Revision as of 21:39, 13 June 2012

Welcome to wikiquette assistance
Wikiquette assistance is a forum where editors who feel they are being treated uncivilly can request assistance. The goal here is to help all parties in a situation come to a mutually agreeable solution. It is designed to function via persuasion, reason, and community support, rather than threats or blocks. Your first resort should be a polite attempt to discuss the problem with the other editor(s). No binding decisions are issued here. If you seek blocks or bans, see WP:ANI instead. Sections older than 5 days archived by MiszaBot II. Click here to purge this page (For help, see Misplaced Pages:Purge) Shortcut WP:WQA Please notify any users involved in a dispute. You may use {{subst:WQA-notice}} to do so.
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Active discussions

Attempt to discredit using sexual orientation as a weapon

• Hypesmasher (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Timtrent (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) - me, my signature is Fiddle Faddle.

• Talk:Suicide of Tyler Clementi (edit | article | history | links | watch | logs)
• Misplaced Pages:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_30#Suicide_of_Tyler_Clementi (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

This editor, Hypesmasher, has chosen to pick up userboxes from my user page and use them here as an attempt to discredit me. I have no idea whether the editor is homophobic, but it appears very much to be a homophobic attack. In such things the perception of the victim is of substantial importance. To pre-empt any criticism of my strong prior suggestion that he had had his fun, I accept that they perhaps should have been different in tone. Nonetheless that is no excuse for what I perceive as a homophobic attack.

I have read WP:COAL and am adhering to it. I judged that any attempt by me to seek to solve this by civil talk page messages would be unproductive, so I have no intention of interacting with this editor again, save to post the alerting template in their talk page. I rarely edit the article in question, and then usually simply to patrol it to delete uncited new 'facts'. I have not contributed to further discussions or edits in either location since this incident, and have chosen to wait until the matter was archived at DRN in order to allow time for any passions to cool. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 07:26, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Lack of response leads us to the inescapable conclusion that the behaviour is expected, unexceptional, and not to be criticised. How disheartening. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 08:25, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

I see nothing to contradict my view. Publicly expressed bias based upon sexuality is obviously acceptable. Currently consensus has been to avoid this topic. Thus it is allowed. Nemine contradicet. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 16:24, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Can you show a diff or at least quote the text rather than having people wade through the lengthy dispute resolution (that's probably why noone responded). IRWolfie- (talk) 15:13, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

Quoted from the archived DRN:

Lastly, editor Fiddle Faddle (who has suggested this change of venue) lists (among other things) on his Userpage...

This user is proudly out of the closet and gay. This user is a supporter of the LGBT community. This user supports equal rights for LGBT people.

These disclosures make me suspicious of Fiddle Faddle's true motives for interfering here and suggesting this disruptive venue change. I suggest that Fiddle Faddle perhaps has a conflict of interest which should disallow him or her from even nominating the AfD for this specific article at this specific point in time.--Hypesmasher (talk) 08:42, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip, and for responding with it :) Fiddle Faddle (talk) 16:47, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

I will limit my comments on this and then withdraw, because my past interactions with Hypesmasher have not been productive. That being said, I cannot remain silent on this issue. In my opinion, Hypesmasher's comments quoted above are completely out of line. To imply that someone should not edit certain Misplaced Pages pages simply because his user page says "this user is proudly out of the closet and gay" and "this user supports equal rights for LGBT people" is a clear violation of WP:NOEDIT. The problem is that one incident of this kind does not rise to the level of requiring a block, and Hypesmasher has repeatedly shown himself to be oppositional and defiant in the face of any suggestion that he modify his behavior in any way. This can clearly be seen by my failed attempts to convince Hypesmasher that you cannot nominate an article for deletion on that article's talk page and by SineBot's repeated attempts to convince Hypesmasher to sign his posts by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of his comments. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:05, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for those thoughts. I do not see this as block material either, and I saw all your attempts to interact with the user came to naught. My hopes in raising the matter here are that hitherto uninvolved editors attempt to guide this user away from the combative route and into the collegiate fold. And that as a matter of some importance he is told that what I perceive to be rampant homophobia has no place here. Further transgressions shoudl be discussed elsewhere and may result in a block, but that is not my concern. I am concerned that he is now advised strongly that his behaviour towards me has been sufficiently out of line to be in breach of our policies here. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 07:16, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

I've put a warning on the editors page that further incivility can lead to RFC/U and arbcom involvement. This also is one step towards meeting the requirements of WP:RFC/U: Before requesting community comment, at least two editors must have contacted the user on their talk page, or the talk pages involved in the dispute, and tried but failed to resolve the problem IRWolfie- (talk) 09:19, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

