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Administrator EncMstr

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

EncMstr (talk · contribs)

First off EncMstr blocked me giving one of his reasons as 'violating the spirit of WP:3RR' when the record and the comments of administrators herer and here at least said no 3RR occurred.

EncMstr came to this board after he placed his block on me not before hand.

Now as for the violation of WP:INVOLVED. EncMstr made two contributions to the thread I am accused of edit warring over, one of which can't be called anything less than substantial. Only 5 editors were involved in the thread prior to my block, one of the five for just one edit, including EncMstr.

WP:INVOLVED reads 'In general, editors should not act as administrators in cases in which they have been involved. This is because involved administrators may have, or may be seen as having, a conflict of interest in disputes they have been a party to or have strong feelings about. Involvement is generally construed very broadly by the community, to include current or past conflicts with an editor (or editors), and disputes on topics, regardless of the nature, age, or outcome of the dispute.'

Read those bold words.Construed very broadly. Not broadly but Very Broadly. With his contributions being nothing less than substantial to the thread, he is involved.

One administrator concurred on that. Many more didn't. 3RR is very clear cut, this editor and I were on opposite sides of the discussion, and he should known Involved too and he blocked before coming to a board.

This administrator has shown he doesn't know policy, and every administrator whether of 10 days experience or 10 years. The only other alternative is that lost objectivity and to shut me up, used his powers as an administrator to do so. Two mistakes on the same block even if its innocent call into question his ability as an administrator....William 01:41, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

See also Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#request_block_review_of_WilliamJE, and note that I am not an administrator. Nobody Ent 01:55, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I've rolled off a very hasty close tag. Why doesn't the community address the editors' concerns and explain why they're incorrect rather than reactively respond with close tags and talks of boomerangs? Thus far all I've seen is argument by assertion: EncMstr wasn't involved because he wasn't involved. If no one wants to comment, no worries, ClueBot will take care of archiving. Nobody Ent 01:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

If you look at the talk page of the editor, you will see much discussion on the matter, and the conditions that he was unblocked under. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 02:02, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I tried reading the user's talk page, but struggled when they started comparing their block to rape. Someone might want to tell this editor that creating large amounts of unnecessary drama can also lead to blocks, and comparing a block to, um, rape counts as creating large amounts of unnecessary drama. It's also highly offensive. In terms of WP:INVOLVED, it has been suggested that William doesn't understand that particular policy very well. Bunnies! Leave a message 02:14, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Toddst1 has removed a great deal of the offensive material from his talk page, as well as soapboxing off of his user page, the history will have to be used if someone needs a better understanding of the current situation. I had previously notified BWilkins, since he had issued the conditional unblocking. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 02:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• William, contributing to the thread to explain what the policy being discussed actually means does not make one involved. You do not have to revert more than three times to be edit warring. You were in the wrong on the policy you were vehemently arguing about and refused to listen when told that you were. And with your actions after the block you should be counting yourself fortunate that the block was not lengthened. I'd strongly suggest for the good of everybody here, including yourself, that you drop the stick. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 05:06, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• I concur with The Bushranger - I understand your frustration and the feeling that you have to continue to press your point, but from my own personal experience on Wiki, I would encourage you to drop the matter. If you continue down this path, you will get blocked. Even if you are totally correct in your assessments, Wiki is guided by consensus, and if you are on the short side of the stick of the discussion, the best thing to do is tell yourself that this is not worth getting blocked over. Regards, GregJackP Boomer! 05:19, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• I don't think I can add much more than I already did on the OP's talkpage. We don't expand or contract the meaning of WP:INVOLVED - we can ask for clarification. The blocking admin DID ask, and was found to have not contravened that policy. Point final. I don't think I've ever worked alongside the blocking admin, so this is certainly not a circling of the wagons. Drop the stick, back away from the ground-to-a-bloody-pulp carcass, and go and be a good editor. When you get valid interpretation of a policy from third party neutral people, accept it (even if you don't agree with it) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 13:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• (Non admin comment) EncMstr quite rightly came to ANI after they blocked you for a admnin action review because they might have acted incorrectly per WP:INVOLVED. A number of editors, including myself, examined the circumstances leading up to the block and 'per that consensus, EncMstr was determined not to have used their admin privileges in a dispute. EncMstr made an WP:IAR judgement call and the consensus was that they acted correctly to prevent your edit warring. Blackmane (talk) 14:01, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Nobody has explained why if 'construed very broadly' then why it isn't here. What is the threshhold for being involved?
• EncMstr came here, but he never disclosed he was part of the conversation. At least one of you up above has that wrong.
• EncMstr said I did violate 3RR when I didn't but The Bushranger dances around it. People rapped across the knuckles here or more for saying somebody's post was vandalism but the board disagrees.
• EncMstr also violated this policy 'You must notify any user who is the subject of a discussion.' He didn't do that.
• A circling of wagons is being done. A threat of WP:BOOMERANG was made clearly by GregJack above and can be reasonably implied by the writings of at least one other. You write everything off EncMster did and do nothing. Why do you think I've said repeatedly that this board is a joke....William 18:43, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Are you ever grasping at straws. This was your ANI notification (not a blockable offence anyway), so he did notify you. Note that WP:INVOLVED says "an administrator who has interacted with an editor or topic area purely in an administrative role, or whose prior involvement are minor or obvious edits which do not speak to bias, is not involved and is not prevented from acting in an administrative capacity in relation to that editor" ... there's the threshold. He ONLY acted in an administrative role to advise you that the other editor was editing according to policy, and you were not. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 18:52, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Nope he wasn't replying as an administrator. To quote 'I agree with Savidan. Navigation templates serve several purposes: navigation, categorization, organization, context, binding like articles, and highlighting articles needing to be written.' Read those words 'I agree'. He was not there in an admninstrative capacity but as an editor taking part in a debate. As for the redlinks policy, ask The Bushranger what the policy is so far as redlinks go in aviation accidents and incidents templates. He'll tell you like I will, they are a no-no.(Bushranger has deleted those redlinks and I have too) Different wikipedia projects, different policies, but someone come up with where in the Law or Supreme Court project where it says redlinks are fine. So far as I know its never been discussed and if so therefore no policy in those projects. Remember WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS and I even pointed that out to EncMstr. Added comment- A search of the Law projects archives provides absolutely nothing so far as the project's policy on redlinks goes....William 13:31, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Just for the record: I only remove redlinks from templates when the redlinks are deleted articles (and yes, I know this is closed now, but my power was out for 25 hours so I didn't get a chance to respond until now). - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:26, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

@William: I had hoped you would divert the energy expended contesting redlinks in the nav template and protesting being blocked instead to good use—preferably in improving the encyclopedia or improving your personal life.

You were blocked for disruptive editing. In this case you were causing more work for others than you were contributing—a net reduction in progress of the project. Note that discouraging other editors to contribute is sufficient grounds for blocking. Since you have been mostly getting in the faces of administrators, you have been granted leeway—which is seems you are likely to hang yourself with.

Wrong. When did I get in the face of an administrator prior to my blocking? Ok you, but then I didn't know you were an admin. at the time and the only thing I said to you was 'WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS isn't an argument.' That's getting in an administrator's face? The facts if someone would let them, would hang you right there not me....William 13:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

You have been repeatedly told that your interpretation of WP:COI, WP:INVOLVE, WP:3RR, and WP:REDNOT are not in agreement with consensus. What is your reaction? To repeatedly quote the same chapter and verse

Wrong. More than one person said your mention of 3RR was wrong. Here for example. Here is another example.

The chapters and verses I have been citing, are WP's own policies, not the viewpoints of those who are supposed to be administering them. If what it says in WP:REDNOT and WP:INVOLVED aren't to be enforced, they shouldn't be up there.

Now you have made three patently false statements:

• EncMstr ... never disclosed he was part of the conversation. False: I fully disclosed my comments on my second edit here.

• • Wrong. It was your third and not your second edit. And even then when you did admit there could be a WP:INVOLVED issue it came after another editor(not me) had brought that issue up....William 14:03, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• EncMstr said I did violate 3RR: False: I said you violated the spirit of 3RR.

Semantics. If you weren't using 3RR as a reason to block me, you shouldn't have cited it. Spirit isn't a reason for blocking. If you did think I did violate 3rr, as several editors have pointed out, you're wrong.

• EncMstr also violated policy 'You must notify any user who is the subject of a discussion.' . False: I notified you soon after requesting block review. While not instant notification, during the three hours' delay no discussion occurred, and I was unaware that an ANI block review discussion must notify the user. It took me several minutes to determine proper use of {{ANI-notice}}. (I tried to improve that, but it was reverted.) —EncMstr (talk) 19:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Wrong By your own admission you failed to do it for over three hours. The first thing I did after starting this discussion was notify you. That took two minutes Worse you sought rubberstamping of what you did without laying out all the facts at first and notify the offending party.

Right at the top of the page when you enter a new section it says in yellow and bold. 'You must notify any user who is the subject of a discussion. You may use {{subst:ANI-notice} to do so'.

