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I have left messages for ], ] and ] to ask if they will participate in this mediation. ]] 05:54, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC) I have left messages for ], ] and ] to ask if they will participate in this mediation. ]] 05:54, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

:::I'm not going to bother defending myself against Simonides' many charges, except to say that I disagree with him on just about every point he has made concerning me above. My own concerns with Simonides are threefold:
:::1) His near constant use of ad hominem and insulting rhetoric directed (on Talk: pages) towards anyone with whom he disagrees. Included in this are his attempts to lump all those who disagree with him into some sort of agenda based cabal, with implications of conspiracy (witness his statements above, and in other in Talk: pages).
:::2) His consistent pattern of arbitrarily deleting any material with which he disagrees, stating that any who disagree with him are invariably incorrect, or that they must first edit their material to include all sorts of information which he apparently knows, but refuses to include himself.
:::3) His notion that he "owns" certain pages, and can thus dictate the rules for how they will be edited; he has even gone so far as to delete material he has agreed with (on the ] and ] pages), on the principle that all changes must be approved by him first regardless of their validity.
:::Regarding mediation itself, I welcome it. I requested arbitration with Simonides two or three days ago, but was told that arbitration would have to be preceded by mediation. I then asked Simonides if he would agree to mediation, which he said he would. I had (admittedly) not as yet figured out exactly how to get that mediation. However, I must point out, as I have said before to Simonides, I am myself, not RK, Humus Sapiens, or anyone else. I have never even visited some of the pages Simonides has mentioned above. And as much as Simonides would like to place me in some "pack", I can only speak for myself. ] 06:41, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)


==See also== ==See also==

Revision as of 06:41, 16 July 2004

part of Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution

Please read the information in the "What is mediation?" section below before formally asking for mediation. Also, please be sure that you have followed the preliminary steps laid out in Misplaced Pages:Dispute resolution. You may also wish to consult the following introductory link:Misplaced Pages:Mediation.

What is mediation?

"The whole point of mediation is to get people to talk, listen, try to think things through logically and reasonable (emphasis on reason) so that some compromises can be reached to everyone's satisfaction." -- Alex756.

Mediation is the activity in which a neutral third party (the mediator) assists two or more parties (the editors in dispute) in order to help resolve their dispute, with concrete effects, on a matter of common interest.

During mediation, each party can have a break, sit down with the mediator and the other party, have the opportunity to explain his/her situation, listen to each other, work together to achieve an agreement and make a consensual decision over the issue at stake.

Who are the mediators?

Mediators are people who are volunteering to get involved in mediating user disputes.
They are regular trusted editors, approved by Jimbo and the other members of the commitee, here to help you.
But they are

  • without any actual power over the final decision, and
  • without any power to vote for or recommend a ban or any other punitive action.

After a mediation has failed, the committee can recommend the case for arbitration though.

See also

What happens during mediation?

You may ask for mediation here (see below), or on the mailing list. You may suggest a name, or the commitee will appoint a mediator to help you. In every case, both parties must agree with the mediator chosen.

This may be done through various means such as email, irc, phone... What is said during mediation sessions is private, and won't be disclosed without agreement of all parties. In particular it won't be used in any further conflict resolution proceedings (arbitration). You will be able to speak freely and fully.

Mediation is voluntary. Any settlement reached must be agreeable to both parties.

From time to time, progress bulletins (if warranted) might be issued.

What happens if mediation fails?

Disputants may (one or both parties) ask for arbitration, which is the next step in dispute resolution.

It is important to insist that disputants should themselves make a request for arbitration. It is not the role of a mediator to do this on your behalf.

The arbitration committee will vote on whether to accept your request, so be prepared to defend your case. They may decide that mediation has not been pushed far enough and refer the case back to mediation. In this case, you may either drop the issue and learn to live with the conflict (agree to disagree), or return to mediation and request help from another mediator (it may be granted or not), or ask help from an advocate.

Note that in any case, an advocate may help you to fill up your request and defend your case in front of the arbitration committee.

Keep in mind that mediation is an alternative to having an arbitrator decide your case in the name of the community. I.e., other than the disputants will decide determine a commonly beneficial solution (what we could call a win win solution while arbitration is a win lose solution). It is in the best interest of disputants to solve a dispute through mediation rather than arbitration, because it is the disputants who agree together to a commonly beneficial solution.

What mediation is not

  1. Mediation is not Facilitation. So, while mediation may lead to better work on articles or between editors, it is not specifically designed to faciliate the editing of articles where people disagree but the issue has not come to an impasse yet.
  2. Mediation is not Arbitration. The arbitration process at Misplaced Pages exists to impose binding solutions to Misplaced Pages disputes. This solution may be anything up to and including a ban from editing the entire Misplaced Pages for a period of time. This is not the goal of mediation.
  3. Mediation is not Soapbox or Discussion Forum. If a user feels a need to have that kind of forum, the talk pages of users and article will have to suffice.
  4. Mediation is not a place to test Anarchism. The fact that Misplaced Pages is an open, self-governing project does not mean that any part of its purpose is to explore the viability of anarchistic communities. Our purpose is to build an encyclopedia, not to test the limits of anarchism. The mediation process is not to be used to test the limits of the community's forbearance.

