Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 14:10, 8 April 2006

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

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Crime

We have to remove the reference to the "radioactive bombs" because its only source, an article in the The Times, has been discredited. It turned out that the reporter always knew the full name of who he was talking to, Dmitry Soin, and that the reporter (a freelancer) made up most of the article. Soin, who is the source of the article, has stated that about the only true item is the fact the fact that he drives a black BMW. The rest is made up. He is on the record, with photos, revealing the facts and fictions of the Times article. It has been impossible to find other sources apart from this single, erroneous Times article. All other research always point back to this article and no independent verification exists. - William Mauco 14:55, 26 March 2006 (UTC) Sources:

• http://www.tiras.ru/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=854
• http://www.russkie.org/index.php?module=fullitem&id=9357

I agree that the Times article is dubious and can be excluded. However, I don't undertand why you removed the paragraph regarding the missiles that disappeared from Transnistria. That story is not connected to the Times article and has been validated by the appearence of some of the missile throughout Ossetia and Chechnya. TSO1D 16:14, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

You are right. We just need to include citations (this can be done in the References section) so that wikipedia doesn't get the reputation of being a purveyor of propaganda for one side or the other. This is extremely important in such a hotly contested topic. -William Mauco 23:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Dmitry Soin teaches at Tiraspol's university. He is also a buddhist. On his homemade Tibet-Transnistria website, he promotes vegetarianism and abstaining from alcohol. -William Mauco 23:31, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Of course, everyone know that The Times is just a propaganda rag sheet which publishes everything. Random sites in Russian are soooo much more reliable and trustworthy. bogdan 22:12, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

LOL, Bogdan I had the same immediate thought when I saw the changes. Nevertheless, I did some research and found that independent and credible sources confirm the fact that the Times story has some dubious aspects. TSO1D 03:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Moldova's prime minister keeps calling Transnistria a weapons exporter, among other things recycling the claim that Transnistria supplies or supplied Chechnya. His claims were immediately refuted by those in the know; the official participants in the fighting in Chechnya: No arms from Transnistria or from the former Soviet stockpile have been found anywhere in Chechnya, ever. An official spokesperson in Chechnya called the Moldovan statements politically motivated. - Mauco 12:22, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Source: http://www.tiras.ru/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=135

Crime: Missing missile launchers

Please help find sources for our claim that 70 surface-to-air missile launchers disappeared and our implication that they were sold. That these same launchers later appeared in Ossetia or Chechnya sounds like kompromat. Let's remove this information and add it back in when/if we obtain reliable citations. - William Mauco 22:07, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Here is an article from the washington post: http://www.washingtontimes.com/world/20040118-103519-5374r.htm TSO1D 03:56, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! However, it doesn't quite convince on the missile point. But we can use it as a reference and those who want to dig further can then determine for themselves to what extent they believe the writer's claims. I think it works - 85.214.29.234 15:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but I politely disagree. For Misplaced Pages to be credible we need better references than Oazu Nantoi's say-so to The Washington Times. Nantoi is a Romanophile warmonger whose brief career as an advisor to Moldova's president ended because he was too radical. He has an axe to grind. These days, he makes a living as a "talking head" from a private Chisinau-based NGO (called IPP) stirring up hatred against Transnistria by consistently shooting down every settlement proposal from OSCE, from Ukraine, and everywhere else.
The Washington Times is only slightly more credible. Founded as the propaganda arm for fanatic cult leader Sun Myung Moon, it is a documented purveyor of planted misinformation. David Brock, author of Blinded by the Right, writes about his work for The Washington Times and how he "made up stories ... that could never be corroborated." This former employee is on the record for calling the Washington Times' journalistic ethics "close to nil". And from Misplaced Pages: Salon.com (, ) and The Daily Howler (examples: , , , ) have published scathing analyses of what they say are serious factual errors and examples of bias in the paper's news coverage.
The article we reference is classic smear: Almost every "fact" comes from unnamed sources speaking "on the condition of anonymity". Researching these claims just leads to more unnamed sources and sometimes to claims which official Moldova then refuses to back up, document, comment on, or share with journalists. Serious neutral research actually reveals the exact opposite. For instance, Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty quotes western diplomats who call reports of massive arms and drug smuggling "wildly exaggerated." http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2005/10/05f3742a-1c2d-4e1a-a57f-0e9780549795.html - William Mauco 16:15, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Although you might disagree with the newspaper's stance on various issues, you cannot simply deny the validity of the missile article based on this. The author, George Jahn is accredited by the Associated Press. The information is also backed by other sources, I remember multiple credible sites acknowledging this, however I have not found those sources yet. In any case, you cannot remove the infomration simply because you don't like it. As for Nantoi, he is a respected analyst, and whatever disagreements you may have with his statements, your descpription of him is greatly exaggerated. TSO1D 18:16, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Nantoi certainly has his fan club and I am obviously not part of it. I see his public statements as clearly biased and as rarely matching the available evidence. For non-English (internal and Romanian consumption) he is even more rabid. Ask OSCE officials what they think of his "contribution" to the Transnistrian settlement process. - William Mauco 19:55, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Here, I found another link detaling the incident, this time from NATO report: << The Ukraine manifests a more and more open interest for the North regions of Transnistria, which have a prevalent Ukrainian population. In an unexplained way there have been registered cases of shipping through the frontier and territory of the Ukraine armament produced in Transnistria and which has been sold in other conflict regions (for instance Grad type rocket launchers Abkhazia). In 1999 the mediators from the Ukraine proposed a bill that was going to be approved by Kishinau and Tiraspol. >> http://www.nato.int/acad/fellow/99-01/mardarovici.pdf

