted.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 22:15, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

November 2009

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. The recent edit you made to Rutabaga has been reverted, as it appears to have removed content from the page without explanation. Use the sandbox for testing; if you believe the edit was constructive, please ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing. Thank you. Falcon8765 (talk) 22:40, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

Joseph Campbell

Thank you for participating in the on-going discussion and editing of the Joseph Campbell article!

As you've found, Misplaced Pages is a funny combination: an anarchist belief in the hive mind at work and a set of very stringent (if not always stringently applied) rules for ensuring the highest usability, accuracy and neutrality of articles. The learning curve can be challenging, but it is worthwhile, I promise!

In any case, I look forward to your further contributions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.101.214.191 (talk) 18:52, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

2009 flu pandemic, regarding diagnosis section

Hi Gandydancer,

I responded to some of your points on the discussion page. By all means, Yes, please include the best quality stuff you can find. And it sounds like this is a real issue. Cool Nerd (talk) 02:47, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Re: Referencing

Yes, <ref>http://some.url.here/<ref> is perfectly acceptable. However, a better but more complicated way to cite a web source is by using a citation template, which can be filled out and inserted using the "{{ CITE }}" button in the toolbar. But using a citation template is by no means required and not all people are comfortable using them. --Cybercobra (talk) 19:22, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

As stated here Misplaced Pages:MEDMOS#Citing_medical_sources "The Cite.php footnote system is preferred as a method of indicating your sources but is not mandatory—see Misplaced Pages:Footnotes for details. Some editors format their citations by hand, which gives them control over the presentation."

So well it is not mandatory it is recommended and consistency in formatting is required to pass GA and FA reviews. I see you edit a fair bit which is why I bring it up. Thanks.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 20:22, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi, I saw you had a bit of difficulty with a ref on Deepwater Horizon oil spill -- great AP scoop and incredible details in that story. I fixed ref. Two tools can help a lot with formatted refs: no-install (bookmark) Citation generator makes it easy -- just select type (news, Web, etc), fill in the required fields, and cut and paste Wiki text. But I prefer Misplaced Pages:RefToolbar 2.0, which adds one-click access to these templates to your edit box for super ease of use -- pull down Template (news, Web, book, journal) from drop down box (hit Cite button if template selections not visible) and fill in the required blanks. It offers preview of not only Wiki text, but also preview of exactly how it will render in References. One click and ref data inserted at cursor (so position that at end of sentence first). Install one-line script in your User space, per instructions, reload browser, and you're off and running in seconds, literally. Paulscrawl (talk) 17:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. I did try the Citation generator and could not get it to work properly. I have to admit that my computer skills, on a scale of 1 to 10, are about a 1, if that. I edit Misplaced Pages because I feel that it is my civic duty now that I am retired and have more time and it's a lot of fun, not because of any special skills I have. I've learned the little I know by observing how others did it. When I have time I'll try to work on my citation skills again, but for now I have only time to make a few edits. You are doing an awesome job on the article! Gandydancer (talk) 13:04, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, the citation tools on wikipedia are a bit confusing. I used to just copy and paste other citations and then just change the details, but I have since found that the simplest way of doing it is to use the cite pmid template. All you need is the PMID number of the study (or the DOI if you use the doi template) and all the other stuff gets filled in automatically for you. --sciencewatcher (talk) 14:47, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Roma IQ studies

"This IQ info is absurd! This was one, deeply flawed study, not a review of studies at all)"

Don't correct other people's links, when you don't read them, you dolt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.235.19.212 (talk) 02:38, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi. Just to inform you, regarding this edit, that ScienceDirect is a database of journal articles so it's not correct to state that the "study has not been published in a peer reviewed journal, rather it has been published on-line at ScienceDirect". It was in fact published in Intelligence. Cordless Larry (talk) 11:25, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

I've corrected this but you might want to take a look at the wording yourself. Cordless Larry (talk) 12:34, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

common cold

The study is already there and refed to the journal.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 19:37, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

MS

You need to get consensus before adding this stuff again about CCVSI.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:27, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

January 2010

Your addition to Program for Evaluating Complementary Medicine has been removed, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Misplaced Pages without permission from the copyright holder. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of article content such as sentences or images. Misplaced Pages takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. - 2/0 (cont.) 18:11, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages guidelines

Hi Gandydancer, just to let you know that I responded on my talk page to your question about Misplaced Pages guidelines. Vitaminman (talk) 15:14, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Swine flu

Hi there, first off thanks very much for your work on this article, this has been a very important test for Misplaced Pages and due to editors such as yourself I think we have done pretty well. Cool Nerd asked for some advice and help with the talkpage discussions, I've responded on his talkpage and have read through more of that discussion. One approach I might recommend for you (I can see some frustration in your responses) is to copy the parts of the text that are under discussion onto the talkpage. This can then be redrafted and discussed and hopefully having the text there will help focus the discussions. I tend to use the

Quotation

template to do this, since it makes the draft stand out more. Anyway, hope this helps Tim Vickers (talk) 21:33, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

Cat talkpage

I'm concerned about the quality of sources being used here, see talkpage for discussion. Tim Vickers (talk) 21:18, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

2009 flu pandemic

Gandydancer,

I also look forward to our once again having a good relationship. Now, I am a radical in some regards, and that's likely to remain the case. But, I think we most likely have many areas of overlap where we can work together very constructively. For example, we both think it’s important for our page to meaningfully communicate with parents, right?

Cool Nerd (talk) 19:42, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

PS And where is that good joke on Tim’s page!

Re: H1N1

Not seeing what you're talking about. Could you elaborate? --Cybercobra (talk) 00:33, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

What browser and OS are you using? --Cybercobra (talk) 00:52, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

See here for the former. --Cybercobra (talk) 01:05, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Subpage created

I've created User:Gandydancer/Naica for your use as you redo the article. Left a link at Talk:Cave of the Crystals. Works in progress are usually done this way for various reasons. I've answered/commented on a couple things and have your subpage watchlisted. When its ready you can move back to the article or replace parts of the article with your work. Vsmith (talk) 19:59, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Sorry 'bout the edit conflict - commented at User talk:Gandydancer/Naica. Vsmith (talk) 20:29, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

re: AltMed

just as a piece of advice, you should read wp:bait. don't let yourself get caught up in the personal commentary, because what will eventually happen (once you get worked up enough) is that some hitherto uninvolved admin will show up out of the blue and block you for disruptive editing. be calm, be focused, and if other editors insist on making personal comments, ignore it (or leave me a note on my talk page and I'll deal with it - I have a lot of experience with this kind of thing).

do your best to think kind, peaceful thoughts. . --Ludwigs2 21:09, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

April 2010

In a recent edit to the page Factory farming, you changed one or more words from one international variety of English to another. Because Misplaced Pages has readers from all over the world, our policy is to respect national varieties of English in Misplaced Pages articles.

For subjects exclusively related to Britain (for example, a famous British person), use British English. For something related to the United States in the same way, use American English. For something related to other English-speaking countries, such as Canada, Australia, or New Zealand, use the appropriate variety of English used there. If it is an international topic, use the same form of English the original author used.

In view of that, please don't change articles from one version of English to the other, even if you don't normally use the version the article is written in. Respect other people's versions of English. They in turn should respect yours. Other general guidelines on how Misplaced Pages articles are written can be found in the Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style. If you have any queries about all this, you can ask me on my talk page or you can visit the help desk. Thank you. emerson7 04:08, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

== April 2010 == Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Misplaced Pages, as you did at Bo Carter. That edit seemed to constitute vandalism and has been reverted. If you consider the edit to have been correct, please add a verifiable source.--Technopat (talk) 22:34, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Greetings Gandydancer - please accept my apologies. I didn't know that one and thought "weiner" was a more modern term. I was, in fact, going to substitute it for the "lemon" song, but thought there were already enough titles in there. Again, I'm sorry for slapping the vandalism tag on you. I owe you one. PS. Why don't you delete the warning I've struck and just leave my apology here - it's your talk page and you can do what you want!--Technopat (talk) 09:30, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

He did sing "Please Warm My Wiener". See your talk page. Gandydancer (talk) 01:27, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Gandy-dancer Chant

It's one I've seen on antique signs and such. I don't know about the authenticity of it, but I still think it's funny. Glad you enjoyed it! Kalmbach (talk) 20:09, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

May 2010

Deepwater Horizon oil spill Kittybrewster ☎ 11:27, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Kitty, My edit:

The type of oil involved is also a major problem. While most of the oil drilled off Louisiana is a lighter crude, because the leak is deep under the ocean surface the leaking oil is a heavier blend which contains asphalt-like substances, and, according to Ed Overton, who heads a federal chemical hazard assessment team for oil spills, this type of oil emulsifies well, making a "major sticky mess". Once it becomes that kind of mix, it no longer evaporates as quickly as regular oil, doesn't rinse off as easily, can't be eaten by microbes as easily, and doesn't burn as well. "That type of mixture essentially removes all the best oil clean-up weapons", Overton and others said.

This info is referenced and I believe appropriate for the article. Please explain why you feel it is "not constructive". Gandydancer (talk) 11:37, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi. That info is fine. The info you added as shown by the history was "suspicious" - in the lede. I think the software faltered and your edit (which is lost) was over-written by vandal 83.39.9.248. I have revoked the warning. Sorry. Kittybrewster ☎ 11:44, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

However, the history of the article still makes it look like I am a vandal, which does not make me look good at all!Gandydancer (talk) 11:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Fair comment. I will see if I can get it amended. I fdon't think it would be held against you. Kittybrewster ☎ 11:57, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Kitty, but I think I fixed it with a comment when I did add it. All's well that ends well! Gandydancer (talk) 12:34, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to personally compliment the two of you for dealing with this issue as calmly as you have.Naraht (talk) 13:09, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I couldn't believe you didn't check my source carefully enough, but I went back and looked, which I should have done before I reverted your revert of my edit. How do they just delete something like that? Did the fishermen not go to the hospital? If they didn't shouldn't the paper have reported that it was believed but then found not to be true? I don't get it. I didn't think an article could change that much after I saw it. I guess I should be careful when posting breaking news.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 16:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

ITN for Deepwater Horizon oil spill

On 17 May 2010, In the news was updated with a news item that involved the article Deepwater Horizon oil spill, which you substantially updated. If you know of another interesting news item involving a recently created or updated article, then please suggest it on the candidates page.

