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Revision as of 18:39, 13 March 2012

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Requested move 1

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus to move. If renominated, proposals should follow Misplaced Pages:Naming conventions (baseball players) guidelines. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:54, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

• Ramón Ramírez (pitcher, born 1981) → Ramón Ramírez (relief pitcher)
• Ramón Ramírez (pitcher, born 1982) → Ramón Ramírez (starter/reliever)
• Ramón Ramírez (pitcher, born 1977) → Ramón Ramírez (Panamanian pitcher)

– The birth years of these three pitchers are all in a five-year span, so unless someone knows the exact DOB of the pitcher they want to look up, these titles are not very helpful. I think that the new titles will better describe each pitcher: the Ramírez born in 1981 has been a relief pitcher for his entire major league career (and will almost certainly never become a starter), the Ramírez born in 1982 has been a starter and a reliever in his short major league career, and the Ramírez born in 1977 is only notable because he pitched for Panama in the World Baseball Classic. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 12:41, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

If we are to move them are the proposed titles for the first two articles really the best solution? All three players are of different nationalities - so could we not take the lead from your third example and move the others to Ramón Ramírez (Dominican pitcher) and Ramón Ramírez (Venezuelan pitcher)? That seems to be the more usual way of disambiguating in situations like this. AJSham 12:24, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Oppose Using nationality for one and not the others isn't uniform. Even using nationalities for all three though doesn't reduce confusion for me, because I don't know whose nationality is whose (except from the comment above about the 1977 born one being from Panama). – Muboshgu (talk) 15:44, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

If uniformity is a problem, perhaps instead of retitling the third one to Ramon Ramirez (Panamanian pitcher), we could retitle it to Ramon Ramirez (World Baseball Classic pitcher) instead, since that is the only notable thing he has ever done. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 18:19, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Maybe, I dunno. I should clarify my opposition as one of ambivalence. I agree with you that it's impossible to tell from the current titles of these three pages which one leads to whom. I support moving them, but I'm not sure what the best way to rename them is, though. Maybe all by nationality would be an improvement. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:34, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

Oppose/comment: I think for consistency reasons, it would be better with nationality for all three. Nationality has a higher probability of recognition, at least when they are so close in age. Also, nationality does not change (very often), but roles, such as being a relief pitcher or a starting pitcher, could change over night, eg. as the result of an injury. HandsomeFella (talk) 21:39, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

I guess nationality is fine. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 22:54, 6 March 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It may not hurt to propose a move again, this time specifying the move to be uniform by nationality. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:25, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Move request 2

The request to rename this article to Ramón Ramírez (Dominican pitcher) has been carried out. If the page title has consensus, be sure to close this discussion using {{subst:RM top|'''page moved'''.}} and {{subst:RM bottom}} and remove the {{Requested move/dated|…}} tag, or replace it with the {{subst:Requested move/end|…}} tag.

• Ramón Ramírez (pitcher, born 1981) → Ramón Ramírez (Dominican pitcher)
• Ramón Ramírez (pitcher, born 1982) → Ramón Ramírez (Venezuelan pitcher)
• Ramón Ramírez (pitcher, born 1977) → Ramón Ramírez (Panamanian pitcher)

– Per the discussion above. Actually, I think Muboshgu could have moved the articles, as there was a consensus on a counter-proposal (equivalent to this one). HandsomeFella (talk) 22:34, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Eh, nah. There was consensus against the move as proposed, but I don't think there was consensus for this proposed move. There was some initial support, but not necessarily enough to say for sure. I'm not necessarily on board myself. – Muboshgu (talk) 22:46, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

• Support: The birthdates are too close together (as I said above), so these pages need to be moved. Nationality is apparently the least controversial way to move them, so I support it. Sanfranciscogiants17 (talk) 00:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
• Comment I suppose redirects from Ramón Ramírez (born 1981) , Ramón Ramírez (born 1982) , Ramón Ramírez (born 1977) will exist? And that Ramón Ramírez (pitcher) will be repointed to the disambiguation page? 70.24.251.71 (talk) 11:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

  Yes, something like that will be created. HandsomeFella (talk) 11:03, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

• Suppport More descriptive. Though I would prefer a current team -- which is even more descriptive -- if possible, for example Ramón Ramírez (New York Mets pitcher), and the article name can simply be changed when he is no longer with the Mets.--brewcrewer (yada, yada) 14:52, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
• Support - The players nationality won't change but the team he's playing for may. I support this proposal. Be bold and bust a move. -Travis Thurston+ 18:39, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

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