I am glad to see that we can find more references, but this one is hardly a better one. Ion Mardarovici's report from Chisinau, Moldova makes allegations to weapons which were apparently produced in Transnistria, and not to the 70 missing missile launchers from an old Soviet stockpile which is the uncited claim that we are dealing with here. His claim of "registered cases" is not footnoted or referenced, nor are we told who registered these cases, when or where. Instead, half of the report consists of interviews with school children and pro-Moldovan nationalists while the Transnistrian POV is not given equal treatment. At least The Washington Times article was more objective because it included the true statement that officials in Transnistria denied the allegations. So to safeguard the quality standards of the encyclopedia, let's keep looking for more facts on which to base our claims, please. - William Mauco 19:31, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I have re-writted parts of the Crime section, removing statements that I could not back by credible sources and providing sources for the existing information. TSO1D 19:23, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

It is much better now. But if we include information that we can not fully source, then we need to at least preface it with the fact that these are the claims of analysts and that Transnistria maintains a consistent denial of such claims. - William Mauco 19:31, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Earlier today, someone else rewrote the paragraph as follows:
"According to a former Moldovan official, a cache of 70 surface-to-air missile launchers disappeared from a former Soviet stockpile some years ago. Moldova's government declined comment. Officials in Transnistria denied the allegations."
That sums up the position of all sides: Nantoi, Moldova's government and Transnistria's government. It also matches the content of the reference from Washington Times, which is full of "anonymous sources" but which at least also allows Transnistria to state their side. It is a more accurate representation of the position of the involved parties than the current sentence: "Recently, a cache of surface-to-air missile launchers as well as other weapons disappeared from a former Soviet stockpile and officials are unable to account for their whereabouts."
- William Mauco 19:52, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Gas debts

It is misleading to state that Transnistria gets free gas from Russia while Moldova had to pay for it. The truth is that they both get gas on credit: Both Transnistria and Moldova are still supplied (neither country is currently cut off from Russian supplies) and both countries maintain a debt. Moreover, the paragraph previously recycled deliberately wrong facts circulated by Vladimir Socor and claimed that Transnistria's debt to Russian company Gazprom was "more than $1 billion" when it is in fact only half that. - William Mauco 14:33, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Sources: Official Gazprom press conferences, http://www.regnum.ru/english/615852.html

Discuss changes before making them

William Mauco, please motivate the removal of each paragraph.

For example, why did you removed this:

Since partition, Transnistria has served as a haven for smugglers and traffickers in fuels, arms, and other contraband, as well as trafficking in human beings. A recent report funded by the British Department for International Development named Transnistria "a smuggling company masquerading as a state".