--Wanted to make sure you got one of these. Awesome job! - Aalox (Say Hello • My Work) 19:11, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Excessive summary edits on Deepwater Horizon oil spill

Thank you for your support. I responded. Paulscrawl (talk) 16:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Ecology

Hey, I don't remember Peabody's coal train but I remember Mr. Whoopee explaining the unlimited advantages of mass production with his 3d bb.

I changed by comment in the Ecology discussion section to say now is the time to take the 'before' pictures for eventual inclusion in the article.Createangelos (talk) 02:40, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: Thank you so much!

You're quite welcome. He was definitely acting in an appropriate manner and his additions of irrelevant material to the talk page defied Misplaced Pages policies. If he continues to bother you in the future or act inappropriately, you need not hesitate to let me or anyone else here know about it. Cheers and happy editing!. — CIS | stalk) 15:41, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Editing talk page comments

I thought I'd move this here rather than User talk:MichaelWestbrook. I was unaware that users are not allowed to edit their own comments on other's talk pages, could you point me in the direction of the relevant policy? I looked earlier but to no avail! Thanks, raseaC 18:19, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Sure, it is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Help:Misplaced Pages:_The_Missing_Manual/Collaborating_with_Other_Editors/Communicating_with_Your_Fellow_Editors I am not an experenced editor and I'm surprised I found it - I'll probably never be able to find it again... :) Gandydancer (talk) 21:49, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

No misunderstanding

Of course we are on friendly terms. I was just trying to put the whole thing to rest. It pains me to see long threads like that -- such an unconstructive use of our time. You've been around for a while, so you know that such user talk threads must be geared to ending, and not "feeding" the dialogue.

If there's anything you ever need, just let me know. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 18:45, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Ditto. Well said. Onwards! -- Paulscrawl (talk) 15:13, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Anna and Paul. I put quite a bit of thought into that post - it was not dashed off on the spur of the moment. I remain uncertain as to whether or not it was the right thing to do, but I am certain that it was the right thing for me to do. Over the years I have worked with abused women and children and as such have strong feelings about women's issues.

While it may be seen by some as "feeding" the issue, I did not see it that way. Editing would be easy enough if it were not for the discussion that is so often necessary. As you know, Misplaced Pages uses consensus and consensus can be very difficult since it insists that each speaker must be willing and must be allowed to express their point of view. To close a discussion because it is difficult is never a good idea and not fair to those involved. Gandydancer (talk) 12:56, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

I didn' mean to imply you were "feeding" him. I used the term "feeding" to imply that he is a troll, as in "don't feed the trolls". I thought you might know that saying. At the time, I couldn't openly say it. Now, it is clear that he was the poster-child. :) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:42, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Slippery matter

Hi Gandydancer:

I meant I don't care either way about the past tense, not about what you said. I liked what you said.

Funny, isn't it? Something like 15 thousand visitors a day, and nearly 300 editors watching the page, and not a peep about the switch to past tense. Sometimes I just don't get Misplaced Pages. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:59, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Well yes, I was thinking the same thing! Anna, if the truth be known, it is quite surprising that I edit at all. I never was one to have a way with words, plus my father published a book and my two sisters both write extremely well - so I was sort of the black sheep and have little confidence in myself in that area. Add to that, I really have few computer skills - I still have not been able to figure out how to upload a photo though I read the Photos for Dummies section. But I love Misplaced Pages, and I feel a responsibility to do my share. Considering that the corporate world spends millions upon millions to influence the public, if it weren't for us they could easily take over Misplaced Pages. As always, it is good to hear from you. Gandydancer (talk) 12:56, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

I think you should have confidence in your writing. It's fine. Also, you do more than your share. Nice to hear back from you. Stay well, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:40, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Oh I think they turn out just fine as well...but I really do have to work very hard to put a reasonable edit together. And then everything must go through a spell check - sis Judy won the spelling championship way back when, but that part of my brain seems to be missing completely. :) Gandydancer (talk) 16:24, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

References made easy

You might find this useful:

I've been using this. It fixes up the references automatically. I don't know if you're familiar with it. It will turn this into this.

Paste in the article name
Click run
Preview changes
Save

(If one of the refs is a pdf, before you use reflinks, stick something after the url, like: < ref >oilspillsandwhytheyarentfun.pdf Information on oil spills< / ref >)

Very handy. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:58, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I tried to convert this: http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/70/15/6368.abstract from Cancer Research, a medical journal, and it just said "page not found". All I did was to paste it in the first box. (It is from the high-fructose corn syrup page under the Cancer section.) Did I need to do more? Gandydancer (talk) 12:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Put the ref in the article where you want it to be with the normal ref thingy: <ref>http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/70/15/6368.abstract</ref> ...and save page. (You never need to use those square brackets.) Then paste the article name into the reflinks box.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:37, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

References made easy: Example

This.:
<ref>http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/70/15/6368.abstract</ref> 
becomes this:
<ref>{{cite web|url=http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/70/15/6368.abstract |title=Fructose Induces Transketolase Flux to Promote Pancreatic Cancer Growth — Cancer Res |publisher=Cancerres.aacrjournals.org |date= |accessdate=2010-08-06}}</ref>
and renders like this:
1. ^ "Fructose Induces Transketolase Flux to Promote Pancreatic Cancer Growth — Cancer Res". Cancerres.aacrjournals.org. Retrieved 2010-08-06.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:44, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Since you were interested...

It's not especially relevant to the ADHD article, but since you're interested:

On the first day of the school year in California, the Kindergarten teacher may be faced with students as young as 4 years, 9 months, and as old as six years, 11 months (not counting students with disabilities, who may be older). The state requires schools to accept students whose fifth birthdays are before December 2nd -- thus the 4.75-year-old child. It also prohibits the school from requiring a student to attend any school at all before the sixth birthday -- thus the nearly 7-year-old child, who couldn't be forced into school the previous year.

This appears to be the legal maximum for normal admissions; the typical age range in a Kindergarten classroom seems to be about 16-18 months. Additionally, there are complications with students who begin school in other states, and a variety of adjustments made for students with disabilities (some of whom both start Kindergarten later than average and also spend two years in Kindergarten).

In some other countries, it appears that Kindergarten is normally a two-year program. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:28, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

CCSVI

While I agree with your comments, since this edit is quite controverted it would be a good idea to try to reach consensus at talk page first or we would end on an edit-war.--Garrondo (talk) 19:43, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I do understand your thinking and to some extent I do believe you are right. On the other hand, I have decided to just plow right into this, as I have done - with both eyes open... From just the little reading I have done, it seems that you are attempting to keep the article balanced. I have had other dealings with LSD, and we tend to not be on the same wavelength. Same for Doc James. But they both have sound medical knowledge, not that I always agree. As for the other editor, he seems quite difficult... Gandydancer (talk) 20:09, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Baby Doe Tabor

Thanks for the note on Baby Doe. Do you know where we can find a copyright-free picture of Baby Doe that we could use in the article? Plazak (talk) 01:41, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a native, having moved here only 34 years ago. I live in Denver. Plazak (talk) 17:31, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

We owned several hundred acres 3 miles south of Granite right there by what is now called the Pine Creek Rapids. I went to the one-room school up on the hill in Granite. There is a photo of the ice palace in Leadville at the govt. site if you'd like to add it to the Leadville page. Gandydancer (talk) 17:45, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Gandy dancer

Photos added! :-)

best wishes, Richard Myers (talk) 23:05, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

When i work with Google Books references, i have two windows open for each book. One is the information in the book that i am referencing, and the other window displays the about this book information. That way, i can easily create the footnote, and switch back and forth as needed.

I normally don't use the link to the Google page as a part of the reference. If Google changed their method of display, all the Google book references would be broken. Rather, i follow the standard footnote format as if you had the book in front of you. I include the author's name first, then book title, publisher, any additional info (such as paperback edition, etc.), and finally, page number.

If one desired to link to the Google book source, then that should be included in the footnote after the other information. Important to leave a space before and after the link. Then, include "retrieved on November 29, 2010" to let anyone exploring the link know when it was accessed. But this link is extra information, it is all the standard book details that are important.

I do, of course, sometimes share Google book links with others on the talk page. To make the link manageable, simply put single square brackets around it. Then there's a trick that you can do. If you leave a space at the end, inside the brackets, you can add a word or a phrase after that space to explain the link. This word or phrase will appear in the text when the link is presented.

It is important to avoid adding photos to Misplaced Pages that are claimed by a library, they will just get deleted. However, sometimes you can find equivalent photos in books printed before 1926. These are pretty much all public domain, because the copyright has expired.

I'm a graphic designer, so will be happy to help with photos if desired, including making them presentable, if needed. And, will look at the Granite article soon. best wishes, Richard Myers (talk) 19:52, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Greetings, Gandy Dancer. I see you undid an edit I made at the Gandy Dancer article (referring users to relevant content at the article's Talk page) indicating I should read the Talk page first. Actually, I had, and found that some Internet searching I had done on my own prior dovetailed with the last several items posted by the above Richard Myers. I wrote up a post including it for the Talk page but see now I never hit "Save Page" before retiring past 3AM. My mistake. The additional content is posted there now. Thank you for your vigilance.

I'm going to clean up a loose sentence left similarly mid-edit at the Gandy dancer page and call it good for now. Cheers. Wikiuser100 (talk) 12:36, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Haiti

Okay! :) Just re-added it, as I said from your remark. I had heard it before, that the shallowness of the quake made it worse, which seems to make sense. So I thought it was a slam dunk when someone ref-ed it. Agree that it needs to be more scientific. Will keep my eye out for a better ref. Basically did this the lazy man's way. Now to actually work! :) Thanks for the heads up! Student7 (talk) 23:00, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Only. Again. Still. Yet

Let's say you are six feet tall. No one has ever measured you but you weren't that height exactly. It is written in the sky.

