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Revision as of 12:26, 28 July 2004 editSEWilco (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers24,016 editsm →Books: formatting fix← Previous edit Revision as of 20:58, 28 July 2004 edit undo209.86.255.246 (talk) removed 'imposters' list, none of which gave testimony at WS. del- unsubstantiated and inflammatory adjs. rv- pg 60 FBI file.Next edit →
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The '''Winter Soldier Investigation''', took place in ], ], on ]-], ]. An activity of the ], it was presented as an assembly of 109 ] Veterans and 16 civilians giving detailed testimony to specific ] by the ] in ] during the years of ]-]. The soldiers' testimony often overlaps, which if true would have exposed a pattern of ] against the Vietnamese people. According to ''Stolen Valor'' author Burkett, the investigation has been thoroughly discredited. The claim of atrocities being common is greatly weakened by the military having prosecuted known violations, none of which were found through this event. The '''Winter Soldier Investigation''', took place in ], ], on ]-], ]. An activity of the ], it was presented as an assembly of 109 ] Veterans and 16 civilians giving detailed testimony to specific ] by the ] in ] during the years of ]-]. The soldiers' testimony often overlaps, which exposed a pattern of ] against the Vietnamese people. According to ''Stolen Valor'' author Burkett, the investigation has been thoroughly discredited, while the VVAW maintains the validity of all accounts and participants except Al Hubbard. Hundreds of known violations were prosecuted by the military, however, none of those testifying specifically at this event are known to have been prosecuted.
<!-- assembly of 109: VVAW says that number in 2004: http://www.vvaw.org/commentary/?id=404 --> <!-- assembly of 109: VVAW says that number in 2004: http://www.vvaw.org/commentary/?id=404 -->


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Future Senator ], then a decorated lieutenant in the Naval Reserve (inactive status), would shortly thereafter testify before the American Congress to the general conclusions gathered in Detroit. Prior to '''Winter Soldier''', Kerry interviewed some of the participants to familiarize himself with their complaints. They were officially interviewed during the three day hearing in Detroit by moderator ], while Kerry observed. Future Senator ], then a decorated lieutenant in the Naval Reserve (inactive status), would shortly thereafter testify before the American Congress to the general conclusions gathered in Detroit. Prior to '''Winter Soldier''', Kerry interviewed some of the participants to familiarize himself with their complaints. They were officially interviewed during the three day hearing in Detroit by moderator ], while Kerry observed.


Sen. ] of ] entered the '''Winter Soldier''' transcripts into the Congressional Record and asked the commandant of the ] for an investigation of the Marines that testified. Investigators were unable to confirm Sen. ] of ] entered the '''Winter Soldier''' transcripts into the Congressional Record and asked the commandant of the ] for an investigation of the Marines that testified. Investigators were unable to confirm or refute
<!-- The investigators said "unable to confirm", which includes both "deny" or "no evidence", so do not use "confirm or deny" unless they said they could not deny. --> <!-- The investigators said "unable to confirm", which includes both "deny" or "no evidence", so do not use "confirm or deny" unless they said they could not deny. -->
the claimed atrocities, but identified several participants as never being in combat, and some participants had used the names of Vietnam veterans. ] in ''America in Vietnam'' says "The results of this investigation, carried out by the Naval Investigative Service are interesting and revealing ... Many of the veterans, although assured that they would not be questioned about atrocities they might have committed personally, refused to be interviewed. One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorities." the claimed atrocities, but identified one organizer (Al Hubbard) as never being in combat. ] in ''America in Vietnam'' says "The results of this investigation, carried out by the Naval Investigative Service are interesting and revealing ... Many of the veterans, although assured that they would not be questioned about atrocities they might have committed personally, refused to be interviewed. One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorities."


==Testimony Troubles the Nation==
The VVAW maintains the validity of all accounts and participants except Al Hubbard.

