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Untitled

Discussion Archives: Archive 1, Archive 2, Archive 3, Archive 4

Basic decision

Hi people,

I would prefer not to go back to edit warring. Now we have to decide what we should do now. Should we work on an existing version to enhance it, or create a new version (I started basic work on this)? Opinions? - Snchduer 12:29, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

From the text: The Cyprus dispute is the result of the ongoing conflict between the Republic of Cyprus and Turkey, over the Turkish occupied northern part of Cyprus (...)

Then why are the decades of talks to solve the Cyprus dispute (in my opinion not to solve the dispute but to present -to the world community of nations- the Greek Cypriot Administration of South Cyprus as if it were doing something to solve the problem, i.e. mocking the world) are being carried out between the Turkish Cypriot Community and the Greek Cypriot Community? I am talking about the UN sponsored talks, why are these talks not between the Greek Cypriots and Turkey? Because the UN knows the dispute, what it is and between who and who it is.

Greece falsified its economic data to enter the EU and the Greek Cypriots lied to the EU at the time of the Annan Plan that would solve the problem of Reunification of Cyprus. The Europeans are kidnapped by some liars, but the UN (the world) is not only Europe and recently Europe (EU) is also waking up, after the Greek crisis, to see how they have been cheated for so many years by some people... E4024 (talk) 18:43, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

.

New Version of Cyprus dispute

Well, due to recent developments (e.g. creation of the Civilian casualties and displacements during the Cyprus conflict) and controversy about versions (JL's version is "too neutral", Argyro's version is too one-sided), I would like to start this article completely anew, with a basic structure that is topic-oriented (not time-oriented). I will start this at Cyprus_dispute/New_version, without filling it with content yet. First of all, we need a "skeleton" of the article. When we have agreed on a structure, we will start filling the new version with content. If we see that at any point, editing seems to go smoothly, we may propose the unlocking of the article, with the agreed-on version becoming the starting point of the new article.

As soon as we have a working version, the structure of the article must stay the same until agreed otherwise in the future.

That at least is my idea of how we could work productively, moving from a deadlock that is of no benefit to anyone. - Snchduer 12:38, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

contribute!

Ok - the page is unlocked, and Argyro went back to edit-warring instead of discussing. Has been blocked for this behaviour, obviously, as well. Nevertheless, I would like to know if anybody is interested in creating a new version of the page, that could be more complete, and less timeline-centered (thus a bit less likely to create friction). Link is above. If I do not see any reaction on this new version thing within a week, I will simply request it for deletion. - Snchduer 23:14, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps there should be two pages: Cyprus Dispute (Turkish Cypriot view) and Cyprus Dispute (Greek Cypriot view). The current page can simply have basic data and have links to the other sites so that constant rewrites on one page will be unnecessary. - Expatkiwi 23:00, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wow, discussion! (grin) Well, I would certainly like to see that some day as a project on Cyprus, but in an encyclopedia ... ? In this case, we would have two extreme POV articles heavily violating wikipedia's NPOV policy. And tiresome to the potential reader, to say the least. I would prefer the approach of the Civilian casualties and displacements during the Cyprus conflict article (I might be biased coz I put the structure there, however) - put appropriate information in appropriate sections, and keep historic information as short as possible. - Snchduer 11:10, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Unprotecting

Discussion seems to have stagnated. Unprotecting. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 23:49, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Argyrosargyrou

Dont try and turn this into the RoC explanation of the Cyprus dispute, this article is a political overview of the situation, if you want to talk about murders and death rates put it inCivilian casualties and displacements during the Cyprus conflict. Quoting what you saw on the TV is also not very encylopedic.

User: OOOklahoma

Hello all. OOOklahoma has made a number of edits with a Greek Cypriot POV that I have reverted. I'd like him to post the changes he wants, and we can discuss them case by case. They don't appear to be the copy and paste jobs that our dear friend Argyrosargyrou prefers; nevertheless, they are controversial. I'm wondering if he would cite his sources here, please. --Scimitar 23:15, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

He raised some interesting points, yet destroying NPOV in some changed sections. For instance, calling it "EOKA and TMT" campaign in the pre-1960 period is not completely out of line. Yet I would prefer some more neutral term like "extremist campaigns 1955-1959". Later on, he changed the '74 violence history to mentioning the deaths in single villages, which might be introduced - but I think and overall picture is more helpful. (cf. also diff) - Snchduer 23:46, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I agree that the section title could be changed, but I would much rather stay away from individual massacres, because a) this article is an overview and b) that's an invitation to the kind of insanity we want to get away from. There are a number of documented abuses on both sides, and I fear getting into them would result in permanent edit warring. Still, let's wait and see if OOOklahoma has anything to say before decisions are made. --Scimitar 23:55, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• I like this persons changes with some small revisions like mentioning the end of enosis but should also mention that the Turks, for the time being have achieved their objective of Taksim or division. Extremist campaigns is a good title. I want to read the source of these changes and also if true this may call for some cautious revisions of other related articles.(UNFanatic)