With a deliberate axe to grind, I report, "Gandydancer is only six feet tall," meaning, of course you "should" be taller. Maybe I report basketball or something. Or I say, "Gandydancer is still six feet tall." Should have changed. Why hasn't he? "..is yet six feet tall." Should be something other than that height. To avoid the perception of bias on my part, I could report objectively and merely say "Gandydancer is six feet tall." People, including sports fans, can put whatever spin they want on that. I have not put any. And being an encyclopedia reporter and not a media reporter, that is indeed, what I would do. Student7 (talk) 22:27, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

2011 Wisconsin protests - talk section: Merrill

I would not characterize your efforts regarding the Merrill protests as "misguided". However, I did suggest what I think would be a better way of handling it in the future under the talk section. Overall, we came to a desirable solution in the aftermath and I appreciate the comments regarding. Best wishes and happy editing. Stylteralmaldo (talk) 13:49, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

haiti earthquakes

The fact that the geometries of the sun earth and moon were identical in the cases of the 1907 kingston earthquake and the 2010 haiti earthquake is an interesting observation I decided to note on the page, but you deleted it calling it Vandalism. Last year there was a 8.8 magnitude Chilean earthquake as the Sun, Earth and Jupiter were lining up.

I know I am suggesting a correlation, but it is interesting nonetheless, and very useful than most information because it might save lives.

Don't burn books.Ngrant5 (talk) 07:51, 29 March 2011 (UTC)Ngrant5

Campbell Article

Hi, I rewrote the article we talked about some weeks ago. Please have a look and let me know if you agree

One aspect of Campbell’s analysis focused on the evolution of the mythic imaginary through history. The forces responsible where environmental, with the source of food being of primary importance, as well as social, with influences from neighbouring cultures. He indentified stages of evolution which can be summed up to the following

Hunting and Gathering Societies (The Way of Animal Powers) At this stage of evolution, religion was animistic, with all of nature seen as being infused with some kind of spirit or divine presence. At the center stage was the main hunting animal of that culture, whether the buffalo for Native American or the Eland for South African tribes and a large part of their religion focused on dealing with the psychological tension that came from the reality of the kill (versus the divinity of the animal being hunted). This was done by presenting the animals as a willing participants, springing from an eternal archetypal source and coming to this world as "willing victims with the understanding that their lives will be returned to the soil or to Mother through some ritual of restoration". The act of slaughter then becomes a ritual where both parties, animal and man, are equal participants. In his last interview with Bill Moyers as well as in his lectures, later released as Mythos, he recounts the story he calls the Buffalo's Wife as told by the Blackfoot tribe in North America which recounts the origin of the buffalo dance.The story tells of a time when the buffalo stopped coming to the plains and the chief's daughter promises to marry the buffalo chief in return for their reappearance. She is eventually spared and is taught the mystic knowledge of the buffalo dance, which is the ritual that allows the spirits of the dead animals to return.

Agricultural Societies (The Seeded Earth) Starting off on the fertile grasslands of Europe in the Bronze Age and moving to the Levant and the "Fertile Crescent" of Mesopotamia, the arts of agriculture spread together with a new way of understanding the world in relation to them and the Earth and myths focused around her life-giving powers. The plant and cultivation cycle was mirrored in religious rituals which often included human sacrifice symbolic or literal. The main figures of this system where a femae Great Godess, Mother Earth and her ever-dying and ever-resurrected son/consort, a male God. The focus here was to participate in the repetitive rhythm the world moved in, variously expressed as the four seasons, the birth and death of crops and the phases of the moon. At the center of this motion was the Mother Goddess from whom life would spring and to whom life would return. This often gave her a dual aspect as a mother and as a destroyer.

Higher Cultures of the Ancient World (The Celestial Lights) As the cultures of the Near East evolved into the high civilisations of Mesopotamia and Babylonia. The constant observation of the stars gave people the idea that life on earth must also follow the same mathematically predetermined path where individual beings are but mere participants in a cosmic play. The king was symbolised by the Sun, with the golden crown being the metaphor, while his court where the orbiting planets. The Mother Goddess remained but her powers where now fixed within the rigid framework of a clockwork Universe.

As the Indo-European (Aryan) people descended from the north, carrying with them their masculine warrior gods, they blended with the previous system of the Earth Godess, creating many of the great mythologies of ancient Greece, Rome, India and Persia. Figures like Zeus and Indra are thunder gods who now interact in the same system with Demeter and Dionysus who's ritual sacrifice was still enacted in Classical Greece. In the lecture series of Mythos Campbell speaks of the Mysteries of Eleusis in Ancient Greece, where Demeter's journey in the underworld was enacted for young men and women of the time. There he observed that weat was presented as the ultimate mystery much as it is in the Christian mysteries in the form of bread. Both religions carrying the same "seeded earth" cosmology in different forms.

Medieval mythology and romantic love Campbell recognised in the poetic form of courtly love, carried through medieval Europe by the travelling troubadours, a complete mythology in its own right. In the The Power of Myth as well as the "Occidental Mythology" volume of The Masks of God, Campbell describes the emergence of a new kind of erotic experience as a "person to person" affair, in contrast with the purely physical definition given to Eros in the the ancient world and the communal "agape" found in the Christian religion. One of the archetypal stories of this kind is Tristan and Isolde which, apart from its mystical function, shows the transition from an arranged marriage society, as practiced in the middle ages and sanctified by the church, into the form of marriage by "falling in love" with another person that we recognise today. So what essentially started from a mythological theme has since become a social reality mainly due to a change in perception brought about by a new mythology.

Creative Mythology Campbell believed that in the modern world, the position of formal mythological systems is taken by individual creators such as artists and philosophers. In the works of his favourites like Thomas Mann, Pablo Picasso and James Joyce, he saw mythological themes that could serve the same life giving purpose that mythology once played. Accordingly, Campbell believed the religions of the world to be the various, culturally influenced “masks” of the same fundamental, transcendent truths. All religions, including Christianity and Buddhism, can bring one to an elevated awareness above and beyond a dualistic conception of reality, or idea of “pairs of opposites,” such as being and non-being, or right and wrong. Indeed, he quotes in the preface of The Hero with a Thousand Faces: "Truth is one, the sages speak of it by many names."—which is a translation of the Rig Vedic saying, "Ekam Sat Vipra Bahuda Vadanthi." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmick66 (talk • contribs) 10:46, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Mmick I have read it quite a few times but without your source I don't know how to respond. If you feel that it is ready to post I guess I'm not the boss of Misplaced Pages to tell you that it is not. I'm sure you have worked very hard on this and would like to see it on the Campbell page. I really like some parts, others not so much... Best, Gandy

What do you mean by "without your source?" There are a few references throughout... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmick66 (talk • contribs) 08:18, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

OK, I will continue to try to give my feedback:

Creative Mythology

Campbell believed that in the modern world the position of formal mythological systems is taken by individual creators such as artists and philosophers. In the works of some of his favorites such as Thomas Mann, Pablo Picasso and James Joyce, he saw mythological themes that could serve the same life-giving purpose that mythology once played. Accordingly, Campbell believed the religions of the world to be the various culturally influenced “masks” of the same fundamental, transcendent truths. All religions can bring one to an elevated awareness above and beyond a dualistic conception of reality, or idea of “pairs of opposites” such as being and non-being, or right and wrong. Indeed, he quotes in the preface of The Hero with a Thousand Faces: "Truth is one, the sages speak of it by many names"—which is a translation of the Rig Vedic saying, "Ekam Sat Vipra Bahuda Vadanthi."

What do you think? Gandydancer (talk) 21:56, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Medieval mythology and romantic love

Campbell recognized that the poetic form of courtly love, carried through medieval Europe by the traveling troubadours, contained a complete mythology in its own right. In the The Power of Myth as well as the "Occidental Mythology" volume of The Masks of God, Campbell describes the emergence of a new kind of erotic experience as a "person to person" affair, in contrast with the purely physical definition given to Eros in the the ancient world and the communal agape found in the Christian religion. An archetypal story of this kind is the legend of Tristan and Isolde which, apart from its mystical function, shows the transition from an arranged marriage society as practiced in the middle ages and sanctified by the church, into the form of marriage by "falling in love" with another person that we recognize today. So what essentially started from a mythological theme has since become a social reality, mainly due to a change in perception brought about by a new mythology. Gandydancer (talk) 22:16, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I don't have any information of my own on this section and have no idea what to do with it.

I am very familiar with this information but I would have presented it very differently. It is my impression that you have tried to present so much information that it is jumbled and hard to follow. I won't try to make any changes. Gandydancer (talk) 22:59, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Hunting and gathering societies

At this stage of evolution religion was animistic, with all of nature seen as being infused with the spirit of the divine. At center stage was the main hunting animal of that culture, whether the buffalo for Native Americans or the eland for South African tribes, and a large part of religion focused on dealing with the psychological tension that came from the reality of the necessity to kill versus the divinity of the animal. This was done by presenting the animals as willing participants springing from an eternal archetypal source and coming to this world as willing victims, with the understanding that their lives would be returned to the soil or to the Mother through a ritual of restoration. The act of slaughter then becomes a ritual where both parties, animal and mankind, are equal participants. In his last interview with Bill Moyers as well as in his lectures, Campbell recounts the story he calls "The Buffalo's Wife" as told by the Blackfoot tribe of North America. The story tells of a time when the buffalo stopped coming to the plains and the chief's daughter promises to marry the buffalo chief in return for their reappearance. She is eventually spared and is taught the mystic knowledge of the buffalo dance, which is the ritual that allows the spirits of the dead animals to return. Indeed, Campbell taught that throughout history mankind has held a belief that all life comes from and returns to another dimension which transcends temporality, but which can be reached through ritual. NOTE THAT I HAVE ADDED A SENTENCE HERE Gandydancer (talk) 23:20, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

I am fine with the changes you made. The main line of dispute seems to be the blending of indo-european with pre indo-european cultures where male oriented and female oriented cultures merged. How do you think its best to present this. I am holding a Campbell book this moment where it says: "It is almost certain that the association of King Mark with a horse ... testifies to an original involvement of his image in a context of royal solar rites, the warrior rites of those Celtic Aryans who, with their male oriented patriarchal order, overran in the course of the first millenium BC the old bronze age world Mother Goddess and mother -right" So Campbell uses the Mother Right wording as well... Mmick66 (talk) 10:58, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

OK, I will print the section we are having problems with first:

(In response to your post) OK, in the first place you have it under this heading: Higher Cultures of the Ancient World (The Celestial Lights). This info is about the manner in which the Mother Earth/Nature Goddess was removed from Her place on-high and replaced with with the Father God (God of heaven AND earth!). Then, although you have explained the Mother Goddess of the agricultural societies elsewhere, there is no introduction to the Father God concept - the fact that He was the God of the herders of animals who roamed about becoming warriors who conquered others rather than staying in one place and being "fertile". This story is told in the Old Testament when Cain slays Abel - the herder slays the one who tends the earth - and that is our legacy to this day. In your post you show how the two mythologies were combined, but I feel that you have failed to mention the fact that from that time on the female goddess was subjugated to the male god. There was a marriage, however the two were not then (or now) in an equal relationship. Gandydancer (talk) 13:53, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

To go on, here is the last section of your proposed edit with my suggested changes:

Agricultural Societies

Beginning in the fertile grasslands of Europe in the Bronze Age and moving to the Levant and the Fertile Crescent of Mesopotamia, the practice of agriculture spread along with a new way of understanding mankind's relationship to the world. At this time the earth was seen as the Mother, and the myths focused around Her life-giving powers. The plant and cultivation cycle was mirrored in religious rituals which often included human sacrifice, symbolic or literal. The main figures of this system were a female Great Goddess, Mother Earth, and her ever-dying and ever-resurrected son/consort, a male God. At this time the focus was to participate in the repetitive rhythm the world moved in expressed as the four seasons, the birth and death of crops and the phases of the moon. At the center of this motion was the Mother Goddess from whom all life springs and to whom all life returns. This often gave Her a dual aspect as both mother and destroyer. Gandydancer (talk) 11:25, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

I am fine with the edits above and would make no further. About the Male/Female gods talked above. There is an obvious problem with providing too many details about the Aryan male gods since the indo european herders who carried him had not invented writing and left little traces of his development. So his story really starts from when he subjugated the female fertility godess. I suggest we add the story of Cain and Abel as an example. We can also add the Tree of life, an early symbol of the Goddess who became the source of pain for mankind as well as the snake turning from a fertility symbol to an evil spirit in the Old Testament. I do not remember references by heart so we must do some research. Apart form that I feel that we are almost ready to post a first version live... Mmick66 (talk) 09:25, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Hello, Gandydancer. You have new messages at Anna Frodesiak's talk page.
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Indian Love Call

Har! That song...is so...odd...and makes me howl every time I see the Martians die in Mars Attacks.

Ok, so the thing with non-free media is that one has to write a super duper fair use rationale, with sources and everything that say unequivocally how important this file is. Do you have the sources to do that? Can you write a few sentences to describe, like this one, how important this sample is? And it has to be shorter than 30 seconds, so 29 if possible. Which 30 seconds would you like? --Moni3 (talk) 01:27, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Veto

I didn't say it would have done anything _useful_, I just said he could have vetoed it. It almost certainly would have been overridden, but he could have made that choice. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:24, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

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Abortion

As a heads up this topic area is under a 1RR restriction per Misplaced Pages:GS. Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:01, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

1RR means that editors are only allowed to revert once rather than the usual 3 reverts... --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:37, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Question about Deepwater spill article

Hi, i've seen you for a year now on the BP spill article. I've been doing a lot of editing there, but always with an IP. Finally got myself a username. The page is locked now, and I don't see a time limit. That is new to me, i wonder why that happened and whether some policy has changed at Wiki to allow this? Thanks, Petrarchan47 (talk) 23:51, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Abortion: a matter of life and death?

Hi, GD, you said:

Ed, quick reply - been there done that. The discussion did center around that issue for some time. The problem is, if even the best minds can not agree, is this something for Misplaced Pages editors to tackle? Can you have death if there was no life to die? See for instance Misplaced Pages Life: "Since there is no unequivocal definition of life..."

Right, I had totally forgotten that everyone's split over "life begins at birth". Of course, they mean "human life" which in turn means that the fetus *is* a human being (and all that implies). And if it's a human being, and it's alive, then killing it is homicide, i.e., murder, eh? (I will bring this back to talk:abortion ... I'm not trying to split the thread.)

When I get back there, I see I'll have to distinguish between "causing the living cells of the fetus to die" and "killing a baby" (wish me luck). --Uncle Ed (talk) 03:51, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Well you'll need it. Having no idea about who you are I meant to check your talk page but accidentally clicked Michael's talk page where I found this post related to this issue (Orange was the first to bring up the no death without life consideration):

Talk:Abortion

My left nutsack knows more than you. Jesus fucking Christ, I have never attacked you personally, but have, in fact, ignored you commentary. But your personal attacks are childish, immature, and, prove to me, you lack anything but personal attacks as a skill set. Consider this a warning for your childish personal attacks. Your best choice....do something else in life that befits your level of knowledge. OrangeMarlin Talk• Contributions 16:23, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Grow up and stop acting like a foul mouthed adolescent. Your contribution at Talk:Abortion was unscientific and typically stupid. That some lone incompetent twat followed your lead is unfortunate (and hilarious). -- cheers, Michael C. Price talk 17:14, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Hilarious-- cheers, Michael C. Price talk 16:53, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

That's me - I'm the lone incompetent twat. :D Gandydancer (talk) 13:01, 17 June 2011 (UTC):

I'd suggest one keep in mind:

In 1973, Harry Blackmun wrote the court opinion for Roe v. Wade, saying "We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate." Gandydancer (talk) 13:31, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

RE. Michael C. Price's comment: I would not jump to a conclusion on that, he might have had someone else in mind. I was following that at the time I didn't think then it refered to you. 62.254.133.139 (talk) 19:40, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh really? And what other twat expressed similar thoughts at that time? Gandydancer (talk) 01:09, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

That would be me, through some wibbly wobbly timey wimey...stuff. NW (Talk) 13:11, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Hey. I think I understand your concern about "death". You don't want the first sentence of the article to be understood as declaring that meaningful human life (or "ensoulment") begins at conception or implantation. Looking at the 2006-2011 version, what word could we swap with death to solve this particular problem, putting aside for the moment other problems you may have with the 2006-2011 version? "Expiration"? "Demise"? "Cessation"? "Loss"? "Assassination"? Well, maybe not that last one. Please think it over, and maybe discuss at the article talk page if such a word exists. Thanks.Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:24, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I am concerned...

Now the EPA is a Misplaced Pages editor who calls himself USEPA James. He introduces himself:

As indicated by my user name, I work for the United States Environmental Protection Agency. Given the popularity of Misplaced Pages and the sometimes contentious nature of things we regulate, I proposed to my management that EPA somehow get involved in Misplaced Pages content when facts related to the agency's purview are substantively misstated here. After getting guidance from Misplaced Pages's talk page for usernames, I set up this account.

My approach for interacting with Misplaced Pages will be to post a list of facts with citations to talk pages that I feel need improvement. To avoid the appearance that EPA is attempting to lord over Misplaced Pages content, I hope to recruit Misplaced Pages enthusiasts and Foundation members to use the lists I post to edit content as they see fit. If you're interested in helping out, leave a message on my talk page.--USEPA James (talk) 21:16, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

Hello. This is a follow-up to your comments and suggestions on the username discussion page. As is usual for the government, it took a while to get approval to proceed toward a new frontier. But I finally got the OK to set up the account and begin suggesting edits to content that falls within USEPA's purview. You volunteered to help out or point me in the direction of folks who might be interested. I have a bullet list of proposed edits w/citations for a particular chemical page on Misplaced Pages, but to avoid the appearance of lording over Misplaced Pages content we would prefer not to edit pages directly. If you're still interested in helping out, please contact me. USEPA James (talk) 18:11, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

And moving forward to June 23 I make the following post at the Clothianidin article, the first one from his list of articles that he plans to work on:

It has been suggested that the entire section regarding the NRDC lawsuit be removed. I will quote the suggestion:

'Regarding the NRDC lawsuit text, does anyone object to its removal as well? My thought was that updating the lawsuit text to reflect the facts I referenced above would make USEPA look great, but I’m concerned about an appearance of a conflict of interest. I feel the suit was more of a flash-in-the-pan news item and probably didn't belong on the clothianidin page in the first place. Deletion would be consistent with the WP:NOT#NEWS policy and would help avoid the appearance of COI from me just updating the text. Thoughts? --USEPA James (talk) 21:13, 23 June 2011 (UTC)'

Yes, I do have concerns. It can not be argued that this is "old news" since most of Misplaced Pages is "old news". This editor feels that it was just a flash-in-the-pan item, however most news is of the flash in the pan nature - it becomes newsworthy and then after awhile it is no longer newsworthy. To suggest that a deletion would help avoid the appearance of conflict of interest of an EPA employee is very troubling to me. As one of the top contributors to the BP oil spill, I shudder to think how differently the article would read if the Coast Guard, NOAA, the MMS and the EPA could have had this same advantage. I remain very troubled that government agencies are allowed to post to articles in their own name. If that is policy I have no choice but to accept it, but I do feel that it will bring Misplaced Pages closer to an establishment-controlled encyclopedia rather than a people's encyclopedia. If they even must state, "I want to avoid a COI", is not this problematic? Gandydancer (talk) 16:19, 25 June 2011 (UTC) Gandydancer (talk) 19:09, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Some links:

EPA http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/about/intheworks/clothianidin-registration-status.html Pesticide Action http://www.panna.org/ Beyond Pesticides http://www.beyondpesticides.org/ Center for Biological Diversity http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/ American Beekeeping Assn. http://www.abfnet.org/

Pesticides usually cause toxicity to cells or molecules, and the cells and molecules of humans and animals can be very similar. Thus, if a pesticide affects a cellular or biochemical process in animals, it is likely to do so in humans as well. http://publicaccess.supportportal.com/ics/support/kbAnswer.asp?deptID=23008&task=knowledge&questionID=19903

FROM THE EPA SITE:

Steps for representing EPA online in an official capacity

Remember that your time is valuable. Discuss the following with your supervisor and obtain approval, whether creating a new item or responding to an existing item. Contractors should discuss and obtain approval from their EPA contract manager.

Time to research and write a posting, response, or edit
Likely viewership and value of participating
Importance of the issue

If responding, also use the attached flow chart, “Should I Respond Online on EPA’s Behalf?”

