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Talk:Kosovo: Old resolved discussions are archived at Talk:Kosovo/Archive 1, Talk:Kosovo/Archive 2, Talk:Kosovo/Archive 3, Talk:Kosovo/Archive 4 and Talk:Kosovo/Archive 5

Road to compromise?

I am not one of the participants in this dispute and revert war, but I want to help you to find compromise instead of constant revert wars. Here is the proposal: why not discuss your changes one by one, and solve problems one by one. Here I will list the various disputes from the article and the users who participate in this edit war could discuss these problems one by one PANONIAN (talk) 01:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Anyone has the power to ban irresponsible (read: people who do not discuss here first, and do not provide their neutral sources) who revert content all the time? Asterion keeps doing that, without reading what and why it was changed. Someone ban Asterion vandal!!! Ilir pz 00:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem 1: Serbian or Albanian name in infobox

My opinion is that since both, Albanian and Serbian language are official in Kosovo, both names should be written. I do not have opinion whether Albanian or Serbian name should be written first (other users should discuss about that here). PANONIAN (talk) 01:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Both names could be used, but no "Metohija", as that is not recognized by any international body (besides Russian govt)Ilir pz 09:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

as this article is in English, I propose to use the English name only. So Kosovo only. I agree with ilir_pz about the Metohija part, which should not be used. Mark ma 09:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Please note User:Mark ma is one of the suspected sockpuppets of Ilir_pz. Asterion 21:26, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Asterion getting frustrated? Does it irritate you that we Albanians are united for one cause more than ever in history? I will write under my name as long as I can, and it will always be Ilir, as that is my given birth-name. Ilir pz 00:11, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm okay with the albanian names, as long as there are serbian ones also. The order doesn't matter.

Problem 2: map in infobox

I also do not have opinion which one of the two maps should be included, so, please post the arguments why one of them should be here instead of another. PANONIAN (talk) 01:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

As long as the status is not defined, the map where Kosovo is within the map of SCG should NOT be used. Instead a compromise could be using a map where Kosovo is clearly seen in the map of Europe, but not as a part of SCG. No way! Ilir pz 09:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

It is better to have a map where people can see where Kosovo is located in Europe, and not be marked as a part of any country, as it is not. Let the status definitions clear that out later, even in the map. Below somewhere there could be a map showing the locations in Kosovo itself. Mark ma 09:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Please note User:Mark ma is one of the suspected sockpuppets of Ilir_pz. Asterion 21:26, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem 3: The preface part

The dispute here is how status of Kosovo is currently defined, so please discuss this question here. PANONIAN (talk) 01:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

International interim administration in Kosovo, and as a result the govts that have installed it, referr to it as a "territory under UN administration". That is what it says in my travel document, that is how people send me mail "Kosovo(UNMIK)" etc. Ilir pz 09:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know Kosovo is a UN administered region, and not a part of any country. Let me know if I did not hear any status talks being concluded, and I've been asleep for a long time. Mark ma 09:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Please note User:Mark ma is one of the suspected sockpuppets of Ilir_pz. Asterion 21:46, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Problem 4: KLA and ethnic cleansing in the preface part

Well, for the NPOV presentation, both the reference to the "separatist KLA by then considered a terrorist organization" and to the "Serbian Army attempted to purge the region of ethnic Albanians" should be removed from preface part by my opinion as clear "bad faith" edits. You discuss these four questions for now, and if you find compromise about them, we can move to other questions. I will not further participate in the discussion about these four questions, I just offered my proposals how to solve them. PANONIAN (talk) 01:18, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Saying who is a terrorist in a war is very subjective. If we count number of wars and attrocities JNA is the worst terrorist organization. No definition of terrorism should be mentioned in this article, if we are to be neutral. Ilir pz 09:42, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

I think commenting this is too much. I don't recall KLA having gone to Kragujevac attacking the local population there. If I am not mistaken it was paramilitary, police, and military units of Serbia who did that in Kosovo. So let us not dig in now as the truth is recognized by all the world...hence the bombing of terrorists by NATO. Mark ma 09:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Please note User:Mark ma is one of the suspected sockpuppets of Ilir_pz. Asterion 21:46, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Asterion, the fun of my day, keep going. You entertain me more than anyone these days. Wish we could have a coffee together in a Prizren caféIlir pz 00:21, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Ilir, why do you call yourself Ilir. The only ones who can claim to be of Illyrian origin are Croats, and some Serbs. Unsigned edit by User:Gianni ita

Thanks for wondering Gianni_ita, but that is my given birthname. You are not God of History to tell me who CAN and who CANNOT claim to be of some origin. No need to comment further with you. regards,Ilir pz 00:21, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, I see. So that doesn't have to do anything with the Illyrians. Gianni_ita

Gianni_ita, trying to piss me off? nah, not gonna work. Thank for trying. Others, anyone has the power to ban irresponsible (read: people who do not discuss here first, and do not provide their neutral sources) who revert content all the time? Asterion keeps doing that, without reading what and why it was changed. Someone ban Asterion vandal!!! Ilir pz 00:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Compromise

Dear Dardanv and others. First of all you don't have to be anonymous, and you don't have to do ridiculous threats. We can do a "wiki-war" if you want, I don't want it. You know I'm from a country who stoped participate in wars 1814!!! Still your are provocative and an extremist which I think is because there is alot of missunderstanding and ethnic phobia. I don't belong to any side and I don't sympathize with any more then the NPOV side. Everybody should be heard and not denied. So common.. I hope we can bury ALL nationalism and hatred with Milošević, even from your side (and please don't deny that it exist). Kosovo is lost to Serbia now (is what I belive) and then anybody can have their thoughts about it. But the most important thing is that all could work for a better future (without nationalism) in the Balkans. The world is not better until it is done. I think you can contribute most, in your own country. So why not prove you are better then the Serb nationalists and teach and support the NPOV side? If you want to continue with adding Albanian extremism into other articels and reverting we can sadly continue. But I hope/wish/beg you not... many thanks Litany

Anyone has the power to ban irresponsible (read: people who do not discuss here first, and do not provide their neutral sources) who revert content all the time? Asterion keeps doing that, without reading what and why it was changed. Someone ban Asterion vandal!!! Ilir pz 00:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

This is my opinion on PANONIANs proposal to compromise: 1. I think it should just be Kosovo, since this is the English version of Misplaced Pages. Or maybe Kosovo and then Albanian and Serbian? 2. I think the map over Serbia and Montenegro as long as Kosovo is a part of it. 3. It is "a province of Serbia and Montenegro, currently under UN administration", which is the truth. 4. I agree that it should be removed.. if you ask me if KLA is a terror organisation I would say yes, and JNA was not much better... Litany

