Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 22:22, 6 January 2012

Religion C‑class

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Misplaced Pages's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. ??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Albania C‑class High‑importance

Religion in Albania is part of the WikiProject Albania, an attempt to co-ordinate articles relating to Albania on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. If you are new to editing Misplaced Pages visit the welcome page so as to become familiar with the guidelines. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.AlbaniaWikipedia:WikiProject AlbaniaTemplate:WikiProject AlbaniaAlbania C This article has been rated as C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

70/30 Propaganda

Ploutarchos, why do you keep putting that 70% of Albanians are Muslims? That is completely wrong and unbased. Even the CIA source mentions that that information is just an estimate, because there is no official data on the matter. The truth is that the majority of Albanians in Albania are not affiliated with any religion, since that is how they were all raised during communism. Obviously the real latest official data dates from back in 1967 when we OFFICIALLY were proclaimed the first Atheist country in the world. So yeah, if you need to have official data, we being Atheists is the latest one. (read the second paragraph here: http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article-196152). The is absolutely no official data after that. Calling us Muslims just because you need to include us in a religious group is offensive. - David

Wasn't Cuba also atheist for a long time (I realize it definitely became officially secular in the 90s but I thought it was atheist before that) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.82.227.246 (talk) 03:52, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

All reliable sources say just under 70% of Albania is Muslim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.132.133.60 (talk) 15:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay the CIA factbook gives an estimate on the religious affiliation of the Albanians(and states that it is an estimate). So where does this statement come from? "The majority of Albanians today are either Atheists or Agnostics". Isn't some proof required to back it up. The links provided do not give any proof. And 40% is not majority! What information did they use? Who did they survey? That would be like me visiting a Muslim area in Paris and coming up with a theory that all the French are Muslim? Does this make sense? No! If the people surrounding you are atheist, then say that, back up your evidence.

In addition to this what is meant by Albanian. Citizens of Albania? or the national group Albanian? (Honesty 23:22, 1 July 2007 (UTC))

i suggest you all look at the well respected European Values Survey of 2002 available online at http://www.worldvaluessurvey.org/ this gives a survey figure that 87% of Albanians considered themselves to be a memember of a religion and of this 87% 66,9% were Muslim, 20.8% Orthodox, 10.1% Catholic. this survey set worship attedandance at 29.4% monthly. note though that most surveys over estimate actual attendance. 217.44.159.173 (talk) 12:37, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

you just cannot start of by saying that the majority are agnostics... many sites and books state that albania, along with bosnia and turkey are moslem countries... i think that this article needs some fixing.. and albanianism?? what is it?? please define.. do you know what agnostics even means??? it means that people do not at all practice religion at all... albania might be a country where religion is less pronounced ... that doesn't mean that it is agnostic.... this article defenitely needs to be fixed by a albania specialist. eg someone who lives there. Canadian (talk) 03:28, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I am Albanian, who lives in Albania and added a very good source of information, Gallup, which says that in 2010 61% of Albanians were non-religious, meaning that they were atheists, agnostics or just not interested at all in any religion. Living for all my life in Albania and being an Albanian, I would say that this figure is higher, probably up to 70% or 80%. If you just visit any religious edifice in Albania, like mosque, church or turbe, and you will see that the number of people participating in the religious ceremonies can be counties with the fingers of your right hand. (Edvin (talk) 23:04, 2 January 2012 (UTC))

Take it easy, you're not the first to understand you've been lied to about Albania being a Muslim country. Misinformation has been going on for whole decades. Non-Albanians find it difficult to believe at first, and can't get used to the fact that religion was undesired for us, and as soon as we got independent we purged them. Come to terms with it. You as non-Albanians can't go on forever naming and tagging us according to your preconceptions. You can't call me or the guy next to me a Catholic or a Muslim because someone of my and his grand-grandfathers may have been such. Religion is not a genetic trait. Face reality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.24.249.202 (talk) 10:48, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

I live in Albania, religion in Albania is not important and I tell you that in Albania there's never been an official statistic or study to show thhe percentage of the religions in the country, but I'm sure that the truth is that Islam in Albania is less than 50% and that a lot of people have 2 religions such as me.(I was born half Orthodox and half Muslim but I identify myself as an atheist because I'm indifferent if there exists something.)But for one thing I'm sure and the article is right more than 50% of the people are Atheists or Agnostics, personally I don't know anyone who believes in God and especially the young people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.24.250.130 (talk) 16:08, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Merger Proposal

