Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 16:14, 28 December 2011

This is the talk page for discussing WikiProject Islam and anything related to its purposes and tasks.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12Auto-archiving period: 2 months

Islam Project‑class

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related Project This page does not require a rating on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.

To-do list for Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Islam: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2024-10-08 Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Article requests : Prosperos Assess : rate the Unassessed Islam-related articles and Unknown-importance Islam-related articles, tag the talk pages of Islam-related articles with the {{WikiProject Islam}} banner. Cleanup : A cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the tool's wiki page and the index of WikiProjects. Copyedit : listed at Islam articles needing attention Deletion sorting : listed at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Islam Infobox : listed at Islam articles needing infoboxes Maintain : visit WikiProject Islam/Article alerts Notability : listed at WikiProject Notability (WikiProject Islam listing) Portal : maintain Portal:Islam, fill in Anniversaries, update Did you know?, suggest Selected articles and Selected biographies, add {{Portal|Islam}} to the See also section of Islam-related articles. Stubs : Islam by country stubs, Islamic biography stubs, Islamic organization stubs, Islamic studies book stubs, Mosque stubs, Quran stubs, more... The project : Join WikiProject Islam and list yourself as a Participant in the project.

Islam-related articles by quality and importance Quality Importance Top High Mid Low NA Other ??? Total FA 1 8 9 15 33 FL 1 1 2 FM 22 22 A 1 1 2 GA 7 13 39 79 13 151 B 81 119 242 465 109 1,016 C 112 156 427 1,605 367 2,667 Start 39 87 457 3,757 1 977 5,318 Stub 5 11 197 3,002 804 4,019 List 1 13 116 194 3 48 375 Category 3,833 4 3,837 Disambig 126 126 File 25 25 Portal 318 318 Project 58 58 Redirect 6 15 46 144 445 656 Template 317 317 NA 1 9 19 29 Other 96 96 Assessed 252 423 1,535 9,272 5,263 4 2,318 19,067 Unassessed 7 474 481 Total 252 423 1,535 9,279 5,263 4 2,792 19,548 WikiWork factors (?) ω = 64,724 Ω = 4.90

Article alerts

This is a notice to let you know about Article alerts, a fully-automated subscription-based news delivery system designed to notify WikiProjects and Taskforces when articles are entering Articles for deletion, Requests for comment, Peer review and other workflows (full list). The reports are updated on a daily basis, and provide brief summaries of what happened, with relevant links to discussion or results when possible. A certain degree of customization is available; WikiProjects and Taskforces can choose which workflows to include, have individual reports generated for each workflow, have deletion discussion transcluded on the reports, and so on. An example of a customized report can be found here.

If you are already subscribed to Article Alerts, it is now easier to report bugs and request new features. We are also in the process of implementing a "news system", which would let projects know about ongoing discussions on a wikipedia-wide level, and other things of interest. The developers also note that some subscribing WikiProjects and Taskforces use the display=none parameter, but forget to give a link to their alert page. Your alert page should be located at "Misplaced Pages:PROJECT-OR-TASKFORCE-HOMEPAGE/Article alerts". Questions and feedback should be left at Misplaced Pages talk:Article alerts.

Message sent by User:Addbot to all active wiki projects per request, Comments on the message and bot are welcome here.

Thanks. — Headbomb {_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 09:17, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

Translation for the article Mosque of Uqba

Hi, Mosque of Uqba or Great Mosque of Kairouan is one of the best preserved and oldest monuments (mosques) in Islamic civilization. It is also a great masterpiece of architecture. The french version "Grande mosquée de Kairouan" is a featured article (in french Article de qualité). It would be very interesting to translate the french article. I can help for the architectural terms. Cordially Quincy2010 (talk) 01:35, 16 March 2010 (CET)

