Misplaced Pages

• Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
• New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

• Assume good faith
• Be polite and avoid personal attacks
• Be welcoming to newcomers
• Seek dispute resolution if needed

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Toddst1 I am somewhat confused that you would choose to block me for edit waring and not at least also block the other editors involved when I was the one to come to you bringing to your attention that the disruptive editing and edit waring that was going on. I came to you in an attempt to get some resolution on the matter to try to stop the waring while at the same time I appealed to another editor for help in trying to invite other editors to make changes to the page in question so that this very defamatory page could be presented in a more honest way below is the request.

Disputes on a couple of pages-Please help if you can:

(posted to the talk page of user:LWG)

Hi, I'm a relatively new user to Misplaced Pages and I ran across your username while investigating the talk page for Misplaced Pages project Jehovah's Witnesses. Since your user page states that you specialize in WP:NPOV disputes, and you seem to have little or no affiliation with the editors I am currently having an issue with, I thought it might be a good idea to ask for your help in a matter with a couple of pages that I have been having difficulty editing since I got here. I will advise you, in advance, that I might not have proceeded in the wisest pattern of edit practices, partly because as a new editor I didn't know the rules, and partly out of frustration of having to deal with editors who cannot seem to be objective themselves(they even falsely accused me of being a WP:Sock) when it comes to material related to Jehovah's Witnesses. The problem of greatest concern is a series of web pages related to Misplaced Pages project Jehovah's Witnesses that are written in a very defamatory manner, filled with half truths, WP:NPOV, WP:OR and tend to misrepresent the source material to a great extent, by it seems, editors who have a WP:COI when it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses and also the utilization of source material that is the very definition of WP:fringe. The primary page of dispute at this point is the page http://en.wikipedia.org/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses_beliefs at which I have made more than a few attempts at "adjusting the page" to a less negative and defamatory article(remember what I said earlier about not always in the right manner, but I'm trying to learn the rules and follow them). I most recently made an edit that I think should be left intact, however one of the 3 disruptive editors who have continually fought against any objective change to this negatively written page reverted it, I filed a WP:ani complaint against him for disruptive editing and received a warning for Edit Waring, though I hadn't edited the page for 2 days. I had previously requested that the page be deleted, due to the pact that I felt that it would be a hopeless situation to try to convert the page into creditable material because I felt that I would never receive any real co-operation from the 3 editors in question( Jeffro77, BlackCab and Vyselink, two of which, if not all three, are members of Misplaced Pages project Jehovah's Witnesses. So if possible, please help. Maybe you could invite several neutral editors to come to the page and help rectify the pages negative structure. The second page is one on Bible Chronology, where I first encountered these editors and their WP:COI WP:NPOV with regards to material related to Jehovah's witnesses after correcting an incomplete and inaccurate chart on bible chronology, I would also like to possibly reach some type of compromise there with an editor who I believe just honestly wishes to have her material presented, she is Lisa, however, I feel that Jeffro77 has made it clear he will continue to revert any edit that I make that contains any material presented that is sourced by material written by Jehovah's Witnesses, even to such an extent that he seems to have become an "online Stalker" by following me from site to site reverting whatever edits I make, regardless of content or accuracy. The page in question is http://en.wikipedia.org/Chronology_of_the_Bible any help you provide would be appreciated as I know that this will take a bit of your time to sort out.Thanks.Willietell (talk) 16:18, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

To which you posted, without any evidence to support the accusation, in what I feel is a violation of WP:AGF As well as WP:Personal, this;

As an univolved administrator, I find it hard to believe that this user is new to Misplaced Pages. Beyond that, WP:Canvassing is not appropriate. Toddst1 (talk) 20:29, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Which is a very inappropriate and untrue comment, as I am in fact a new editor, and I'm not sure what WP:Canvassing is, but I will look it up. Perhaps there also needs to be a rule on WP:Online stalking to be applied editors who follow other from page to page reverting every edit they make? I don't know and perhaps you could inform me on just how to go about suggesting that one be put in place. However I feel that I am getting off topic. I have only been making honest efforts to correct a page that clearly violates WP:NPOV and WP:OR by editors who have clearly shown WP:COI . IN any case, 1. I am no more guilty of edit waring than the editors whom you chose NOT to discipline. 2. I have expressed evidence that I am looking for ways other than edit waring to make the needed changes to the page 3. I was the one to come to you about the edit waring in the first place, thus I and at this point of all the parties involved, only I, have demonstrated good faith in trying to correct the situation.

Also having looked at WP:canvassing, I noticed it states this "In general, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it is done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus. However canvassing which is done with the intention of influencing the outcome of a discussion in a particular way is considered inappropriate. This is because it compromises the normal consensus decision-making process, and therefore is generally considered disruptive behaviour". (behavior, by the way, is technically misspelled in the rule)

Surely, by reading my request to LWG it is clear to see that I am seeking "to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus." as I requested that he invite "several neutral editors to come to the page and help rectify the pages negative structure.", I thus requested that he invite editors who would conform to WP:NPOV in hopes of editing the page to be more in line with reality instead of being overrun by those who displayed that they indeed have a WP:COI , so your concern with regards to WP:canvassing seem unwarranted from what I read in the rules.