It has (had?) a BBC reference. bogdan 18:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Bogdan - I am not sure that this was done by me. I also don't remember seeing a reference to the claim. But I agree with you that anyone who edits should use the Talk pages to explain their reasons and why he or she thinks that their edits are making the article better. That's what the disclaimer on the top of this page says: ...discuss substantial changes here before making them. - William Mauco 19:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Census ethnonyms

If both names, Moldovan and Romanian, are to be used it makes sense to keep them together. The census only had one choice for this ethnic group from what I gather, therefore they should be kept under one category. Saying Moldovan and Romanian implies that both were distinct choices that were presented to the populace and that they were combined in this presentation. I don't believe that is accurate, otherwise the "Romanians" would have been listed under other. The category should read Moldovan/Romanian. TSO1D 22:41, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I am trying to get confirmation on this for you. I seem to recall that the form did distinguish between Moldavian (Moldovan) and Romanian. I know for a fact that it had fields for jews, Bulgarians, Gagauz, Poles, Tatars, etc. - William Mauco 00:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, let's keep in mind that for many readers even the initial casing of the word means something. For instance, when I hear about "Romanians" I normally think of this a specific nationality (citizen of Romania) whereas "romanians" is a more generic terms; an ethnic group. Likewise: Moldovans (citizens of the Republic of Moldova) and moldavians (ethnic group). - William Mauco 00:22, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

If the form did in fact distinguish between Moldovan and Romanian, then the category Moldovan should not have Romanian next to it in any form as the Romanian data would be included in the "others" category. As for the case of the word, in the English language all proper nouns are capitalized regardless of their meaning. TSO1D 00:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree: "Romanian", in this context, would rank alongside Gagauz, Poles, etc. Please note that I don't yet have the form for you, though. - William Mauco 02:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

new english version of name

I see that the official website of the President now uses the name Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic on its English language page , rather than Trans-. Presumably this is the preferred official English version so I have added this and created a redirection page. If anyone knows when this usage began in official literature, please add the date. Jameswilson 03:13, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the name of the country should remain Transnistrian Moldovan Republic. I believe this is the preferred English variant. Others variations such as the "Moldovan Republic of Transnistria", the "Trans-Dniester Moldovan Republic", or "Pridnestrovian Moldovan Repulbic" are used by less official sources. Only the Presidential site of the TRM uses the Pridnestrovian... version which simply is an incomplete translation from Russian. TSO1D 03:23, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Why did you revert? Is the "official" name now PMR or not? Jameswilson 03:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

We crossed - What about other official sites? Have they changed. BTW why does the President prefer Moldavian not Moldovan? Jameswilson 03:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I have seen various contradictory versions on the TMR's official sites, however most are in Russian anyway so it is not possible to implement that information. As for the Moldavian question, he prefers using this as the term stemms directly from Russian (at least during Soviet times), which is not the currently internationally accepted version of the term. TSO1D 03:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, we'd better wait until they settle on one version then. I think de facto in the UK press, Moldavia(n} is used for Iaşi, etc and Moldova{n} for Chişinau, etc. The first time I saw the word Moldova in English was for a football match v England in the mid-90s. I think up till then both were called Moldavia here. But the distinction seems to have stuck. Jameswilson 03:41, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

It is moving in the direction of PMR in preference of all other names, but it is too early to call so we should not adopt the change yet in my opinion. Officially, as per the authorized English translation of the Constitution, the name is "Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic". This is also the name used in rulings of parliament (the Supreme Soviet). The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is mixed: Officially they use "Pridnestrovskaia Moldavskaia Respublica", in Russian transliteration, and sometimes unofficially they use "Transdniestria". What is clear is that few official organs hardly ever use the word "Transnistria". It is considered Romanian. As long as there is still a conflict still going on they feel that to adopt the word of the "other side" is a sign a giving in. Likewise, the "other side" never calls Transnistria by the official name of its constitution. They either say Transnistria, or, very often, just "the left bank of the Dniester".
Apart from the constitution, another authorative source is the country's official "Atlas". It has this to say: In foreign sources, the name Transnistria is applied, meaning the region located across the Nistru River, which is not really used in the region itself. The official name of the region adopted by the regional state authorities is Pridnestrovskaia Moldavskaia Respublika or, in short, Pridnestrovie. Source: http://tdsu.idknet.com/region/english/ - William Mauco 12:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Update to the above: It's official. The longform name is Pridnestrovskaia Moldavskaia Respublica and the official shortform name is Pridnestrovie. See О ТPАНСЛИТЕPАЦИИ И ТОПОНИМИКЕ НАИМЕНОВАНИЙ available on both pridnestrovie.net and zakon-pmr - Mauco 20:12, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Moldovands and Romanians in Censuses