Dear UNFanatic, you are right in saying "Turks" because there are "Turks" and "Greeks" in Cyprus, if you wish Cypriot Turks and Cypriot Greeks. The issue is, at the wake of Empire (the British one) there were little chances of returning the island to its former, legal, lawful, legitimate sovereign owner, called "Turkey". The Greeks wanted ENOSIS, uniting the island to Greece, supposedly (...) with the Turkish community on the island as a minority. (x) The Turks had been left with no other chance but the option of Taksim/Division, because they share a Turkish collective memory about the always sad destiny of Turkish "minorities" (communities) under Greek-domination. I think you should concentrate more on the history of Cyprus, how it was retained by the Turks as a Greek-majority island, after its conquest from the Venetians several centuries ago. Something that ethnic cleansers (I am not pointing to any nation in particular) in the Balkan peninsula would have difficulty in understanding...

(x) Only within three years of the establishment of the former "Republic of Cyprus" (PBUI) the Greeks began the cleansing of the Turks in Cyprus. The same thing that they had planned to do, in case they could achieve their aim of ENOSIS, uniting the island to Greece.

Last Words:

I wonder, folks, don't you even notice that when they asked for ENOSIS, the so-called Greek Cypriots proclaimed they were Greeks! When it is about dominating the Turks on the island, they are (there are) only Cypriots!! If it is about a bi-communal solution, then there are Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots!!! (Respectively 1, 2 and finally 3 exclamation signs!)

I take these Greek attitudes as an insult to human intelligence... E4024 (talk) 11:26, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Case by Case edits

EOKA / TMT in the 50s

Okay, as far as I can see, OOOklahoma's edits can be divided into four main parts: 1) Specifically wording "the Turkish invasion of 1974" as opposed to just "since 1974" in the opening paragraph 2) Information on Mehmet 3) Events of late October/early November 1967 4) Retaliatory murders of Turkish Cypriots.

I'm leaning towards including 1 and some of 3. If 2 and 4 can be verified, I think a brief mention of those would be appropriate as well. What do you guys think? --Scimitar 15:30, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I disagree with the change from EOKA campaign to Extremist campaigns. The EOKA campaign was the major organised violent campaign between 55-59, the TMT was ill equipped, unorganised and barely possesed any firearms in that period. Other than rousing diplomatic support in Turkey, it barely had a campaign to speak of. We shouldn't 'soften' titles to the point of distorting major incidents. --E.A 16:13, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It may have been poorly organized and ill-equipped, but it still qualifies as a counter-campaign, does it not? --Scimitar 17:05, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well it depends what you class as a campaign, the EOKA campaign was a carefully planned system of violence to achieve enosis. TMT used words more than action, see here: http://www.cyprus-conflict.net/renewal_of_violence%20-%20'57-58.htm

The only reason "The EOKA campaign" had its own title was because it was the major event of that period, we shouldnt try and dilute it for the sake of political corectness and say TMT was just as bad. I suggest "1955-59 EOKA campaign and creation of the TMT" - I think this title highlights more that TMT was a response to EOKA and enosis. --E.A 18:16, 23 Jun

I would agree with that title. --Scimitar 19:23, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sounds ok to me as well, but waiting for a GR/GC point of view. - Snchduer 19:58, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

As far as I know, both EOKA and TMT are considered extremist campaigns(at least I do), regardless of the organizational aspects. (The Greek-Cypriots are more specific and consider EOKA-2 to be the real extremist group and EOKA, which immediately disbanded and had originally fought against the British for self determination, which the British did not allow, but later compromised on Independence. TMT entered the fray in the 1950s with EOKA though.) One wanted one extreme - enosis or union with Greece- and the other wanted the other extreme - taksim or division of the Island. Labeling it as only EOKA campaigns does not fully reflect everyone involved in where during the 1950's.(UNFanatic 00:11, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC))

Well if anyone can actually give evidence of a concerted TMT campaign in the 50's to achieve Taksim then go ahead. As it stands the article only mentions their creation and purpose, not enough to justify they ran a terrorist campaign. --E.A 11:47, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Okay, so about the OOOklahoma edits that I proposed we adopt- does anyone have any objections to me instituting them the way I suggested? --Scimitar 13:23, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, just mentioning Turkey as the reason of the split doesn't take into accout the Greek coup or the violence in the 60's. With regards to the 67 period, those edits were too specific. --E.A 22:56, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Tierra del Fuego solution

I apologize to the Cypriots for the displacement and the division that Turkey's invasion against Cyprus and ongoing occupation has caused.