1. Name should be Kosovo. 2. map should show where Kosovo is located in the region, but as it is not decided which country it belongs to, I don't think we should incorporate it in a map of Serbia. 4. We could check whether KLA is listed as a terrorist organization, and if yes, we list it as such in our article. (p.s. Don't check Serbian sourcs, please, let us keep neutral)

And to stress smth out to Litany, it is not a province of Serbia :), it is a territory under UN administration, as defined by UNMIK. Find one place in their official website where they mention it being a province of Serbia, and then we can discuss further. Let us respect Kosovo institutions which were democratically elected, and edit the article accordingly. Ben uk 10:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Please note User:Ben uk is one of the Suspected sockpuppets of Ilir pz. Asterion 21:46, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Frustrated Asterion again. You make my day:)Ilir pz 00:17, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Not sure it is worth replying to Asterion, but I will. First, yes, we have the same opinion with ilir_pz and many more, on the issues mentioned above. Eventually, if status negotiations fail, I will prove to you that 99% of Albanians in Kosova will share my view, with a referendum. That will shut the mouth to all those who don't want to see Kosova prosper. And as of your suspicion, based on using smileys, can't say much. Smileys have been around for a long time. And wide smileys, too, like the one I get when reading your frustrated comments :)))))). Ben uk 10:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

So, I suggest that you change in both versions things about which both sides agreed (To write only English name Kosovo in infobox, and to remove POV parts about Kosovo war from preface part), and then try to find compromise about another questions. PANONIAN (talk) 21:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

That is ok, PANONIAN, but when it comes to mentioning cities and locations of Kosovo, I suggest we use the double-naming system (Alb/Sr), as it is not fair using the Serbian notation and say "it is English". Do we also agree to remove any comments which are not unsigned? best,Ben uk 10:28, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Anyone has the power to ban irresponsible (read: people who do not discuss here first, and do not provide their neutral sources) who revert content all the time? Asterion keeps doing that, without reading what and why it was changed. Someone ban Asterion vandal!!! Ilir pz 00:40, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't feed trolls'. Best response to inflammatory remarks is to ignore them. Your threats in other talk pages have been noticed too. Regards, Asterion 00:51, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

You cannot remove comments posted by other people on the talk pages (it is against the rules of Misplaced Pages). As for city naming, until the final status of Kosovo is solved, I cannot say in what language names should be written for the cities. According to 1244 resolution, Kosovo is autonomous territory within Serbia-Montenegro, and currently Serbia-Montenegro have only one official language - Serbian. There are two possible solutions fot the final status of Kosovo:

• 1. independence, and
• 2. confederation of 3 republics (Serbia, Montenegro, and Kosovo).

In both cases Albanian will be one of the official state languages, and in that case names of the Kosovo cities with Albanian majority should be written in Albanian, and names of the Kosovo cities with Serbian majority in Serbian. However, at the present moment, Albanian is only "regional language", and not "state language", and English usually use names from one of the state languages. But, since every naming solution is only temporar in this case (until the final solution for Kosovo), I will wait that solution to say my opinion how cities should be named. The worst thing of course is to have twin articles about these cities, one in Serbian and another in Albanian, like Rahovec-Orahovac, Kačanik-Kaçanik, Deqani-Dečani, etc. PANONIAN (talk) 20:55, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

But PANONIAN is it against the rules to just drop a line, without signing it as well? I think such lines should be discarded. Let me know which rule precedes which, as I am not familiar. Regarding the possible solutions to Kosovo status I can tell you that there is only ONE solution, that is full independence for Kosovo, with securing rights for the minorities. Kosova used to be in a quazi federation, which did not work well. What makes you think Kosova that comprises a population of more than 90% non-slavic want to be in a confederation with Serbia and Montenegro, whereas other ex-YU republics which are mainly slavic ones seceded already? Regarding naming of cities, it is not the worst thing to have a double naming system. At least until Kosovo administration decides about that in the future. Resolution 1244 does NOT mention Serbia and Montenegro ANYWHERE, as that country did not exist back then :). Official languages in Kosovo have always been Albanian, and Serbian, and even Turkish. We had a triple naming system of cities, which is the case even now in the streets of Kosovo. So state language cannot be only serbian. No way.Ilir pz 22:19, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Ilir, there are so many Albanians in Italy and in some parts of Switzerland that you are going to ask for the independence of these areas also very soon. There is nothing except for the high number of Albanians in Kosovo (I repeat again, after the WWII there were as many Serbs as Albanians in Kosovo, but that situation changed drastically, because of the reasons that have been mentioned before), that gives you right to claim this region. I know you know that.

About the resolution 1244. You were right Ilir, it doesn't mention Serbia and Montenegro anywhere, but it does mention Yugoslavia, which is the same thing.

Gianni ita 15:02, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

As of population being the same number of albanians and serbs, please check page 46 of this book . It is a non-Albanian writer, and the sources he mentions are diverse. Please give me some more credible sources than serbian census of that year, which of course was made by whom??? OSCE-like organisation? of course not. Thank you, Ilir pz 16:02, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Here Ilir, http://www.tenc.net/articles/thompson/rootsof.htm Gianni ita 21:46, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

And, it's me again. No need to discuss any more about the resolution 1244. On the NATO's website there is a whole resolution with all the small changes made by NATO. It clearly says that KOSOVO IS PART OF THE FEDERAL REPUBLIC OF YUGOSLAVIA (SERBIA AND MONTENEGRO), CURRENTLY ADMINISTERED BY THE UN INTERNATIONAL FORCES.

http://www.nato.int/kosovo/docu/u990610a.htm

Gianni ita 15:21, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Gianni, albanians did not ask for independence out of pure wish, they were forced to do so. I do not think Switzerland or Italy are going to fill their rivers with trucks loaded with killed Albanian elder and women and children, nor open mass graves close to Alps´ slopes with hundreds of bodies of innocents. So don´t compare it unnecesarily with your example. As of reasons why population changed, that I have tried to explain to you several times. Besides low natality rate of Serbs, economical reasons drove them to move away to a more developed region such as Belgrade etc. Kosovo Serbs will have to get used that the majority is going to rule from 1999 and on. It will be tough for them, as they were overpriviledged during years of Serbian installed regimes in Kosovo, but with time they will get used to it. if not, none can stop them from relocating where they feel more confident. As of 1244, that is of temporar nature. Many have stressed out, even the UN admin in Kosovo, that there will be a new Sec.Council resolution soon. I agree to keep it there, as it will soon be a part of recent history of Kosovo. Ilir pz 15:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Both Serbs and Albanians from Kosovo had their trucks loaded with their opponents, as you describe it. Both sides are guilty. Serbs killed more than Albanians did, but Albanians drove away a massive amount of Serbs (but as i said earlier, croats and bosnian muslims killed 10 times more serbs in the wwii, than serbs killed croats and bosnian muslims this last war, but that doesn't make any of the sides more or less guilty, they should both be ashamed and should pay a price for these crimes). so why would kosovo be independent, i'm asking you again?

