Talk:Jim Hawkins (radio presenter): Difference between revisions

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	So why can we not put the well-referenced, self-declared birth-date of this public figure, in the article about him? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 15:17, 2 March 2012 (UTC)		So why can we not put the well-referenced (see archives), self-declared birth-date of this public figure, in the article about him? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); ]; ]</span> 15:17, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

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Birthday

Hawkins again spent part of 1 March thanking fans on Twitter, for greetings on his birthday that day. These:

are just a few of dozens of examples; the latter is a message from his professional peers at Shropshire Live, using their official Twitter account.

Hawkins also retweeted foreign-language birthday greetings addressed to him (that's one of several examples), appealed for more followers as a birthday present and posted a picture of his birthday cake, which can be seen here: yfrog.com/hs1n4rmj complete with candles.

Can we now drop the pretence that his birthday isn't known publicly, known at his instigation and discussed by him? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 19:29, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

WP:DOB: "Misplaced Pages includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object. If the subject complains about the inclusion of the date of birth, or the person is borderline notable, err on the side of caution and simply list the year." Drop it Andy. Fences&Windows 02:13, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Which part of that self-contradictory prose do you think precludes publication of Hawkins' widely-self-publicised DoB? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 20:48, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

What is your problem, mate? Give it up, get a life, find something useful to do. Thanks to whoever Fences And Windows is, for pointing out that the subject objects. The subject objects to having anything about him published on Wales's Folly, for that matter. *starts stopwatch to see how long it takes Mabbett to delete this comment, like all the others he's deleted as being inconvenient to his odd little agenda* —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.185.240.120 (talk) 11:20, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

"The subject" objecting to this article's existence is neither here nor there. Whether he likes it or not, he is sufficiently notable to have an article on Misplaced Pages. The article is subject to certain policies, such as the policy on biographies of living people. Our duty on Misplaced Pages is to ensure that all info is accurate, and if any information is included that portrays the subject of the article in a negative light, it is sourced correctly and backed up by reliable sources. Mjroots (talk) 20:22, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

But the information in this article is not accurate. Who says so? The subject does. Who's in a better position to know than the subject? Er ... nobody. So if the most reliable source possible tells you the information is inaccurate, isn't it your 'duty' (sic) (LOL) to remove it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.8.182 (talk) 05:13, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

But if the subject is either lying about his birthday being March 1st to listeners and twitter followers, or lying to Misplaced Pages that its not this date (he cant have it both ways) then surely he CANT be the most reliable source? Simmason (talk) 21:44, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Who said it's about my birthday? I mean, I know Mabbutt is strangely obsessed with my birthday (is that you again, Andy?) but I've never said it's about my birthday. Please pay attention (up to the point where -deficit kicks in, of course). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.105.252 (talk) 14:17, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Incidentally, today I asked Mabbett when his birthday is. I'll let you know if he replies to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.76.51 (talk) 21:45, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Here's a better idea. Let's altogether drop this odd obsession with the man's birthday and find something better to edit. Jonathunder (talk) 22:01, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Thank you! Here's an *even* better idea: the page about me is wrong. So take it down. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.185.144.123 (talk • contribs)

Unclear whether the above commenter (assuming this is subject? though no signature or autosignature by sinebot) means that having a page about 'me' is wrong or if there are actual details wrong, other than the contentious date of birth. If there are things wrong you need only to tell those still with access to edit the page to get them corrected. The aim of all those dedicated to Misplaced Pages is to have correct and sourced information on subjects. Simmason (talk) 20:50, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Why the hell should I do that? You people have published something that's wrong. It's not my job to tell you *how* it's wrong, but no-one is better placed than I to tell you that it *is* wrong. So, take it down. After all, you want 'correct ... information on all subjects' ...