Identify supporting sources. If a supporting source is online, then provide information so that others can access it. Online support may include EPA Web pages and other materials including video and audio; offline bibliographical references are second-best. Do not edit or write without supporting citations, and include a disclaimer to clarify that references made to non-EPA information do not constitute an endorsement.

Identify your EPA affiliation. Because you are participating in your official capacity, you may create a profile on social media sites that identifies you as an employee of the "U.S. Environmental Protection Agency" and use your work email address. If you are an EPA contractor, you should make that fact clear and identify your company. Do not submit items to or make edits about EPA information anonymously. Restrict your participation, comments or edits to facts. Do not address opinions and remember that your actions reflect on the Agency.

To help all of EPA learn good models for online engagement, please inform your Web Content Coordinator, who will track these types of activities for your program office or Region.

If your social media use is a one-time event, send the URL and a brief summary of the situation.

If your participation is ongoing, let the Web Content Coordinator know the general nature of what you are doing. (For example, you are generally monitoring relevant blogs and commenting where appropriate.) Gandydancer (talk) 21:23, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

=======================================================================================

It is a very odd thing. I posted some information about the NRDC lawsuit on the talk page, mostly just pointing out that the case was not open and shut. The new "EPA" editor has no more power than you or I. He might have some very good technical data that would be helpful...but he is just another editor. Any EPA sources about the EPA fall under WP:PRIMARY and that makes most of the proposals for Clothianidin moot. I'll WP:AGF and if it gets out of hand I can always give my Senator a call and see what she thinks. Yes they do actually take calls. Really.

And no I'm not stalking you. I'm stalking others:) -- ArtifexMayhem (talk) 15:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

http://www.buzzaboutbees.net/support-files/theobald-comments-on-epa-response.pdf Gandydancer (talk) 22:23, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I had them as separate documents and was just starting a cut and paste so I could follow along...Good timing:) -- ArtifexMayhem (talk) 22:32, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Hmmmm...Pesticides: Germany bans chemicals linked to honeybee devastation from a very WP:RS WP:SECONDARY source. -- ArtifexMayhem (talk) 23:57, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Well it says right here that "Several European countries have suspended the use of certain pesticides in response to incidents involving acute poisoning of honey bees". That is right straight from the EPA horse's mouth. http://www.epa.gov/opp00001/about/intheworks/ccd-european-ban.html And then on the talk page he asks me: "do you have a credible citation for your claim that Germany changed its laws because of the 2008 incident? You seem to be basing your position on an uncited assumption." Actually I never claimed that, but as a matter of fact, er yes, the EPA said that and I assume that they are a credible citation. I did a fair amount of research on this and the lawsuit some time ago and my memory is slowly coming back to me. The "study" that Bayer did was an absolute joke - that is well-covered somewhere, though I don't remember exactly where. After that was pointed out to the EPA they demoted the study, but the years go on and on to eternity and in the meantime another untested chemical is still being used. At the very least it should be required by law that the sticker be used.Gandydancer (talk) 01:20, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

The primary sources all have the same story..."Somebody (aka a customer that buys our product) used the product incorrectly and it is not our fault...blah, blah, blah...Clothianidin is really great for reasons x,y,z"..some of these reasons are probably valid and warrant inclusion if secondary sources back them up..."so stop bad mouthing our product...blah, blah". It will be a challenge sorting out the propaganda (from both sides)....yippee. Should we move this back towards the talk page and start a bit of a re-write with some of these sources? We'll need more but I'm sure they are out there. -- ArtifexMayhem (talk) 01:40, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Well there are plenty of facts that are available. According to the EPA's own paper on clothianidin it is HIGHLY toxic to bees. It was a perfect storm set of circumstances that caused the big German die-off and certainly in that case it was not properly used. Is it harmful to bees when used as directed? That remains unknown. When Bayer finally did their study it was a joke and under pressure the EPA eventually had to agree that further testing was needed. It is widely believed that neonicotinoids are involved in CCD because even in very small amounts these pesticides are nerve poisons and may impair a bee's ability to return to the hive and also impair their immune system, leaving it much more susceptible to attacks by parasitic fungi and other diseases. THEN THEIR LITTLE LIVES ARE ABORTED AND THEY ARE NO LONGER VIABLE!!! As if that were not bad enough, I think they may die as well. Gandydancer (talk) 12:22, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Yes. The EU has a note on toxicity that includes information on the bee navigation problems. I've learned heaps in the past few days. Bees are cool. I think the Imidacloprid is a good template for the Clothianidin article with the exception that Clothianidin should/must/shall include a section on the controversies. I must admit it takes me ages to write prose (I suck at grammar et al. and tend to be self-conscious about it) so I'll also be getting some of the technical stuff in order. I'll also start a page for sources in my user space and post a link (Sometimes sources are sources of sources and may not get a ref link in the article so I like having them on a seperate reference page.) -- ArtifexMayhem (talk) 16:09, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

You suck? I suck a lot more than you suck! For some people the words just flow like honey but not me - for me it is molasses in January. Bees are cool and I've kept hives - I don't have them going this year. Bees have gotten to be very expensive the last few years due to CCD and it is easy to lose hives in our cold Maine winters. Art, I don't write well but I am pretty good at editing other people's stuff. It's quite odd. I can even edit my own stuff if I put it aside for awhile. I've written one article, Granite, Colorado. I've also written most of Gandy dancer. That's a good article if you like blues music and trains... Gandydancer (talk) 16:46, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Well if you can copy edit the disjointed fact filled crap I write then all will be good :)

Nice work on Granite and Grandy dancer (never knew the term). I've actually hiked out of Granite. I grew up in Texas and we skied Crested Butte (an article in need of expansion btw) every winter and hiked the area every summer. Truly spectacular. -- ArtifexMayhem (talk) 17:18, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Pesticide Action Network Gandydancer (talk) 19:51, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

"suspended the use" ≠ "changed their laws"

Hello Gandydancer. In your 01:20, 30 June 2011 post above, you pasted the following quote from EPA's website: "Several European countries have suspended the use of certain pesticides in response to incidents involving acute poisoning of honey bees". You then quote from a question I asked you on the clothianidin talk page: "do you have a credible citation for your claim that Germany changed its laws because of the 2008 incident? You seem to be basing your position on an uncited assumption." You follow this up with the statement: "Actually I never claimed that, but as a matter of fact, er yes, the EPA said that and I assume that they are a credible citation."

As a reminder, here's the statement you actually made: "For instance, the Germany incident - if this incident actually did result in the German decision to change their laws re its use, I would feel that that is notable information and within the guidelines of Misplaced Pages policy."

I apologize for incorrectly stating that you "claimed" the Germans changed their laws as a result of the incident. It would have been more accurate for me to say you first posited that the Germans "changed their laws" as a result of the incident, then you used that uncited hypothesis to justify your "feel that that is notable information and within the guidelines of Misplaced Pages policy." Unfortunately, your hypothesis that the Germans "changed their laws" was baseless.

The text you quoted from USEPA's web page does not say, imply or infer that "Germany changed its laws" (italics added) because of the incident; the exact phrase is "suspended the use." What Germany changed was not the "law," but rather the registration status of a use or uses of a pesticide. This is not an insignificant distinction.

For example, USEPA has in the past suspended and cancelled uses of many pesticides (e.g. DDT). The agency takes these actions consistent with established regulations, which are based on federal law. "Changing the law" requires an Act of Congress (ie a REALLY REALLY big thing). While approving, suspending, or cancelling a pesticide use isn't small potatoes, it's generally not even in the same order of magnitude as an act of congress. It is my understanding that German laws and pesticide regulatory decisions use roughly the same processes as we do in the U.S. So when you posited that the Germans "changed their laws" you substantively misstated the facts, which--coincidentally?--promotes a biased point of view by inferring a greatly exaggerated version of the actual facts of the matter.

The cumulative effect on public perception of little (and, no doubt, innocent) slips like this one are the reason I am tasked by USEPA with trying to bring NPOV to some of Misplaced Pages's pesticide chemical pages. The more these innocent little slips show up, the longer I'm going to have to be around. Peace --USEPA James (talk) 21:58, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Maybe a simple "FYI: They changed a regulation not a law" would have been more appropriate. Assuming good faith is important. Please read this one free clue. - ArtifexMayhem (talk) 22:34, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

An unbiased reading of the quoted text from USEPA should have precluded the need for FYIs. And given the extensive commentary above, a more detailed explanation seemed more appropriate. It's ironic that you would mention AGF. From AGF Demonstrate good faith:

In addition to assuming good faith, encourage others to assume good faith by demonstrating your own good faith. You can do this by articulating your honest motives and by making edits that show your willingness to compromise, interest in improving Misplaced Pages, adherence to policies and guidelines, belief in the veracity of your edits, avoidance of gaming the system, and other good-faith behavior. Showing good faith is not required, but it aids smooth and successful interactions with editors.