I don't know who wrote the above sentence. As senseless as he/she/they might be, to ignore or to pretend ignoring the fact of the Bloody Christmas of 1963-1964 perpetrated by the Greek Cypriots, with the henious aim of making all the Turks disappear from Cyprus (by massacres or by forced exodus), is the only reason behind the division of the island of Cyprus is lacking either basic intelligence or the decency to repent for inhuman acts by one's own folks. How can these people take others as stupids? Why is the UN force on Cyprus since 1964? If a person does not know or is hypocritic enough to pretend to ignore the sad fact that the Turks lived in forced ghettos between 1964and 1974 does he/she have a right to join a group of people trying to write an article about Cyprus? I believe this is vandalism. Pretending to ignore the situation of the Turks (yes Turks, Cypriot Turks, not really Turkish Cypriots, I am kind of bored about this hypocritical political correctness) in REAL CONCENTRATION CAMPS within Cyprus, their homeland, with Greek (or Greek Cypriot if that will make you happy) guardians, ruthless guardians that controlled even a simple family visit between those camps is vandalism... E4024 (talk) 23:13, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Cyprus cannot be divided as Greek and Turkish Cypriots have properties and homes in all the areas of Cyprus.

Sir, Mam, Brits have properties in all the areas of Cyprus. Should the island unite with the UK? Is it not enough to have all the island in the EU? What an argument to oppose the right of the Turkish Cypriots to sovereignty!.. E4024 (talk) 23:17, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry to the Cypriots. I guess that Turkey has a long way ahead before becoming a democratic state.

The above sentence, other than not carrying a correct opinion, has no place in this page. The person who wrote it here has a long road to walk to become a democrat. BTW I believe it is vandalism to write about the democratic standards of one country in a page about other countries. I ask the administrators to intervene with these anonymous claims... E4024 (talk) 23:21, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Not that Turkey finished its struggle towards a perfect democracy, though I'd like to invite people to think about

the number of wars started by more "democratic" countries. This dispute doesn't have anything to do with democracy

in Turkey. There were also times Greece was ruled by the Army during this dispute. See the article for 21 April 1967

coup d'état in Greece ). Both sides have done things that require apology.

The interim peacekeeping force 1963-64

"on December 27, 1963, an interim peacekepeing force, the Joint Truce Force, was put together by Britain, Greece and Turkey. This held the line until a United Nations peacekeeping force, UNFICYP, was formed..."

There was an initial agreement between Britain, Greece and Turkey to form an interim peacekeeping force, but in the event neither Greece nor Turkey participated and the interim peacekeeping duties fell entirely to the British until the arrival of UNFICYP.

I propose to make the appropriate edit if nobody objects to this within the next few days.

--Gkaraolides 8 July 2005 13:18 (UTC)

There was no Turkish bombing in 1967

"Responding to a major attack on Turkish Cypriot villages in the South of the island, which left 27 dead, Turkey bombed Greek Cypriot forces..."

The Turkish Air Force did not bomb during the Kofinou crisis in 1967. They bombed during the Kokkina crisis in 1964.

I propose to make the appropriate edit if nobody objects to this within the next few days.

--Gkaraolides 8 July 2005 13:27 (UTC)

I am surprised to see no reference concerning the Akritas plan. Something that has been proven as having a direct connection to the Greek Cypriot Enosis Extremists planting bombs and Turkish cigarette butts in order to inflame the situation and lay the blame for the bombs on the Turkish Cypriots. The current President (Tassos) is directly linked to this organisation and there has been documented proof presented of his original long term plan for the island. Something which appears to have, unfortunately, worked perfectly for him.

Population Table

I went ahead and added a population table from the book specified. The table requires some work as I am not an expert in wiki coding but all the information is there verbatim from page 11. If someone sees more fit, place the table in a more appropriate location. Hopefully this wont cause too much of an uproar from either side of the fanatics that some real info was added instead of POV edits. --Kakonator 06:42, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Grivas: founder of modern guerilla warfare

first time at wiki, unsure if this is useful, however, somewhere there is a quote from Fidel Castro in which he attributes this fact to his own tactics at warfare . Needless to say,if true, interesting with the evolution of this form of warfare to its present state, used by terrorist most effectively.

Also, it is important to refine the history of Cyprus, by dating its origins to the time where its name originated: a word meaning copper in the language spoken in Egypt over 4000 years ago. Also, how did Cyprus get so many village names in Arabic, mostly obliterated by Turkey's recent efforts to completely change the toponomy of the land they occupy.

Arabic names

That's very interesting. Though I think that most of the town and province names in the republic have been gven Greek names, too? Seeing as you know so much could you give us a list with their root origin. I'd be interested to read about that.