The Religion in Albania page needs to be filled out quite a bit, to be sure. Furthermore, as has been mentioned on the Talk:Islam in Albania page, the article is more about religion in general than about Islam. --Rschmertz 04:34, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree, this article should be merged with "religion in Albania" --Noah30 18:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

No, Islam in Albania is part of the series of Islam by country. It can't be merged with Religion in Albania. 24.166.181.95 17:30, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, I reverted before noticing your comment, so please disregard my change summary. Still, you should not delete these proposals so hastily. I recognize your point, but the existence of a series does not override all other concerns, IMHO. --Rschmertz 21:05, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Indeed this article is very weak. I will try soon to work on this article, and use my work on my website TheAlbanians.com

I do not have enough time right now but when i have some fre time I will come back to revise this page.Albanians do not have one official religion. - VasilGjika

Christianity

Article says:

Christianity was imposed in urban centers in the region of Albania during Roman rule by the middle of the 1st century AD.

That's just plain impossible. Christianity was a minority religion in the period c. 50 CE, with no official recognition. There is no way it was "imposed in urban centers" in the middle of the 1st century. About three centuries later (don't know exact figure), the claim would be true though. Going to remove the reference to 1st century. --SJK (talk) 10:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Antiquity

Most of churches where albanians live , are build on the Ruins of more older churches or Castles , so they date from 100 A.D.when cristianity spread to Illyrians from Saint Pal . Following the many rage conquerors and bloody wars , some of the Albanian churches and other cultural and defence buildings (called in Albanian-"Kulla") ... were destroyed . Still Albanians arrived to save some of them , and today they are a big cultural value . But, some of these buildings today are used for political manipulation , for example Monastery of Deqan , which the serb entitie pretends to claim , without dignity , and use for political manners, but the truth that everyone knows is that , the Monastery of Decan was build time ago , before the slavic "big raid" in Balkan Peninsula , in the centuries 7 - 8 A.D, Monastery of Deqan was build by Albanians , and still there are proofs of Albanian prezence(paintings in the monastery with men wearing the white albanian hat called plisi), which the Serbs keep in top secret , where rare people can visit it , because of the Serbs pretend that it's a matter of Security , and highly guarded by KFOR troops , which is not neccessary , cause in Kosova the situation is clear and freedom is for all . —Preceding unsigned comment added by ValdrinMaliqi (talk • contribs) 18:40, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Childish

Could you stop this childish situation reverting edits of each other. This is talk page, and everybody has the right to speak.balkanian (talk) 18:10, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

NPOV

I see that some the numbers are not being presented correctly, therefore this article does not present dhe religous reality in Albania. I hope someone can contribute to make this article neutral.

What is this? 70% Atheism? Is that a joke? Islam is the domintating religion in Albania and the man who has wrote this shitt on wikipedia needs to be shott down. Islam in Albania are about making 60-70% of the population. I live in Albania and the man who wrote this must be the dumbest one I have seen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Albaneren (talk • contribs) 15:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I live in Albania too, and it's not true that 70% of the population is Islamic because Albania has no official statistics on the religious issue and in Albania there are a lot of people that are half christians and half Islamics( me too). And Atheism is not a religion it's about you, do you believe in god or not... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.24.250.130 (talk) 16:01, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I live in Albania too and i strongly believe that religion in Albania is only culturally inportant (e.g holydays, traditions, etc). I agree with the figure 70% atheists. Religion does not play an important role in Albanian life or at least i never experienced it. When you ask many people if they believe in God or not, very often thay will reply that thay do not trust religious institutions but they are positive about the existence of a supernatural being or force. The rest, including me, will give a plain answer that God does not exist. ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.78.69.234 (talk) 22:13, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

How can Islam be 70% of the population when 71% of Albanians in Albania are not religious and do not follow any religion (atheists. agnostic, pagan)? Maybe it 70% of the 39%, meaning that it is 27.3% of the population. (Edvin (talk) 21:12, 5 January 2012 (UTC))

"Propaganda and Misinformation"

This whole section is very POV, there is one citation that is taken out of context. "Perpetuating misinformation"? I'm going to rename the section "misconceptions" and try to make it more NPOV. Thoughts? Αεκος (talk) 20:42, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Unreliable

This article seems extremly unreliable, and i mean the difference between 25% religious and 95% religious. The important thing is the self reported religious affiliation of the albanian people, isn't this data available from a recent official census or some recent polling from a credible institution at least ?