And one more thing, Albanians were always privileged under Tito's regime. I have a friend who is Gorani from Dragas (southern Kosovo) and whose family escaped from Kosovo a long time ago, because of the repression by the albanian kosovars, and there are many other families like his, it's not the living standard that made them move to Belgrade.

Gianni ita 18:59, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Not sure of any evidence trucks were loaded with Serbian civilian bodies and put on the riverbed of any rivers in Kosova, or Albania. Nevertheless, I do not approve of any killing or any oppression. Answering to you why Kosovo should be independent, I could only give you a link for a brief explanation. It is a person I share my view with, and explains it quite clear . Reasons people move are diverse as I said. I am not sure of any special programme by Academy of Science and arts of Kosova to drive Goranis or Serbs out, like the document I pinpointed to you above, and which of course you did not read. Try to read a bit and then ask questions, not just pose questions like "why should Kosovo be independent". Not sure how difficult it should be to understand why. And to those that give me the "The second Albanian state should not be formed" I give you a simple answer: Austria, Germany, and Switzerland can, France, Switzerland, and Belgium can. Kosovo can and will become independent, and of course rights of minirities will be respected. This shall not mean the killers among those minorities can return. NEVER. Their place is in jails, and then die there alone just like Milosevic. Ilir pz 19:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh my god, could not help notice the "Albanians were always privileged under Tito's regime", Gianni. It really makes me feel bad that I am wasting my time replying to you, you seem to not know anything about the recent past of Yugoslavia, and Kosovo's situation in it. First of all, Kosovo, with 90% of its population being non-Slavic (like the rest of ex-YU were) was deprived of the status of a Republic. Population-wise it had much more than Monenegro, but still. Intellectuals were persecuted and killed by the secret service of ex-Yug. Patriotic families were harrassed and made to flee Kosovo. Kosovo remained the most undeveloped part of ex-Yug (read: the least investments from the shared Federal fund), and Serbia sucked from it lots of minerals and coal from its rich underground. Want more? I will not give YOU more, until you read something and tell me what you read, and where you got the questions from. Hope you learned something for today (at least)Ilir pz 19:25, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

RESPONSE TO ILIR: OK, I read the web site that you recommended me. The only thing is that only albanian kosovars have a word there. I can give you some ultra nationalist Serbian sites and you'll see the completely different picture, but neither of these are true, the sooner you realize that, the better it will be for your own education. The books that you read in school, they were written by some Albanian Kosovar who was a part of the infamous UCK (KLA). You, the people of Kosovo (especially of albanian origin), ought to learn more from Western European books.

You have to admit, like I admited, that both Serbian army and albanian kosovar army bear the same responsibility. Or at least, that both commited disastrous crimes. A lot of people who have were responsible will never be put on a trial, and among them were your leader, who should have died like Milosevic, Ibrahim Rugova, and Hasim Taci, who is one of the negotiators for the albanian kosovars (UNBELIEVABLE!!)(He is wanted by both serbian and macedonian police but he will never be convicted, unfortunately)

Who mentioned kosovo's academy of science and arts? As far as I know, these people don't declare wars. And they certainly don't make plans about how to finance and support separatist organizations. They have a lot of better things to do.

Let's go back to Tito now. Read a little bit more about him on any page you want, and you'll see his policies about Kosovo. Yes, Albanians were privileged under his regime. More...Kosovo was never a republic, just an autonomous province of Serbia (you impress me with how much you know).

And after every time you say that there are 90% of Albanians in Kosovo now, I will repeat after you, after the WWII there was the same number of serbs and albanians. But, because of the repression by the albanian kosovars, a lot of Serbs, Roma, and Gorani's left this region. And you can check that here . http://www.tenc.net/articles/thompson/rootsof.htm

And about Kosovo being poor... Why do you complain that serbia took all the minerals from Kosovo when Kosovo was autonomous province. Do I complain about what Albania is doing with it's mines.

Gianni ita 21:43, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

"Why do you complain that serbia took all the minerals from Kosovo when Kosovo was autonomous province. Do I complain about what Albania is doing with it's mines." You sir are a moron. Read that a few times and you will see that your logic is that of a simian. And please stop posting some hacks writings as facts. Firstly, KLA has not committed even a fraction of atrocities the serbs did in Kosova.Everyone who has a brain knows that.

IN RESPONSE TO THIS UNSIGNED OFFENSE. First, i don't want to feed trolls. Autonomous doesn't mean independent. Serbia took a lot and gave a lot more to it's autonomous province of Kosovo and Metohija. Wheat from another autonomous province, Vojvodina feeds all the Serbia and Montenegro, Kosovo gives minerals.... Gianni ita 19:17, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Preface (negotiations part)

I think we should agree that the status talks held in Vienna now are between the delegations of two democratically elected governments, that of Serbia and Kosova. user: Asterion is reverting that part continuously. Serbian govt is not talking to Albanian "people" randomly selected in the streets of Kosovo, but those are ministers, heads or members of political parties of Kosovo. Opinion (for now, Asterions not) needed. And please, if you are not from Kosovo, and base your arguments on your life experience IN KOSOVO, then try to prove why you think what you´re saying is so, as it is not fair anyone from Andalusia or Chile to come and drop opinions here. This is a sensitive issue, and I ask for more understanding from non-Kosovo citizens. Thank you, Ilir pz 15:50, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Progress

It is nice that progress was made regarding preface part and infobox. Now please, Ilir pz and Gianni ita, you should not discuss here whether Kosovo should be independent or not, but concrete disputes about article. So, please tell me what are the other disputed parts of the article, since I see that nobody reverting it now. As for the names of the articles about Kosovo cities, I just said my opinion how they should be named at the present moment, but I really do not care whether names of these articles would be in Serbian or Albanian. So, Ilir pz, it is not me with whom you should to argue about that. PANONIAN (talk) 03:15, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

A lot more neutral article

Panonian, I didn't even notice the new version of the article because of constant arguing with Ilir.