==Errors in testimony==
<!-- http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/fbifiles/100-HQ-448092/Section%2002/Section%2002.pdf page 60 --> <!-- http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/fbifiles/100-HQ-448092/Section%2002/Section%2002.pdf page 60 -->
<!-- That is WinterSoldier.Com VVAW FBI files, http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=VVAWFBI document "Section 02", page 60, image of Detroit Free Press article. "The 2/3/71 edition of the "Detroit Free Press" on page 3-A contained the following article." Headline "Horrors of War Recounted By 40 Veterans of Vietnam". Weber said village targeted with white phosphorous. Other two say target was large nearby arms cache and village had little damage. --> <!-- That is WinterSoldier.Com VVAW FBI files, http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=VVAWFBI document "Section 02", page 60, image of Detroit Free Press article. "The 2/3/71 edition of the "Detroit Free Press" on page 3-A contained the following article." Headline "Horrors of War Recounted By 40 Veterans of Vietnam". Weber said village targeted with white phosphorous. Other two confirmed Weber's account, with John R. Wilson claiming (by phone) that the damage was minimal. The Pentagon did not confirm if Wilson ever served in Vietnam. -->
The ], ], ''Detroit Free Press'' promptly found two soldiers in James Weber's unit who disputed his statements about a white phosphorous artillery attack on a village, and had photos of the nearby large arms cache which was the target. The Pentagon confirmed that Weber and one of the other soldiers were Vietnam veterans. The ], ], ''Detroit Free Press'' interviewed two other soldiers in James Weber's unit who confirmed his statements about a white phosphorous artillery attack on a village, and had photos of a nearby large arms cache uncovered in the village. The Pentagon confirmed that Weber and one of the other soldiers were Vietnam veterans.


==Phony Vietnam veterans== ==Phony Vietnam veterans alleged in books==
Guenter Lewy's ] book ''America in Vietnam'' (pages 316-317) and ] and ]'s ''Stolen Valor'' (Verity Press, Inc., Dallas, Texas)(pages 113, 131-137) contain similar information about alleged flaws in Lane's book. Neither book, however, refutes any of the testimony given during the '''Winter Soldier Investigation'''. Guenter Lewy's ] book ''America in Vietnam'' (pages 316-317) and ] and ]'s ''Stolen Valor'' (Verity Press, Inc., Dallas, Texas)(pages 113, 131-137) contain similar information about alleged flaws in Lane's book. Neither book, however, refutes any of the testimony given during the '''Winter Soldier Investigation'''.


* Lawyer and activist Mark Lane was one of the organizers of '''Winter Soldier'''. In 1970, Lane had published a book called ''Conversations With Americans'' purporting to be interviews with Vietnam veterans about war crimes, containing absurd Vietnam tales. Reporter ] showed some interviewed in Lane's book had never served in Vietnam and others had not been in the situations they described. Lane admitted he did not check military records, as confirmation of details was not relevant. Lane later confirmed these militarty records. <!-- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/smearing.htm --> * Lawyer and activist Mark Lane was one of the organizers of '''Winter Soldier'''. In 1970, Lane had published a book called ''Conversations With Americans'' purporting to be interviews with Vietnam veterans about war crimes, containing Vietnam tales of atrocities. Reporter ] showed some interviewed in Lane's book had never served in Vietnam and others had not been in the situations they described. Lane admitted he did not check military records, as confirmation of details was not relevant. Lane later confirmed these militarty records. <!-- http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/smearing.htm -->
** The following are often falsely listed as being participants in '''Winter Soldier''', but were actually in Lane's book instead. This confusion is probably due to ''Stolen Valor'' having an explanation of Lane's history within the section on '''Winter Soldier'''. ** The following are often falsely listed as being participants in '''Winter Soldier''', but were actually in Lane's book instead. This confusion is probably due to ''Stolen Valor'' having an explanation of Lane's history within the section on '''Winter Soldier'''.
*** Chuck Onan, stock room clerk in Beaufort, S.C. *** Chuck Onan, stock room clerk in Beaufort, S.C.
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*** Garry Gianninoto, medical corpsman at battalion headquarters. *** Garry Gianninoto, medical corpsman at battalion headquarters.
** VVAW leader and '''Winter Soldier''' co-organizer Al Hubbard lied about being an officer, and sustaining war injuries - but he never testified at '''Winter Soldier''' . ** VVAW leader and '''Winter Soldier''' co-organizer Al Hubbard lied about being an officer, and sustaining war injuries - but he never testified at '''Winter Soldier''' .
* :
** Elton Mazione, falsely claiming Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) credentials, along with his friends, John Laboon, Eddie Swetz, and Kenneth Van Lesser. They claimed to kill children and remove body parts as part of the notorious Phoenix program. They were neither in Phoenix nor in Vietnam nor did they testify at Winter Soldier.
** Michael Harbert, another VVAW member, exaggerated his Vietnam service, but never testified.
** Yoshia K. Chee claimed Phoenix operatives routinely resorted to the most hideous forms of torture, threw people out of helicopters, and decapitated prisoners. He was a phony.
** Mike Beamon, an alleged SEAL and Phoenix assassin, was never in the military.
** VVAW and similar groups relied upon sources like:
*** K. Barton Osborn, a Vietnam veteran and testifier of atrocities to Congress. He told of prisoners being thrown out of helicopters, a woman starved to death, a prisoner being killed by a six inch dowel pushed through his ear. Osborn was not in Phoenix, refused to name names, and provided no documentation.
*** Lieutenants Francis Reitemeyer and Michael J. Cohn. Both sought conscientious objector status because of Phoenix. Reitemeyer testified to being assigned to Phoenix as an adviser and maintain a kill quota of fifty bodies a month. They became famous as My Lai hit the news. Neither served in Vietnam, or in Phoenix. Reitemeyer later denied receiving any assassination training.