This administrator has shown clearly on more than one occasion he doesn't know the policies of wp that he's been given the authority to administer. Simple policies like 3RR or can't miss notification requirements are apparently beyond his comprehension. He also accuses me of making false statements when even the so called proof of what he is saying I'm doing that says the exact reverse and backs up my accusations....William 13:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• @ William. I'm sorry if you misconstrued my comments. I am not an admin, nor do I think that admins should go after you for bringing up a concern about another admin. I was speaking from my personal experience on Wiki - I have recently been given a second chance after being indef blocked. I too have felt I was right in some cases, and continued to argue against consensus to the point of WP:BATTLEGROUND - and I paid the price. In some of the cases I still think that I was right, but it doesn't matter - the consensus of editors and admins felt differently, and I should have dropped the stick. I was merely trying to say that even if you're right, is it worth it? BTW, BWilkins tried to give me good advice at the time I kept pursuing the issue, but I ignored it to my regret - I hope that you will not make the mistake that I did. Regards, GregJackP Boomer! 02:12, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

William, just stop. You're making an embarrassment of yourself by dragging this out. You are not going to resolve this by continually arguing the point. When everyone is telling you you're wrong, it should make you stop and consider you might be wrong. — The Hand That Feeds You: 16:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Sometimes, a person is simply mistaken. This has been handled in a previous ANI that the admin brought themselves, on your talk page, and now here. Time to drop the stick, as this is not productive, arguably unproductive, and it is best to stop before it becomes disruptive. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 16:23, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm going to be a bit bold and close this before the pile on gets any more serious. Hopefully, WIlliamJE takes the hint. Blackmane (talk) 22:31, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Proposed restrictions for User:Crzyclarks

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Crzyclarks (talk · contribs) has now obtained 3 blocks for edit warring across a series of articles related to sexuality and marriage - based on the latest report against them on WP:AN/3RR, they are likely about to get their fourth. They show significant ownership issues, and WP:TE on these topics as a whole.

After their last block, it was suggested that they "self-ban from any article related to marriage or sexuality, broadly construed. You should also restrict yourself to WP:1RR for a few months. If not, I highly expect your next block to be indefinite". Of course, they went right back to those topics AND edit-warring

In order to prevent the obvious indef, I propose a 6 months editing restriction as follows:

User:Crzyclarks may not edit any article related to sexuality or marriage (broadly construed) for 6 months. In addition, they are restricted to to WP:1RR on all Misplaced Pages pages for the same 6 months. Any violations will lead to an indefinite block

• Support as proposer (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 16:04, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• Support per --~Knowz 16:10, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Actually I honestly wonder if even 6 months is enough considering how the user in question acts. >_> --~Knowz 16:11, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• Support as the only way the editor is not going to end up indef blocked, which is where my finger has been hovering for much of today - the two further warnings on their talk page have been ignored. Black Kite (talk) 16:13, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• Support as one last chance for an editor who refuses to listen - though I expect it will only delay their indef block by 6 months. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:17, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• Oppose Am I allowed to do that lol? If it wasn't for the lack of neutrality in some of the edits I was reverting, I wouldn't be editing these articles as I have no interest in them. I think it would be best to look at the content of my edits and decide if I am biased when it comes to these articles. I was reverting one editor that caused this block discussion which doesn't seem right. Crzyclarks (talk) 16:27, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Well in that case, if you don't have any interest in those topics, a ban from them won't be a problem for you. Black Kite (talk) 16:40, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
  • If the topics had more neutral editors it wouldn't be a problem. Again, if you compare what I was reverting or adding, I think it's pretty obvious. Crzyclarks (talk) 16:45, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• Your comments show a fundamental misunderstanding about policy. Edit-warring is not permitted. Therefore, your content justifications, even if true, are of no assistance to you. Just out of curiosity, which would you prefer, an indefinite block or the proposed topic ban? Your three blocks for edit-warring have been of increasing durations (24h, 48h, one week), which is normal, and as BWilkins stated above, you're headed for an indefinite block.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:00, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• Well my main defence is that this block discussion is a result of 3 reverts against a single editor, which was justified based on content. He's not facing an edit warring discussion, even though neither of us broke the 3RR and were only reverting each other. Topic ban would be better. Crzyclarks (talk) 17:06, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• There are two ways for being blocked per 3RR, one is to literally breach it by doing 4 reverts in 24 hours, and the other is to edit-war but without a technical breach based on number. In addition, once you've been blocked for edit-warring, if you come back and resume your activity, even without a breach, you'll probably be blocked (you didn't learn your lesson the first time). I looked at the June 14 marriage block, and you did more than 3 reverts in 24 hours, so that block was a technical breach.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:14, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• You appear to have forgotten that you have also been edit-warring today at Homosexual recruitment. Black Kite (talk) 17:28, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• So far, three reverts of the same material despite being reverted by two different editors. And over something really small. You have made about 250 edits to article space since your first edit in March of this year. Perhaps you should be editing less controversial articles.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:43, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• Re "my main defence is that this block discussion is a result of 3 reverts against a single editor, which was justified based on content." - "My content version is right" is never a valid justification for edit-warring over a content dispute, and if you keep insisting that it is despite being told otherwise by a number of people and having been blocked 3 times for edit warring, then one way or another you will not be editing here. It really is that simple. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:48, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support per proposer and stated preference of Crzyclarks.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:16, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
• Comment. I propose adding to the ban the following language: "Crzyclarks shall maintain the text of the ban and a link to the discussion at the top of his user page until the ban has expired." We did that in a recent ban (I suggested it) because we don't do a good job keeping track of bans. This makes it clear to any other editor what's going on.--Bbb23 (talk) 17:46, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• I was working on some common restrictions-notification templates at one time ... I've always forced agree-to restrictions to be posted at the top of their talkpage (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 19:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• Not sure what you mean by "agree-to restrictions" - I assume you mean a voluntary ban? If so, I don't see why it should be so limited. In any event, it'd be great if you resurrected your template work so we could have something standardized. I prefer posting it on the editor's user page, but I can see arguments in favor of the Talk page (maybe both?). Best would be a technical implementation to track bans, but that's a bigger change. I have it on my list to propose it, but I haven't gotten to it yet.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:53, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• We'll take it offline, but there is a simple solution, and it has to do with creating a fully-protected page called User:WhateverName/Restrictions, and adding categories such as "Users under imposed restrictions" or "Users under voluntary restrictions" where needed :-) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 20:04, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support — per Bwilkins and I recommend that Crzyclarks keep the ban notice visible, as Bbb23 suggests. EdJohnston (talk) 17:56, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

This block discussion is from my reverts against one editor, not two. The current wording is different to the edits of both of us, so not really reverting my edit. I thought I may as well add that the content is clearly valid, but it is really that the reverts were against only one editor, not just that I'm right. I haven't been edit-warring at homosexual recruitment. There was a consensus until he decided to chime in after I reverted his revert. Crzyclarks (talk) 19:24, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

The number of editors you are edit warring against is irrelevant - you must not edit war against even one editor. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 19:36, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support - Crzyclarks does not seem to get it at all. They appear unwilling to stop the edit warring on their own so we need to stop them. GB fan 19:43, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't see why my reverts are evil, but his are perfectly justified. His edit was the one that changed content from the stable version. I reverted that, then he reverted me, so I left the content in that he wanted, but also added another sourced statistic. He decided to revert...etc, and now we're here. Crzyclarks (talk) 19:44, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Yours are worse because it is quite apparent that your previous blocks haven't taught you to stop edit warring. Regardless of the appropriateness (or lack thereof) of others' actions, would you say that your recent behavior constitutes edit warring? CityOfSilver 19:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. His edit warring is not OK either - but the reason you are here facing a ban and he isn't is because he is not the one who has had three blocks for edit warring and come back from each one to immediately resume edit warring. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 20:01, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support: Ban as proposed (though I would prefer indef) and notice as proposed by Bbb23. Severe case of IDHT and DEADHORSE despite three blocks and numerous warnings indicates that Crzyclarks is unable to constructively collaborate with other editors in this subject area. Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 19:56, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't know if I would call this edit warring, as it was with just one editor and I stuck to the 3RR. But the reason why it's at this level and the other editor's reverts doesn't seem to matter is because of the previous blocks. The first block doesn't seem valid, as I was reverting OR, specifically synthesising sources. The second block, yes. The third block, no. Crzyclarks (talk) 20:37, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

As was stated earlier, the number of editors that are on the other side does not matter it is still edit warring whther it it is one or three. Reverting OR is not one of the the exceptions to edit warring in policy. GB fan 21:00, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

The basic concepts is bold, revert, discuss not bold, revert, revert, revert, revert... You're simply being held to that requirement. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 21:17, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, for this conflict that I'm being held into account for, the other person did the bold and I did the revert, then he just did a revert. Crzyclarks (talk) 21:27, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Pardon my language, but if you're not going to actually read the policy on edit-warring, then you're probably better off just shutting the fuck up, as you're not helping yourself (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 23:20, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Why is it that so many editors at ANI insist on shooting themselves in the foot? Instead of repeatedly trying to avoid responsibility and shift the blame onto others, why not just accept responsibility for your actions? You're not going to avoid a topic ban at this point, but you might avoid convincing us that Dominus Vodisdu is correct and that you should be blocked indefinitely now.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:34, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support - the editor's continuing WP:IDHT just makes the need for this all the more pressing. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:28, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I only mentioned it because you brought up bold, revert, discuss. Crzyclarks (talk) 23:44, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

"the other person did the bold and I did the revert, then he just did a revert" - that does not entitle you to yet another revert. Two wrongs don't make a right; it's not BRRRD. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 23:54, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Fine, I'll change my position to support. I can't wait and deal with POV pushers on the discussion page for each biased edit; and there are a lot of those on this topic. Crzyclarks (talk) 00:05, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't even understand what your second sentence means. That said, can someone please impose the ban and close this?--Bbb23 (talk) 00:33, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I think he's saying that he is not prepared to follow Misplaced Pages's requirement that he discuss disputed content on the talk page and wait for consensus. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 10:46, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm saying that I can't edit these articles if I get banned for every two reverts I do. Crzyclarks (talk) 02:24, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