Compromise? Adherence to policies and guidelines? Food for thought... --USEPA James (talk) 15:01, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

James, that you would try to weave a picture of the danger being done to the reputation of the EPA by the accidental use of the word law rather than regulation on a Misplaced Pages talk page is just absolutely ludicrous. And that you should attempt to weave my mistake into some sort of dark intent "which--coincidentally?--promotes a biased point of view by inferring a greatly exaggerated version of the actual facts of the matter" and blowing a simple mistake on my part into a wild fantasy of yours is like something out of a soap opera. You then seem to have a change of heart and you assure me that you are sure it was a "little (and, no doubt, innocent) slip" that has brought bias to the pages of Misplaced Pages, but by gosh you're going to be on the look out for more of these so-called innocent slips in the future. I hope that as you continue to work on the articles you will come to realize that most editors are honest and hardworking, they are intelligent and able to use logical reason to come to a decision, and some of us like to have a little fun too. This is not fun. The next time I make a mistake please correct me rather than weave it into a dark plot to be revealed at a later date. Gandydancer (talk) 21:55, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Apology

Gandydancer, I am sorry I was rather sharp the other day in responce to a couple of your questions. I find it difficult to grasp what one other editor is saying at times. Sometimes it seems like editors just remember their last comment. Thankyou for your efforts at brokering a compromise. I have no problem acknowledging strengths in others arguments. What I think the problem is and you probably see this also is that there are two sets of editors, one wanting to hold on to a previous consensus, and another wanting to advance a new one. The thing is neither is wrong in wanting to either hold onto the existing consensus, or wanting to advance a new one. I tried the latter on another article and ended up topic banned! But that is all I can say about that. Yet here I am trying to defend an existing consensus that experienced admin say is the result of a hard won compromise, and I am getting blocked! Yes I agree with the existing consensus and so that makes it easier to defend. Yet what is causing this dispute - bad faith and misunderstanding? Probably. Neither side wishes to open the door too wide, for fear of what might slip in. The pro-choice leaning editors undoubtedly are leery of any mentioning of killing in the article, and might have a coronry if m....r slipped in. But seriously is that really a risk? On Misplaced Pages? The site leans at least slightly toward liberal views, if it didn't there would be no Conservapedia. Can you see a strong consensus being established for "Abortion is the killing of the unborn in the womb". Thats my view, but I don't see it having much possibility of making it into the article, and I would not try to push for it either, because while I have no problem with pro-life literature using this language, I know the difference between a pamphlet and an encyclopedia article. So as I see it pro-life concerns about the direction the article might take and is taking are more realistic than pro-choice concerns - it is not moving towards pro-life rhetoric. Do you see what I am saying? Best. DMSBel (talk) 22:08, 4 July 2011 (UTC)

By the way, in case you misunderstand. I want no rhetoric in the article, I don't want it to become an advocacy piece of any kind. But the advocacy issue is more pertinent to groups/organisations, than to dictionaries and definitions. Advocacy looks something like: "such and such pro-life group (or pro-choice group) is correct when they state:" - followed by quotation from afforementioned group. Statements from groups, individuals etc. can be placed neutrally in the article often by juxtaposing them with other statements. But in the definition, we have to concede to dictionaries, and where one is silent doesn't mean we can't supplement it by another. Best DMSBel (talk) 20:10, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your post. As for an apology, none is needed - I don't even remember the incident you speak of. Yes, I agree it is a very difficult situation. I don't feel either side is arguing with bad faith, but rather a deeply held belief. I can't speak for the other editors, but it is not my impression that they are concerned that words such as murder or killing might slip into the definition. It certainly is no concern of mine. It seems to me the the problem lies in the fact that one group of editors believes that life begins at the moment of conception and others say that while that may be true, there is no agreement in the world at large. That is why I feel that we have no choice but to use the definition used by 22 of our 24 sources (if I remember the actual count correctly). Best Gandydancer (talk) 16:27, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Gandy, Your attempt to summarize how the "death" editors might see the unfolding of the lede discussions is refreshing and welcome. I think it would be important to include: 1) something about the behavior of several editors who changed the lede without respecting the FAQ (and also changed the FAQ) and 2) the fact that not one death editor has argued anything about personhood and instead has relied upon science and medicine and 3) the most popular English-langauge medical dictionary (and regular dictionary) includes death in the definition (it is the top medical dictionary at Amazon and the online dictionary used by the NIH's MEDline. 71.3.232.238 (talk) 17:21, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you 71. I feel that your info re the medical dictionary is very important. I feel that it will offer food for thought to both those for and against including the term in the definition. I've added your suggestions to the talk page. Gandydancer (talk) 18:14, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Gandy, It is nice to have my comments acknowledged, as well, even though I choose not to register. Thank you (not sure if you have already acknowledged my comments before, but I want to thank you in this instance regardless). One more thing to consider including: The word "death" is used by some abortion clinic websites (a link was posted on the Abortion talk page over the past 2 weeks) designed to explain to potential patients what happens during an abortion. Also, some abortion providers and lobbyists and advocates with excellent abortion advocacy bona fides have candidly stated that a living fetus is killed/dies (they have used both terms) in an abortion (links have been posted to such statements over the past few weeks). This usage of alive/death by abortion providers and advocates bolsters the notion that the words are appropriate and not de facto POV. And, while not the same as WP:RS, these citations all affirm the plentiful WP:RS that do verify "death" as an objective fact. 71.3.232.238 (talk) 18:29, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I feel that the issues you bring up are important and appropriate for the article. In fact very important. From the posts that I have read on the talk page most or perhaps all of the editors have no problem with including this sort of information in the body of the article. But for our definition I believe that we must strictly adhere to Misplaced Pages's NPOV standards. When our (U.S. - I live in the U.S.) Supreme Court said in the Roe v. Wade decision that there is not yet an agreement on when life begins, it certainly would take more than a handful of wikipedia editors to change my mind. From their court opinion:

We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate."

Gandydancer (talk) 19:08, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

The WP abortion article also "need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins". Yet you seem to be insisting that it must. HOWEVER, the difficult question the court posed is not medical or biological life, but personhood life (which is a philosophical and legal concept). The biology is clear: the fetus is alive and a spontaneous or induced abortion can only occur if that fetus dies. You seem to be imposing the philosophy of personhood into the lede when in fact the lede is broader than human abortion and includes other species. Why do you impose such meaning onto a plain, objective and accurate descrition? A gestating dog fetus is alive - and it is either born alive or aborted. What about the CDC discussion about how to code a fetal death versus an induced abortion (of a not "already-dead fetus")? I am not trying to trip you up, but if you can't see the objective nature of the life and death of a fetus (immaterial to its personhood) then that is where your view is opposed to what remains the consensus version of the lede (the 2006 version with death). The consensus has been to inform readers up front in the first sentence "in an abortion a fetus dies and exits the womb." This applies to all abortions. As I have stated again and again, if no fetus dies, there is no abortion. How can you advocate that a fact necessary for every abortion be left out of the lede? 71.3.232.238 (talk) 19:34, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll tell you why in a nutshell (and I have posted this on the talk page as well). It is the little gem of a post I read as I reviewed the 2006 discussion. That editor changed his/her mind based on the fact that saying before viability did not discount the death of the fetus (person, non-person, animal, whatever...), but death did not do the same. That is not very well explained - perhaps you want to look it up. Anyway, I have no desire to discuss this issue on my talk page when I have expressed these very same thoughts on the article talk page. Gandydancer (talk) 19:56, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

Knowing that there are lawful abortion procedures designed for the express purpose of killing a viable fetus, and that those procedures are in lawful use today, I am stunned that you would want to discuss and defend any reference to viability. Of course years ago the abortion of a viable fetus was unthinkable and it was called infanticide. But times have changed, and today we call it a late-term abortion. As you said, I will continue on the article talk page. Cheers. 71.3.232.238 (talk) 20:18, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

If the fact that I value the life of the mother as well makes me a baby killer in your book, so be it. Please do not make any further posts on my talk page as I will just delete them. Gandydancer (talk) 20:33, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

If I might comment, I realise this is your talk page, but I don't think the IP was saying that you are a baby killer. Would you mind sending me a link to the part of the 2006 discussion that you refer to. DMSBel (talk) 00:23, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm sorry DMS, I just could not possibly go through all thse pages and find it again! I did copy it on our current talk page (I think...) if you want to look there for it. I know you are sincere in your beliefs and are just doing what you feel is right, but this is one thing we will never agree on. Gandydancer (talk) 00:40, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Its got nothing to do with "feelings". Would you mind linking to the comment please in the archive. You seemed to think it important. DMSBel (talk) 14:17, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Clothianidin edit conflict.

I had an edit conflict with you on Clothianidin. Please check it and let me know if I have caused errors in your edit. ArtifexMayhem (talk) 01:31, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

No, it seems OK. Art, what is this?: http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Chemicals/Log/2011-07-08 Please read my edit and let me know what you think. Gandydancer (talk) 01:38, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

That is a bot generated report of some kind. Looks like it watches for odd citations. ArtifexMayhem (talk) 03:29, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

BTW, did you know that he complained at the CHEM site about you? Gandydancer (talk) 01:41, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Yup. ArtifexMayhem (talk) 03:30, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

And this: OTOH, it's also been somewhat amusing to observe editors who make little effort to hide their biases with regard to pesticide chemicals object to my mere presence here. Anyway, thanks for the comments. --USEPA James (talk) 15:58, 7 July 2011 (UTC) Gandydancer (talk) 04:20, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Gandydancer. You have new messages at NuclearWarfare's talk page.
Message added 01:31, 14 July 2011 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Missed your post earlier, sorry. NW (Talk) 01:31, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Porky Pig and blue christmas

I agree the porky pig version just has it over Bing's, but only by a scratch. That said, I hate it when they change the words - white christmas - blue christmas! LOL. ] DMSBel (talk) 18:13, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Wired magazine?

My guess is that Wired magazine is not a reliable source. In general, your recent edits on methyl iodide verge on pushing a POV and overly dramatic (Nobelists out defending the fetus, the elderly...). Much of the content is almost provincial (i.e., WP:UNDUE undue weight is given) - about the US province/state of California. My guess is that most readers of Misplaced Pages are not from the US, much less California. When WP articles on chemicals are written in an unbalanced way, the very environmental issues of interest are subverted and disserved. At least in my opinion.--Smokefoot (talk) 22:16, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Would you please move these comments to the appropriate talk pages? Thanks. Gandydancer (talk) 23:23, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Well, I hope that I was not being a jerk and that you dont drop out on helping with the chem-pesticide articles. We need diverse voices. Let me see what I can do.--Smokefoot (talk) 01:51, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

No you weren't being a jerk at all! When I made that edit I really was not trying to pull a tear-jerker, unborn babies and all, but when I went and read it I realized how correct you were. It was way overdone and it was good of you to point it out. As for the California comment, I don't live in CA, I live in Maine, but I am very much aware that many people believe that farm workers and others in CA (and elsewhere) are being exposed to dangerous chemicals. I know that you look at these articles from a chemistry point of view, but I look at them from a pesticide point of view. The organophosphates for instance have had a great deal of bad press lately and I don't know where else it would go other than the article of their name. I feel that these comments balance the article rather than being inappropriate. I try to keep my editing fun so as to not get so frustrated that I quit editing. I do not really enjoy controversy but sometimes it is unavoidable. I even went back to the rutabaga article today, after 2 years, and again am attempting to put "my" turnip/jack-o-lantern information in - this time I will be no more Mr. Nice Guy. :D Well, I was critical of you to bring your comments to my talk page rather than the article, but it seems you were right about that too! It is good to talk to you in a civil manner and we can still be just as blunt as we please at the article pages! Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 02:37, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Gandydancer

Hello Gandydancer
I put a reply at User talk:Peter Horn#Rail transport. Peter Horn User talk 23:13, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Formal mediation has been requested

The Mediation Committee has received a request for formal mediation of the dispute relating to "Abortion". As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. Mediation is a voluntary process which resolves a dispute over article content by facilitation, consensus-building, and compromise among the involved editors. After reviewing the request page, the formal mediation policy, and the guide to formal mediation, please indicate in the "party agreement" section whether you agree to participate. Because requests must be responded to by the Mediation Committee within seven days, please respond to the request by January 5, 2011.

