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Revision as of 00:13, 3 April 2012 editIanmacm (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers46,153 edits →County of residence: re← Previous edit Revision as of 00:43, 3 April 2012 edit undoMalleus Fatuorum (talk | contribs)145,401 edits →County of residence: here's another ideaNext edit →
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::Even if 109.150.136.82 said "I am Jim Hawkins", the next thing would be some users asking "How do we know it is really you?" For this reason I would advise Jim Hawkins (if he is reading this) to ] and deal with the Foundation directly.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 00:13, 3 April 2012 (UTC) ::Even if 109.150.136.82 said "I am Jim Hawkins", the next thing would be some users asking "How do we know it is really you?" For this reason I would advise Jim Hawkins (if he is reading this) to ] and deal with the Foundation directly.--'''''] <sup>]</sup>''''' 00:13, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

:::Here's another idea. Why doesn't Jimbo Wales call into Hawkins' radio show and ask if it's really him making these postings? And what in Hawkins' article is inaccurate? And in what way could an article that simply summarises the information on his employer's web sites and a few local newspapers and magazines be considered stressful? ] ] 00:43, 3 April 2012 (UTC)


== Let's make this simple == == Let's make this simple ==

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Actions taken to comply with WP:DOB

In line with OTRS request 2009090910048758 and the policy described at Privacy of personal information and using primary sources, after archiving I have removed the history of this talk page. I have removed from view discussions including or speculating about Jim Hawkins' full birth date from the talk page archives. Please do not replace or reproduce this material on this page or elsewhere, this will be treated as a failure to comply with the policy of Biographies of living persons. Any references to Jim Hawkins' birth date on the English Misplaced Pages must be limited to the year only.

If anyone feels these actions were in error, or that further actions are required to comply with policy, please raise for discussion on Administrators' noticeboard or email in confidence to the Volunteer Response Team rather than this talk page. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 23:04, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I have restored the history after discussion on Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard#Actions_taken_on_the_article. While the associated AFD is running there is more benefit in having the history available to make a proper determination of the associated issues with this page for compliance with WP:DOB. Once AFD is closed, an independent administrator should consider removing this page's history for the same reasons above. --Fæ (talk) 17:18, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

County of residence

My addition of the name of the county in which Hawkins resides has just been reverted by another editor as "stalkerish". This despite it being cited, to an article written by Hawkins himself, in a magazine exclusively about that county, in which he writes a regular column. It should be restored. I can see no part of BLP which says that a subject's self-publicised county of residence should not be include in an article about them. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:46, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

What I can see is why you need to be banned from this article once and for all; this continual obsession with adding this man's date of birth or current residence or whatever detail about his life you dig up next week is bringing this project into serious disrepute. Just please, back off and find something non-Hawkins to edit. Tarc (talk) 13:19, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
You're the editor who reverted me. Please either explain why the content you removed is not suitable for the article, or restore it; and in either case leave off the inappropriate ad hominem remarks. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 15:45, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
I see it as a matter of invasion of privacy, and that where a radio personality currently live is of no biographical significance whatsoever. As I once said in another BLP-related discussion, "decide if the information would be of benefit to a reader of an encyclopedia rather than a slurper of TMZ-style gossip". Tarc (talk) 16:20, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
As noted above, he writes about living there in an article written by himself, in a magazine exclusively about that county, in which he writes a regular column. The article is online and the magazine is available in newsagents there and elsewhere. His radio show likewise is based on his close association with the county in question. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:35, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
It would only be an invasion of privacy if the subject hadn't made the information publicly available himself, and practically made a career out of living in Shropshire. If there's any banning from this article required (and I don't think there is) then it should be Tarc who's banned. Malleus Fatuorum 17:36, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
What the subject chooses to talk about does not mean that it is suitable for inclusion here. I'll ask again, of what value is residency information to this article? I cannot even rise to the "no, you're banned!" bait; I'm immune to your bluster, given my own propensity for same. Tarc (talk) 18:42, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
As you have now descended to ad hominem attacks I'll leave you to figure that out for yourself. Malleus Fatuorum 18:53, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Well, as I consider the answer to be "no relevance whatsoever", then we can consider this matter resolved. Thank you for your input. Tarc (talk) 18:59, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Can I point out that the whole damn thing is an invasion of privacy?~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.150.136.82 (talk) 19:48, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

An invasion of privacy is, by definition, the release of private information. This information, however, is not private, but is stated by the subject in the very show he hosts. Silverseren 19:52, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Seriously, what is the matter with you people? I've just sent this email to whoever 'Wifione' is -

Who are these so-called 'editors'? Why should the people who've been stalking, bullying and harassing me - and have been doing so again today! - have any say in what happens to the article?

Hooray for policies. Does common human decency come into this anywhere? Or am I going to get the same response I've had for five years, the borderline-fundamentalist 'that's not how Misplaced Pages works'?

My capacity to work has been affected by the psychological strain this is putting on me. You people are making me ill, and compromising my ability to work. Tell me how you feel about that.

And: would you have reached the same conclusion about the article had you had to put your real name to it? What possible 'sensitive issues' can Misplaced Pages have?

j — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.150.136.82 (talk) 20:00, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

"My capacity to work has been affected by the psychological strain this is putting on me. You people are making me ill, and compromising my ability to work. Tell me how you feel about that." Couldn't care less? In what sense is it "psychological strain" to include information that you yourself have made public on many occasions?
"And: would you have reached the same conclusion about the article had you had to put your real name to it?" Absolutely. What's your real name BTW? Malleus Fatuorum 20:03, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

'Couldn't care less'? How foolish of me to expect anything else from you. Don't worry, sonny, when you grow up you might understand it. And, indeed, find a more useful way of spending your time. Hope springs eternal ...