What mediators are not

  1. Mediators are not Emissaries. It is not the job of mediators to pass messages between individuals who are not able to communicate. Mediators work to establish the trust and common ground to allow communication to happen.
  2. Mediators are not Private Investigators. Mediators do not "work for you," nor will they work to build a case against someone or research the facts in an article. Mediators will examine the facts surrounding the dispute in an attempt to understand what each party is looking for and to determine what may end the dispute.
  3. Mediators are not Psychologists or Social Workers. Mediators will work with both parties, and therefore cannot counsel or give advice to either party involved in the dispute.
  4. Mediators are not Advocates. Mediators will not take sides or promote one person's point of view or request over those of another person.
  5. Mediators are not Security Guards. Mediators are not there to protect an article or talk pages and will not watch for improper bahavior or violations of rules or guidelines. Nor will they report any incidents or document what happened in an incident report.

Possible measures if these guidelines are not being followed

For more information

You may wish to consult the following introductory link before formally asking for mediation: Misplaced Pages:Mediation (what is mediation)

Requests for mediation

It is always preferable for both parties to the dispute to request mediation. If possible please agree between you to request mediation before adding a request to this page. However, if you feel unable to approach the other party or feel that a mediator is needed to get an agreement to mediation then please ask.

It's important that this page should not become a second version of Misplaced Pages:Conflicts between users.

Please do not edit this page directly if you are not a participant in a case. Relevant comments may be left on the Talk page, and will be read in full.

See Misplaced Pages:Old mediation requests for past requests.

Please place requests at the bottom of the page, and date your comment

User:Rorschach567

X-Men a page I significantly built up, is being carelessly editted by User:Michael Rawdon. I have no problem with additions to the page but deletions and almost complete revisions to a perfectly good article are uncalled for. Thus far, Rawdon has refused to negotiate and I would like to request mediation.

I've left a message at User talk:Michael Rawdon asking if Michael is interested in mediation. Angela. 05:58, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

User:Herschelkrustofsky and User:DJSupreme23

There seems to be a deadlocked dispute over the article Synarchism. I indicated my willingness to accept mediation in Talk:Synarchism, and DJSupreme23 is apparently also willing to accept it.--Herschelkrustofsky 14:40, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I have asked User:DJSupreme23 to confirm he is willing to participate. Please could you also both look at Misplaced Pages:Mediation Committee and let me know if you have any preferences as to the mediator. Thanks -- sannse (talk) 18:54, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC) (mediation committee)
I have no preference -- --Herschelkrustofsky 19:52, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I accept the mediator. - Peter Perlsø 14:32, 2004 Jun 16 (UTC)
Peter, does that mean that you accept mediation and have no preference on who is the mediator? Sorry to be pickly, but I need to be clear on this. -- sannse (talk) 19:13, 16 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Sorry about my late reply. I have no preference. - Peter Perlsø 14:13, 2004 Jul 11 (UTC)

Hi. BCorr asked me to offer my services as a mediator. I have been around Misplaced Pages longer than 99% of anybody (!), and I'm fairly good at helping people find consensus on articles. Would you like some help? --Uncle Ed 00:34, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

User:Stirling Newberry and User:Terjepetersen

I am asking for mediation on this user, I feel that his sole purpose is to insert POV material into articles, and he has started an edit war over Supply-side economics. Stirling Newberry 12:19, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I have left a message for Terjepetersen on his talk page to see if he is willing to accept mediation. BCorr|Брайен 15:45, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)


User:AndyL and User:WHEELER

see Misplaced Pages:Requests for comment/User:WHEELER and associated TALK page. Specific complaint about his anti-Semitic comment on Talk:Early_National_Socialism but also about his general conduct around POV editing and unencyclopedic behaviour. AndyL 05:31, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I am in the process of contacting members of the Mediation Committee to identify one or more who would be able to take on this request. Thanks, BCorr|Брайен 18:38, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  1. I am willing to mediate. I am working full time, so the process might go slower than one or both parties want. -- llywrch 20:40, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  2. I too am willing, my time will be intermittent over the weekend, but Ill have enough attn to give to this. -Stevertigo 11:02, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  3. I am willing to mediate, preferably by private e-mail. --Uncle Ed 13:06, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  4. Cimon 17:47, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)
User:WHEELER has agreed to mediation. Unless AndyL expresses a preference for one of you, it would be great if someone could volunteer to begin the mediation and leave a note here indicating it is under way. Thanks, BCorr|Брайен 18:52, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Uncle Ed was involved at some point in disputes on pages related to Nazis/fascism so I don't think he'd be the best candidate since\he might be seen as already having opinions on editing these topics. AndyL 19:09, 12 Jul 2004 (UTC)