Last official data are those of 90% atheists. Some go further, they take the last official data of 2 centuries ago when 101% of Albanians were religious... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.91.115.229 (talk) 14:44, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Data

79.9% Muyslim is not correct because it is talking only for muslim, and do not have the datas about ather religions. And you can not put and the top that information, but say that there are 4 religions, and mos of albanians do not practice any religions. So, http://www.scribd.com/doc/15738681/Feja-ne-Shqiperi1,

if you see, 10% practice islam, but not 79.9%. --Albopedian (talk) 16:50, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I moved the statistic further down and wrote a new lead paragraph introducing the major religions in the country and mentioning that many are nonreligious. --Local hero 16:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! I think that it's better put the mos neutral statistics, and, in the middle of 10% and 79% to put 38% (of the sources that i linked) and catholics 13% (according to the albanian catholic church). 700.000 are orthodox (see Albanian Orthodox Church, so 22%, and the other are atheists or without religion. It's better than spreading disinformation. Thank you!--Albopedian (talk) 17:04, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

The source of information for Albania for the Pew Research Center study is UNICEF's 2005 MICS3 survey (zipped PDF). One of the tables in that study says that 79.9 % of heads of households are Muslim and the remaining 20.1 % are Orthodox/Catholic/Other. Svick (talk) 17:31, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I did some more research and the CIA factbook gives "Muslim 70%, Albanian Orthodox 20%, Roman Catholic 10%", with a note that this is only an estimate. Operation World gives: Christian – 1,291,452 adherents (41.48 %); Muslim – 1,207,701 adherents (38.79 %); non-Religious/other – 608,365 adherents (19.54 %) and also says "Over 50% of the population is culturally Muslim, but superstition and folk Islam are strong." Maybe this is where the confusion comes from – cultural vs. actual Muslims. Svick (talk) 17:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

Religious superstition, and It's not possible that 50% of the population is "culturaly muslim", because they had 45 years of state atheism. http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2009/127295.htm This is for the first "citation needed". If anyone visits Albania, his people and state do not know what is religion. How you see, it's impossible that 100% of population (according to CIA) to be religious. It's not funny. This data cames from pre-WWII time, and after there is the state atheism.

This is for the citation needed about religious harmony: http://www.un.org/ga/64/generaldebate/pdf/AL_en.pdf --Albopedian (talk) 20:46, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

We also can not call Muslim person that never have seen e mosque in their life (like me). Actual muslims, if the 60-75% of population do not practice any religion, maybe 10%-15% practice islam, and other maybe are christians. And in ALbania there are a lot of people that have parents of different religions, but doi not practice anyone, so, of wich group is he part? There are a confusion, confusiong and disinformating people about religion in Albania. So, i think that's better to put the data of Operation World, and ad that Albania is a secular country with a non practising majority. --Albopedian (talk) 20:55, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

I'm not understanding why: - Local hero deletes "Albania do not have official statistics _ Put in all pages about albania, 79,9% are muslims (bektashi or sunni, practising or not???) and doesn't talk about other religions? Is it possibile to be 100% religious? Are you trolling or what? 79,9% is not neutral, and also 9% muslim is not neutral, why do you not let it at 38%?? Can I also add that, according to another statistics, 70% of them are atheists?--Albopedian (talk) 16:28, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Why do you keep deleting a reliable, recent source about the precentage of Muslims in Albania on every single page relating to Albania and religion? It is possible to be 100% religious, although I never said that was the case in Albania. 79.9% is completely neutral, done by the Pew Research Center. Just because you don't think the statistic doesn't support your idea of religion in Albania and that it isn't neutral, doesn't mean it should be removed. By all means add a source that says that 70% are atheists; I never deleted a single referenced fact you've ever put in. I ask that you do the same. --Local hero 16:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

The most neutral way to do this is to add several statistics supporting several positions on the figures for religious adherence in Albania. So if you have a reference suggesting that 70% are atheist then add it, but don't remove other sourced information that suggests something else because there is no certain statistic regarding this topic. --Local hero 18:42, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

I requested the actual data from the MICS3 study of Albania from 2005 (that seems to be the source of data for the Pew Research Center study). The figures in the study report are per household and are weighted (I'm no statistician and I'm not sure what exactly that means, but I guess it could be that the data are weighted by the count of members for that household). Here are the raw data:

Svick (talk) 21:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

To put an end to this discussion, here you have the data:

Is religion an important part of your daily life?

http://www.gallup.com/poll/128210/Gallup-Global-Reports.aspx (Edvin (talk) 21:20, 5 January 2012 (UTC))