This article is a lot better than the previous one. Whoever wrote it did a good job to represent both Serbian and Albanian Kosovar side.

The only two things that I disapprove of are: 1. In 1912 during the Balkan Wars, Kosovo and Albania were conquered by Serbia while eastern part of Kosovo was captured by Montenegro. Serbia aimed at ethnically cleansing Kosovo of its Albanian population.... Following this document, expulsion of Albanians from Kosovo took place in the next decades, ending up with the Milosevic era.

The expulsion did happen in the 1912, but it didn't continue until 1999. Those were two waves, not a continous one. In the meawhile there were also waves of expulsion of Serbian population, as you mentioned.

This must be the only expulsion in recorded history which increased the size of expelled population fifthfold. Nikola 23:09, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Blame it on the determination of Albanians not to allow Serbian chauvinistic plans to work...and their healthy natality rate, of course :)))))))So many actions, check, and they all failed. Gotta love my nation, we never lost our hopes. My respect to my loving nation. Regards,Ilir pz 00:14, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

If you carefully check the course of events, and actions by every Serbian leader in Kosovo you can clearly see that those actions are completely in accordance with that document. And the last expulsion attempt by Milosevic was the worst case scenario, or the best according to that plan. Luckily this time Albanians had the support of the democratic world countries that did not allow that to happen. Ben uk 18:21, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Now, you must be joking. Which Serbian leader in Kosovo. Since the end of the WWII 90% of the political leaders in Kosovo were kosovar albanians (presidends, prime ministers...). In the 20th century Serbs tried to erradicate Albanians just before the WWI and while Milosevic was in power, between these to waves, especially after the WWII albanian kosovars started something like a cold war against Serbs in Kosovo. Gianni ita 21:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Milosevic was not the leader of Kosovo, but he did what he did there. I did not say Serbian leaders, as in leader of Kosovo. Hope you got the message. I see that you are trying to recruit people to explain history to "siptarima" all over wiki. good luck with that. You're quite confident with your facts. Having lots of fun. Unfortunately serbian propaganda did a great job, so many brainwashed people. That is another factor why Kosovo should become independent, lol. Ben uk 00:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm not so sure about brainwashing. I'd rather say that the technique of Joseph Goebbels was used in Albania and within kosovar albanian media. Gianni ita 19:48, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

2.After the Dayton Agreement and numerous atrocities committed by Serb security forces inside Kosovo, the disillusioned Albanians organized into the Kosovo Liberation Army and started a guerrilla war for liberation. It's not a war for liberation when you organize a terroristic separatistic group and kill Serbs, Gorani's, Jews, Roma's, or expell them. http://www.tenc.net/interviews/keys.htm

The main targets of KLA were the occupatory Serbian military. As in every war conflict, where outlaws are incorporated, I don't exclude the posibility any individual might have attacked civillians. I condemn those strongly. Let us not forget that in the Serbian troops there were Arkan, Frenki, and all sorts of paramilitary groups, furthermore they were financed by the secret service of the Serbian state. Ben uk 18:21, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Frenki was never in Kosovo. KLA is financed by the albanian officials (mafia) who get their money from drug and people trafficking. (I tried to be neutral so far but now I just can't stand any more arguing with someone who doesn't even try to be neutral. I tried to explain that both sides are guilty and I wanted to reach a compromise with you and\or Ilir, but that just was not possible) http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2000/01/heroin.html

Gianni ita 21:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Frenki was not in Kosovo? oh well. I am sure you have facts. One of my good friends of my childhood had been captured by one of his gangs and I never got to see him again. I do have a fact, his family recognized them. You are not convincing at all gianni. And yes, you are VERY neutral, killing me with that. By saying you hate all the leaders of ex-YUG republics and Kosovo leaders doesn't make you any neutral. KLA, financed by mafia...well for serbs all Albanians were terrorists anyways. I am just wasting my precious time explaining to youBen uk 00:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I repeat again Frenki was not in Kosovo. His units were in Bujanovac, Presevo and Medvedja, which don't belong to kosovo. I'm not interested in family stories as they are very efficient tool to cause simpathy, and the objectivity of these events is very hard to confirm. If you did loose a friend like that, I am sorry, many Serbs did too. Gianni ita 19:48, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

One thing that is important to mention is that according to OSCE numbers and Kosovar Albanian sources on population size and distribution, an estimated 45.7 percent of the Albanian population and 59.5 percent of the Serb population had fled Kosovo during the bombings (i.e. from 23 March to 9 June 1999).2 , and after this day who knows how many more others fled http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/chuss/nato.htm

It is also important to mention the number of Albanians that returned to Kosovo, and the ones that decided to move from Albania after the 1999. http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/publ/opendoc.htm?tbl=RSDLEGAL&id=3ae6b33b14&page=publ while Serbs can't return.

Otherwise, history part and everything else is just perfect, it's not pro serbian nor pro albanian.

Gianni ita 08:20, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I just noticed another small irregularity. The Kosovo government has been widely praised for paying for the rebuilding of Serb houses in the aftermath of the 2004 riots. This has been marked as the first case of reparations in the history of the Balkans.

It's not the first case of reparations. Serbs financed all the expenses of rebuilding Vukovar, Croats financed all the expenses of rebuilding some parts of Mostar that they ruined... And I'm not sure that Kosovo Govt. is actually helping Serbian minority, if KFOR wasn't there, not even one Serbian monastery will still be there, and you will hardly find any serb there. It is still KFOR that maintains peace, not the Kosovar Albanian Govt.