At one level it must be OK for editors to raise the possibility of a WP:COI with others. In a hypothetical example, if an editor is actively editing the page on the Ruritanian Liberation Front and has {{userbox|Free Ruritania!}} on their user page, we have a right to question their objectivity. But I don't think the logic can simply be rolled out mechanically. I am a man, as my user page makes clear. Do I therefore inevitably have a biased COI if I edit at Men's rights for example? I think the difference is that very few of us will have a position on Ruritanian liberation, so someone who proclaims it loudly is describing themselves as having quite an unusual position. However almost all of us are either male or female - to announce the fact doesn't immediately make us all biased. Similarly, all of us lie at some point on the continuum of sexuality; simply occupying a place on that continuum does not immediately imply a COI. Hypesmasher's unspoken assertion that a gay person would have a COI on this article where a straight person dwould not is untenable. Kim Dent-Brown 09:46, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it is similar to claiming that a Christian has a COI on Religion related articles. IRWolfie- (talk) 09:50, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree that an isolated and civil question about potential COI is acceptable. However I feel one must always consider the context which surrounds the question or statements asserting potential COI. This is why I linked to the DRN rather than simply quoting an excerpt initially. There is a lack of civility and also a hectoring tone in all or almost all of Hypesmasher's conversation there. One might also add that the user name chosen is somewhat combative, though within our policies.

With regard to any actual COI on my part I am certain that there is none, as my editing history shows. My edits reflect a determination to improve articles in many areas of our encyclopaedia. The sexuality of the person, if there be a person, in the article is not a matter which concerns me, though, as a member of a minority I find it of interest from time to time. And a self identified Free Ruritanian, while being asked about neutrality, should make it obvious by their edits that they edit in a neutral manner.

Thanks to RWolfie for the note on the editor's talk page. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 10:28, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

It strikes me that the behaviour I perceive as homophobic could still do with being directly addressed with Hypesmasher. I'm grateful for the other actions. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 07:18, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

Your perceptions are not evidence. Nobody Ent 13:04, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

That is not relevant. What is relevant is that such behaviour causes those perceptions in those people targeted by the words and behaviours exhibited. Such things are both hurtful and harmful. Your statement is of interest, but that is all. Fiddle Faddle (talk) 19:27, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

His perceptions were not presented "as evidence", Nobody Ent. Attempting to characterize them as such is, at best, disingenuous. — UncleBubba  14:38, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Attacks on editors, not issues, at Talk:DOS#DOS is not a multitasking OS

• DOS (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• Asmpgmr (talk · contribs) (previously 67.161.75.212 (talk · contribs))

Mostly at Talk:DOS#DOS_is_not_a_multitasking_OS

This is a highly technical content dispute (What defines a "multitasking" operating system?), but beyond that there are a couple of behavioural issues that have arisen and that are making any real discussion unpleasant, if not impossible.

• "Would you please give it a rest already ? The fact that you do not understand that multitasking operating systems have a task scheduler and continue to incorrectly maintain that DOS is a multitasking OS makes it very clear that you do not have proper technical understanding."
• "Are you going to stop making incorrect statements ?"
• "Wendy, you and Andy simply do not understand and/or refuse to accept the fact (...) You guys really have no idea what you are talking about."
• "You have just proven (actually proven again) that you do not have any idea what you are talking about. "
• "You clearly have no idea what you are talking about from a technical perspective."

I've tried to defuse some of this via article talk, but later comments led to a Canned message at User_talk:Asmpgmr

This is a highly technical issue. Worse than that, it's a subjective matter of opinion. No-one is really disagreeing with Asmpgmr on any technical detail, merely whether whatever it was that DOS did warrants one label or another. Yet within this toxic environment, it's impossible to work towards achieving any of that.

Secondly, we see lots of edits in the history that all boil down to "I disagree with one point in this section, so I'm blanking all of it". That's not the way we're supposed to work here (and usually don't), but in this case it's impossible to do anything about it. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I haven't attacked anyone, I used no foul language and called no one any names. I have stated fact not opinion time and time again and provided links supporting this. That you and the other user choose to reject it is the problem. Yes this is a matter of a lack of technical understanding of DOS, BIOS and multitasking.

As I said on the talk page if you want to make the ludicrous argument that DOS is multitasking operating system then prove it:

• list of alleged DOS Int 21h API function(s) which support multitasking.
• disassembly of the alleged multitasking support code in the DOS kernel of any version of DOS other European MS-DOS 4 which is known to actually support multitasking.
• location of the alleged multitasking code in the DOS kernel (MSDOS.SYS or IBMDOS.COM) which can be independently verified by someone who is familiar with DOS internals and x86 assembly language.