Your block seems to have been for edit waring on the page Pharaohs in the Hebrew Bible‎ which confuses me because I have been in discussions with the editor on the page regarding the edits, and have posted messages on their/ his page in an attempt to present an edit he/they feel is acceptable, as is noted below Pharaohs in the Hebrew Bible:

I am somewhat confused by your continued revert on the page Pharaohs in the Hebrew Bible. You have reverted to an edit that has NO CITED SOURCE MATERIAL, and yet, you state that you are reverting my material because you view it as OR....I'm at a loss for what basis you are using in 1. Preferring one edit over the other 2. Declaring that the edit I posted required any additional source material than the bible, which is what the overall article is based on to begin with and therefore the best source for the material under consideration. Please explain, I do not wish to, nor will I continue to engage in an edit war with you over this material, but I would like a reasonable explanation of you actions and your line of thinking on this edit as so far something seems amiss. Thanks.Willietell (talk) 00:36, 16 December 2011 (UTC) DougWeller, I'm going to make another attempt at it and provide a non-biblical source, hopefully it will meet your criteria, if not, since I am a new editor, maybe you can guide me through it, because the information I have put in the edit is factually correct. Hopefully this time I get it right, please don't report me for edit Waring, because that isn't what I'm trying to do here, it's just that I'm new and haven't caught on yet.ThanksWillietell (talk) 05:24, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

I think this as well at the conversation posted on the talk page for Pharaohs in the Hebrew Bible‎ clearly show that this is not an edit war, but an honest attempt to reach consensus on what source material is considered acceptable and properly cited. I received no warning for edit waring on Pharaohs in the Hebrew Bible‎ and therefore don't think that any of the editors involved felt that I was attempting to edit war, Additionally, the last edit I made to the page was prior to you issuing a warning for edit waring, so I am confused again as to this block and must wonder if it is related to your possible relationship with the editor(s) in question on the page Jehovah's Witnesses Beliefs , please explain as as I am considering filing an ANI complaint for abuse of administrator power.Willietell (talk) 18:25, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

You were warned about edit warring here, and continued edit warring here. I'm not sure what your issue with the block is, and the two other admins who reviewed it both endorsed it. Toddst1 (talk) 18:43, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

One of my issues is that my last edit of the page other than in talk, came at 12:38 AM on December 16 shown here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Pharaohs_in_the_Bible&diff=prev&oldid=466114890 Your edit waring warning, the only one I ever received, from you or anyone else, came to me at 4:27 PM on December 16th, a full 16 hours after my last page edit, as shown here;

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring states: Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right. If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Toddst1 (talk) 04:27, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

and I was blocked by you after making no additional edits at 8:35PM on December 16th as shown here;

You have been blocked temporarily from editing for edit warring, as you did at Pharaohs in the Bible. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. Toddst1 (talk) 20:35, 16 December 2011 (U

Which shows that I first of all received only a single warning, and secondly, that you blocked me even though I made no edits after the warning was given...to me, this indicates that you were committed to blocking me regardless of what I did, and it is of no consequence that other administrators failed to overturn the block, since administrators are directed not to do so without discussing this with the blocking administrator first without very good reason, and I doubt that either of the administrators took the time to conduct a through investigation into the block, one even stating it was only a short block, so take a walk or something. Anyway, I would like a reasonable explanation for your unjustified actions and an apology would seem in order as well.Willietell (talk) 23:25, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Warning at 04:27, 16 December 2011, more edit warring at 05:38, 16 December 2011, block at 20:35, 16 December 2011. I don't know how much plainer to explain it to you. We're done here. Toddst1 (talk) 23:33, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

We are not "done here", the messages are time stamped and clearly the time you would like to assign to my edit is incorrect as it is time stamped as having been completed at 00:38 AM on December 16th and NOT at 5:38 PM as you indicate. Together with the fact that NO ONE editing the page filed any complaint about edit waring and that you chose to "take it upon yourself" to determine that this was taking place without anyone mentioning it to you makes your motives seem questionable at best, I am still awaiting an explanation, not a history log, but an explanation for you apparent misuse of the authority entrusted to you by Misplaced Pages. I am making every effort to get this resolved here, without filing an ANI complaint and requesting that your administrator authority be taken away so again, please explain.Willietell (talk) 15:01, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Notice

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is protection_request. Thank you. causa sui (talk) 18:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

User:LAz17

Now, I'm not quite clear on the current status of User:LAz17's limited topic ban, but from what I can make out from the description on WP:ARBMAC, LAz17's is not supposed to engage in "contentious editing on the historical demographics of ex-Yugoslavia". I could be missing something here, but if so, on Yugoslav Partisans he's not only posting edits he knows are opposed on the talkpage (on the basis of WP:OR), but he's also enaged in an edit-war to keep those edits in . Could I ask you to please clarify the situation? --DIREKTOR 18:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Toddst? --DIREKTOR 19:27, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Started looking at this and had to slip away to a meeting. Stand by. Toddst1 (talk) 20:01, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