Oh, and anyone 'dedicated to Misplaced Pages' *really* needs a life. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.105.211 (talk) 19:37, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

It's JH all right. He does not want to have an article on Misplaced Pages. It has already been explained to him several times that the article is staying. All we need to do is ensure that WP:BLP is met. Mjroots (talk) 17:40, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

No, it hasn't. All you people are capable of saying is "that's not how Misplaced Pages works", over and over again. That's not an explanation, that's stonewalling. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.105.211 (talk) 19:41, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I think you must be reading some other website. Twice now this page has been examined to see if it should be taken down and there is plenty of evidence to explain why the article is staying. Even a child could understand the evidence. Not once have I seen "that's not how Misplaced Pages works" as an explanation. Simmason (talk) 19:30, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Celebrity/Notability Threshold

At what point does a person fall beneath the notability threshold, or if one has been above it, thus proven by two appeals for deletion being overturned, does one never fall beneath it? My point being that observing the news about BBC Local Radio, the prospects of Beacon taking over at Radio Shropshire, if this happens, and Hawkins clear attempts with his endeavours outside radio eg. the constant pushing on his twitter account of his portrait photography services, the recent adoption of his LinkedIn page instead of his previous BBC Shropshire biog page as his website link and diversification into motivational speaker and meeting chairperson, Hawkin is clearly making his exit strategy so he can jump before being pushed, or in case of the push coming sooner than expected. Is there a point when all the fighting about whether to keep or delete, whether facts are correct or incorrect become insignificant because the subject himself leaves the public stage? Simmason (talk) 22:05, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Spectacularly ignorant, even for a Misplaced Pages user. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.105.252 (talk) 14:15, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Ooh, I'm noticing a pattern. If I dare to be critical of Wales's Folly (as I did three days ago, just for chuckles) someone who can't remember their real name posts something stupid on here. Well, that's hugely satisfying. Chill out, people. Have some beer. Or kittens. Not real ones, obviously, because that would be too much to cope with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.105.252 (talk) 14:23, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

To answer Simmason's question, once notable ==> always notable. In JH's case, notability was established by becoming a presenter on BBC Radio 4 and winning the Sony Silver Award in 2002. JH does not get to control whether or not there is an article on him, the wider Misplaced Pages community decides this. Mjroots (talk) 04:39, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your sensible answer to a sensible question Mjroots. There is no room on Misplaced Pages for ignorant and anonymous slanging as above from isp 86.164.105.252. Especially as my head isnt smaller than my neck despite listening to many quality radio stations including TalkSport. My query was a valid one especially in the light of tweets by @jimallthetime like todays: ref:

I enjoy my jobs ... all of them! :-) Could I work for you? http://www.linkedin.com/pub/jim-hawkins/19/335/34a

ref. for tweet: http://twitter.com/#!/jimallthetime/status/93306354697125888 Simmason (talk) 16:34, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Ah, bless. 'The wider Misplaced Pages community'. A bunch of people who write an encyclopaedia that you can't rely on. Yeah, that's the sort of people you want to trust with decision-making, isn't it? (And yes, Simmason, your comment was - OK, if 'ignorant' is too harsh a word, then 'dazzlingly misinformed to a quite remarkable degree'.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.180.76.51 (talk • contribs)

Unclear why my comment was 'dazzingling misinformed to a quite remarkable degree' as it wasn't a comment but a question based on the evidence as presented. The Misplaced Pages community is known for its working together to provide the best possible resource. It is this working together that will result in an encyclopaedia that can be relied upon. Perhaps if people joined in and helped instead of bandying about insults we could achieve this aim quicker. Simmason (talk) 20:56, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

But the fundamental idea of Wales's Folly means it can *never* be relied upon. It can never be regarded as reliable. Why would anyone want to join in with something so fundamentally witless? Maybe you can explain ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.105.211 (talk) 19:39, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm at a loss that you can attempt to argue this. How can anything on the internet be fully relied upon? How can 'facts' in history books be relied upon? History books and therefore printed encyclopedia are well known for bias and selection of 'facts'. The beauty of Misplaced Pages is that you have a dedicated legion of editors and researchers who want to put together the best possible sourced information on subjects available. People spending day in day out sourcing information and if it's not sourced then it doesn't stay. Everything on your Misplaced Pages page has been sourced. Now undoubtably you may have provided interviewers and employers with inaccurate information in the first place but everything here has been checked and people are trying to make this the best resource possible. At least we're not the types to warrant petty wars on trying to make the internet and knowledge a better place like your frequently deleted tirades and bullying against people who enjoy and respect Misplaced Pages for what it is eg.