No, you can't edit them if you keep edit-warring over them - that's the whole point! If you don't like that - you don't edit them! -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:28, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support Even a quick look at the editor's talk page indicates change is unlikely. Taroaldo (talk) 00:49, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I removed the pages part of the topic from my watchlist and I won't edit them anymore. Crzyclarks (talk) 02:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• (note to closing admin: please don't forget to log the community-placed restrictions here) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Strong oppose: This is a new editor who is having obvious difficulty navigating the labyrinth of WP policies. He has stepped on a few landmines in trying to understand 3RR and EW. And now the Draconian injustice of ANI is about to fall on his neck. To mistreat yet another newbie does nothing for editor retention. The issues identified here could be easily remedied by guidance from an experienced editor--not a kick in the ass--but it is much easier to crucify him than to invest time in developing them. This editor should be offered mentorship instead of onerous oppression. – Lionel 21:59, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Then you'll be quite welcome to mentor him during the 6 months :-) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 23:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support. To classify this activist as a confused newbie, needing time to learn to navigate the wiki better, is to ignore his non-neutral approach to Misplaced Pages—his effort to promote one viewpoint and push down any other. We do not need this kind of editor, ever. Binksternet (talk) 22:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd like you to provide some examples in which I haven't been neutral in my editing. Crzyclarks (talk) 23:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this matters, but I'd like to extend that offer to everybody else. Crzyclarks (talk) 00:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

How about this edit, Crzyclarks inserts content from Family Research Council website, which suggests that "many homosexuals have hundreds of lifetime partners". Content was simply copied from FRC website.--В и к и T 13:22, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I already explained that on the talk page and you know it. Crzyclarks (talk) 13:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support. This user has made it clear that they refuse to accept consensus and would rather impose their POV onto articles to balance them. You know, this user reminds quite a bit of the way NYyankees51 edited controversial subjects. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.75.125.136 (talk) 17:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
• Support six month topic ban or indefinite block. Prompted by "This just in" below, I tried to get an overview and quickly saw that the user is one of those who cannot collaborate: if they cannot see a written rule that explicitly prohibits something they want to do, they do it and repeat it because they are right. Johnuniq (talk) 00:00, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

This just in

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Update Just to top off the ridiculousness of it all ... Crzyclarks been on a path of disruption all morning on articles he's about to be topic-banned from. He's returned to edit-warring, and launched a swath of RFC's. I have indeffed for disruption at this point in time. Here's the question: do we finish of these restrictions, which would apply should they be ever be permitted to edit Misplaced Pages again? Do we continue with the indef and let this discussion drop? Do we switch gears to a site ban discussion? ✉→ BWilkins ←✎ 18:11, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I guess it would be best to cash in our chips and have the topic ban finalized, perhaps with a request to the closing admistrator to extend it to indefinite in light of the user's last minute disruptive spree. It's pretty apparent that this user will never "get it". Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 18:30, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Let's not put the cart before the equine. We don't know if the topic ban will garner enough support.– Lionel 22:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

We don't know what?? (✉→BWilkins←✎) 22:52, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Lionel, with the exception of you and Crzyclarks, the support was unanimous. I note that the editor is now avoiding the block on his talk page by posting there as an IP. The guy can't stop.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:10, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Disruption at user:Leontopodium alpinum

I say there are IP's trolling at Leontopodium alpinum (talk · contribs). What say y'all? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 20:59, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I see nothing disruptive with the edit. I felt that to remove it was not for you to do...so I restored it. Thank you. 2605:AC00:F000:102:206:4FFF:FE61:92B5 (talk) 21:06, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

We'll let the admins decide what to do, if anything. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:10, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

My guess is the IP's trolling of personal attacks on another editor are a result of that editor's own talk page being semi-protected. Edelweiss, meanwhile, has been inactive for almost a week, so removing IPs' trolling from his page seemed courteous. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:17, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Your canvassing isn't helping, please let the matter be resolved here. 2605:AC00:F000:102:206:4FFF:FE61:92B5 (talk) 21:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I reported your other IP at AIV first, then you started disrupting things. So I reported y'all here as well, and meanwhile asked for protection of Edelweiss' page, to prevent you and the the other IP from trying to rekindle an argument from a week ago. Various admins patrol those various pages, so whichever runs across this first will hopefully semi-protect the page, and maybe put your IP's on ice as a bonus. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Comment. The IPs very civil, but pointy, pleas for help regarding assistance need to stop. At some some point it will take on the appearance of harrasment. The matter has already been brought up here. It may not have been addressed to your satisfaction and that's a shame, but there you have it. Tiderolls 21:24, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

• The IP is trying to restart an argument from a week ago. That qualifies as trolling. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 21:26, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I have restored a comment to a user page, which I think was the correct thing to do. I did not see anything "Trolling" about it. I have also tried to talk with Baseball Bugs about it, but he keeps jumping from page to page with his complaint. This is confusing, I will watch only comments here for now. 2605:AC00:F000:102:206:4FFF:FE61:92B5 (talk) 21:32, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

The comments are pretty obviously trolling, bringing up a long-dead argument and filing frivolous admin board claims. And 2605, Bugs removed the talk page comment, then came to ANI as he should have done. Your accusations he's "jumping from page to page" are not correct. 74.192.253.69 (talk) 21:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

I should also point out that the IP in question is being patently dishonest in his commentary. I got pinged by him here, and you'll note the comment includes "...reverting valid, sourced information..." (emphasis added) in his civil but pointy (good term, Tide) comments. But let's go look at the diffs in question. If there's a source in there, my Magic Eye can't find it... - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 22:13, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Technical question: I have to figure those two IP's are the same guy. How does one jump for a "classic" IP style to the new style? Or is that even possible? ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:16, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

Different ISPs is my uneducated guess. Tiderolls 22:21, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

For example one may have an IPV6 IP on your desktop, and a "standard" IP when you pick up your smartphone. Black Kite (talk) 22:23, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

One seems to be in Poland and one in Canada according to whois - this suggests it may not be the same person.Nigel Ish (talk) 22:35, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

And there appears to be a difference in level of knowledge of English. It's just odd that the IPv6 jumped into this as if he had some personal interest in it. Dave1185 and I kind of watch out for each other. No telling where the IPv6 guy figures into this. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 22:39, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

As an aside, do we know that this editor is male? It seems common around here to assume that other editors are male. Where gender is not certain, "they" is a perfectly good pronoun. bobrayner (talk) 00:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

LOTA dislikes your puny pronouns. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 00:55, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

My goodness, that's just like a young Tuetun! Dreadstar ☥ 04:40, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

"They" can unintentionally connotate sock puppetry or meat puppetry. Male pronouns tend to be used for simplicity's sake, given the statistical likelihood an unidentified editor will be male. — The Hand That Feeds You: 21:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I learned "traditional" grammar rules, and I still typically use "he" as a default (as per your explanation) unless there is evidence to the contrary. I sometimes use "they" when there seems to be some doubt. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:58, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate to not bring up old ANI stuff, but please don't remove comments from my talk page. The IP editor made a civil comment in any case. Leontopodium alpinum (talk) 13:07, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

And please don't semi-protect my talk page. Leontopodium alpinum (talk) 13:12, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

It might surprise you to know that registered editors will watch out for each other - even ones they have disagreements with. As regards the IP's comment - no, it was not civil; it was nothing but trolling, an attempt at baiting; and in case you hadn't noticed, that IP has since been put on ice for the next 3 years. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:18, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Didn't see the history of this user before I made my comment. Still I would prefer not to be semi-protected and to not have comments removed from my page, but I see you had a positive intent in cleaning up my talk space now. Thanks for the look-out. Leontopodium alpinum (talk) 23:28, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

They had already denied my request for page protection - and even if they had granted it, you could easily have had it rescinded. In any case, you're currently unprotected. And if the skeeters start to get to you, or if the IP's continue to try to provoke an edit war on your page, you can always go to WP:RFPP and ask for protection. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 23:38, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Acadēmica Orientālis/formerly Miradre