Gianni ita 08:28, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

How related is it talking about Croats or Serbs rebuilding Vukovar to what we are dicussing here? lol Ben uk 18:21, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Ben uk, or Ilir, (I don't know who am I talking to because you might be one of Ilir's sockpuppets)if you read carefully what it says in the article you will understand what I am refering to. To help you, it said that albanian kosovar govt. helped rebuild some of the ruined serbian houses, and that this was the first time in the Balkan peninsula that this kind of a thing happened. That's why I mentioned cases where Serbian, and Croatian governments did those things before. Gianni ita 21:13, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Dear Asterion or Gianni_ita (I don't know who I am talking to because you both seem to be sockpuppets of each other) Sorry but I did not see anyone saying Kosovo govt was the only one to have ever done that. This discussion page is way to long, did not catch that part. Anyways it is irrelevant to anything we are talking about hereBen uk 00:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

I don't have a lot in common with Asterion, although I see that we have the same aim in this discussion page, and that is to leave Kosovo to Serbia. I don't know why these insults? You do know that it was said few days ago in the beginning of this discussion page that you were suspected of being Ilir's sockpuppet? Gianni ita 19:53, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Moving discussion page to archive

This discussion page is way to long, how about moving it to an archive? suggestions appreciated! Ben uk 00:41, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Move it to an archive. Litany

History

I hope you can forgive me. I made some changes on this article but I'll explain the adding so there will be no more missunderstanding. 1: "Following this document, expulsion of Albanians from Kosovo took place in the next decades, ending up with the Milosevic era." this is true, but no expulsion was made between 1941 and 1990?/1996?... changed to "During the next decades, expulsion of Albanians from Kosovo took place." 2: added "It is also estimated that 400.000 Serbs were clensed from the Vilayet of Kosovo between 1876 and 1912, especially during the Greek-Ottoman war in 1897. (see Demographic history of Kosovo)". Why? It's the truth. 3: ..eastern part of Kosovo "(Metohija to Orthodox)"... this is essentially right. In all my books (and no crap about it's chetnik books or whatever) it says "Metohija was given to Montenegro instead of Shkodra".

so please.. we should all cooperate. I listen to you and I expect the same from you. We should discuss and not argue. Have a nice weekend everyone/Litany

These are the things that I added, deleted or changed

1. I added Serbian theory that they are the descendants of Illyrians, although I think that it is very unlikely. 2. I added that Albanians voted on the 12. of january 1992. for the independence of one part of Macedonia 3. I added that during the protests, not Kosovar, but kosovar albanian students were asking for the independence of kosovo. 4. I deleted the part which mentioned continous expelling of Albanians since 1912. that was a big lie. 5. I changed the description of the KLA the way it should be described, and I added that Serbian forces killed way more innocent people than the KLA.

Tell me what you think of the changes!

Gianni ita 20:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

One out of 5 changes you made is ok, the rest are very biased and by no means reflect the reality. First of all, they are not backed by any source AT ALL. 1. why do you add something you think it is unlikely? is that smart? 2. Have you found a source to back that claim?? 3. I like that change. 4. There is that source which you should read first, and then say it was a lie. 5. Comparing KLA to the paramilitary death squads is ridiculous. It is true that very few from KLA did horrible things, but they were far less in number and much less directed by any higher authority, whereas Serbian paramilitary troops were trained by JSO, and all sorts of military and special police units.

Above all, DISCUSS SOMETHING FIRST, and then if majority of us agrees (just like majority will decide about the status of Kosovo, as Contact Group last meeting confirmed , I will quote for you "Ministers look to Belgrade to bear in mind that the settlement needs, inter alia, to be acceptable to the people of Kosovo. "). Only then can you wish us to have a nice weekend. Ben uk 21:34, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Response to Ben uk. 1. If you represent the some nationalist ideas of Albanian people, why wouldn't there be netionalist ideas of Serbian people too, although I don't agree with them. 2. Source to back that claim can be found here This is a site which highly criticizes Serbia becacuse of its action in Kosovo, but you can find under 12. January 1992. what had happened http://www.radicalparty.org/milosevic/processo_2.htm http://mondediplo.com/1999/01/13maced i repeat again this happened on 12.1. 1992. why don't you think this happened. 3. We agree 4. for the tenth time http://www.tenc.net/articles/thompson/rootsof.htm read this. Serbs were the victims between the two waves of albanian expelling. 5. Just type KLA DRUGS on google and see what you get. KLA is just like al qaeda, just like scorpions in Serbia.

Gianni ita 21:55, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Ilir / Ben uk / Mark ma or whatever alias you go by now. You do not own the article on Kosovo and you know that. Stop calling people vandals simply because we are trying to put the article in order and remove some of its heavy ALbanian extremist bias. Also, please learn some geography, as Andalusia is not in Chile, my friend. I really love your logic too: we are neither Serbian not Albanian, hence not "allowed" to discuss the subject but Serbs are not "allowed" to edit the article either. Got to love your democracy at work! Whether you like it or not, the Kosovo article is not meant to be a UCK mouthpiece. Regards, Asterion 00:13, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Asterion, Litany, Gianni, or whoever you are. You are not trying to put the article in "order", you are just determined to defend serbian nationalism, and that means erase and change anything that Albanians contribute in the site. OF COURSE I can help you in that. I told you a long time ago, you cannot stop me. I am doing this for my country, and I will never get tired contributing. I never said Andalusia was in Chile, I just wanted you to understand (but blinded by serbian nationalism you seem to not be able to do that easily) that one person from andalusia OR Chile (read: who is not directly involved in the issue) should not just delete stuff. This article belongs to those whose country it is in question. I don't recall to have changed anything on the content of BRASIL or the Australia (check the comparison I make again). Oh another thing, I am NOT your friend. It is not democracy to not respect the main element of democracy: the right of Kosovo Albanians on self-determination. That applies to this article as well, we are the ones whom this article concerns the most. Oh and that sockpuppet campaign you have started, you are as ridiculous as one frustrated serbian nationalist can be. Answers to the stuff above: 1. Feel free to use serbian nationalism, just to refresh your memory, it caused 4 wars, and shrunk Serbia to where it is right now, and with a tendency to shrink further (as Radicals are getting more powerful). Use your nationalism elsewhere, Kosovo is lost for you once and for all. Realists in Serbia have long admitted that, I see it all over in comments of (rather normal) b92 news agency. 2. Just check what kind of source you are giving me. I did not say ANY source. Citing radicals or milosevic's sources is like not citing sources at all, but citing lies. All the world has found out that those are pure lies. 4. is as well not a neutral source, not at all. 5. hehe, just check what hits google returns for "kla drugs", like sprska-mreza, kosovo.com, heheeh very credible sources, impressive. Ilir pz 11:38, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Ilir, don't make me laugh. You can't get serbian sites when you type KLA DRUGS on google. Click on the second site that you get, it's from washington times. In case you somehow didn't find it here it is www.geocities.com/Heartland/7006/KLA-drugs.html or you have from the daily oklahoman May 28. 1999. this excerpt In 1998 the State Department listed the KLA as an international terrorist organization that supported itself with drug profits and through loans from known terrorists like bin Laden. And the site that i gave you to prove that albanians voted for the independence of one part of macedonia is http://www.radicalparty.org/milosevic/processo_2.htm this site is criticizing both milosevic and all his colleagues, while the other site is a bit more neutral http://mondediplo.com/1999/01/13maced . WHY WOULD YOU NOT ACCEPT THESE FACTS? IT'S NOT OFFENDING ANYONE, IT'S JUST STATED THAT ALBANIANS VOTED FOR THE INDEPENDENCY OF ONE PART OF MACEDONIA? about question one, someone saying that albanians are illyrians and someone saying that serbs are illyrians are albanian and serbian nationalist, because we already have albanian extreme nationalist side presented why wouldn't we have serbian also just to get the balance. Gianni ita 15:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Gianni ever wondered what a geocities website is? it is a free yahoo web page. Freely send an email to heartland@yahoo.com and you will get a mail back. So now if I make a website with www.geocities.com/gianni/kosovo.html and write there that "Kosovo belongs to Serbia" it is a credible source??? OH MY GOD!!!!Ben uk 10:24, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Ben UK, i admit, the geocities is not credible, but you have the same article, and it says the same date (and both are from Washington Times) on this site http://www.realitymacedonia.org.mk/web/news_page.asp?nid=1048 Why don't you want to coment other sites, why aren't you accepting the fact that albanians from macedonia voted for the independence of one part of macedonia? Gianni ita 19:26, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo and Metohija