User:Simonides and User:Jayjg, User:RK, User:Humus sapiens + others

In the following articles, the users above have persistently engaged in 1) propaganda - ie either inserting wrong, unverified or unverifiable material that heavily promotes one POV, or providing only material that asserts one POV and ignores the other; 2) spamming the article rather than contributing, ie filling them with quotes and links which, again, only uncritically promote a POV; and on the article Talk pages, they have engaged in 3) protracted discussions in which they a) stubbornly refuse to accept errors of fact or reasoning; b) slander with baseless accusations of anti-Semitism and other charges, or of "censorship" when in fact a discussion has been requested or when material was in fact removed, because it was superfluous, unverifiable or factually incorrect and shown to be so; c) distort the sequence or nature of events in edit wars and discussions to conjure up further slanderous or unreasonable accusations, particularly ironic since they begin accusing me of actions they are guilty of:

Anti-Semitism, Anti-Zionism, Modern anti-Semitism (a now completely junk article), PLO and Hamas (which was voted for deletion), Media coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (the latter is now relatively stable) and perhaps other assorted articles.

Apart from their encounters with me, described above, what these users have in common is a) a heightened sensitivity to any disagreement on Middle-Eastern political and ethnic issues, to which they pretend to have exclusive or superior knowledge when in fact they cannot or do not back up a great deal of what they type; b) a tendency to present or promote common right-wing and/or pro-Zionist (but usually not Zionist itself) cliches and propaganda.

As will be noticed on the Talk pages, I have shown my irritability on several occasions, but in my defense I must point out that 1) some of the propaganda and slander is particularly malicious, not just with respect to myself but larger bodies of people; 2) the users are overwhelmingly persistent and tend to resort to a "pack mentality", grouping together to refute facts or arguments that are quite uncontroversial or self-evident, making it impossible to spend any spare time available on articles that need attention; 3) I am not the only person who has confronted the same people with similar issues. They make editing on Misplaced Pages, otherwise a pleasure, an odious and exhausting experience. -- Simonides 23:49, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Are you willing to try mediation to resolve this, or would you prefer to go straight to arbitration? (Be advised that the Arbitration Committee never resolves anything: they just issue rulings, like stay away from those pages for a month or you are banned from Misplaced Pages for a week. --Uncle Ed 12:33, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Ed, the Arbitration Committee has so far unanimously voted to refer this to mediation rather than accept the case. Given the relationship between mediation and arbitration, I don't think the mediators should be looking to pawn off cases on arbitration until mediation fails or has been rejected. The fact that Simonides comes here with a combative attitude (maybe because he's involved in a heated dispute?) does not mean the request is not in good faith. --Michael Snow 17:20, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Thank you Michael; the request is indeed in good faith and I am open to any processes that will prevent or restrain a small group of people ruining Misplaced Pages for every other newcomer who wishes to bring balance and accuracy to articles. -- Simonides 20:12, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
It may surprise you, but Jayjg and RK are also completely sincere editors, as sincere as you. If you all approach the mediation with a view to making a good article as opposed to one of vanquishing an idiot, there's no reason you can't work it out reasonably - David Gerard 20:18, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
David, I am not sure to what extent you keep yourself informed of the relevant news events or critical material, so I don't know what your standards for "sincere editing" are. If by sincere you simply mean an obsession with a constellation of topics, yes, the above editors are sincere. If by sincerity you mean the persistent insertion and defense of lumpenquotes, unverifiable points of view, and the substition of reliable, independent studies with "reports" gleaned from dodgy right-wing websites and magazines etc etc then no, I don't call that "complete sincerity." And as you will see from the Talk pages are no end of attempts at reasoning. However, they usually end at an impasse. While it is true that the above members are not the same and do not behave identically, what their edits have in common is objectionable. -- Simonides 20:48, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I have left messages for Jayjg, RK and User:Humus sapiens to ask if they will participate in this mediation. Angela. 05:54, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'm not going to bother defending myself against Simonides' many charges, except to say that I disagree with him on just about every point he has made concerning me above. My own concerns with Simonides are threefold:
1) His near constant use of ad hominem and insulting rhetoric directed (on Talk: pages) towards anyone with whom he disagrees. Included in this are his attempts to lump all those who disagree with him into some sort of agenda based cabal, with implications of conspiracy (witness his statements above, and in other in Talk: pages).
2) His consistent pattern of arbitrarily deleting any material with which he disagrees, stating that any who disagree with him are invariably incorrect, or that they must first edit their material to include all sorts of information which he apparently knows, but refuses to include himself.
3) His notion that he "owns" certain pages, and can thus dictate the rules for how they will be edited; he has even gone so far as to delete material he has agreed with (on the anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism pages), on the principle that all changes must be approved by him first regardless of their validity.
Regarding mediation itself, I welcome it. I requested arbitration with Simonides two or three days ago, but was told that arbitration would have to be preceded by mediation. I then asked Simonides if he would agree to mediation, which he said he would. I had (admittedly) not as yet figured out exactly how to get that mediation. However, I must point out, as I have said before to Simonides, I am myself, not RK, Humus Sapiens, or anyone else. I have never even visited some of the pages Simonides has mentioned above. And as much as Simonides would like to place me in some "pack", I can only speak for myself. Jayjg 06:41, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

See also

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