Acadēmica_Orientālis has a history as an SPA pushing a pov that has it that certain races are biologically inferior than others regarding intelligence and propensity to commit crimes. Following an editing restriction he expanded his scope to articles generally related to question of biological influence on criminal behavior and intelligence. In the past month or so I have looked at his contributions to three different articles (two had him as main contributor) in which it has been painfully clear that he is not working neutrally but selectively choosing those sources that argue in favor of the the viewpoint that social behavior is determined by biology - completely ignoring opposing viewpoints (of which there are always many as the nature/nurture question is generally contentious, and particularly in the case of crime and psychopathology). The articles are Racism, Biology and political orientation, Biosocial criminology (also note the relative weightinh og "environmental" and biological/genetic in the other article he has recently worked on Psychopathy) (see also his past contributions to Race and crime, Correlates of crime, Imprinted brain theory and the related talkpages). I am not arguing that this bio-centric viewpoint should not be represented in wikipedia, because it obviously should. But I don't think it is in the interest of wikipedia to allow Academic Orientalis to repeatedly create lopsided biased content related to this topic. I would like to assume good faith, for example assuming that Academica Orientalis is not familiar with the fact that the literature he repeatedly inserts into articles is only one side of a large debate, but unfortunately at this point this would not make sense since he has been told multiple times, and even sanctioned for tendentious editing. I think the only sensible course of action is to restrict him from editing in nature/nurture related articles broadly construed (his other recent interest is science and technology in China - I haven't heard of problems with his editing there). In my mind the issue is comparable to the time when a user had the unfortunate habit of writing articles about antisemitic canards without being able to write those articles neutrally. He was stopped from doing that and he was encouraged to start editing in other areas and has since been a useful contributor. I have hope that the same could be the same for Acadēmica_Orientālis if he is restricted from writing about the particular topic regarding which he is clearly incapable of giving a balanced coverage.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 00:30, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Maunus's argument is rather unclear. But I have repeatedly stated that I will avoid race and intelligence articles except some occasional talk page comments and so I have for many months. Maunus's strangely takes up a few not objectionable talk page comments on the racism page a long time ago as evidence for something. What is unclear. The question of nature/nuture in various other articles I have contributed significantly to is a content dispute where Maunus has a strong personal POV. It is unfortunate that Maunus tries to "win" his content dispute with me this way. No evidence of any wrongdoing whatsoever has been presented by Maunus. Academica Orientalis (talk) 00:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I am not trying to "win a content dispute" - I am trying to avoid having to follow you around balancing your articles in the future, in effect preempting future content disputes, except its not really a dispute since you usually don't try to resist your articles becoming neutral you just don't help doing it.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:29, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

What you are describing are content disputes. Academica Orientalis (talk) 01:33, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

First, talk pages count. Second, what about this edit, which actually succeeded a tug of war with others about your previous edits?--Bbb23 (talk) 01:00, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Not sure what your point is. My talk page comments contained nothing objectionable. I have avoided editing R&I article contents for more than half a year now. Your diff is about a content dispute unrelated to R&I. The content dispute is currently discussed on the talk page and elsewhere. Academica Orientalis (talk) 01:11, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The problems were summarised fairly well a year ago by EdJohnston and by Aprock here at WP:AE. Not much seems to have changed. The problems are not specifically with R&I. Mathsci (talk) 01:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

When accused of violating the ban, there appears to be a refrain (then and now) by AC that the material he is editing is not related to R&I. His response that Talk pages are irrelevant is similarly ban-evasive.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:24, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I am not under any topic ban. As stated I do not want to participate anymore in the R&I dispute with Maunus, Mathsci, and other, and have voluntarily avoided these articles for more than half a year except some occasional talk page comments. Mathsci's links are almost a year old. I repeat that no evidence of any wrongdoing has been presented. This is an attempt to use ANI to win a content dispute. Academica Orientalis (talk) 01:26, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Whether you are currently under a ban is only relevant in terms of the sanctions that may be imposed on you through this discussion. Your arguments are evasive and sly and don't really address the issues. If I, without any previous knowledge of you, can see that, you can imagine what others more familiar with your history will think. If you want to help yourself, I suggest you try a different approach.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) EdJohnston wrote, "Regardless of how one analyzes the topic of evolutionary psychology, Miradre's general approach to collaboration on Misplaced Pages is so poor that a lengthy block for disruptive editing would have been equally well justified. There is doubt in my mind whether Miradre's brand of zealous advocacy has any prospect of improving the encyclopedia. (The 3RR thread I cited above shows what happens when his edits encounter opposition). If Miradre's attitude remains unchanged when his block expires, which seems likely, the community will face the question of whether there is any value in letting him return to editing." Nothing to do with R&I, just WP:DE. Mathsci (talk) 01:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Again, you are linking to one person's view which is almost one year old. I have not wish to be further involved in the R&I dispute with you and Mathsci which is why I have voluntarily avoided the topic. I will do so also in the future. I have instead contributed to many other articles for which I have received praise. I repeat. No evidence of wrongdoing has been presented. This is a content dispute. Academica Orientalis (talk) 01:45, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• I am not accusing Academica Orientalis of evading a ban, I don't think he is currently under one. I am accusing him of tendentious editing, which is very difficult to support with difs. But I have demonstrated on the talkpages of Racism, Biosocial criminology and Biology and political orientation that Academica Orientalis repeatedly selects only sources representeing a single viewpoint, frequently twists sources, and sometimes uses weasel phrasing to avoid describing critical views ("there has been criticism of this viewpoint" without describing the criticism or who made it). It really means that it is a huge job for other editors to supply the other half of the argument and rewrite articles to reflect all of the available scholarship. Civil tendentious editing is a huge time drain for other editors, especially when confronted with repetitive IDHT type arguments and total unwillngness to address the problems.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:52, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You have not shown that. I cite sources accurately and include opposing views when I find them including describing the criticisms. You on the other hand have admitted claiming there are problems by citing sources you have not even read! . You have not produced any diff showing wrongdoing. Please do not use ANI for content disputes. Academica Orientalis (talk) 02:01, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Diffs

• In this edit Academica Orientalis includes a statement that "Other see twin studies as reliable.". The context is that AO based the heritability section of the article on a single article by Alford, Funk and Hibbing that used twin studies to determine heritability of political orientation. He included no critiques of the study and did not mention any problems with the method used. There is in fact a large body of literature criticizing twin studies as a source of heritability estimates. I included several sources arguing specifically that Alford et al's conclusions were untenable because of methdological problems - two of them stating unequivocally that twin studies have been abandonded as a source of heritability estimates. When I looked in the article provided by AO in support of twin studies as a source of heritability estimates it said this: "Twin studies of heritability are suggestive of genetic factors in social and political attitudes, but they do not specify the biological or psychological mechanisms that could give rise to ideological differences. Recently, researchers have turned to molecular genetics approaches, which involve sampling subjects’ DNA from blood or saliva, and identifying individual differences, or polymorphisms, in a particular gene (Canli 2009)". Here the authors say the opposite of what AO make them say - they state that twin studies may be suggestive of genetic differences but that they are no longer used by serious researchers to provide heritability estimates. This shows two kinds of problematic behavior by AO 1. failure to attempt to provide a balanced view of the topic he writes about (he cannot claim that he didn't know of the problems with twin studies, or that he didn't know it had been criticized - he knows this very well from his time in R&I) (in essence cherry picking) 2. misrepresentation of sources.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:30, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

A complicated content dispute. Regarding heritability and twin studies in general I linked to the heritability article which discusses the subject in great detail. To replicate all the arguments for and against in every article mentioning heritability is of course not possible. I added a secondary literature review to the section. I agreed on the talk page that some researchers argued twin studies are not accurate for exact numbers but they do have been important for showing that genetics play a role. My source started with "The heritability of human behavioral traits is now well established, due in large measure to classical twin studies." I therefore subsequently changed my text to reflect this which you do not mention. See also this review article for a different view on the subject: Nature Reviews Genetics: . Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:17, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The point is not the issue of content - the point is that: 1. you were aware that the study was controversial and did not state so untill someone made you. 2. you misrepresented the source you did present. If this was a single standing incident it would not be a problem, and i would assume that you would have learned that you ned to include also the opposing view in a major scholarly dispute like this, but unfortunately it isn't. It is a persistent pattern over several years. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:22, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I stated what I was aware of. Regarding the heritability source, see what I wrote previously. Your unsourced claim of persistent pattern is incorrect. I could just as well claim that you have a persistent pattern of being biased in your editing on these subjects. Academica Orientalis (talk) 18:12, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Then you need to be more aware. Especially since people have been making you aware of literature that disagrees with the basic viewpoint expressed in the source for the past several years. I don't buy that excuse -but if I were to assume good faith it would still be an issue of basic WP:COMPETENCE. A wikipedia editor needs to be able to have the mind to realize when a viewpoint is controversial nad requires a balanced treatment. Especially one who has spent so much effort editing controversial topics as you have.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:27, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I added a link the Heritability article discussing the arguments for and against in great detail. To replicate this in every article mentioning heritability is not possible. Regarding competence, how about you actually reading the sources you claim contain important information supporting you. Which you have admitted not doing: ]. That would seem to be a minimum requirement. Academica Orientalis (talk) 19:33, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Please stop lying about those two sources. I have not claimed they support me. I have not cited them. I have suggested you read them since they might provide you with a more nuanced view of the fact, and might enable you to actually cite some of the criticism that your source mentions, but apparently doesn't cite.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:40, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You were listing sources that supposedly should provide information that was supposedly missing in my source without actually having read your own sources! Academica Orientalis (talk) 19:53, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I was providing you a service since you apparently suffer from some kind of handicap when it comes to finding sources that contain information you may disagree with. And I would do it again.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:56, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Nice tactic. So if you disagree with an article you will start filling the talk page with sources which you yourself have not read and demand that the other side must read them since there is a possibility that there may be something in the sources you have not read that will support your views? Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:02, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You refused to provide citations for the criticisms that your own article mentioned, I found articles that are clearly critical of biosocial criminology (indeed the title of one of them is "a critique of biosocial criminology"). But yes, if I happen to know that an article is leaving out significant viewpoints then I will at times provide sources that I believe express those missing viewpoints on the talkpage so that other editors may use them to improve the article, if I don't have time myself. That's not "a tactic" that is called writing a collaborative encyclopedia.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 20:09, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I have certainly stated which review source I have used for my statements. You personally "think" that there are missing criticisms and you "think" that these missing criticisms may be in some sources you have actually not read. Since you do not have the "time" yourself to control your speculations, you demand that someone else should do the work for you. Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:18, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The source you used apparently states there is criticisms, it is not just something I "think" - yet those criticisms are given no shrift at all in the article. That is the problem, and that is why I had to use google to findout what they might be after you refused to provide the sources that i am sure the review source cites. Very collaborative of you.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 14:45, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• In this edit AO adds a mention of the fact that "has sometimes been criticized for ignoring environmental influences". This is of course correct and it would be very useful for the reader to know who made this criticism and where, and based on what arguments. Instead of giving this basic information AO writes: "Biosocial argues that this is incorrect but that on the other hand many sociologically influenced criminological approaches completely ignores the potential role of genetic which means that the results is likely confounded by genetic factors." That is the criticism is only mentioned so that it can be debunked, without giving the reader a chance to even know who is being debunked. When I placed a tag asking for who made the criticism AO said that it was already sourced (to the source debunking the criticism that is), and he did not offer to find it for me. When I googled crtitiques of Biosocial criminology I quickly found a few studies which I presented on the talkpage so that AO could use them to improve the article. Instead he argued that because I hadn't read them my assertation that the article lacked criticism was unfounded (in spite of the fact that he himself had mentioned the existence of criticism, and refused to provide the citation of the critique)·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:38, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Another content dispute. I have on the talk page given the exact quote from which the statement was made. The source does not give further information than what I stated in the article. Have you not read what I wrote on the talk page? Regarding the sources you gave and claim contain relevant critical information, you yourself have admitted that you have not read them! . Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:22, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Again, it is not the specific content here that is the problem, but that fact that you knowlingly did not adequately represent opposing (mainstream) viewpoints. If you don't have access to mainstream sources about a topic don't edit.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:30, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I stated what the source stated on the subject. I have not "knowingly" excluded anything. I have read sources unlike you who have admitted claiming there are arguments missing by citing sources you have not even read! Academica Orientalis (talk) 18:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