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Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 19:43, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

My apologies

for the Talk:Abortion thing. As someone who feels just as strongly, if not more so, as you on the other side of the debate, I should be the last one questioning your ability to edit the article. NYyankees51 (talk) 19:53, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Your revert here violates the 1RR sanction on abortion articles; I have to report it. NYyankees51 (talk) 20:10, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:GandyDancer reported by User:NYyankees51 (Result: ) Normally I wouldn't do this as someone who has violated 1RR several times on accident, but you have continued to do it after I apologized above. NYyankees51 (talk) 20:14, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Request for mediation rejected

The request for formal mediation concerning Abortion, to which you were listed as a party, has been declined. To read an explanation by the Mediation Committee for the rejection of this request, see the mediation request page, which will be deleted by an administrator after a reasonable time. Please direct questions relating to this request to the Chairman of the Committee, or to the mailing list. For more information on forms of dispute resolution, other than formal mediation, that are available, see Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution.

For the Mediation Committee, AGK 14:53, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

You're being discussed at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard

You've been listed as a disputant at the Dispute Resolution Noticeboard. The thread in question is Rutabaga. Have a nice day. Hasteur (talk) 13:05, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

Rutabaga-O-Lanterns

Hello, I saw the request for dispute resolution at WP:DRN and I think I might be able to help mediate the dispute. I have some experience as a mediator (I was even a member of WP:MEDCOM briefly) and would be interested in helping find a solution to the current dispute. -- Atama頭 17:19, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

OK - thanks. Gandydancer (talk) 18:11, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I finally found the time to get it started, I just opened the discussion on the article's talk page. If we end up overwhelming the talk page we can always move it to a subpage if necessary. Feel free to give your opinion about my summary and to add any other issues you'd like to discuss, thank you. -- Atama頭 20:54, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:To-do list/to do

Hi Gandydancer, I've rolled back your blanking of that page, because it needs at least some text on it. Graham87 14:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

COI

Have you declared a conflict of interest at Misplaced Pages?Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:04, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

What on earth are you talking about? Gandydancer (talk) 04:09, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

A person by the name of Kim Gandy is a past president of the National Organization for Women (an article that you've edited), and she has two daughters (as you've said you do). I haven't bothered looking into this much, but just in case I wanted to bring WP:COI to your attention. Cheers.Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:22, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

You are a very, very strange person. Gandydancer (talk) 20:03, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Please see WP:Civil also. I assure you there's nothing strange about bringing the COI policy to the attention of someone who may have a COI. Have a nice day.Anythingyouwant (talk)

Listen, I am being civil when I merely suggest you are being strange. To come on my talk page and ask "Have you declared a conflict of interest at Misplaced Pages?" based on the fact that my name contains the word "gandy" and the fact Kim Gandy is a past president of NOW, "an article that have edited" (once!), and that we both have two daughters is, IMO, far beyond "strange". I think it is either just plain looney or an attempt to smear my name and suggest that I just may have a COI that should prevent me from expressing my opinion on the Abortion article, since that is the only article that we both have contributed to extensively. Gandy dancer Gandydancer (talk) 21:15, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

You now have been informed of the COI policy. If it's not relevant to you, then please disregard it. I really don't have anything to add, except to deny your accusation that I am "looney" or "smearing" you. I'm simply telling you about the COI policy. Cheers.Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:35, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Gandydancer, I too have an important policy to tell you about: WP:STALK. JJL (talk) 23:50, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks JJL. I thought about it and decided to just ignore Anythingyouwant's strange attempts to educate me. Gandydancer (talk) 00:06, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Former NOW president Kim Gandy was born in 1954. Per Talk:Elvis_Presley#Haley.2FSnow.2FPresley_ad, editor Gandydancer was "one of those screaming girls" who adored Elvis in the 1950s. Unless "screaming girls" includes screaming infants, the accusation of COI appears to have no foundation. Binksternet (talk) 23:18, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

I do not care to be followed around and have my comments from other articles spread around. If it was my desire to let this idiotic topic drop, I feel that that should be respected by strangers. I choose the name Gandydancer when I joined in 2003 because it represents to me a spirit of working together in a joyful manner and getting work done through cooperation - work that would not be possible to accomplish any other way. See "my" article Gandy dancer which I have worked on extensively. End of discussion, I hope. Gandydancer (talk) 00:01, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Virginia Earthquake Impact

Hi... I saw your edit this morning of the impact section. It's basically a reorganization of the information that was there, which is great, but I can't see support for this: "A magnitude 5.5 eastern U.S. earthquake can usually be felt as far as 300 miles (500 km) from where it occurred, and sometimes causes damage as far away as 25 miles (40 km)." in the source given for that paragraph. Do you have another source? It would be great to add if we can properly source it. Cheers! Wikipelli 11:57, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

ArbCom Case: Abortion

This message is to inform you that you have been added as a party to a currently open Arbitration case, Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abortion, per Arbitrator instructions. You may provide evidences and comments at Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Abortion/Evidence.

For the Arbitration Committee,
- Penwhale | 01:19, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Marvelous addition

Thanks for adding good information to the article about Opposition to the legalization of abortion. Cheers! Binksternet (talk) 23:03, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Yodeling

Hello, Gandydancer. You have new messages at Sabrebd's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

"You believe it improved the wording" - how exactly?DMSBel (talk) 23:42, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Yodelling reference

I think I found the reference you were looking for - I posted it on the Talk page at Yodelling. --HighKing (talk) 00:00, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

A cheeseburger for you!

OMFG YOU DESERVE ONE FOR YOU INCESSANT NEED TO LIBERALIZE EVERY PAGE! S51438 (talk) 03:38, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

FYI

I wasn't sure what you were referring to on the talk page, and you had me confused with your response. The page history shows that Lihaas (talk · contribs) removed the see also section. His edit summary said something about replacing it with a template. Viriditas (talk) 13:48, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Nevermind. I've removed the article from my watchlist. Viriditas (talk) 13:56, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Copyedit help needed

Hello Gandy, may you give an hand to correct my English please. That's well sourced, and far more serious than to report the breast photography, and just 7 lines wrote by myself. Easy to manage for a native speaker. May you help ? Yug (talk) 12:30, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Hi Yug, I left a note on the talk page asking for the refs. About your English, I really felt bad when I left a note saying it was not very good. To be clear, it certainly is "good enough" for conversation - I'm sure that we'd understand each other perfectly well if we were to have a conversation. But for the article, you frequently arrange your sentences incorrectly and some of the words that you choose are "strange". Obviously you are very intelligent - it seems that you have learned to speak Chinese? - but I get the feeling that you have not had a chance to use English in conversation much, is that correct?

Also, it seems that you want the article to reflect the fact that some of the statements by those who oppose the protests are utterly and amazingly untrue. I don't know if the French use the phrase, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", but that is certainly what we are dealing with in the US right now. People watch Fox news and really do believe what they hear. They think that a more liberal news outlet is controlled by commies, socialists, or whoever else their anti-God and Country boggie men are. It won't do any good to edit the article to say that "Hannity, (for instance) was proved wrong...", and besides that is stating a POV in the article. But if you have another notable person that refuted his statements in an acceptable source, we'll see what we can do? Best, gandy Gandydancer (talk) 15:24, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Using fringe sources

The New American is not a RS for anything on Misplaced Pages except for information about the John Birch Society. Please do not continue to add it into Occupy Wall Street. If you would like clarification on this matter, feel free to start a noticeboard request over at Misplaced Pages:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. Thanks. Viriditas (talk) 08:22, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I find it hard to believe that I used this source. Exactly when did I use it? Gandydancer (talk) 12:38, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

This editor did not answer so I took it to his talk page. Anybody interested can read the discussion on his page. Gandydancer (talk) 15:08, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Occupy Wall Street

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		For your comments on the talk page, which are always polite, inclusive, and making Misplaced Pages a better place, thank you! LoveUxoxo (talk) 19:17, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup of park

The next time you find yourself about to delete relevant and sourced content because for organizational purposes, please reconsider. I would ask you to consider putting it elsewhere, but it was especially appropriate exactly where it was. I restored this content; please don't remove it again. Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 14:27, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

When the information offered is not covered in the reference it is appropriate to remove it, as I did. Gandydancer (talk) 15:06, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

Information seems to be missing from the body of the article.

Or I just couldn't find it. If it is not in the article already, using it for the lede is undue weight and will surely be disputed. Can you add this and see if it holds firm. The information itself seems more than reasonable but not if it is just summarizing the movement and not the information in the article.--Amadscientist (talk) 14:48, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

You mean the GA stuff that I just added? It is in the article under Focus. West made the "Democracy" statement and (I will paste) On October 11, Katrina vanden Heuvel, who writes a weekly column for The Post and is the editor and publisher of The Nation, said "most understand that the main task ahead is growing the movement", made the other statement. Does that answer your question? The reason that I feel that this section is important is that again and again one finds a reference to lack of goals throughout the article. Gandydancer (talk) 15:05, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

It does answer my question. I apologize if I sounded as if I was assuming bad faith. I am simply exhausted and half stupid at this point for staying up more than 4 hours past my bed time. I couldn't find the letter A in the article at this point. LOL! Good night(for me)...or good morning!--Amadscientist (talk) 15:17, 23 October 2011 (UTC)

OWS

Careful, you are on 3R on the article. Nice compromise on the last edit though, well done. The Last Angry Man (talk) 23:30, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Elizabeth Warren GA

At Talk:Elizabeth Warren/GA1, please let me strike out the text that I consider addressed or fixed. Binksternet (talk) 05:02, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry that I have caused a problem. A Misplaced Pages Review is new to me and it seems I don't understand the process. I am more used to working with other editors rather than "under" another editor, so as to speak. Gandydancer (talk) 15:38, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

No sweat! It's just my lil' ol' personal preference for GANs that I'm helming. It helps me keep track. Thanks for being flexible! Binksternet (talk) 18:56, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes I am flexible but I have no idea what a GAN is. It is a surprise to me that I need you to check my edits before they can be crossed off the list. When I made comments such as "how's this?", I was not speaking to you. I thought I was speaking to other editors. Perhaps it would help to improve Misplaced Pages relationships if you would point editors to a wiki page that explains the process you are using. I realize that I am coming across as a little peeved and that's because I am. It does not seem reasonable to me that you should use the talk page for your personal score sheet. In my years of editing Misplaced Pages I have thought of myself as being on an equal playing field with other editors and have recently had to deal with the fact that Misplaced Pages allows paid employees of government agencies to edit articles (see talk page Clothianidin). That experience has left a bitter taste in my mouth.