In Soviet census they were counted separately. CIA in their factbook denying existence of "moldovans" listed them all as "romanians", hence this 40% copied everywhere in internet. For Transnistrian census you see yourself at the picture the number is for Moldovans. Where are romanians I don't know. You find it out then correct the text. No guesses, please and no childish revert wars. I explained my changes in edit summaries. `'mikka (t) 17:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

well... A part of the people who are officially Moldovans identify themselves as Romanians. bogdan 17:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

I could not find any convincing evidence regarding the methods used in the 1989 census. Assuming that Moldovans and Romanians were counted separately, logically the Romanians would have been classified under "others" not joined with the Moldovan category. However I am not sure of this. Nevertheless, if that were the case, then the category would read just Moldovans anyway, it would not mention Romanians in any form. Do you believe that the CIA factbook joined the Moldovan and Romanian categories and wrote that as Moldovan/Romanian? If that is how they did it and we are using their results it only makes sense to use the same categories. Of course if we would have the actual data from the census (which I am looking for across the web) then we could re-arrange the data as we would like. But I could not find any orginal sources, and virtually all presentations that I have found list the majority ethnic group as Moldovan/Romanian or simply ethnic Romanian. Nevertheless, as we are not fully aquainted with their methodology but are using their sources it is logical to render the data as it was found on that source.

In the Transnistrian census, it makes sense to only leave the Moldovan variant as we have direct access to the (preliminary?) results and that was the given category.

TSO1D 17:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Here's a source on this census:

John Mackinlay, Peter Cross (editors) Regional Peacekeepers, United Nations University Press. ISBN 9280810790.

bogdan 17:53, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, this is interesting and could be added to the article:

same source.

bogdan 17:56, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Once again, : in 1989 USSR Census Moldovans and Romanians were separate officially recognized nationalities. The whole current fuss with Moldovan language is based on this. I am totally surprized you are questioning this. CIA dismissed the notion of "Moldovans" for obvious political POV. Again, I am surprized that you don't know about this anti-Sovietism of CIA.

For Transnistria, you have a picture in the article. Unless you have information that says something different, the text and the picture must match. If you will find an additional info in reputable sources, you are welcome to make changes. `'mikka (t) 18:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

As for "part of the people who are officially Moldovans identify themselves as Romanians", you are welcome to add a comment after the numbers. I am sure you can find plenty of reputable referencess to support this clarification. `'mikka (t) 18:28, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Mikka I don't understand how the "Moldovan language" fuss is related to the 1989 census. Please enlighten me. As regards the separate categories, if that would have been the case then why are Romanians listed under the same category as Moldovans on this page. What I mean is the data was collected by the Soviet government, not the CIA, thus if we were to look at the original source we would expect to find the majority of the population under Moldovan. My question is was the original number for Moldovans 40? In that case we can assume that the number of Romanians was negligibly small and thus only leave the name Moldovan. Or, on the other hand, did the CIA combine data for Moldovans and Romanianas (which would probably have been under one percent) in order to come up with the 40%? TSO1D 19:11, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

The "language fuss" is related to separate nationalities issue. Since CIA boldly called them "Romanians", it is only logical to assume that the combined "real" romanians and moldovans into one number. 1989 Soviet data may be purchased online on CD for $300 or looked up in Russian/Moldovan central libraries for free. The number "40" is rounded and I've seen slightly different numbers as well. The number of "Romanians" in the whole Moldova was reported 2.1% in 1989. It is very reasonable to assume that in the area of Transnistria the fraction was under 1%, and the number "40%" is as good as any other at the moment when we don't have exact official data. `'mikka (t) 19:43, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

In that case shouldn't the category better read just "Moldovans" and not mention Romanians at all? TSO1D 19:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