POV Push

I have re-added the ROC's OWN document detailing how many of its citizens were displaced in 1974. If people wish to challenege the accuracy of the Republic of Cyprus Government how about discussing it before placing other, less accurate, citations live. Or does a third party know better than the ROC how many people lost their homes that year. Adam777 19:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Seems that some admit what the Republic of Cyprus says ONLY when it happens to benefit the other side... Anyway, the link u have provided from the Cypriot government says more than 160,000. i've added the third party source. it doesn't mean that the Cypriot government's source contadicts this one... the US Congress says about 200,000 and Cyprus says more than 160,000... Clear enough why we should include both. Hectorian 21:16, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I would argue that neither number benefits either side as there are still many thousands of displaced Greek Cypriots (and Turkish Cypriots for that matter). I thought there was a certain Irony in using ROC documents to contradict Aristovoulus's edits which are probably the most one-sided and partisan I have seen of any editor on Misplaced Pages (and Ive made edits on some English rugby articles and those guys are pretty one-eyed). Anyway I am not going to bother reverting cypriot related articles from now on. If people are prepared to honestly claim that Turkish Cypriots all moved into the enclaves for all those years JUST to get partition then their slight grip on reality cant be debated with and its pointless to try. I'm dissapointed that blatant nationalism can come to bear on wikipedia (not in your case, whilst we've disagreed in the past Ive found your edits common sense). It kind of makes a mockery of the concept of a wiki, plus its taken up too much of my time and I have, frankly, better things to do. I'd hate to see what it says about Cyprus on the Greek Misplaced Pages, I bet thats a riot. All the best. Adam777 23:15, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Talking about that period, the thousands of GCs who were living in the northern part of the island, the about 5,000 deads of the turkish invasion, the about 1,500 missing, the about 1,500 (or more?) trapped in the north, all we can say is about . i think it is obvious why... I suppose u added the 160,000 number as exact (though the source u found was talking clearly approximately) because this was the lowest number u found, but that may be just my imagination... U are the second person who says that my edits are on the grounds of "common sense", and i tend to consider this a compliment:). Talking about the 'TCs in the enclaves' (implying EOKA-B) as if this was a reason for the invasion, u should go further back in history to see which was the reason for the enclaves... With this travel in the past, i bet u know where u will find youself... I am not justifying or legitimising the enclaves (nor i think any other greek does)... such a short historic memory does not apply to the Greeks... but, applies to others... Try the greek article about Cyprus in interwiki... it is short, no pictures, and if u can understand the greek alphabet, u may be able to recognise some of the words... It is not as NPOV as this one, but it is by all certainty more NPOV than this one... Be fine and wish u all the best too. Hectorian 23:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

With regard to the specific number of displaced Greek Cypriots. What brought my attention to that number is that is was different in most of the articles on Misplaced Pages, some mentioned 160,000, some 180,000 and some 200,000. So I went through the ROC websites until I found a number which was 'Over 160,000'. So thats the term I used. I was looking for consistency (and the irony of using an ROC document was amusing). Of course 'Over 160,000' could mean any number at all but if the number was far higher then the figure quoted would be closer to the higher figure. When it comes to these acts I think most of the world doesnt comprehend the figures anyway, most of the world has forgotten Cyprus, and whatever we write and argue about here isnt going to get one GC back their property, or bring back one murdered cypriot, Greek or Turkish. Adam777 01:30, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

You serious? :-) Aristovoul0s 16:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Number of refugees

Neither the "Country studies" site, nor the cited U.S. Library of Congress are 'inaccurate' sources. I expect Aristovoul0s and Adam777 to find a way to add both inside the article. If it is not done by tomorrow, I'll do it myself. Thanks. •NikoSilver• 09:19, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Ceyhan and the Port Crisis

I think it could be interesting to mention that the current crisis between Turkey and the EU over the ROC's access to Turkish (air)ports can be linked to strategic Turkish energy policy concerns. This is at least what somebody in the Ceyhan article suggested. Any thoughts on that? Letus 20:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Correct this, please

"This call for enosis grew louder after Britain took administrative control of the island in 1878, to prevent Ottaman homeland from Russia following the Congress of Berlin."

to prevent Ottoman homeland from Russia following the ..? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.112.30.245 (talk) 00:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

Origins of Votes in the Referenda

Does anyone have more precise information on the exact origins of the vote percentages? The text says that certain percentages of Greek and Turkish Cypriots voted with yes or no. The numbers in the tables do however correspond to Communities. As far as I am concerned it is not clear whether this is the same. If I am not wrong the Turkish Cypriot region is home to a large number of Turkish settlers. Were the settlers allowed to vote? How many mainland Greeks were allowed to vote in the Republic-controlled area? Letus 14:17, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Recent Developments

These links were added, because they seemed appropriate.

If someone(s) belives it belongs somewhere else, feel free to move them.