Request for input in discussion forum

Given the closely linked subjects of the various religion, mythology, and philosophy groups, it seems to me that we might benefit from having some sort of regular topical discussion forum to discuss the relevant content. I have put together the beginnings of an outline for such discussion at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Religion/2011 meeting, and would very much appreciate the input of any interested editors. I am thinking that it might run over two months, the first of which would be to bring forward and discuss the current state of the content, and the second for perhaps some more focused discussion on what, if any, specific efforts might be taken in the near future. Any and all input is more than welcome. John Carter (talk)

_{Automated message by Project Messenger Bot from John Carter at 15:44, 5 April 2011}

Islam and Domestic Violence

I believe that WikiProject Islam has several informative subpages and legitimate information. However, I believe that overall it lacks various contrasting viewpoints about disputations in Islam. There are several stereotypes and issues society does not fully comprehend about the religion, such as women's roles and domestic violence. Specifically, I propose to expand on knowledge about Islamic women who are victims of domestic violence in various countries in a subpage of WikiProject Islam. I will be updating and expanding an existing article on Misplaced Pages called “Islam and domestic violence.” Topics that will be covered in our revised page will be: the definition of domestic violence, a general overview of Islamic and it’s effect on women, honor-related violence, current attitudes towards violence in Islamic countries, individual and community-level violence, and possible solutions to put an end to domestic violence. I plan to also write about interpretations of the Qur'an and how several interpretations dispute each other. (TasneemIslam1025 (talk) 15:50, 19 October 2011 (UTC))

Muhammad, visual depictions and the sore need for expert commentary

At AN/I there is currently a discussion that relates to whether or not it is appropriate or accurate/educational to have depictions of Muhammad throughout that entry. For the AN/I discussion see - HERE. For the discussion at the entry talk page see - Talk:Muhammad/images. The reason I'm posting here is that I'm surprised by some of the comments being made by various contributors. For instance, just now I was told that Muhammad is not a religious article, it is merely a biography. I clearly disagree completely. This discussion is in sore need of knowledgeable commentators. Cheers.Griswaldo (talk) 18:28, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Said Nursi, The Article Importance

Hi, I just add this article into high importance list and WPI Muslim scholars task force. This scholar lived in Turkey and wrote 6000 pages books and these books translated to 45 diffirent languages and pretty much international symposiums organised on him. And I think he is one the most famous 20th century scholar. I hope we can improve this article together. Thank you --rinduzahid 15:34, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Central Mosque Wembley

This has been nominated for deletion within 3 hours of creation. The article needs work, but I am sure that it can be saved. Discussion at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Central Mosque Wembley. Jezhotwells (talk) 23:15, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Abd Allah ibn Hijazi al-Sharqawi

Abd Allah ibn Hijazi al-Sharqawi was apparently a Khalwati sufi scholar around 1800. The article's pretty terrible and stubby, and I'm not sure it actually establishes notability at the moment. But I'm more concerned about the birth year listed here. I have pretty serious reservations about the editor who added it (I just sent the two articles he created to AFD as probably hoaxes), and I'm having trouble finding confirmation in anything that's not a Misplaced Pages mirror. But I have poor availability of reference material that would cover 19th century Egyptian Islamic scholars to begin with. Could anyone with better resources take a peek? Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 17:50, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Dear Ossifrage, I am also not sure whether he's enough notable or no. He was a scholar of Al-Azhar. Google search gives almost half a million result for his name (using Arabic script). Anyway, I added the link of Arabic wiki to the article.--Aliwiki (talk) 21:52, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Hrm. Well, as I suspected, the English article's birth year was a problem. The Arabic Misplaced Pages has him born in 1150 AH. Unless I'm really bad at this, that's more like 1737 than 1759, and I've adjusted our article to match the Arabic one, which I have more faith in. With that many results from Google, I'm inclined to think there's sourcing possible out there. I'm sort of out of my element here, so improvements are probably going to have to come from someone else, but I won't try to hit the article up for deletion or anything. Thanks for the help. Squeamish Ossifrage (talk) 23:33, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Dispute at Ali that needs help