Kosovo is just a part of the autonomous province of Kosovo and Metohija. The article represents Kosovo as Kosovo and Metohija, and that's wrong. Thats like saying Serbia is the same as Serbia and Montenegro, there's no difference... You can't do that. Just because it may be a little hard for Westerners to pronounce Metohija and most people haven't heard of that word in their lives, doesn't mean that the article title shouldn't contain the word. If Kosovo becomes independent and declares that it is called only Kosovo, and not Kosovo and Metohija, then make the article title "Kosovo". --Boris Malagurski ₪ 07:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Very funny, your comparisons and explanations can just make a Kosovar Albanian laugh to death. It is not the question IF the Kosovo becomes independent, but WHEN. Indications show that is to happen (and celebrate for) this year. Until then, please entertain us with your old and Milosevician comments, until Kosovo is DE JURE independent. Ilir pz 11:10, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Boris Malagurski, don't feed trolls. Best response to inflammatory remarks is to ignore them. Regards, Asterion 11:48, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I will start ignoring your inflammatory remarks soon, Asterion/Gianni/Litany/whatever. Thanks for the tip. Ilir pz 11:58, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Kosovo and Metohija is still a part of Serbia. This is not future Misplaced Pages, you can't write that Croatia is a part of the EU, even if thats gonna happen soon. If and when Kosovo and Metohija becomes independent, THEN change it to just Kosovo.

And by the way, if Kosovo becomes independent, it won't be for too long. Serbs have lived under the Turks for 500 years and liberated their land, one day Kosovo will be liberated from the Albanians as well, and it will again be a part of Serbia, because it is Serbian holy land. --Boris Malagurski ₪ 01:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

This is pure Seselj nationalism. Oh well, we survived for so many centuries having Serbs as neighbours, and I think we are more numerous than ever. And the future estimations say we will become even more. I am curious where Serbia would be in a couple of centuries. my guess, within Belgrade suburbs??? Feed yourself with illusions, that is the best serbian nationalists do. Kosovo is a heart of Serbia, right? How do serbs live without a heart right now? amazing nation! hehhe...Ben uk 10:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

He he, nice comments. My question is, how come you hate Serbia so much, even though your parents are FROM Serbia? I'm originally from Vojvodina, but since it's a part of Serbia (just like Kosovo and Metohija) I say I'm from Serbia (so should your parents). Your comment just confirms the plan of ethic Albanians to form a Greater Albania in Kosovo and Metohija, Western Macedonia, parts of Greece and Montenegro. Kosovo still is a heart of Serbia, and it will always be the heart of Serbia, because the Albanians may gain their independence, but one day Kosovo will be liberated, and there are a lot of people who think like me, so, Albanians, don't feel too safe... --Boris Malagurski ₪ 19:07, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Not worth commenting. benny 21:33, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually none of my parents, or grandparents were ever born outside Kosovo, and never felt they had anything to do with the Serbian regime, let alone feel as if they live in a part of it :)))))))))))). Even when we had all sorts of regimes installed by force in our beloved country, Kosovo, we had our own government, paid taxes to our own institutions, had our own schools, our own medical system, flag, newspapers, everything. As of feeling safe, I never felt that anyone in Kosova fears the return of serbian terrorist forces back to Kosovo, you may only dream of that. Dream on!!! Maybe there you can see that there. And here is my last comment to you, EVER, as I don't have time to waste with Seselj-like creatures. Whenever you write I will only see "blla blla blla" instead, completely ignore you, just like we ignored the animalistic regime of Milosevic and all before him installed in my INDEPENDENT AND LOVING COUNTRY KOSOVA. :)))))))))))Ilir pz 19:30, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I was talking to Ben. Don't feel too embarrassed.--Boris Malagurski ₪ 19:52, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

blla blla blla I was answering for myself, it is as offensive for all Albanians in Kosovo. Ilir pz 19:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

As long as you're not embarrassed... --Boris Malagurski ₪ 23:47, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry thing

Asterion/Gianni/Litany, whoever from you are reverting changes constantly, if you think anyone who doesn't share your opinion on Kosovo is a sockpuppet, then you've 2 million such in Kosova itself, and many more outside Kosovo. You are vandalising yourself, big time, by reverting changes, and instead try to accuse someone of sockpuppeting. You even went that far as you insulted by calling "cockpuppeting" . This only shows how frustrated you are with the fact that Kosovo will never be under Serbian rule again, and it will be an independent country sooner than you think. Good luck fighting 2 million "sockpuppets", lol. What was that "go back to LSE about", by the way?Ilir pz 13:25, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

You're under investigation by the Arbitration Committee. I will not comment on your behaviour till the CheckUser process is finalised. I kindly ask you to refrain from editing the evidence page and remove any tags from your user page(s) Asterion 15:36, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Ilir pz\mark ma\ben uk, I called you sockpuppets because when I opened a profile of one of you, it clearly said that you were a suspected sockpuppet of someone. No need to discuss this any more, we called you sockpuppets, you called us, THE END. Gianni ita 16:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

I was suspected as being a sockpuppet by asterion, gianni, not by someone. And it is clearly a way to defend the nationalism he feels for serbs. It is not gonna work. You can keep calling whatever you wish. Ben uk 10:27, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Article

Please only discuss the content of the article here. As long as you only fight there is no meaning to edit something here before adding something to the article. Litany