==External links== ==External links==

Revision as of 20:58, 28 July 2004

The Winter Soldier Investigation, took place in Detroit, Michigan, on January 31-February 2, 1971. An activity of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, it was presented as an assembly of 109 Vietnam War Veterans and 16 civilians giving detailed testimony to specific crimes against humanity by the United States in Vietnam during the years of 1963-1970. The soldiers' testimony often overlaps, which exposed a pattern of atrocities against the Vietnamese people. According to Stolen Valor author Burkett, the investigation has been thoroughly discredited, while the VVAW maintains the validity of all accounts and participants except Al Hubbard. Hundreds of known violations were prosecuted by the military, however, none of those testifying specifically at this event are known to have been prosecuted.

Jane Fonda helped raise funds for the event, and organizers included Dick Gregory, Phil Ochs, Graham Nash, David Crosby, and Donald Sutherland.

Future Senator John Kerry, then a decorated lieutenant in the Naval Reserve (inactive status), would shortly thereafter testify before the American Congress to the general conclusions gathered in Detroit. Prior to Winter Soldier, Kerry interviewed some of the participants to familiarize himself with their complaints. They were officially interviewed during the three day hearing in Detroit by moderator Al Hubbard, while Kerry observed.

Sen. Mark Hatfield of Oregon entered the Winter Soldier transcripts into the Congressional Record and asked the commandant of the Marine Corps for an investigation of the Marines that testified. Investigators were unable to confirm or refute the claimed atrocities, but identified one organizer (Al Hubbard) as never being in combat. Guenter Lewy in America in Vietnam says "The results of this investigation, carried out by the Naval Investigative Service are interesting and revealing ... Many of the veterans, although assured that they would not be questioned about atrocities they might have committed personally, refused to be interviewed. One of the active members of the VVAW told investigators that the leadership had directed the entire membership not to cooperate with military authorities."

Testimony Troubles the Nation

The February 2, 1971, Detroit Free Press interviewed two other soldiers in James Weber's unit who confirmed his statements about a white phosphorous artillery attack on a village, and had photos of a nearby large arms cache uncovered in the village. The Pentagon confirmed that Weber and one of the other soldiers were Vietnam veterans.

Phony Vietnam veterans alleged in books

Guenter Lewy's 1978 book America in Vietnam (pages 316-317) and B.G. Burkett and Glenna Whitley's Stolen Valor (Verity Press, Inc., Dallas, Texas)(pages 113, 131-137) contain similar information about alleged flaws in Lane's book. Neither book, however, refutes any of the testimony given during the Winter Soldier Investigation.

  • Lawyer and activist Mark Lane was one of the organizers of Winter Soldier. In 1970, Lane had published a book called Conversations With Americans purporting to be interviews with Vietnam veterans about war crimes, containing Vietnam tales of atrocities. Reporter Neil Sheehan showed some interviewed in Lane's book had never served in Vietnam and others had not been in the situations they described. Lane admitted he did not check military records, as confirmation of details was not relevant. Lane later confirmed these militarty records.
    • The following are often falsely listed as being participants in Winter Soldier, but were actually in Lane's book instead. This confusion is probably due to Stolen Valor having an explanation of Lane's history within the section on Winter Soldier.
      • Chuck Onan, stock room clerk in Beaufort, S.C.
      • Michael Schneider, deserted in Europe and deserted again in the USA.
      • Terry Whitmore, was in an unpopulated area of Vietnam.
      • Garry Gianninoto, medical corpsman at battalion headquarters.
    • VVAW leader and Winter Soldier co-organizer Al Hubbard lied about being an officer, and sustaining war injuries - but he never testified at Winter Soldier .

External links

Books

  • Burkett, B. G. & Whitley, Glenna (1998). Stolen Valor : How the Vietnam Generation Was Robbed of Its Heroes and Its History. Dallas: Verity Press Inc. ISBN 096670360X.
  • Lewy, Guenter (1978). America in Vietnam. New York: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195023919. ISBN 0195027329 pbk.