If anyone here is active, I could use some help at Talk:Ali. Two editors are arguing about...well, I'm not entirely sure. I think about how to spell or describe Ali and/or his father in English, along with a lot of other details. Part of the discussion revolves around Arabic sources, which I cannot read and thus have no useful input on. Additionally, there are concerns about what constitutes a primary source and what constitutes a secondary source, and how to interact with both. The main discussion is in the section Talk:Ali#Aparytai's additions. Thanks for your help. Qwyrxian (talk) 08:13, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Help with Islamic art article

Hi, I noticed that a very important subject in Islamic art, the rock crystal ewer, has not had much attention paid to it. Please help with adding info to it if you are interested in Islamic art. Thanks --Turn685 (talk) 09:51, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Yemeni Quran codices

Hi! Not sure if anybody's found it out yet, but I found a source about the Quran...

• Lester, Toby. "What Is the Koran?" The Atlantic. January 1999.

WhisperToMe (talk) 01:37, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

CNN religion article

This article describes a survey which concluded that Muslims are more religious than followers of other major religions

• Greene, Richard Allen. "Conflict, theology and history make Muslims more religious than others, experts say." CNN. December 3, 2011.

WhisperToMe (talk) 04:29, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Arabic speaker required – hadith wording

Could one of our Arabic speakers please confirm what the original Arabic phrase is for the words "noble features" in Hadith no. 7 on this page? The corresponding Arabic page is here. If you could give me a Romanised transliteration of the original Arabic words, I'd be very grateful. Thanks, JN466 01:45, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

The Arabic phrase used is "ḥilyat al-nabī" (tra. "the hilya of the Prophet"). Most likely referring to a verbal description of the looks and manners of the Prophet rather than any written form of hilya. Wiqi 20:06, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Wiqi55. Am I correct in assuming that ḥilya just means "description" here? I'm confused, because some sources translate it as "adornment", and others as "description", "appearance". I imagine that in the situation described here, if a child asks his uncle, he would simply ask "what did he look like?" --JN466 23:15, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I have just checked al-munjid (the standard modern Arabic-Arabic dictionary) and two sense of hilya are given:

* al-ḥilya: "what is used for adornment, like certain minerals or gemstones."

* ḥilyat al-insān (tr. "the hilya of a person"): "what is seen from color, appearance, and form."

My guess is that "hilya" in the linked narration denotes what is seen of the Prophet, i.e., his color, appearance, form, etc.

Reference: al-Munjid fi al-lughah wa-al-alam (33 ed.). Dar al-Mashriq. 1992. p. 150.. Wiqi 13:41, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, looks like we're getting closer. I guess the question is whether "ḥilyat al-nabī" or "my "ḥilya" in the sense of "my form" is used in the Arabic original of any hadith that could reasonably be assumed to underlie the one cited by Schimmel, Zakariya et al. --JN466 07:05, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

Barnstar challenge

For a barnstar, is anyone able to locate this alleged hadith (cf. also Gruber, , ) in one of the hadith collections? It's attributed to Tirmidhi by Schimmel, but no one can find it there. It appears it was also quoted by Mehmet Khaqani in his Hilye-i Serife, but again, no one seems to know in which Hadith collection this or similar ahadith can be found. Cheers, JN466 01:45, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

A similar hadith is discussed here (probably the "sees me" is equivalent to "seeing my hilya"?). Wiqi 20:42, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

This sounds like it could be one of the ahadith here , in Tirmidhi's Shamaa-il. (Arabic), e.g. 391, 394, 395 etc. But do any of these use the word hilya in the Arabic original? I've been told (over on German Misplaced Pages) that they do not, and that it's something of a mystery why some recent and older writers have translated such passages (if these are indeed the ahadith concerned) using the word "hilye", if the Arabic word "hilya" does not occur in the Arabic original of the ahadith.