So now you are verging into plain untruths. I admitted that I had not read two sources that I added on the talkpage - I have not cited those sources anywhere. Your own source mentioned there was criticisms - that didn't motivate you to look for it. That is at best a competence issue and at worst knowingly omitting the contrary view. You have not admitted to not reading the sources you cite, but if you read the review you introduced then you certainly read it very superficially.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 19:24, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The diff speaks for itself. You mentioned these sources you admit not having read as supporting for your views. I have read the Biosocial Crime source I cited carefully and not stated otherwise. Academica Orientalis (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• This is similar to the above, in that he gratuitously mentions that there has "been various criticisms", but does not mention who made these critiques orexplain what they are, but instead sources the entire paragraph to an article in which the original authors of the controversial study make a rebuttal of criticisms (The study has been shown to be based on flawed data and statistical methods by Buller, David (2005). "The Emperor is Still Under-dressed". Trends in Cognitive Science 11: 508–510.) - but Ao doesn't think this is relevant for this article.

Content dispute. I did not mention any of the specific arguments either for or against since there is a very long Misplaced Pages article (Cinderella effect) dedicated to the subject which was linked to. Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:30, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• This edit is just blatant POV peacockery.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:39, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Content dispute. What the sources states. Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:31, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Here AO removes the only mention of the fact that the mainstream view in criminology still is that most of the causality behind crime is explained by environmental factors. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:50, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Content dispute. In fact, the article starts by stating "contemporary criminology has been dominated by sociological theories". This with a source unlike the completely unsourced material I removed. Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• It seems odd that the claim that noone would have contradicted this claim "Traditional sociologically oriented theories explain relatively little of the variance" which basically states that all other criminologists have got it all wrong. Where is the "traditional" view (also known as mainstyream) represented? ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:53, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Content dispute. This is what the given source states. There was no "traditional" view there on this that I did not include. Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:38, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Exactly. Writing a neutral article requires looking at sources written by...gasp... the other point of view. Basing an article on a single biase source as you routinely have done producess... biased articles.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

If I wanted to write a POV article I would not have mentioned this criticism at all. Your are assuming that there are counter-arguments without proof. Just like you assume that sources you Google contain relevant information without reading them. If there are in fact opposing view, then state them so they can be included. Academica Orientalis (talk) 18:17, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Here we're back to race again (but not IQ). Apparently religious Black people tend to vote liberal. It's probably in their genes. (Ok, this isn't really misconduct since its on a talkpage and he's actually using a maisntream source (but cherry picking a factoid out of table))·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:58, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Content dispute. Secondary source. No mention of IQ. No mention of genes. Talk page comment. No cherry picking.Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:41, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Look at this article edited by AO recently. Notice how anthropology and sociology account for a paragraph each, whereas - evolutionary explanations account for something closer to three screens. One would think that social sciences would have more to say about altruism (of course they do). Ok, AO is not interested in social science and probably shouldn't be forced to write extensively about stuff he's not interested in. But then again isn't every editor responsible at least for maintaining articles in some kind of reasonable weight between viewpoints according to prominence? ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:10, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Content dispute. I edited the area regarding which I have most knowledge. Your description is misleading, there is also a long section on social psychology in the article. If more social science is needed, then please add this. Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:52, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• I could find a lot of similar stuff if i go a few months further back. For example AO's article on Race and crime was stubbified a year ago after the consensus in an afd found the topic notable but the coverage completely lopsided. This apparently didn't deter Ao from writing a bunch of similar ones.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

See no concrete arguments here. Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:56, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Question "He included no critiques of the study and did not mention any problems with the method used." This is more than a solid screenful of text at ANI suggesting we should ban all newbies who don't write at FA or above ? serious ? how do these arguments about an experienced editor not also apply to every new editor that walks through the door ? Penyulap ☏ 20:50, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Because AO has been told multiple times that wikipedia requires neutral article and that what he writes rarely is neutral?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 11:38, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• to ANI thread from july 2011, where AO (then Miradre) got a 3 month topic ban for tendentious editing and editwarring in violation of the R&I arbitration restricitons. (This is the reason an RfC seems unwarranted). For Those who have requested diffs of old school disruption there are quite a few in that thread. Now AO has not been editwarring lately, but I don't see the fundamental change that might have been hoped for in his editing behavior after coming back from the topic ban.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 13:00, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I get the absolute maximum of 3 months for several reverts over a long time period while the person who reported me and who did more reverts during the same extended time period gets nothing at all. See the diffs given for that by me in the link if interested. It seem Maunus have found so little to object to in my current behavior, just the content disputes above, that he must bring up edits almost one year old in a topic I a long time ago stopped editing when he is asked for something more concrete. Academica Orientalis (talk) 13:45, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

The previous topic ban is brought up, not as evidence of current wrongdoing, but to show that this is something that you have been made aware of before, and that an RfCU seems unwarranted given that this is not the first time by far that your editing has attracted negative scrutiny. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 14:01, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I have avoided editing this topic for a long time. No one here has accused me of edit warring. Yet you fail to see any fundamental change? Academica Orientalis (talk) 14:30, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I think you have avoided the topic of R&I (to some extent - except for example your recent tedious appearance at Talk:Racism, where, contrary to sources, you argued that racism should be narrowly defined only as racial discrimination based in a belief of racial superiority (so that the belief itself is not racist unless it motivates discriminatory practices)). But clearly your entire focus on theories that argue for biological determination of human behavior is closely related to R&I (although I do think its outside of the scope) - and your choice of literature is similarly onesided. Thats a quite close correspondence in behavior, although it does seem that you haven't edit warred. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 14:42, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

You are making false and defamatory statements. I have expressly stated that I am against racial superiority beliefs theoretical or practical. You are furthermore arguing that adding evolutionary psychology perspectives to, say, evolutionary approaches to depression, imprinted brain theory, evolutionary economics, sports psychology, or evolutionary aesthetics is closely related to R&I? Academica Orientalis (talk) 15:01, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

You are not reading what I write, I made no characterization of your beliefs. You argued for a definition of the concept of racism that tied it only to racial superiority, in spite of the fact that most sources say that such a belief is not necessary for something to constitute racism. Your proposed definition would mean that for example white supremacy would not be classified as falling under the definition of racism, unless it actually argued for discrimination(which few white supremacists do today). This is obviously not evidence for you sharing any of those views , but it is evidence of you still being involved with the topic of race in a way that is closely tied with the problematics of the R&I arbcom case. I don't think adding material on evolutionary psychology to articles is necessarily related to R&I nor necessarily problematic - it depends entirely on whether the material added promotes the view that mental abilities and characteristics is determined by biology - which I think is clearly related to R&I even when not explicitly mentioning that debate. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 15:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I have never argued for any "definition of the concept of racism that tied it only to racial superiority". To clarify, believing that populations may differ in traits is not equal to beliefs in superiority or discrimination. One may believe that populations differ in alcohol tolerance or lactose tolerance without arguing for discrimination or superiority but rather simply argue that such knowledge will help the groups lacking the lactose or the alcohol tolerance. Regarding the content dispute at "Racism" you changed your own proposed definition numerous times in response to my criticisms demonstrating that it was very constructive. You are now actually arguing that all articles describing research on the genetics of mental traits should be under R&I? Thus also articles like Schizophrenia or Positive psychology should be under R&I even if they do not mention race at all? Academica Orientalis (talk) 16:44, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

No, I don't think that is what I am arguing. I am quite sure I am arguing that it depends on the kind of edit one does to that kind of articles - if the edit gives undue prominence to the hereditarian view then I think that does relate to the R&I dispute (I am not saying I am sure it falls under the sanctions, but the relation is clear). (your argument about lactose tolerance does not seem relevant to the issue at all since presumably no one is arguing that noticing genetic differences between populations is necessarily racist, I know I haven't.) ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:08, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Topic ban