Φilhellenism 03:13, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Can we soften the tone on Britain?

There's the odd hint of what seems to be anti-British bias in this article.

Use of words like 'dictator' in reference to the Governor, the reference to Britain's promise to SATISFY the demand for enosis, the suggestion that Macmillan deliberately aggravated the situation by provoking Turkey to take a more aggressive stance, and the suggestion that by applying a nomenclature to the two high-level ethnicities Britain was some way implicit in laying the grounds for the dispute.

Unless these comments can be substantiated by reference, can I suggest:

1. The Governor assumed legislative and administative powers, empowered (by who?) to rule by decree. 2. Britain's promise to CONSIDER demands for enosis. 3. Macmillan canvassed Turkey's views on Cyprus. 4. Leave mention on the British creation of 'Turkish Cypriot' and 'Greek Cypriot' but delete the commentary.

Thoughts?

I agree, feel free to balance it.

With reference to the above: At the wake of the British colonization of Cyprus, one of two things should be done: 1. Return the island to Turkey, its former (and for me lawful) sovereign. 2. Divide the island and give a part to Turkey and the other to Greece, as "some party" (x) laid the stones to making it (Option No 1) impossible, unacceptable for the Greeks who could not opt voluntarily to live under Turkish rule in Cyprus.

(x) I am referring to the 6-7 September events in Istanbul against the Greek citizens and the Turkish citizens of Greek Orthodox faith. When we discover everything and every party involved in the provocation of the 6-7 September events, we will better understand the case of Cyprus.

Anyhow, these two options were not attractive to the colonizer because they left little or no room for keeping two sovereign bases on the island. This is why the Turkish and Greek (not really Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot, but Turkish and Greek, if you wish Cypriot Turks and Cypriot Greeks, ie Turks, Greeks that live/d on the island of Cyprus) communities accepted, as better than being a colony, the establishment of the bicommunal Republic of Cyprus (PBUI), which only lived about three years... E4024 (talk) 11:51, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Anti- anybody is POV. I would first like to say that my only interest in one side or the other is that I was nearly blown up by Greek Cypriots while laying over in Nicosia and our mom stuck us in between the mattresses while the British fought to regain control of the streets. I have since been an anti-terrorist. My comments: After the British failure to control the American colonies, they changed the way they controlled separatists. elements of the policy included supporting the less powerful group against the more powerful. The establishment of paramilitary forces based in "police Fortresses", the establishment of Paramilitary forces Officered by British and manned by locals. It is well documented that the British, as late as 1948, wanted to keep many of their colonies and used tactics we now consider inhumane. In Cyprus as well as in other colonies, groups that got along before the British were there, end up fighting with each other after they left. The British created an environment in Cyprus which has led to many of the problems that are now there. A comparison to Israel and India is illustrative. Saltysailor (talk) 18:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Weasel words

there is a lot of weasel words, like "most Greek cyriots would hypothize"

Bad and aimless writing

It would be best for folks who are really bad writers or incapable of editing own work, seek help rather than defile these pages ruthlessly. Even a Greek would be ashamed of the blatant propagandistic and random clippings without little connection to the topic. Needs much clean up.--Murat (talk) 01:32, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Refs etc

Hi

I have made a start on the refs which are mostly wrong format, and so have bot generated titles. I will come back to it in a couple of days.

Thanks--Chaosdruid (talk) 01:53, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Article title is terrible

It suggests that there is only one dispute in all of Cyprus. Leopold Stotch (talk) 23:02, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Jewish claims on Cyprus

I have read about claims that extremist Jewish groups are targeting Cyprus as a possible area of settlement once they feel they have defeated the Palestinians. For instance, there are Zionist organizations that have drawn a map of what they feel is Greater Israel, the entire Middle East as it was inhabitated by ancient Judaic tribes during the Bronze Age. There are also claims that these same groups are presently targeting the current kingdom of Jordan for possible settlement expansion. ADM (talk) 04:10, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Your links do not correspond to your (rather fantastic) claims of claims. This all seems to be a bit of anti-Semitic scare-mongering which you, unfortunately, seem to have taken seriously. The article about Jordan merely claims that some Jews want to be able to own land in Jordan, to return to Jordanian lands they once inhabited by purchasing these lands as private owners, which they are currently forbidden from doing. Information about the modern History of the Jews in Cyprus is in the corresponding Misplaced Pages article. Cyprus was indeed, like Germany, the Philippines, and Alaska, thought of by some as an alternative if Jews could not achieve self-determination in Israel. But they did, and I don't think there's a serious movement to split off a fifth piece of Cyprus for Israel.