As far as I can tell at the moment, there seems to be some confusion between Turkish and Arabic language usage. In Turkish, hilya or hilye is used to denote a short, telegrammatic text describing the physical appearance and character of an esteemed person, above all of course the Prophet himself. Turkish calligraphists will say that there are hilyes (verbal descriptions) of Moses, Jesus, Abu Bakr and many other such persons, using this as a technical term to denote the type of short descriptive texts that they use for hilye calligraphy (or even sometimes inscribed on a rose, apparently). However, in Arabic, I'm told by Arabic speakers over on German Misplaced Pages, hilya does not have that meaning, i.e. it does not denote a literary genre consisting of short descriptive texts. Of course such descriptions exist in the ahadith and elsewhere, but there is no literary category label in Arabic calling such texts "hilyas". The Hilyat al-Awliya’ by Abu Nu’aym, for example, does not consist of such texts. It is simply a collection of biographies.

It's come up because the alleged references by the Prophet to "my hilye" in the ahadith has obviously played a role in the reception of hilya calligraphy in the Ottoman Empire, leading to the viewing of hilyes being considered as a mystical way of "seeing" the prophet in one's mind's eye (as in a dream), with the attendant benefits for one's soul. The missing link is how the Prophet's statements on a believer seeing him in a dream came to be reassigned to mean a believer reading a (calligraphic) description of his appearance (as in Taskale's version of the hadith, clearly referring to a written document). Does that make sense? --JN466 23:44, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

2nd opinion sought

I just noticed in the article End time there is a lengthy list titled "Minor signs" under Sunni Islam. The list is unsourced; a few cursory searches resulted in similar lists, but none at any sites that appeared to be very scholarly. The list itself seems kind of dubious to me, and the annotations aren't helpful in determining the source. Thoughts? OhNoitsJamie 21:50, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree that list is a bit crufty. Unless a source can be found, I would support removing the "Minor signs" list. Kaldari (talk) 22:10, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Help with sources needed

I've recently copyedited the Muhammad Qadiri article substantially, both to remove the flagrant POV violations and to improve the flow of text. However, I've really struggled to find sources for it. None of the sources mentioned in the References list appear to exist (leastways not in a format I can access), and the only other mentions I can find are from Naushahia-related sources, which disqualifies them from establishing notability per WP:GNG and WP:SPS.

I'm hoping someone more expert with Arabic sources can take a look over the alleged references listed at the bottom of the article and turn at least some of them into inline cites - or better yet, locate some other third-party sources that could be used to fulfil WP:NOTE. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:13, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Islah (concept)

The article Islah (concept) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

The corresponding Dab contains the only encyclopedia-worthy content this article has seen in its more than six years' existence. If its prose content can be expanded beyond a dictdef, it's high time to do so.

While all contributions to Misplaced Pages are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Jerzy•t 04:53, 15 December 2011 (UTC) Timestamp: 20111215044412

Concubinage

Recently, a substantial section has been added to the article on Concubinage as it pertains to the theology of Islam (see Concubinage#In Islamic theology). The section raises many interesting points and is a needed and potentially valuable addition to the article, but has some instances of non-encyclopedic tone and could use some copyediting, wikification, and general scrutiny from knowledgeable, experienced editors. Since I lack an adequate frame of reference, I just thought I'd call it to the attention of editors here. Cynwolfe (talk) 16:54, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Request for third opinion

Can another set of eyes please add their thoughts at Talk:Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab#Sunni or Kharijite. An editor keeps trying to support contentious claims with unreliable sources, despite repeated warnings. I've begun dialogue on the talk page, but that hasn't paused the editor's article adjustments. I've also requested at WikiProject Biography. Thank you. ClaretAsh 00:01, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Requested move on Honor killing of Sadia Sheikh

Only topic on Talk:Honor killing of Sadia Sheikh. Proposal is change to Killing of Sadia Sheikh. CarolMooreDC 16:14, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

• Project-Class Islam-related pages
• NA-importance Islam-related pages
• WikiProject Islam articles
• Misplaced Pages pages with to-do lists