Are you saying that the county publically stated in your radio show, Shropshire, is not the county you live in? Silverseren 20:05, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Seems to be the only plausible explanation for this outburst. Malleus Fatuorum 20:08, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

To someone with your powers of empathy and understanding, I'm sure that's true.

That, sadly, didn't answer my question. Do you live in Shropshire like your radio show says? Silverseren 20:11, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Give it a break now, this is making Misplaced Pages look amateurish and stupid. Please.--♦IanMacM♦ 20:08, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
How so? It's public information on the county where he lives and hosts his radio show. It's not like we're putting his address. This is public information that is standard for biographical articles. Silverseren 20:11, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Erm ... that's because it *is* amateurish and stupid! You don't need my help with that.~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.150.136.82 (talk) 20:10, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Well if it is any consolation, there are those here that agree with you. This article survived an attempt to delete because of very amateurish, stupid arguments. The "anyone can edit" encyclopedia has a flaw that allows it to be overrun by a mob at times. Tarc (talk) 21:30, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
... and mobbed by idiots most of the time. Malleus Fatuorum 23:15, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I see 3RR violations here. Want to quit this unkempt behaviour before I report it? --Pete (talk) 00:01, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Nope, report away. Malleus Fatuorum 00:06, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Even if 109.150.136.82 said "I am Jim Hawkins", the next thing would be some users asking "How do we know it is really you?" For this reason I would advise Jim Hawkins (if he is reading this) to WP:DENY and deal with the Foundation directly.--♦IanMacM♦ 00:13, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Here's another idea. Why doesn't Jimbo Wales call into Hawkins' radio show and ask if it's really him making these postings? And what in Hawkins' article is inaccurate? And in what way could an article that simply summarises the information on his employer's web sites and a few local newspapers and magazines be considered stressful? Malleus Fatuorum 00:43, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Let's make this simple

This is unnecessary and going nowhere
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

I have two questions, the first one relating to the discussion above and the second just of my own curiosity, since I don't believe it has been answered yet. The first needs only a yes or no, the second a more lengthy explanation. Jim, please answer these:

1. Is Shropshire the county you live in?

2. Why do you not want your birth date to be known here, when it is publically available anyways?

Please answer. Silverseren 20:26, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

By policy, he has a right not to have his birth date in his article. And you now demand that he explain that choice to you? --JN466 20:33, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Where do you see me demanding? I am asking him to. He can decide not to reply if he wants, that's up to him, but it's hard to consider his request when there isn't an explanation for it. Silverseren 20:36, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Focus on how to edit this article properly. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 20:37, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Which would mean including biographical information with reliable sources? I thought we've been doing that the entire time. Silverseren 20:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
This is getting into territory that could set off legal action. Assuming that 109.150.136.82 is Jim Hawkins (and it would help if this was stated, otherwise some people will doubt it), he is under no obligation to answer questions of this kind.--♦IanMacM♦ 20:41, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
And I never said he was. But it would clear up a lot of the confusion. Though it seems, from what i'm reading elsewhere, he has yet to answer any questions in regards to this or to explain why any of this information is causing him stress. Silverseren 20:43, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
I think you'll find sunshine that he is under no obligation to answer impertinent questions from teenager. Who do you think you are anyway Torquemada, Perry Mason, Columbo, or teh Pink Panther? John lilburne (talk) 20:47, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Pretty sure teenager means in your teens, but whatever. I don't think it's impertinent at all to ask why he wants something removed. His refusal to answer this basic question is rather baffling. Silverseren 20:52, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
The questions have been asked, and Mr. Hawkins is free to answer them or ignore them as he wishes. Since they've already been posed, I don't see much point in arguing about the propriety of asking them in the first place since both sides seem to be using this as an excuse to beat their respective drums. Perhaps everyone would be better served by shelving this discussion unless an answer is provided. Gamaliel (talk) 21:00, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
I realize that tempers are getting heated here, but that's all the more reason to keep a civil tongue, to prevent this from getting even more hysterical than it already is. No more of those sorts of comments, please. Gamaliel (talk) 20:49, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Fine -- but not a single comment in this section has anything to do with how the article will be edited -- so can I ask that it be hatted and editors put on notice than similar off-topic discussions will be summarily dealt with in the same way. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 21:01, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Personally, I think it is right and proper that tempers are getting heated. This page is an extremely malodorous environment. --JN466 21:04, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Jim Hawkins (radio presenter). (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Please add they following:

Since the December 2011 issue, on whose front cover he was pictured,<ref name="SLife2011-12a">{{cite journal|date=2011-12|journal=Shropshire Life|publisher=Archant|page=Cover|issn=1469-3941|url=http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?referral=other&pnum=&refresh=dW1590rN0cH8&EID=b92b3bc8-4f7f-42ed-919a-cfa0beb881ce&skip=}}</ref> he has written a monthly column for ''Shropshire Life'' magazine.<ref name="SLife2011-12b">{{cite journal|last=Hawkins|first=Jim|date=2011-12|title=On The Record|journal=Shropshire Life|publisher=Archant|page=23|issn=1469-3941|url=http://edition.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/launch.aspx?referral=other&pnum=&refresh=dW1590rN0cH8&EID=b92b3bc8-4f7f-42ed-919a-cfa0beb881ce&skip=}}</ref>

(Nowiki'd for easy of copy-&-pasting). Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 21:56, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

I thought you were asked to back off from editing thgis article, Why are you still editing this article is beyond me completely. Youreallycan 22:09, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
That matter is currently being discussed at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard‎#Proposed_topic_ban_of_Pigsonthewing. Please comment on this matter over there. Gamaliel (talk) 22:49, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
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