• Support an indefinite topic ban of Acadēmica Orientālis from all nature/nurture related articles, broadly construed. There has been a relentless push by Miradre/Acadēmica Orientālis to use Misplaced Pages to promote the idea that many differences between groups can be explained by the biology of certain races. The relentless WP:CPUSH based on a commitment to use sources from only one side of the debate means it is not possible to sum up the situation with a couple of diffs. One of the many examples can be seen at Talk:Guns, Germs, and Steel#NPOV dispute: Some opposing views removed (and following) to coatrack some R&I views into an article about a book that is only peripherally connected with hereditary effects (search for my comment dated "10:45, 23 February 2012" on that talk page for a quick overview of the book). The above was started by Miradre in July 2011, but related attempts were made by Acadēmica Orientālis in February 2012, see Talk:Guns, Germs, and Steel#Criticism by Rushton removed. There are many other articles where the above is repeated. This editor is interested in only one side of a complex issue, and is damaging articles by introducing POV. Johnuniq (talk) 03:44, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

An infinite topic ban based on what? Some many months old talk page comments in one article? What exactly was objectionable except that I dared disagree with you in that discussion? Should not you also be banned since you were also involved in that talk page discussion if that is a crime? Yet another example of using ANI as a way of winning content disputes.Academica Orientalis (talk) 04:05, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

(To clarify, this was stated before there were any accusatory diffs regarding recent edits)Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:23, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

The claim that I would have been biased regarding the Psychopathy article as stated by Maunus in the initial post is completely ridiculous and outright offensive. Before I started my recent editing there was NO section at all on environmental factors. The article contained statements like "parents cannot be held to fault for their offspring becoming psychopaths, for no amount of good parenting can fix the basic condition, which has genetic causes"! There was no mention of the studies finding that psychopathy can spontaneously improve with age in children. Or studies finding treatment effects. Or that the claim that psychopaths get worse with treatment is likely incorrect. And so on. Academica Orientalis (talk) 04:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

And no change in behavior since the criticism of your actions 23 months ago.... — Arthur Rubin (talk) 19:01, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Did you miss that I have stated that I voluntarily avoid editing R%I articles and have not done so for many months except some talk page comments such as the above several months ago. Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support a topic ban, based on Miradre/AO's fixed POV and attempt to foist this POV on the encyclopedia, per Johnuniq. We cannot allow such POV-pushers to warp our articles. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Diffs showing objectionable behaviors in recent months? Academica Orientalis (talk) 11:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

(To clarify, this was stated before there were any accusatory diffs regarding recent edits)Academica Orientalis (talk) 04:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support topic ban. Misplaced Pages must be neutral, and those who continually seek to subvert that are not here to improve the encyclopedia. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 06:51, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Diffs showing objectionable behaviors in recent months? Academica Orientalis (talk) 11:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

(To clarify, this was stated before there were any accusatory diffs regarding recent edits)04:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support There don't seem to be any problems with his edits related to China. But his addition of content related to biological differences/evolutionary psychology in a vast range of articles (eg Honor killings) too often seems biased, unbalanced and undue. He argues interminably in circles on talk pages over these issues and that is a drain on volunteer time. Mathsci (talk) 10:30, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Diffs showing objectionable behaviors in recent months? Academica Orientalis (talk) 11:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

(To clarify, this was stated before there were any accusatory diffs regarding recent edits)Academica Orientalis (talk) 04:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Almost every comment in the thread is an example. I explained that your single source relating to evolutionary psychology was written by somebody without academic qualifications in the subject (he is a lawyer outside academia). You responded that my statement was an ad hominem attack on the author. You exhaust editors with this kind of circular WP:IDHT argument. Mathsci (talk) 12:22, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You are misrepresenting, selectively quoting, and ignoring the many different arguments I made in this talk page content dispute. Again, show the diffs showing the need for an indefinite ban. Academica Orientalis (talk) 12:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Here are examples from threads on talk pages of multiple articles covered by or related to WP:ARBR&I (I have not picked out individual diffs): Mathsci (talk) 12:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, you have not showed any diff and explained what is supposed to be objectionable with it. You are simply linking to talk page content disputes most of which are very old without explaining what is supposed to violate any policy. Again, show the diff you think show objectionable behavior violating Misplaced Pages policies. You seem to be arguing for a purely political ban for disagreeing with your own POV.Academica Orientalis (talk) 13:01, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The pattern of repetitive WP:IDHT edits seems clear enough, as others have written. It cannot be described by individual diffs. In the example from Honor killings, one article by a non-expert in the subject was used to produce the content. AO did not concede that there might have been a problem with the source. He. continued arguing in circles, as seems to be happening here. Mathsci (talk) 14:03, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

So no concrete evidence can be produced and no specific policy I have violated can be named but I should still be indefinitely banned? Regarding the content dispute with you regarding Honor killings, see the Honor killings talk page discussion. Academica Orientalis (talk) 14:16, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Academica Orientalis dismisses all criticism. Not so long ago—barely a month—Roger Davies already commented that Academica Orientalis had spent a considerable amount of time vociferously supporting a blatant sock troll (Alessandra Napolitano) of a banned user. Their contributions here should be viewed in the light of that. Mathsci (talk) 21:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I have not supported anyone I knew was sock troll. Academica Orientalis (talk) 21:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support I became aware of the topic Biology and political orientation based on a post by another editor to WP:FTN. The editor Acadēmica Orientālis appears determined to push biased content which violates core policies (such as the section discussed here Misplaced Pages:RSN#Biology_and_political_orientation which is clearly based on unreliable sources, but which has not been removed Talk:Biology_and_political_orientation#Unreliable_section because the editor Academica wants the content to stay and "point out that there is controversy and refer to the main article") and to frustrate other editors into submission. IRWolfie- (talk) 10:46, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

No one has produced any diffs showing any objectionable things I have done in recent months but are making accusations without backing. Seems to be a purely political topical ban for my views on a topic I have not edited for many months. Academica Orientalis (talk) 11:10, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

(To clarify, this was stated before there were any accusatory diffs regarding recent edits)Academica Orientalis (talk) 04:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I can transform the above links into diff form if that is preferable. Considering I have not edited in this topic area before now, I don't see how my support could be political (I'm not sure what you mean by that). IRWolfie- (talk) 11:12, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, please show the diffs showing anything I have done in recent months showing the need for an indefinite ban. Academica Orientalis (talk) 11:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I can only respond with diffs corresponding to when I observed your interaction with me and another editor You have resisted the removal of a section based on a primary study of dubious quality (there is agreement in RSN that it's not reliable) based on some dubious arguments:

Bringing in arguments that were never made: "Do you have any evidence for scientific misconduct?"

Arguing that a Journal of American Political Science should be assumed to reliably discuss Genetics .

Arguing that newspaper coverage shows notability (I assume you mean weight) for primary sources in biology rather than coverage in secondary sources.

Denial that the topic is controversial

Arguing that even though acknowledging heritability methods are strongly criticized the section based on the primary study using that method should still be kept:

Arguing to have specific criticisms of heritability methods excluded:

Still want the section kept even though there is a "large and complex controversy"

Arguing that it has not in fact been discredited: but followed by acknowledgement of the non-quantifiable nature of twin studies: , despite exact figures been given in the section.

In summary it's clear you are intent on pushing the source on to the article despite it not being reliable for the claims given. But I think reading the full discussion on the article and RSN demonstrates the point better. IRWolfie- (talk) 12:59, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You are grossly misrepresenting my talk page arguments as anyone can see by reading the diffs and the whole talk page discussion. You are NOT MENTIONING THAT I ADDED A PEER-REVIEWED SECONDARY REVIEW SOURCE to the section. I have not denied that the subject is controversial but claims of a large literature of scientific opposing views needed to be backed up by sources which is what I asked for. Notable scientific controversies are not disallowed from being discussed by any policy as you seem to be arguing. Talk page disagreements on contents are not disallowed. Thanks for making it clear that you want to ban me indefinitely for disagreeing with your own POV on what is a talk page content dispute. Academica Orientalis (talk) 13:08, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

This is also covered in the diffs that I have shown and the link to the article, the journal article itself also mentions why it's not suitable as well (as was already pointed out to you but you appear to have ignored WP:IDHT). IRWolfie- (talk) 13:56, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You have shown no such things. You seem to think that "original paper" = "primary source". That is of course not the case. The peer-reviewed secondary literature reviews I added to the section does no primary research but is reviewing the existing literature. Thanks for again demonstrating that this is about a content dispute and not about violating any Misplaced Pages policies. Academica Orientalis (talk) 14:08, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The review article from nature defends the concept of heritability, not the method of twin studies. In fact it mostly argues that heritability estimates should be based on genetic data even though "classical twin studies" have been useful. It is quite clear that they consider twin studies to be a pre-genomic era kind of method. So why you would include that to support twin studies is odd, and why you seem to think that you deserve praise for having added one more source in defense of the same controversial viewpoint without adding any for the opposite view is even odder.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I am talking about a completely different review article: Regarding the Nature article cannot see any criticisms of twin studies. Do you have a quote? Academica Orientalis (talk) 21:43, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Question where is the disruption ? certainly the editor has an opinion on the topic, this is perfectly ordinary, so they discuss and promote their opinion, this is also quite normal. Where is the edit warring, where is the disruption of process, in short, why is this even at ANI, is there a problem on wikipedia now that no editor may have an opinion ? Please be kind enough to diff some disruptive behavior, so we can all get to the point please. Penyulap ☏ 13:23, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)