Daniel Pipes has written about the "Greater Israel" paranoia, including a comment about Cyprus: "Early Zionists considered a wide range of lands for Jewish colonization, including Cyprus, Sinai, Mesopotamia, East Africa, and Argentina. In addition, the Soviet regime made Birobidzhan, a distant region of Siberia, into its version of a Jewish homeland. These territories should be understood as alternatives to, not extensions of, Palestine." Calbaer (talk) 20:00, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

In essense you can say that there is no such thing as Turkish Cypriots Or Greek Cypriots they are Turks and Greeks which lived happily together. It was created by British propaganda to cause a ethnic dispute and thus a reason for their involvment in the invasion to the island. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.239.99 (talk) 02:11, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Do you really think Greeks needed a British "invention" to fill their lives with hate and Turkophobia? They lived happily ever after because Ottomans knew how to run things and their millet system. When will Greeks take some responsibility for all they have done? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.56.118.177 (talk) 04:10, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

People need to read hitory - the "Jews" never settled here, but there were civilisations which encompassed Cyprus and others, such as Levant and Assyria

Chaosdruid (talk) 00:46, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Problem areas

Intro - needs working on as is jumbled and some statements are very POV

Before 1960 section needs a lot of reworking, some things are out of time such as para starting 1954 followed by para starting 1950

Generally a lot of refs are not current and some are from VERY dodgy sources, I will try and give this some time to bring back into sanity

Chaosdruid (talk) 00:30, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

Really biased presentation

I'm an American, and I have no "dog in this fight," but I know the history, and I have to say that this article is heavily biased toward the Greek Cypriot position. I recommend serious edits to give a fair shake to both sides to this complex dispute. Misplaced Pages shouldn't be a vehicle for one-sided propaganda. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.49.151 (talk) 02:06, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

A very concise but extremely interesting comment, by all accounts. While I have no reason to doubt the person who made this comment has no personal "dog in this fight", he / she does, however, volunteer he / she is in fact an American; a country which has one of the largest 'dogs' in this fight, and has very publicly and consistently backed Turkey in this dispute, despite its complex relations with the United Nations and Greece (a NATO member) whose position on the illegality of the 1974 operation is clear. The foreign policy motives for this, have been relatively transparent (for a review of this see http://www.erpic.eu/index.php?view=article&id=260 by Sherle R. Schwenninger, former editor of World Policy Journal). I would argue that the history that you "know" is the history you are presented in the US education system and media, and articles you read in predominantly American or US-centered publications, which by extension are themselves politically biased in the opposite direction to what you suggest. Therefore, your generic assessment of a bias would have to be expected, even in a perfectly neutral text.

Did you say (Greece, a NATO member)? What is Turkey then? Have you ever read any paper on which countries contribute most to NATO's peace-keeping operations and other international commitments? Believe me you will not find the name of Greece there. Guess which neighbouring country is among the most active NATO members...E4024 (talk) 23:16, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Regrettably though, this comment in itself sounds more like a strawman argument to me, or at best a rant. "Recommending" that "someone" make "serious edits" is not a particularly useful or constructive suggestion in my opinion. If you have particular suggestions or edits to make, that correctly identify statements as biased, and then offer alternative phrasing complying with wikipedia's policy on neutrality and backed by evidence, then please do so, and be assured they will be most welcomed. Crying 'foul' over "Misplaced Pages being a vehicle for propaganda" in the most abstract manner, because somehow the tone of an article doesn't fit with your pre-established point of view, however, isn't. Apologies if this sounds harsh. "Thanks". 80.0.209.85 (talk) 13:34, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

What is regrettable is that the original commentor hit the nail on the head. Misplaced Pages has ceased to be a genuine source of unbiased information on any topic that relates to Greeks or Armenians a long time ago. They have marshalled armies of cyber thugs to recreate a version of history more to their liking and defend their ethnic prides against all facts. Articles such as these are striking examples. They have more humor value than anything else at this point. The above so-called response exposes the problem well.Murat (talk) 03:46, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I agree. I came here looking for information and what I see is basically something that looks copy/pasted from a pro-Greek-Cypriot partisan website. Sorry that I do not have the required information myself to suggest NPOV edits. The page needs rebalancing. 194.237.142.10 (talk) 13:11, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

The Greeks lose at the battlefield but win at the peace conferences: 1897, Balkan Wars (1911-12), Turkish Liberation War etc. In a century after their independence from Turkey / Ottoman Empire, without winning a war by themselves but thanks to third parties' intervention, they tripled their territory reaching at islands on the Anatolian coast. The major powers have always leaned towards them, maybe for religious(?) solidarity or in sake of Greek mythology (...) destroying the balance of power in Turco-Greek relations and forcing Turkey to concede every time. This line of events have been broken in the case of Cyprus and the UN Secretary General (international community) had to come out with a more or less balanced plan, that would although require a lot of goodwill on the Turkish side,could be acceptable to both sides. The chance has been rejected by the Greeks (sorry Greek Cypriots, or was it Cypriots? :-) thinking that they will get what they want, as ever, without effort, thanks to their older brothers. However they have forgotten the fact that now in that area Turkey is the major power broker and no serious country will risk losing Turkey's support in critical international affairs only to make the Greeks happy. That historical era is long bigone, forever... E4024 (talk) 23:10, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Futures