This does not end the discussion. The statistics on Religion in Albania are too varied to call any single source the correct one until a reliable national census occurs. --Local hero 14:52, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

In few months we will have the data from the national census in Albania, which was done during October 2011. I am pretty sure that the percentage of non-religious Albanians would be even greater than what Gallup found (Edvin (talk) 19:00, 6 January 2012 (UTC))

Is Albania muslim,christian or atheist country?

i invite people to write what they think on this matter... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shanticm (talk • contribs) 21:59, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Albania does not have any state religion, Albania is secular. But most of the inhabitants, about 70 - 80 % are/have Muslim origin. --NOAH (talk) 09:01, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

That's correct, however Muslim origin doesn't mean Muslim affiliation. Entered data from Albanian govt, dated 2007.--Sulmues 10:38, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Albania is not a religious country, and in fact it is the 13th least religious country in the world according to the Global Survey conducted by Gallup in 2010. Gallup is sometimes used as the best credible source, due to its professional surveys it conducts. According to this survey, religion plays a role only to 39% of Albanians, and puts Albania in the list of the 14 least religious countries in the world, where Estonia is the first, and Albania the thirteenth least religious country in the world. You can see the data Gallup Global Reports 2010. Just click on religion and go to the bottom of the list of countries. (Edvin (talk) 13:43, 2 January 2012 (UTC))

Protestants

There ought to be a section on Albanian Protestants, considering their importance in the development of the Albanian printing and alphabet and education. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.207.42.7 (talk) 16:51, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

"and hundreds of thousands of former Muslims have converted to Orthodox Christianity, as they have migrated to Greece." - This has no source and from my understanding, is completly untrue. I'm guessing a Christian/Bias propogandist's been editing this article?

Can someone also edit the Religious demography section; this is the recent most reliable demographics -

A recent Pew Research Center demographic study put the percentage of Muslims in Albania at 79.9%.

Source - ^ Miller, Tracy, ed. (October 2009) (PDF), Mapping the Global Muslim Population: A Report on the Size and Distribution of the World’s Muslim Population, Pew Research Center, retrieved 2009-10-08

http://pewforum.org/newassets/images/reports/Muslimpopulation/Muslimpopulation.pdf

Bektashis

I see here that Bektashis are put together with Muslims in this article. While bektashis are related to Islam, in Albania they are mostly considered as a separate religion, and being a Bektashi doesn't automatically mean that you are a Muslim, or vice-versa. It is like Orthodox are considered different from Catholics. (Edvin (talk) 22:58, 2 January 2012 (UTC))

Albanian pagan traditions

It seems that this paragraph on religion in Albania is bothering the user Athenean: "Religion has always been taken easily by Albanians. The actual traditional religions (Christianity and Islam) were religions imported and most of the time imposed by the numerous occupying forces in Albania. Thus, most of the Albanians were never truly religious in the traditional meaning of the word. Even nowadays, among people who claim to follow any of the four major religions in Albania, you can see a mixture of various religious traditions and pagan traditions coming from time before Christianity."

Being an Albanian and growing up and living there, I know better our pagan traditions which we perform every year, than a Greek who seems to not know so much about Albania. I invite other Albanians here in Misplaced Pages to back up my post.

(Edvin (talk) 18:59, 5 January 2012 (UTC))

Your additions are completely unsourced. Sorry, but that's not how do things around here. You can't just add whatever you want because you're from Albania. Everything needs to be sourced, especially claims like these. Athenean (talk) 19:02, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I am putting more sources, it is just that it is harder to find sources on English on this.

(Edvin (talk) 20:13, 5 January 2012 (UTC))

Problem is, none of the sources you have added are reliable. Please see WP:RS for how a reliable source is defined in wikipedia. The sources you have added are self-published websites, where whoever owns the website can write whatever they want. Some with a a clear nationalist agenda (e.g. www.ancientillyrians.com). Also, Edwin Jacques is not a historian and is not considered a reliable source. You need to use books like these , that's what reliable sources are. John Wilkes is a professor of ancient history. Anyway, I left the Gallup poll results in the article, I think that is sufficient. I don't know why you want to keep repeating over and over in the lede how non-religious Albanians are, once is enough. Athenean (talk) 22:22, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

• C-Class Religion articles
• Unknown-importance Religion articles
• WikiProject Religion articles
• C-Class Albania articles
• High-importance Albania articles
• WikiProject Albania articles