I am not claiming "disruption" I am claiming persistant failure to edit neutrally. Everyone is entitled to having an opinion, but when editing we are expected to edit neutrally and balancedly, not merely promote one view on a topic (even though perhaps it is a common occurrence - which doesn't legitimize it). Ani is not just for disruption, it ios also for making decisions about how best to direct community resources, in this case a lot of community resurces will be spent patrolling AO's pages for neutrality if he is allowed to continue editing in this field. Whereas if he is allowed to edit only on other topics community reseources (including AO's efforts) will be directed at something more productive.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 20:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

No, promoting your own opinion is not what wikipedia is for. The disruption is evident in the links I have shown and has effected the articles in real terms, the heritability section has been kept in the article despite the study being completely unreliable and unsuitable. Also see Mathsci's link for example. The editors substantial edits, based on primary studies and newspaper coverage of the studies, pertaining to his POV are clear evidence of actual damage to the encyclopedia. IRWolfie- (talk) 13:45, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Having an opinion is to be human, being surrounded by people with the same opinion leads to a lack of awareness that you do, indeed, have an opinion. Tolerating other people's opinions when they are civil, articulate, and following the rules is what wiki is about. Penyulap ☏ 20:39, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)

No, throwing your opinions out the window and deferring to reliable sources is what wikipedia is about. This is an encyclopedia. IRWolfie- (talk) 21:12, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You are still NOT MENTIONING THAT I ADDED A PEER-REVIEWED SECONDARY REVIEW SOURCE to the section and you are grossly distorting my talk comments. There is not policy against discussing notable scientific controversies. Academica Orientalis (talk) 13:53, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You added a peer reviewed source supporting your original view after you had been shown that you had failed to include a large body of contradictory views. In short your adding the review article after the initial artciel had been challenged only continued the same biased direction that you had begun. At no point did you say "Oh, I guess its right I left out important criticism, let me correct that" what you said was "but I have a counter criticism to all those critical studies". The tendency is clear.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 17:35, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I did not leave out any important criticisms of which I was aware. I linked to heritability article which discusses the concept in great detail including arguments for and against. Replicating this long article everytime heritability is mentioned is not possible. Since the source was challenged, I added a secondary review source I had used elsewhere in the article but not in this particular section. Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:29, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Oppose a topic ban. Despite the queasiness I feel in supporting an editor whose views so strongly conflict with my own, I cannot see anything in the diffs so far provided which give grounds for a ban. Civilly arguing a point, however fringe or oddball, is only disruptive when it moves into repetitive, wall 'o' text trolling which this has not. I see no evidence of unjustified edits to articles, no incivility, no vandalism. This editor may be annoying and frustrating to the majority of editors on articles s/he visits, but that's not sufficient reason for a block, in my opinion. Kim Dent-Brown 14:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The issue here is not his views but the fact that he persistently writes biased articles that do not take into account opposite viewpoints. This kind of persistent tendentious editing is very difficult to show in diffs, but I'll be posting a collection of interpreted diffs. Also no one is talking about a block, but about a topic ban so that the fact that he is unable to edit neutrally n this topic will not create problems for the encyclopedia's coverage of this sensitive issue.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 16:17, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Civil POV pushing is still POV pushing. Arguing a point beyond what is reasonable, and onwards is disruptive and does effect article content (the section based on the unreliable source on heritability is still there, he reverted it back in twice without consensus, his POV push has retained it despite no editors agreeing with his edits). Only after another editor performed significant research did academica indicate there actually was a controversy with the section, his original edits mention none: . All his edits to the page are of this type and will take a lot of work to try and fix, made the more difficult by the editor himself. Topics bans aren't given out just for incivility and vandalism. Civil POV pushers also face topic bans. IRWolfie- (talk) 14:19, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Again, as usual, lots of claims most of which are not supported by any diffs. Sweeping claims regarding all my editing based on a single edit. You are still trying to ignore the reliable secondary review source I added. Heritability is by no means dead today, see this review article in Nature Reviews Genetics: Heritability is controversial, but so is also, say, other scientific debates or political views on various issues and there is no need and possibility to repeat the whole controversy every time the issue is mentioned since we have wikilinks to the main articles. Heritability, including both the general arguments for and against, are discussed in the Heritability article I linked to. Regarding claims that I would generally be biased I will repeat my earlier comments regarding the psychopathy article: Before I started my recent editing there was NO section at all on environmental factors. The article contained statements like "parents cannot be held to fault for their offspring becoming psychopaths, for no amount of good parenting can fix the basic condition, which has genetic causes"! There was no mention of the studies finding that psychopathy can spontaneously improve with age in children. Or studies finding treatment effects. Or that the claim that psychopaths get worse with treatment is likely incorrect. And so on. I urge those interested to examine the article before and after I edited it. Academica Orientalis (talk) 14:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Miradre/Academica Orientalis is sort of the canonical soup-spitter. That sort of behavior isn't obvious in a diff, or even in a single thread, so it's hardly ever deemed "disruptive" in an AN/I setting. I disagree with Kim: I think that if an editor is consistently annoying and frustrating the majority of editors on articles s/he visits, then s/he needs to stop editing those articles. This is a collaborative project, and we don't have unlimited reserves of constructive, cheerful editors to step in and replace those burnt out by dealing with this sort of behavior. I don't see a loss to Misplaced Pages if AO stops editing the topic in question, and I do see a benefit: namely, decreasing the burnout rate among the constructive editors dealing with him/her in that topic area. MastCell  16:04, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

So no concrete evidence can be produced and no specific policy I have violated can be named but I should still be indefinitely banned? It seems like a purely politically motivated ban. I have added a very large amount of material, sourced to secondary academic sources, to numerous evolutionary psychology related articles these past months. Without any objections except on a small minority of them. I deeply resent the claim, given without any evidence, that my editing on the whole is not constructive.Academica Orientalis (talk) 16:18, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

There's a difference between a indefinite ban and a topic ban. Also, it's entirely possible to be a disruptive influence without breaking a single policy, guideline, law, or anything. For instance: let's say that your neighbour buys a shotgun and then sits on his front porch every day holding it, right next to your house and yard where your dog and kids play every afternoon. He hasn't broken a single law, but he's clearly creating a rather uncomfortable environment... - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 17:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I am not holding a shotgun. Another comparison would be a dictatorship where people with opposing views are punished without any evidence of wrongdoing. If you have any concrete evidence of misdoing, then please give the diffs. Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

It is is a purely political ban without any supporting evidence for other wrongdoing, should not this be stated clearly in the policies? Like "genetical/neuroscience/evolutionary psychology views are not allowed regarding certain topics such as politics or crime"? Academica Orientalis (talk) 18:47, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Shotgun ? could we please remain on planet Earth, this is civilized editing, not even socking or reverting, it appears more a case of someone who doesn't look like 'we' do, and, on a worldwide project, that is hardly in harmony with policy. Can anyone show me a disruptive diff, such as reverting or some such ? Penyulap ☏ 20:45, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)

You seem to be confusing a civil POV pusher with someone who engages in edit wars, see a description here of the characteristics: Misplaced Pages:Civil_POV_pushing. That's why he is constantly asking for diffs, because it's hard to impossible to show civil POV pushing in a diff, you need to look at the long term behaviour. IRWolfie- (talk) 21:06, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, please look at my long term behavior regarding articles such as the Psychopathy article where I have as stated above greatly reduced the genetic arguments. Academica Orientalis (talk) 21:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I take very seriously the careful arguments against my oppose above. I completely concede the point that this editor is tendentious and uncollaborative, but manages to stay well on this side of the line of civility, edit warring etc. A good example is the set of exchanges here wherein AO stonewalls all attempts at discussion. In all the talk pages I've viewed, I don't see AO acknowledging that s/he is doing anything wrong or could in any way improve their approach. The same is true of this discussion, wherein AO characterises the whole problem as an extended content dispute. So I fully accept the facts of what folks are complaining about here. I guess my problem is with the remedy. I've had occasional brushes with similar editors and have longed for them to become abusive or start to edit war, just so we can reasonably block them. Usually they do, but what if they don't? Others here are arguing that the disruption AO causes is sufficient to merit a topic ban. I'd take the view that AO's nuisance value is the price we pay for accepting a wide diversity of views here, but if the consensus is that the price is not worth paying I will quite understand. Kim Dent-Brown 21:44, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

That is a very well argued deliberation, and I find your oppose on those grounds to be entirely reasonable.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:59, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I would like that I have added a great deal of evolutionary psychology material to many articles and there have been no opposition to this except in a small minority. The Biology and Political Orientation article seems to have caused an enormous controversy considering the AfD and this ban proposal. If it would help I promise to avoid this article and concentrate on other articles where I think I have added much valuable material without opposition. Academica Orientalis (talk) 22:04, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

It would help if you were to admit that you have failed to give a balanced coverage of topics related to nature/nurture, and that you will take steps to remedy that in the future. And no, I see the same problems with your EP edits - EP is a similar controversial field where a large body of critical literature exists, which I have never seen you take steps to include in your writings.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:24, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Sweeping generalizations without giving evidence. I could just as well argue that you biased in your edits regarding these topics. See the Psychopathy article which I thinks is much better after my edits and which, yes, includes evolutionary psychology criticisms added by me and from which I removed much incorrect pro-biology material. Academica Orientalis (talk) 22:37, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support. All of the diffs above show content problems, but AO seems unable to stop adding questionable material supporting his POV, and deemphasizing material opposing his POV. or to understand what he's doing wrong. All his statements at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Biology and political orientation show this problem, although there, the entire article represents nothing that does not support his POV. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 17:50, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Could you give a diff and explain what was unacceptable? Academica Orientalis (talk) 18:13, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

As I couldn't find one that was acceptable, I see no need for additional diffs. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 18:57, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

If you do not produce any diffs and explain what policy is violated, then how do we know there is a problem and how do I defend myself. An absurd situation. Academica Orientalis (talk) 19:12, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose screen after screen after screen of nonsense at ANI, this is why there are bright lines drawn, so this doesn't happen. The user is causing annoyance by discussing a long list of different new material and many editors are frustrated that this editor doesn't stop trying to add material to articles. It's called wikipedia, and this is what it is for, take up golf you lot, or write a book. Like many things I've seen Johnuniq come up with, this proposal is lacking in any solid foundation and is nothing beyond demagogy, I have come to expect no meat from John unique. Penyulap ☏ 21:14, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)

This is not Johnuniq's proposal but mine. And the problem is not that he adds material, but that he only adds one kind of material and shows no interest in improving his editing to conform with Wp:NPOV. That is not how wikipedia is supposed to work no.