This article is about the history of the Cyprus dispute. It does not predict what happens in the future. See WP:CRYSTAL. Do not make statements that predict the future or offer a "percentage chance" of what might happen in the future.  Nipsonanomhmata  10:18, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

• Existence of observers suggesting partition is not an opinion. This is reality. This is given in Oxford University Press book, April 2011.Belgesellik45 (talk) 10:56, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages does not do futures. See WP:CRYSTAL. It is not a historical event. It doesn't make a difference how good the reference is or how good they are at predicting futures. Until it actually happens it is only hearsay.  Nipsonanomhmata  12:03, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Existence of observers suggesting partition is not something belonging to future; "Existence of observers suggesting partition" is PRESENT. "Existence of observers inceasingly suggesting partition" is not a prediction; This is a fact (as emphasized by the Neutral Source: Oxford University Press Book written by the neutral UN Special Advisor on Cyprus).Belgesellik45 (talk) 12:32, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't matter what existing observers speculate when they are speculating about the future. Nor is a Misplaced Pages article an opportunity for the Economist to speculate on what might or might not happen because it is still speculation:

"The chance of a settlement to end the division of Cyprus in 2011-2015 is only 20% (Economist Intelligence Unit)."  Nipsonanomhmata  13:01, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

It is not Misplaced Pages speculating the future, but it is other reliable institutions. We even have articles on speculations. --Seksen (talk) 17:40, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

It is obvious that Misplaced Pages is not doing the speculation. It is the Economist that is doing the speculation. It still fails to pass WP:CRYSTAL.  Nipsonanomhmata  17:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Existing observers SUGGEST about the PRESENT CASE; they do NOT SPECULATE about the future. One cannot qualify the suggestions about a particular topic as speculation. If for a while, we accepted the sentence with "chance", then why did also delete the UN Special Advisors information on the existence of observers? There is no chance in the existence of people.Belgesellik45 (talk) 20:15, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Dr. K reverted based on "WP:OR" (original research). Belgesellik45 (talk) 20:35, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Dr. K., "many observers" is not my claim. "many observers" is written in the book pressed by Oxford University Press book, April 2011 written by James Ker-Lindsay (UN Secretary-General's Special Advisor on Cyprus). Do I have to still show the list of many observers?Belgesellik45 (talk) 20:39, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

"The Cyprus Problem: What Everyone Needs to Know" (Product Description)

For nearly 60 years--from its uprising against British rule in the 1950s, to the bloody civil war between Greek and Turkish Cypriots in the 1960s, the Turkish invasion of Cyprus in the 1970s, and the United Nation's ongoing 30-year effort to reunite the island--the tiny Mediterranean nation of Cyprus has taken a disproportionate share of the international spotlight. And while it has been often in the news, accurate and impartial information on the conflict has been nearly impossible to obtain.

In The Cyprus Problem, James Ker-Lindsay--recently appointed as expert advisor to the UN Secretary-General's Special Advisor on Cyprus--offers an incisive, even-handed account of the conflict. Ker-Lindsay covers all aspects of the Cyprus problem, placing it in historical context, addressing the situation as it now stands, and looking toward its possible resolution. The book begins with the origins of the Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities as well as the other indigenous communities on the island (Maronites, Latin, Armenians, and Gypsies). Ker-Lindsay then examines the tensions that emerged between the Greek and Turkish Cypriots after independence in 1960 and the complex constitutional provisions and international treaties designed to safeguard the new state. He pays special attention to the Turkish invasion in 1974 and the subsequent efforts by the UN and the international community to reunite Cyprus. The book's final two chapters address a host of pressing issues that divide the two Cypriot communities, including key concerns over property, refugee returns, and the repatriation of settlers. Ker-Lindsay concludes by considering whether PARTITION really is the best solution, AS MANY OBSERVERS INCREASINGLY SUGGEST.

Written by a leading expert, The Cyprus Problem brings much needed clarity and understanding to a conflict that has confounded observers and participants alike for decades. About the Author

James Ker-Lindsay is the Eurobank EFG Senior Research Fellow on the Politics of South East Europe at the London School of Economics. He is the author of Crisis and Conciliation: A Year of Rapprochement Between Greece and Turkey and EU Accession and UN Peacemaking in Cyprus. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Belgesellik45 (talk • contribs) 20:43, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Many Observers

• Hugo Gobbi (Former United Nations Secretary General's Special Representative on Cyprus): Cyprus Mail - February 26, 1996 "Partition may be the only solution" is written in "Hugo Gobbi's book: Rethinking Cyprus".