@jimallthetime: "There's nothing wrong with Misplaced Pages ... that couldn't be fixed by lacing all single-serving frozen pizzas with Ritalin"

@jimallthetime to @BarkingBirdy @MarDixon @Wood5y "It's your responsibility to make sure what you publish is correct. I'm telling you it isn't. So delete it! Oh we're deep into 'that's not how Misplaced Pages works' territory! Where'd the other guy go, btw"

@jimallthetime to @BarkingBirdy @MarDixon @Wood5y "Like I said, Wikipedians are fundamentalists. Can't understand any other way of doing things"

@jimallthetime to @BarkingBirdy @MarDixon @Wood5y @MikeEllis "And these facts are none of your damn business"

I have pages and pages of screen caps of these tirades, including picking of disability activists who dare to question BBC policy. I'm assuming the subject was made to remove them by his employer as they look very bad indeed for the BBC but whether this is the case, everything carries on existing on the internet, even when you delete weeks and weeks of tweets from Twitter.Simmason (talk) 17:56, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

No, the fundamental weakness of Misplaced Pages is that it cannot be relied upon. You *know* it's true, so stop trying to defend the indefensible. And if you're not the type to pursue petty wars, can you have a word with Mabbutt about his obsession with my birthday? Also, 'people spending day in day out sourcing information' ... why?

I think you'll find that's not bullying, that's fair comment. Nor did I 'pick of' (whatever that means) anyone, I called someone on something they claimed that wasn't true. Incidentally, I've not deleted any of the stuff you quote - although I'm genuinely puzzled as to why you've saved the tweets; if it's because you enjoy my writing style, then I accept the compliment (lots of people did find the pizzas/Ritalin gag quite amusing) - let alone 'weeks and weeks of tweets'.

And at least you know who I am. Apparently, 'Simmason' doesn't exist. There's openness and transparency for you.

I think what this shows is that - ahem - 'Wikipedians' are fundamentalists who can't understand any other way of doing things.

Oh, one last thing: as the quotes you've posted above are genuinely from me, how come they've not appeared in my Misplaced Pages entry? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.150.129.186 (talk) 13:19, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I am genuinely amused that you dare to say I don't exist but don't have the decency to sign your discussion items on this page with your name. Who am I then typing this right now? A unicorn? An elf? Some other mythical creature? Of course I exist. I'm not sure you actually understand the concept of existence. I am also not a fundamentalist but a libertarian, not that that is any of your business but I'm not so uptight that it's a secret neither. The quotes I posted above are important information for future decisions that Misplaced Pages make on your page but they're not necessary information for anyone researching you and wanting to know facts about your background so are not on your Misplaced Pages entry.Simmason (talk) 19:39, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

For the third time: my guess would be 'an elf'. Who cares what decisions Misplaced Pages makes? And: you probably want to change 'neither' to 'either' in that par., to avoid looking like a simpleton (for too much longer). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.121.7 (talk) 15:12, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

New website

Hawkins has now go his own website http://www.jimhawkins.co.uk which probably should be linked to rather than his Twitter page.

Whether the website provides any further facts that can be used for his entry or to verify facts we already have is less clear. The homepage has a list of 'facts' people don't know about him e.g.:

Whether all these people are meant to mean something to the average Joe on the street I'm unclear. I've tried seeing if any of these claims can be backed up bearing in the debacle with him telling his audience his birthdate but then denying it here but I cannot find any hard evidence.

The same goes for information on the testimonial pages about him. As he hasnt provided any names of the alleged happy customers I'm not clear if it provides any justifiable facts we can add.Simmason (talk) 20:55, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks; I've added links in the relevant places. You're right, there's nothing of any use to us in the stuff you cite. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 12:29, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Copyright

If you are the copyright holder, go to Misplaced Pages:Request for immediate removal of copyright violation; otherwise, go to Misplaced Pages:Copyright_problems and report the instance in question. Unfortunately if you refuse to sign in properly 86.135.121.7 we have no idea if you are the copyright holder if there is an issue. Simmason (talk) 00:44, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Why the hell should I sign in to Wales's Folly?! Just because you people have nothing else to do with your life, doesn't mean I haven't. Oh, wait, I know - all together now: "that's not how Misplaced Pages works" ......... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.63.211 (talk) 16:34, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

50th Birthday

Hawkins again spent part of 1 March thanking fans on Twitter, for greetings on his birthday that day; his 50th. For example:

So why can we not put the well-referenced (see archives), self-declared birth-date of this public figure, in the article about him? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:17, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

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