"ISBN 86-17-09287-4: Kosta Nikolić, Nikola Žutić, Momčilo Pavlović, Zorica Špadijer: Историја за трећи разред гимназије природно-математичког смера и четврти разред гимназије општег и друштвено-језичког смера, Belgrade, 2002, pg. 63" Litany, is this the neutral article from Kosovo Demographic history you are talking about? ridiculous. Your change is unreasonable. Whereas the Muhaxheri issue is clearly written by Leon Trotsky, search for the literature from him on that. .Thanks,Ilir pz 19:19, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Ilir pz, please.. The book is from Trotskys time in Balkan 1912-1913, while the article talks about what happend two weeks after the Berlin Congress in 1878. Maybe you should read first and then talk! :)

I think the whole part should be shortened to just "mass expulsion of ethnic groups contiuned from both sides druing the time..." this is more NPOV then not letting anything be said about the events. right? Litany

Litany, I did not specify a time when Muhaxheri expulsion happened. That was a continuous process. Should you want to see more in detail, check . Trotsky's describes only a short period of it. regards Ilir pz 23:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

But Ilir, you supported it. Read the article, it's not clear enough. Of course it was an ongoing process just like the expulsion of serbs during that time. The sources you provide is from Kosovo, made from Albanian sourcess. Are these reliable??

I suggest the whole frase should be rewritten and include both albanians, serbs and other ethnic groups too. How does that sound? Litany

Hi Litany, the whole Demography of Kosovo is according to some biased Serbian papers, what do you expect?That article needs heavy rewriting. I will dedicate some time to that once I am back from a trip. The source I gave is only assembled by an Albanian. Sources used in it are diverse. You read a bit further, not just look the header, of Kosova's Information Center. Ilir pz 22:48, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

As no one was interested in discussing or didn't find sources to oppose my facts, i again changed following things, 1. serbian theory that they are illyrians, with which i disagree, but which is needed to balance albanian and serbian nationalism in history. 2. I deleted the sentence where it said that albanians were expelled from serbia since the WWI. the article itself opposes this view, as it is said later in the text that fascist albania during the wwii killed and expelled a lot of serbs. Also during the reign of Tito, no single albanian was expelled, more serbs left Kosovo then Albanians. 3. I added again that after Kosovar Albanians voted for the independency of Kosovo, in 12.1.1992. they also voted for the independency of one part of macedonia. I gave two sites as a proof in previous discussions twice, but there were no reactions.

That's it. I hope everyone is happy now, as the article is clearly unbiased after a long, long, time.

Gianni ita 19:46, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

1. Of course you cannot change the article because someone doesn't suggest changes within 24 hrs. People work, you know? they don't just hang out in wiki like you. You put the hypothesis that serbs are with illyrian origin to balance nationalisms?? Holly mother. Of course I will revert that back.

2. There is a source for that information, of course I will rever that back. 3. your sites of supporting that claim are not neutral, of course I will revert that back. Advice: Discuss further, and then change when there is agreement here, Mr. Balancer, hehehe. benny 21:36, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Benny you have o slow down a little. This is not a revert war anymore. :) I think 4 or 5 days is enough of waiting for respons.

To Gianni.

1. Every serious historian must belive that the Illyrian are mixed with all (or most) ethnic groups on Balkan. Very, very, few is stating that the Illyrians are direct desendants to any ethnic group, simply because there is no proof. If the article needs nationalistic balance, we should delete the already existing nationalism!

2. I totally agree with you on this one. The sentance opposes it's own view. Keep

3. Add the sources again, after I read them I will make a comment if I think they are a reliable source. (An election about independance must be documented.) Litany

Factual accuracy

No, the article not only is not neutral, it is completely inaccurate from the beginning to the end. Some of the problems are:

• English translation of the official name of the province, Kosovo and Metohia, is not mentioned in the introduction.
• According to the introduction, Kosovo "is a territory in South Eastern Europe". We've been over this a thousand times. Kosovo is a part of SCG, period. SCG's constitution defines Kosovo as a province of Serbia, period. The end of any discussion about its status.
• Final status of Kosovo is not the subject of any dispute, but of political negotiations.
• Kosovo does not border Serbia; Kosovo is a part of Serbia. It can only border the rest of Serbia.
• I won't even try to read the history. It is overexpanded for the article anyway. A few things which did caught my eye however:
  • Resettlement policies of Ottoman Empire are described as Serbian ethnic cleansing.
  • The autonomy of Kosovo was never revoked, Albanian resistance was not peaceful, etc. etc.
  • UNHCR did not estimated, but registered, 250,000 refugees and not 100,000. The number of Serbian refugees is reduced thrice, again and again, despite having multiple independent references (see Demographic_history_of_Kosovo) which confirm it.
• Information about name of Kosovo and its Slavic origin, including the map has mysteriously disappeared.
• So has the list of former official names. No, Kosovo was not called Kosovo and Metohia, ever.
• So has any link to Demographic history of Kosovo, which is one of the best referenced articles on entire Misplaced Pages.
• Cities are named using Albanian/Serbian name in total disrespect with any Misplaced Pages policies.
• The international community uses 'Kosovo/Kosova' to describe the province only in someone's wet dreams.
• UNMIK is not responsible with supervision of the government of Kosovo; UNMIK is responsible with governing Kosovo. It delegated some of its powers to the government.
• In external links, a book by Hugo Roth, is proudly listed as pro-Serb, obviously because Hugo is a Serb historian. But Radio Television of Kosova? No sir, it can't possibly be pro-Albanian.

So, I am adding warning header about disputed factual accuracy to the article, though it will be reverted without doubt.

And all the while, our revered editor ChrisO is dutifully watching over the article and probably dying of laughter. The lowest of low. Nikola 23:05, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

No need to get frustrated and give us "periods" here, Nikola. "briefly"

• Kosovo and Metohia is a Serbian fabrication, thus in English it does not make sense to translate
• Kosovo, until its final status, independence de jure, is solved and made official, it is a territory in SEE. SCG constitution is as important as some rubish piece of paper in my trash can to 90% of Albanians and the Contact Group members.
• Kosovo DOES border Serbia. We collect taxes, and verify documentation, and guard the border with Serbia.
• As of Serbian ethnic cleansing extensive information here
• Autonomy of Kosovo was not revoked? we just gave it up right? ridiculous. All know the truth.
• Demographic history of Kosovo is a highly disputed article, read the references only, all Serbian. That article needs heavy reviewing and changing.
• double naming system is the best way to reflect the naming of cities in a place where not all are of one nationality. It is a long gone period when in Kosova we had only cyrillic names everywhere, shops, cities, documents, etc. Kosova is a democratic country now, we are more civilized than that way of thinking you are predicating.
• Americans and brits like "Kosova" naming, so for the sake of our dear friends who stopped the bloodshed, we should as well use it here.
  • • UNMIK has (I am sure you've never seen this site) these duties, to:
    • perform basic civilian administrative functions;
    • promote the establishment of substantial autonomy and self-government in Kosovo;
    • facilitate a political process to determine Kosovo's future status;
    • coordinate humanitarian and disaster relief of all international agencies;
    • support the reconstruction of key infrastructure;
    • maintain civil law and order;
    • promote human rights; and
    • assure the safe and unimpeded return of all refugees and displaced persons to their homes in Kosovo.
    • Of course the "total disputed" label of yours is your point of view, thus inaccurate. Sleep tight in your wet dreams(as you said) :))))))Ilir pz 00:05, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

No discussions before changes???