You'll become a mortal enemy for Romanian wikipedians, just like me. On a serious note, you obviosly don't understand how things worked in the Soviet Union. You did not "own" your ethnicity. Your nationality was written in your passport in the infamous "Fifth Record" ("pyataya grafa"; post-Soviet Jews remember this quite well), and saying otherwise was criminal offense: "forging of official data". Of course, 1989 was not 1970, but still people had habits of being cautious. `'mikka (t) 19:59, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

"result of the centrally promoted immigration of skilled labour"

Now that we are here, allow me some more Sovietic rant. Today this immigration is protrayed as a vicious Russification of poor oppressed Baltic States, Ukrainians, Moldovans, etc.. In fact, it was a policy of industrialization of backwards rural periphery in a brainless bureaucratic way. Different places differ, let me tell you about Moldova. A famous winery for the whole Soviet Union. Endless vineyards. Despite total collectivization, people have private vineyards, also steal a little from kolkhoz/sovkhoz and have a great time. Now, a plant is being built. Can you find an idiot who would want to sweat in a greasy noisy place instead of tending sunny Feteasca? Of course, Soviets had to transfer workforce from Russia. `'mikka (t) 20:15, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Cool, Mikka found the Promised Land. It's Moldova. You should found a sect and earn some good money. And promote tourism to Moldova, too. :) Dpotop 21:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, it is not Moldova. It was Moldavian SSR, and only in eyes of Soviet people. Just like it was Georgian SSR, where 7 orange trees and 3 lemon trees and a patch of roses would make a person rich (by Soviet standards). Instead of poking fun at me, you'd better try and understand what I was saying. But you probably already know what you need to know about all past, present and future. Good luck. `'mikka (t) 21:38, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

As for promoting tourism in Moldova, do you happen to know that in Soviet times virtually all excellent sorts of grape were intentionally destroyed in the fight against alcoholism? I don't know hoiw the recovery goes, but what Moldovan wine I see imported into the USA today is all "ink", as we called it in Soviet times, despite all these old famous names. So I guess Moldova is not Napa Valley now. `'mikka (t) 21:46, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, your "innocent" arguments look very much like the racist arguments on Black Africa: "It's so hot there, that they need nothing, just pick some bananas and eat them. Europeans are needed to do the real work." This is why Soviet propaganda was so vicious, because it made decent individuals like you (and others) believe such nonsense. And this is why we have had those arguments in the past. Dpotop 12:33, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Colleague, each racist propaganda has a grain of truth. If you don't want a cell phone and a TV set, you can right-oh pick a banana and be happy. And surprisingly many people don't see anything bad in banana happiness. That is why Amercian propaganda is so vicious: you say "Soviet" and everything is propaganda and bullshit. The truth is that in different places land has different level of productivity. The Soviet problem was that people were not allowed to live off land, and on the other hand the Soviet state wasted the resource terribly. I completely fail to see what propaganda is in this. `'mikka (t) 18:46, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Moldovans are romanians and you don't have any evidence to prove that is not like that. The rest of your arguments are just cheap sovietic political arguments that may be well considered as anti-romanian remarks.--125.248.157.82 11:55, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Flag

From what I understand Mikka is right. The official flag (flown on state buildings) must include the hammer and sickle. However, by the Article 4 of Law on symbolism, the hammer and sickle can be ommited for most cases (except for state institutions). This is from http://fotw.vexillum.com/flags/md-dnies.html and http://pridnestrovie.net/. TSO1D 15:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. De jure, I am looking into this here: http://zakon-pmr.com/index.php?adv - De facto, all PMR flags are now clean tri-bands with no hammer and sickle. This is even true in official use, as far as I know. So if the Transnistrians themselves have abandoned their hammer and sickle, I don't see why Misplaced Pages should reflect anything else than the reality ... even if their laws may yet have caught it with that. I know that this approach is more pragmatic than Sovietic. But let us discuss this some more, and if we want to get an inside view then someone (Mikka? TSO1D?) could also open a thread on http://forum.tiraspol.net asking about this issue. - Mauco 17:56, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

I believe this is the most recent law relevant to the subject:

О ГОСУДАРСТВЕННОЙ СИМВОЛИКЕ ПРИДНЕСТРОВСКОЙ МОЛДАВСКОЙ РЕСПУБЛИКИ (ТЕКУЩАЯ РЕДАКЦИЯ ПО СОСТОЯНИЮ НА 16 МАРТА 2005 ГОДА)