Since many of my interests/edits are related to "underdog" issues, this has resulted in my fear of seeing "experts" taking over our encyclopedia. My area of experience/expertise is in the medical field and I have seen it happen to Wiki medical articles. So yes, my hackles do raise at times. Clearly you are interested in improving Warren's article-but is it possible that a wolf in sheep's clothing reviewer could "improve" it as well? Gandydancer (talk) 19:45, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the alphabet soup. WP:GAN is Misplaced Pages:Good article nomination. The practice for reviewing an article to see whether it is at the level of WP:Good article is to have one or more editors review it, with one editor responsible for determining whether the article will be listed at WP:GA. Because I accepted the responsibility and began the review, I am that editor who will determine whether the article is GA. This is the 29th time I've reviewed an article submitted to GAN, and I've submitted 24 articles myself, so I am pretty familiar with the process. However, the process as practiced varies by editor. Some use a handy template and check off points all in one go. Others identify problems point by point, like I do, then put the article on hold for improvements.

Other editors are always welcome to add their comments to the GA review process, and the one responsible editor should include those concerns in the final decision. You are welcome to make comments and to make fixes to the article. So are other editors such as AmbidexeterNH and Davemck who both made observations on the talk page. I am glad you and these other editors are involved—more eyes are better.

Regarding using the talk page as a personal scoreboard: There is a special page for GA reviews, and it is usually "transcluded" to the talk page of the article during the period of review. The special page is specifically intended to serve as a scoreboard. Transclusion just makes sure that the page is not orphaned or unseen; that it shows on the talk page. The special page is here: Talk:Elizabeth_Warren/GA1. When the GAN is done, I will remove the transclusion and that section will disappear from the talk page except for a small link I will put up near the top. Once that's done, I'm just another editor, on an equal playing field, limited only to whatever leverage I can get from the power of my arguments.

I'm sorry you are peeved by my review style but that was not my intent. Misplaced Pages is a crazy little world, but it's a project worth working on, in my opinion. I appreciate your work and look forward to seeing more of it. When I get a chance, I might stumble over to OWS and see what you are working toward—what challenges the page has.

I doubt I will check deeply into the Clothianidin article because I am not familiar with the topic, except that I have heard of the seriousness of the decline of honeybees. I greatly regret that editors with a conflict of interest can sometimes skew an article. That is a problem that is widespread on Misplaced Pages, and it will only get worse as Misplaced Pages becomes more prominent, as it increasingly becomes the first resource used by people who want straight-up information about a subject. As the frequent first resource, Misplaced Pages becomes the target of folks who want to shine a good light on things they are connected to, or a bad light on their enemies or competitors. Last year around this time, I had a very hard time with the article Coanda-1910 at which a group of Romanians wanted to have the article plainly state that the little-known airplane was, in 1910, the first jet. Through a laborious process, a group of other editors including myself brought together the minor Romanian viewpoint and the mainstream viewpoint to make an article that successfully tells both stories. It was tough working with conflicted editors who wanted a positive article and nothing else.

Try to stay cool! Internal bitterness might be reworked to create cool resolve; resolve to make sure a neutral point of view is always present. WP:Neutral point of view is one of the most important parts of Misplaced Pages! If you have trouble with someone who is not holding to that ideal, start a discussion about it at the WP:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard. And give me shout if you wish; I'll look at the problem if I have time.

Regarding experts, only the non-neutral ones are a problem. Pure expertise is a benefit, not a hindrance.

Yes, I am newly interested in improving the Elizabeth Warren article. To be perfectly honest, I had not paid attention to her until accepting the article for GA review. I have learned a lot in a few days! Because she's a candidate for senator, her article should be as complete as possible, and of course it should be neutral, with both positive and negative aspects portrayed with proper weight and as calmly as possible. After the article reaches GA quality, I may well jump in as just another editor and continue to add material in an effort to get it up to WP:Featured article level, the top level at Misplaced Pages. As a lifelong Californian, I have no horse in the Massachusetts senate race, so I think of myself as a relatively impartial editor. Whatever remaining prejudices I may have about her politics I hope I will be able to rise above them to help build an article that is equally readable by persons who want Warren to win her race and persons who do not. If you continue to stay tuned to the article, I will appreciate your help and your "underdog" viewpoint. Binksternet (talk) 23:55, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Of continued interest

Per Talk:Occupy_Wall_Street/Archive_7 you were in favor of adding the wikilink Global financial system. Are you still? Also see Talk:"Occupy" protests # Wikilink global financial system. 99.109.126.95 (talk) 23:08, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

hmm, are you certain I am the person with whom you are speaking? Gandydancer (talk) 23:15, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

ows

Hey, would you mind just pointing me to the discussion of this?. It seems worthy of inclusion on the face of it. B——C_ritical 19:48, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Yup, it was very interesting. But long and involved. In short: Seems that the group has split into two distinct groups with one wanting no goals and the other adamant about goals. So they all signed up for the Goals Working Group, had a sneaky meeting on a day most people were on some big march, wrote um up and published um. So when the no-goals people found out they were furious. They have a media contact, Kingkade from Huff Post. So he published the info.

Disruptive editor D wrote it up for WP as though it was settled, now they have goals, and some blogs said that as well. I changed D's post saying it had not been voted on. Eventually it was decided that the refs were not good enough, and I agree. I spent a fair amount of time looking at them - that is discussed on Talk. Our photographer said a couple of weeks into the protest that even then a strong split was beginning to develop between the two factions. From what I have seen around the web, the young folks and wise old folks want no goals (for now) and the older people are not comfortable with that. I wished we could have kept the "goals are for terrorists" quote, but it had to go. Hope this helps... Gandydancer (talk) 20:47, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Oh......... yes sounds like it shouldn't be there unless you can source what you just wrote above. I personally thought that the "demands are for terrorists" quote was silly and detracted from any legitimacy the protests have in a manner which wasn't very substantive, just rhetorical. Thanks for taking all that time to explain! B——C_ritical 21:59, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Giggle

Wait, wait ... you wanted to include it and yet you have not been battling tooth and nail to include it, no matter the cost? Inconceivable! Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 21:35, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

You will need to explain that because I have no idea what you are talking about. Gandydancer (talk) 21:45, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry about that. It was a tongue-in-cheek response to your recent comment at OWS talk ("Believe me I tried! I wanted to include it but it never made it beyond a Huff Post blogger."). It was meant to contrast with the conduct of another user who also wanted very much to include the 99% declaration bit. I posted it at article talk then realized it was probably not the best place to put it.

Failed attempt at a joke, I guess. Centrify (f / k / a FCAYS) (talk) (contribs) 22:07, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Well thank Gawd it was just a joke! I was starting to wonder if any sane ones were left! It did cheer me up when I knew you were kidding. Gandydancer (talk) 07:21, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Background or Overview. I figured a month long protest didn't have the history for true "background" and reason that overview is used on many articles. Not something I feel strongly about. Just an attempt at a neutral header.--Amadscientist (talk) 07:06, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, but you will see I've got it fixed now so that it only includes stuff prior to the Sept. 17 start day, so that's why I changed it. BTW, on one hand I was so happy to get the criticism today, but on the other hand, I doubt that anyone can imagine what we are dealing with. So many times I have thought, oh good finally things have slowed down so we can get some control over the article and the next day all hell breaks loose again. Well, good to hear from you. Gandydancer (talk) 07:21, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, but I'll pass

I'm glad you found the assessment helpful, and I'm willing to look at things if you need an uninvolved pair of eyes, but... honestly, good luck. There are a couple of people on that talk page who appear to be of the activist bent. I had a "fun" time with that a little while ago, and honestly talking to activists is like talking to religious fanatics: they have the WP:TRUTH, and they aren't going to listen. I'm not really active enough on the project to be a big help anyway. My preferred long-term solution would be a more rigorous enforcement of WP:NOTNEWS, but I know that's not likely to happen. SDY (talk) 22:27, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Kitties for hard work and because cuteness can help with stress reduction. :)

LauraHale (talk) 20:26, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Ditto. The woman issue is where I met our mutual friend. He sent an article to the new article incubator that had been deleted as non-notable after finding it on the gender gap list. (THAT bothers me, men's rights type activists trolling a list for intended to help increase female participation.) He made similar non-existent, not supported by research connections including that roller derby was like pornography, and that roller derby disturbed him because he had been a victim of female on male domestic violence and the sport's glorification of violence (it doesn't) appears to encourage that. Against the support of the roller derby contributors, argued the lack of accepting the article was based on discrimination against women. His arguments made it harder for the roller derby editors because we couldn't argue related to the sport as kept wrongly crying discrimination against women. Erk. Erk. Erk. :/ He offered non-apology I apologies, and refused to back up his claims. This was coupled with doing copyright violations with uploading non-free images, then sticking them in articles that had ZERO to do with the topic so he could use them on incubator. He appeared in #wikipedia-en-help to complain and gave that bad advice to another WP:AGF editor who was working on another article. (He had been told on wiki and in chat that doing that could lead to blocking.) Beyond that, he showed up in #wikimieda-gendergap to basically slam and complain about me. Anyone who has to deal with our friend on a consistent basis deserves far more than a kitten. --LauraHale (talk) 18:50, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Tinychat?

Do you think it would be helpful to try to communicate via Tinychat? Dualus (talk) 21:41, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36878803/ns/technology_and_science-science/