DOS is not a multitasking OS, this is a matter of fact not opinion. Also I would say the worst thing here is putting incorrect information on Misplaced Pages. All I'm doing is making an article which I happen to know a lot about a better article by correcting inaccuracies. Asmpgmr (talk) 16:59, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

By the way Andy Dingley you should not talk about me attacking another user (which I did not) when you did attack another user on your own talk page. I quote from your page to another user Please stop making some really bloody dumb decategorizations - dated 09:03, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Isn't it kind of hypocritical of you to accuse me of attacking users when you made such as statement ? Also it would appear that your arguments are so weak that you now have to resort to making attack claims against me as a last ditch effort. Let me be clear, it is nothing personal. My only intention is to make a Misplaced Pages article which I know something about as clear, concise and accurate as possible. Asmpgmr (talk) 17:22, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

I think it's a terminology issue, rather than a technical one. It's whether what TSR's do and their user access etc constitutes multitasking. Some say 'yes', some say 'no'. The issue is akin to saying 'Multitasking requires X and Y', or 'Multitasking needs only 'X', and 'DOS does at least 'X' but not 'Y'. So the lower bar (X) is that DOS multitasks, the upper bar (X+Y) is that it doesn't. None of the technical examples are shown wrong. Wendy.krieger (talk) 08:18, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

It has been explained to you several times now by myself and other users that DOS is not a multitasking OS and why it is not (no task scheduler) yet you keep arguing about this. What a DOS TSR program does do not constitute what DOS does. DOS is a real mode OS and therefore no mechanisms exist to prevent direct hardware access thus programs are free to do whatever they want. Just because a DOS program provides something does not mean that it is part of DOS itself. Anyway if you want to make the claim that DOS (other than European MS-DOS 4) is a multitasking OS then prove it by providing one of the three things I have requested above. Otherwise please stop arguing endlessly about this. If you want to maintain this position then fine, you are entitled to your own opinion (albeit an incorrect one) but you are not entitled to your own set of facts. Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia and thus about facts not opinions. Asmpgmr (talk) 15:11, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Armbrust

• Armbrust (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• myself

• Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/UEFA Euro 2012 schedule (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

I'm at a loss with regard to Armbrust's behavior in the AfD. He is taking a somewhat belligerent stance, refuses to acknowledge arguments and imho displays overall pointy behavior. First he dismissed most !votes he doesn't agree with out of hand as going against some AADD section (even after having been explicitly explained that this doesn't apply to reasoned !votes). Then, after he was repeatedly asked to stop this, he has now taken to SPA-tagging of IP comments he doesn't agree with. I'm sure he means well, but he is less than communicative nor insightful as to the appearance of his behavior. And his block log reflects a pertinent history. --213.168.108.25 (talk) 16:25, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Volunteer Marek needs to be informed of what a personal attack consists of

• Volunteer Marek (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

• UEFA Euro 2012 (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
• User talk:Volunteer Marek.

I claimed that this editor (and others) were pushing a nationalist agenda. I reverted the wholesale removal of an entire section that made a host country in the tournament look back as vandalism. Editor responded that it was a personal attack when reverting. I commented on the editor's page that the action did not constitute a personal attack to which I tagged the editor responded with a direct personal attack and profanity. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:54, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Accusing others of pushing nationalist POV and vandalism is quite clearly a personal attack. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 21:39, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

X-ray_computed_tomography

• 79.182.215.205 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• jmh649 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

• X-ray_computed_tomography (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

I have contributed to that article, and an other user:Jmh649 deleted my contributions, without discussion, without asking for refs, and without giving time to provide refs, and without stating statements that are not according to rules, and without allowing time to correct them.

I have reverted the deletions, and received a threat that I am edit warring, and that I will be banned.

Upon questioning, the user has deceived me by claiming, that primary sources can't be used at all in medical articles. ("All of the refs supporting this text are primary research papers", "The issue with your additions had to do with the references. The references where simply not appropriate", "The same thing as with all the content in question. It was not supported by proper references.", "If you insist on using primary sources there is really nothing more to discuss.", and "For important medical information we use ideal sources." the last in reply to me saying "It does not state that non ideal sources can't be used".)

The user:Jmh649 does not have professional understanding in the area of the contribution, which he deleted, and after deleting them, he has contributed an error instead (mSv=mGy). This error is contradicted by the sources that are still used in the document. This prove that he have not read and understood the sources. Yet, he allowed himself to delete, without asking questions.

I think, that many of the sources, that back up the deleted contributions were adequate, but the contributions weren't edited in order to remove just inadequate parts, they were deleted in their entirety.

The content is currently being discussed at the article's talk page, and at the DRN, and I was referred here by the DRN, in order to discuss my complaint of unfair conduct.

I think that it is worth mentioning, that in his user profile page, user:jmh649 has stated that he is an ER doctor. An ER's income may be affected by the deletions that user:jmh649 has performed.

• Misplaced Pages dispute resolution