So nobody wants to discuss before changing the content, right? perfect! :)))))) Ilir pz 09:58, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

Read above Ilir. Litany

Something completely different is discussed, and some only revert other changes, that is why I am asking. best,Ilir pz 22:45, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

You are completely right, some only revert changes. You wanna know who? You.

I was trying to make the article more NPOV, but obviously that's not good for you (why, I can't even imagine...). So, Ilir, or whatever your real name is, I know you're from Kosova, and you really really want Kosovo and Metohija to become an independent state, and I frankly don't care anymore (since I live in Canada, doesn't affect me), but we can't go on fighting, and I mean, in every aspect. We discussed the content, it's not like the changes came out of the blue.

The still official name (Kosovo and Metohija) should go first, BUT since the majority of Kosovars are Albanians, I guess it does no harm to put the Albanian name first. Also, Priština is the official name of the city, but OK, lets leave it at Prishtine, or whatever you call it. The history part of the article was very biased, and you will see I left a bunch of stuff on serbian ethnic cleansing, which some Serbs might want to remove, but I guess it is pointless to argue about something that'll most likely never be resolved, and thats why it's still there. Although, I did mention that the Serb gov't claimed that the KLA was a terrorist organization (didn't Milosevic say that? It's not biased, it's history). I'm not saying that it is (although I think that), but I wrote that the Serb gov't thinks it is, and I see no harm in that claim (I also left the text where it says that the purpose of the KLA is to achieve independence).

So, no matter what argues we had before, I realized that it's not going to help fighting about it in this case, so we might as well cooperate, and we might, just might, reach an agreement (just like those guys in Vienna). Cheers, --Boris Malagurski ₪ 01:38, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Lock

My suggestion is to lock the page untill final status negotiations are over. --Boris Malagurski ₪ 02:52, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Still no response? What do I have to do to get attention from an administrator?? --Boris Malagurski ₪ 05:00, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, posting at the Administrators noticeboard would probably do the trick. ;-) Of course, the very existence of the noticeboard isnt very well communicated. Cheers, The Minister of War 21:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Here is the proof that elections took place. That's the response to 3rd question i think. http://en.wikipedia.org/Ilirida under history

or http://www.projects.v2.nl/~arns/Texts/Chrono/MK.html under jan. 1992.

The response to first question, about the origin of Illyrians, I say again, I don's support the idea that Serbs are the descendants of Illyrians, but some people in Serbia actually believe in this, some think they are Celtic descendants, and i agree with Litany that all the nations in the Balkans are actually a mix of all the tribes that went through these places. So, I propose just to add a sentence like that, if you don't want to add that Serbs came from Illyrians or Celts or any other tribe. But only albanian idea about their ancestry doesn't make the article complete. Gianni ita 18:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

And Ben, I did wait around 4 days for your response in discussion page. And you did visit the page twice since i started this serious discussion, but both you and Ilir were more occupied with the very important problem of who is calling who a sockpuppet.

Gianni ita 18:32, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

You wanna lock this place once you vandalize it? Not gonna work. As of writing the line about Serbs having Illyrian origin, that is the most ridiculous of all possible street legends. Of course we are not talking about legends on Kosovo in this article. And Gianni, you cannot just give a deadline to someone, but you have to wait once a conclusion is reached, even if it takes more time. As of articles supporting the voting in Macedonia by Albanians, again, citing another wiki site, where no support is given for that either, makes no sense again. After all, how related is that voting with Kosovo itself? You are just trying to support a picture that Albanians just like to expand, and cut parts of other countries right? I don't support an unsupported sentence, and one that deviates from the subject. Ilir pz 15:29, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Ilir pz

Please note that you do not own the article and you cannot simply revert everything. Note here that you violated the wikipedia policy by conducting a personal attack: rv to a previous version. Too much of organized vandalism by pro-serbian nationalists. Discussion needed. Please read Misplaced Pages:No personal attacks and don't attack users in the future.

Your edits will be reverted. This is a more NPOV version, so I'll put a tag. If anything needs to be discussed, please discuss it here, don't attempt to occupy articles. Best. --HolyRomanEmperor 16:01, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Your edits will be reverted. You are nobody to decide which is more NPOV version. As of discussion, you discuss here, not just revert according to your "NPOV". This what you are doing is called pro-Serbian nationalism. You should know better what that resulted in. Let the time tell what the status will be like. As Kosovo's status is not determined, it is not part of Albania, Macedonia, Serbia or any other neighbouring country. Thus your edits are extreme pro-serb and thus unacceptable. Regards,Ilir pz 18:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Ilir pz, just a friendly reminder. You do not own the article. Feel free to engage in constructive discussion. As recognised in every single UN resolution, Kosovo IS part of Serbia. Everything else is daydreaming and POV. Regards, Asterion 19:33, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Asterion, could you provide only ONE UN document that recognizes Kosovo explicitly as a part of Serbia? And just so we're clear on this, Serbia is not Yugoslavia (nor is Serbia and Montenegro for that matter)! So, go ahead and give us a UN Resolution to prove your claims. And as we all know already, UN SC Resolution 1244 is the main governing document in Kosovo. For some reason, the word 'Serbia' is not mentioned there; except once at the end, when it speaks about the BORDER between Kosovo and Serbia!

Hello everyone!!!

Greetings fellow Wikipedians!

I noticed that there was a little argument over the article. Well, I changed a few bits, I hope everyone likes what I did, I think I made it more neutral. That's all from me, you guys can finish the job, you all seem to have a lot of knowledge concerning the issue! Good luck, and I hope you resolve the dispute as soon as possible!!!

--M.B. 03:23, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages controversial topics