I just want to inform that the article has actually a long-standing dispute, and as much as Laz´s edits are oposed, the edits of the "oposing ones" are also disputed. FkpCascais (talk) 20:23, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not saying that Laz is the only one in the wrong here. However, he violated the unblocking deal and has now been indeffed. See Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#protection_request Toddst1 (talk) 20:24, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

I know, I know, no problem at all. I was just saying this as sometimes non-involved admins may assume the principle that a blocked user is automatically "wrong" in a dispute. :) FkpCascais (talk) 20:27, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Pork pie hat edit summ. & crazy IP

Hi, I wish you had not deleted that summary because I was hoping to cite it against this IP editor. This IP needs to be indefblocked but how do we work our way up to it if the behaviour is deleted? Djathinkimacowboy 21:53, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

IPs aren't indeffed for stuff like this. They're just blocked for successively longer periods of time. I'll be glad to undelete it but not further action can or should be taken wrt the IP. Toddst1 (talk) 21:55, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Yes of course; I appreciate that. I was hoping to approach this through proper channels if the time came, that's all. It is pretty clear the IP is gunning for future trouble but we cannot second-guess these editors. Cheers. Djathinkimacowboy 22:03, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

OK, I've un-deleted it. Knock yourself out. Toddst1 (talk) 22:03, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Todd, did you examine the edit history? I smell a sock, and it makes me nervous to see in IP specifically 'gunning' for Salvio. Salvio blocked IP 58, as you'll see, for silly disruptions and I have to wonder who this weird IP actually is....In any case, I do not have the time or the respect I should have to try to get this IP in trouble. I hoped you would do something. Djathinkimacowboy 22:11, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

The socking isn't extremely apparent. Please {{ipsock}} tag the IP. Toddst1 (talk) 22:15, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

About editing issues

Hi, there!

I have some editing issues and need some help from you. Is it okay with you if I write some questions on your talk page??

Thanks in advance.Jsyun true (talk) 01:05, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Again...

Sorry, but you are familiar with the situation. All and everything i see is WP:DE, even without any special example. See for your self. Constant removing of everything that is not Albanian, diff, diff adding of Albanian where is irrelevant, diff, or not quite true diff. Bad faith reports diff (WP:BOOMERANG)... As you blocked this user just over month ago, for similar nationalistic removal of Serbian related data on Kosovo, it looks like user is not willing to cooperate, despite WP:ARBMAC warnings and block. This is simply too much. --WhiteWriter 02:30, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Abuse of administrator authority continued:

I am restarting in a new section, because you collapsed the other section on the basis it was a "long diatribe"

One of my issues is that my last edit of the page other than in talk, came at 12:38 AM on December 16 shown here;

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Pharaohs_in_the_Bible&diff=prev&oldid=466114890 Your edit waring warning, the only one I ever received, from you or anyone else, came to me at 4:27 PM on December 16th, a full 16 hours after my last page edit, as shown here;

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.

Please be particularly aware, Misplaced Pages's policy on edit warring states: Edit warring is disruptive regardless of how many reverts you have made; that is to say, editors are not automatically "entitled" to three reverts. Do not edit war even if you believe you are right. If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing. Toddst1 (talk) 04:27, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

and I was blocked by you after making no additional edits at 8:35PM on December 16th as shown here;

You have been blocked temporarily from editing for edit warring, as you did at Pharaohs in the Bible. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first. During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection. Toddst1 (talk) 20:35, 16 December 2011 (U

Which shows that I first of all received only a single warning, and secondly, that you blocked me even though I made no edits after the warning was given...to me, this indicates that you were committed to blocking me regardless of what I did, and it is of no consequence that other administrators failed to overturn the block, since administrators are directed not to do so without discussing this with the blocking administrator first without very good reason, and I doubt that either of the administrators took the time to conduct a through investigation into the block, one even stating it was only a short block, so take a walk or something. Anyway, I would like a reasonable explanation for your unjustified actions and an apology would seem in order as well.Willietell (talk) 23:25, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Warning at 04:27, 16 December 2011, more edit warring at 05:38, 16 December 2011, block at 20:35, 16 December 2011. I don't know how much plainer to explain it to you. We're done here. Toddst1 (talk) 23:33, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

We are not "done here", the messages are time stamped and clearly the time you would like to assign to my edit is incorrect as it is time stamped as having been completed at 00:38 AM on December 16th and NOT at 5:38 PM as you indicate. Together with the fact that NO ONE editing the page filed any complaint about edit waring and that you chose to "take it upon yourself" to determine that this was taking place without anyone mentioning it to you makes your motives seem questionable at best, I am still awaiting an explanation, not a history log, but an explanation for you apparent misuse of the authority entrusted to you by Misplaced Pages. Again, please explain.Willietell (talk) 14:53, 21 December 2011 (UTC)