Page17: "After the failure of the Boutros-Ghali initiative, Gobbi (1996) viewed ‘separation’ as the best solution for Cyprus."

• James Ker-Lindsay (expert advisor to UN Special Advisor on Cyprus) (03.Sep.2007): An arch-populist in word and deed, Matsakis's comments are actually a far more realistic reflection of Cypriot thinking than many of the established political leaders would like to admit. Of course, partition would not be an immediate panacea, nor could it come about overnight. It would require negotiations to settle a number of outstanding issues.
• Dr. Michael Moran (Sussex University): "In the context of my book, for unification and solution, the necessity to existence of two distinct states is defended"
• Riz Khan (Al-Jazeera) (18.Nov.2010): "Cyprus: time for formal partition? If Greek and Turkish Cypriot leaders cannot agree on reunification, is a two-state island the only solution?"
• Jack Straw (UK's foreign secretary) (08.Nov.2010): "Cyprus should be partitioned"
• William Chislett (Real Instituto Elcano, Spain) (05.Jul.2010): "Cyprus: Time for a Negotiated Partition?"

Many Observers of Cyprus island originated

• Marios Matsakis (Greek Cypriot MEP in European Parliament): "The unmentionable solution - part 2" (James Ker-Lindsay, expert advisor to UN Sp Ad on Cyp):

..Marios Matsakis..broke new ground on the debate about the Cyprus problem when he suggested that partition was perhaps a better option.

• Hermes Solomon (A Greek Cypriot columnist, Cyprus Mail): "A permanent partition"
• Loucas Charalambous (A Greek Cypriot columnist, Cyprus Mail) "Christofias unforgivable crimes make partition the only solution"
• Nicola Solomonides (A Greek Cypriot academician) "One state or Two? The search for a solution to the Cyprus problem" "However, an acknowledged two-state solution may be unavoidable. It would naturally involve partition, predictably along similar lines to those which already exist, and measures would need to be taken regarding the issue of property."
• Rauf Denktas (Founder of Northern Cyprus): "Cyprus Problem Will Be Solved When The Existence Of Two Separate States"

It does not make any difference how many observers think that partition is the best solution for Cyprus. The fact remains that it remains speculation until it happens. This observation does not meet the WP:CRYSTAL standard and therefore should not be part of this article. Moreover, the columnists of the Cyprus Mail, can only be described as propaganda-merchants that favor Turkey and British POV and they are doing no favors for Cypriots who gain nothing from partition. Partition is an unjust solution which just re-enforces the illegal apartheid solution inflicted by the Republic of Turkey. Your intentions clearly dissipate propaganda that legitimizes this unjust, apartheid solution.  Nipsonanomhmata  11:04, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

the Greeks had it coming, for destabilizing in 1974 the constitutional order of the Cyprus Republic, which Turkey, as a guarrantor power was expected to rebalance

Polls

1. Noverna: (March.2007)(on behalf of the Institute for Social and Political Studies): Jean Christou, "ONE THIRD of Greek Cypriots would like to see the two sides separated" 2. KADEM (March.2011): "77.1% of Turkish Cypriots prefer two-country solution in Cyprus island"

Turkey / Cyprus

The Cyprus dispute is between Turkey and Cyprus, not between TC and GC. Both GC and TC are citizens of the Republic of Cyprus per the country's constitution. Reading the decision of the ECHR , Cyprus Vs Turkey, the court held that Turkey exercised effective overall control of northern Cyprus through its military presence there, with the result that its responsibility under the Convention was engaged for the policies and actions of the “TRNC” authorities. In the instant case, the Court stressed that Turkey’s responsibility under the Convention could not be confined to the acts of its own soldiers and officials operating in northern Cyprus but was also engaged by virtue of the acts of the local administration (“the TRNC”), which survived by virtue of Turkish military and other support. 23x2 _φ 18:23, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I also just learned that a people that declared statehood emanating from its own willpover and sovereignty may be considered citizens of another country by a third party court. It is good to be open minded, you learn things everyday. I hope I will never vote for a racist, because I am open minded. BTW it is good to know that all the United Nations Secretaries General were also open minded and used their good offices for realising talks between the Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots in order to solve the Cyprus dispute. Thank God the ECHR, where the so-called Republic of Cyprus is represented all alone, is not a higher organ than the UN, although some people are obsessed with Europe, the same Europe that they have usurped. I know, its my POV. E4024 (talk) 20:51, 8 May 2012 (UTC)

New Section

I just learned how to create a new section in the Talk page. My talk until now is within the related paragraphs began by others. E4024 (talk) 15:45, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

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