Статья 3

Государственный флаг Приднестровской Молдавской Республики представляет собой прямоугольное полотнище двухсторонне красного цвета. Посередине полотнища каждой стороны во всю его длину располагается полоса зеленого цвета. В левом углу верхней части полосы красного цвета располагается основной элемент герба Приднестровской Молдавской Республики - серп и молот золотистого цвета с красной пятиконечной звездой, обрамленной каймой золотистого цвета.

http://zakon-pmr.com/doc.php?docid=23848538&queryid=28896451 As you can see the hammer and sickle are listed as required elements of the official flag. TSO1D 18:12, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Did you happen to notice the existence of the Flag of Transnistria article? `'mikka (t) 18:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

LOl, actually I had not seen that page before. Well, I guess this discussion did not bring out any new information, but at least I believe the issue is settled. TSO1D 18:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

What is still puzzling is that, with the 2000 law, why does government itself not even adhere to it? Look at photos from president-pmr.org, mfa-pmr.org, and any of the news services covering official events and national holidays of Transnistria: Sep 2, Feb 23, etc. All the flags are without star and without hammer and sickle. - Mauco 05:02, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Moldovans = Romanians

Can one explain me how come that Moldovans are not Romanians? It looks like a russian POV in the article. --220.65.247.178 06:50, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Salut bonaparte! :) - FrancisTyers 08:15, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

The factory in Rîbniţa

I was going through the article and this sentence caught my eye: "One is a munitions factory in Tighina (Bender) while another important steel factory exists in Rîbniţa (Rybnitsa). The factory in Rîbniţa brings about 50% of the republic's revenue and is the main provider of jobs in that city." It seems strange that one factory would account for 50% of the region's revenue. Can anyone provide a source that can back that statement? Otherwise, it might be best to simply remove it. TSO1D 15:00, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I wasn't the original author of this statement, and I agree with you that it sounds strange. I have no objection to removing it. But the statement may not necessarily be wrong. The factory is MMZ, on which more can be seen here and here. It is indeed that city's largest employer. When measured in sales, its $500+ million also makes it #1 in Transnistria. If the Transnistria GDP is only twice that, the 50% statement could be true unless we are comparing apples with oranges. -Mauco 19:55, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

External links

A new user, jonathanpops, added this comment to on April 5 which I just stumbled upon by accident today, so I am moving it here:

Regarding the content of transdniestria.com, having watched it now for quite a while I see you're right it is mostly news from 3rd parties, but there are people's opinions that are original, and a few articles here and there there can't be found anywhere else. It's a pity this whole page on wikipedia has had to be locked down because of abuse, I have to say though that I think it's very wrong that visitors to this page aren't allowed to be given the opportunity to see transdniestria.com and make up their own minds and add their own opinions. The site is there and there's no point not linking to it. I know there's no point in adding it now because someone who thinks they know better than me will just remove it again, it is a shame though. (end, jonathanpops)

To Jonathanpops: First of all, please discuss here and not in archives. Second, article is now unprotected so you can edit again. Third, as you may have read, I happen to agree with you that this particular link is appropriate and that the content reflects all points of view. Be bold, add the link if you want. Don't become a discouraged ex-Wikipedian. If others disagree, we discuss (here, not in archives). - Mauco 05:00, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

In reply to William Mauco: Sorry I only put my last comment there because that's where the original discussion was moved to, my original comment was somewhere else and got moved. I didn't see that you had this bit down here, or just didn't realize that's how it worked. I don't think I've seen an article with as many edits as this one, not additions but people removing other people's work and other people re-adding it, or another version of it. It's kind of interesting but very confusing at the same time. I guess with me and this topic it's kind of a case of me being the new guy, like you say, and feeling that I don't have the same say as some of the others. For instance in this case where I added an external link that I thought would be useful to people interested in the topic and Mikkalai instantly deleting it with some derisive remark about Misplaced Pages being no place for blogs. I just assumed that Mikkalai is someone respected, he certainly has done a lot of edits here, and that adding the link again would get on someone's nerves and it would be simply deleted again. Anyway, that's why I voiced my opinion that it's a shame rather than just adding the link again - though it seems I did it in the wrong place. - jonathanpops

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