• Oppose: I do not see disruption and I for one am not going to lower the bar for a topic ban to the level of having an unpopular belief system--and the occasional expression of such on talk pages. It would send a chilling message if this becomes the standard threshold for a topic ban.– Lionel 22:07, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

You are misrepresenting the reasoning here. Any and all kinds of beliefs or faiths are completely acceptable for editors to have and argue, but a basic requirement is that we at least demonstrate a willingness to work towards NPOV in collaboration with others. ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 22:21, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

• The topic ban was proposed not because of AO's beliefs, but because of the tactics s/he uses to promote those beliefs. MastCell  22:15, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Most of my edits have not caused any objections. Much of the criticisms is about a single article and in particular a single section and source. Or regarding my prior editing many months ago in a topic I now avoids. That is hardly evidence for any general current pattern. Again, I urge those interested to look more broadly at other articles I have edited recently. Academica Orientalis (talk) 23:03, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

@Maunus: saying that I am "misrepresenting" is tantamount to calling me a liar. As you can well imagine I take exception to that. Are you sure you want to go down that road at this venue? – Lionel 01:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, I take exception to you attributing me an opinion that I have not expressed, that is what I would call misrepresenting my stated opinion, which is what you do in your comment above. That is incidentally mentioned in WP:CIVIL as an uncivil thing to do, if done on purpose. If you didn't do it on purpose then I would have expected you to change your comment so that it didn't misrepresent my views (and those of other "support"ers, none of whom have argued that AO should be banned because of his views). I think you speak English well enough to be able to understand the difference in meaning between "misrepresent" and "lie". So which road is it you want to walk down with me?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 11:44, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

You are sorely mistaken. I have not attributed anything to you, nor to any other supporter. I am entitled to my own analysis of the facts. And what if I told you that my opinion was not based on the specific points you've raised but from other information? That would be a huge mouthful of crow for you to eat, wouldn't it? And to help further your understanding of our policies, it is one thing to disagree with another editor, it is a violation of WP:AGF to accuse an editor of misrepresenting. Hope this helps, and don't swallow the feathers--they make your poop look weird. – Lionel 22:48, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

In my idiolect the word "misrepresent" carries no assumption of intentionality and it is fully possible to misrepresent something unintentionally. I for one never attribute to malice what can be explained by flawed reasoning. So would you mind divulging what "other information" you base your assertion that topic banning AO would lower the bar to "the level of having an unpopular belief system--and the occasional expression of such on talk pages", given the evidence of persistent POv editing in article space?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 00:49, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support So this is an editor, who repeatedly breaks our behavioral guidelines as noted in diffs above, against one of our core policies, has been previously sanctioned in a closely related area with a topic ban, with no apparent effect? Why shouldn't a topic ban be put in place? There would still be well over 3 million other articles for the editor to contribute to; it's about time we nudge the editor to edit in an area where they do not disrupt the building of this encyclopedia. Yobol (talk) 02:56, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Most the complaints are regarding a single source in one particular article. Aside from edits made months ago in a topic I now avoids. Would it help if promise to avoid this article in the future? No, my knowledge is regarding evolutionary psychology so I cannot contribute as well elsewhere. Most of my edits regarding this to numerous articles, adding substantial material, have received no complaints whatsoever. Academica Orientalis (talk) 03:22, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Acadēmica Orientālis/formerly Miradre arbitrary break

• Comment - I have trouble saying that I would oppose sanctions based on the actions of the editor involved, but I cannot actively make myself support one. Yes, the editor is apparently incapable of even the most basic reasoning. Yes, the editor politely engages in stonewalling. And certainly his mindless repetition of "I don't see any diffs" and other comments above are almost enough to make one want to strangle him, if that could be done over the web. But I would procedurally prefer it if an RfC on the editor's behavior, with a recommendation to cease editing all articles in the basic topic area, were filed before a topic ban is placed. Based at least on some of the comments here, it may well be possible that the editor has some sort of mental dysfunction or inability and it is impossible for him to view his own conduct rationally. That sort of thing appears a lot in race-related material. The problem seems to be that the editor has recently returned to editing material which is somewhat related recently. For all of his own vapid repetition above, I have seen no reason given by this editor why he has chosen to end his so-called self-imposed ban now. If he at least seemed to have acknowledged his own mistakes earlier, as his repetition of that comment seems to at least strongly imply, how has time made them other than mistakes in the past few months? However, having said all that, there is a precedent for "exhausting the patience of the community," and I do get the impression that AO's behavior has crossed that line. On that basis, I cannot force myself to actively oppose a topic ban either, unless a saw a clear and unambiguous statement that the editor would voluntarily remove himself from all involvement on related articles indefinitely. John Carter (talk) 22:51, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The reason I didn't start an rFc is the fact that he has participated in an arbcom case and has been under editing restrictions for similar behavior in the past. This did motivate him to edit i other areas rather than being an SPA, and I think that it would probably be to the benefit of wikipedia if he would concentrate his editing on topics such as China-Africa relations, China-South American relations and Chinese science and technology.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:34, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I have not ever been a SPA but edited a broad range of articles. Most of my editing and adding extensive material to numerous articles has not caused any objections at all. I would welcome a RfC so we could get a more fair overview of my recent editing which I think have been generally constructive. Academica Orientalis (talk) 23:46, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I think you quite clearly have, and you have also once stated that you had a previous account but rgistered "Miradre" exactly to be able to edit in "a controversial area" without it reflecting on your previous identity. I can find a dif to a previous ANI thread in which there was a general consensus that your account was an SPA dedicated to R&I. I estimate that less than 5% of the edits of Miradre (talk · contribs) have been outside the general R&I topic area. You clearly are doing good edits in other areas unrelated to biology and psychology, and I would encourage you to continue with that.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 23:55, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, please present evidence when you make claims and accusations. Many of my edits in biology and psychology have arguably been constructive such as regarding the Psychopathy article as explained earlier above.Academica Orientalis (talk) 00:02, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Well it is of course arguable - which is why we are arguing. The point is not so much that your edits are not constructive as it is about the quality of the construction and the amount of overseeing it requires of other editors to bring it in line with policy, and the fact that you appear to adamantly resist improving.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:18, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Most the complaints are regarding a single source in one article which cannot be taken as evidence for any general editing. Contrast that to the numerous additions that have received no complaints. Academica Orientalis (talk) 03:28, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Evidence has been provided that this takes place on a large number of articles and their talk pages. AO was not a WP:CLEANSTART: the new account was created apparently because of a hard disk failure which also resulted in the user losing their password for the account Miradre. It certainly is relevant to look at AO's prior editing as Miradre, before the accident. The EP related edits and talk page discussions did not change much. Here for example are two threads on Talk:Incest taboo. AO unduly changed the thrust of the article by prominently adding content from poor sources. Here are similar kinds of discussions on Talk:Suicide from November 2011, on Talk:War in October 2011, , etc, etc. Mathsci (talk) 05:46, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I have asked for diffs because many have made general accusations without presenting evidence. Note that at the beginning of the case there were for a time no diffs at all but people still wanted me to be banned. To then ask for evidence when I am being threatened with an indefinite ban seems justifiable. Otherwise it looks like a political ban due to my editing of a topic I now avoids. I have not ended avoiding this topic. Academica Orientalis (talk) 23:13, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Most of the diffs that have been added are about my editing many months ago in this topic. Or regarding a single article and in particular a single source and section in that article. I urge editors to look more broadly than just at my editing months ago in a topic I now avoids or regarding this single article and section/source. I have edited numerous articles and added material without any objections except in a small minority. If it helps I promise to avoid this particular article (Biology and political orientation) in the future. Academica Orientalis (talk) 23:40, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Look, I know that in the United states, where most people come from, there is no presentation of a case against the accused, for example, the president declares on TV that such and such somewhere in the world is a criminal, and that's the case closed, however, are we really so low as to deny obvious fundamental justice in this case by not providing a single recent diff or two, because I for one would like to see wikipedia hold itself just that little bit up out of the mud of mob stupidity, like a half arsed push-up by a fat slob just before he completely collapses back into the mud face down, so can somebody, for the love of god, provide a diff or two, hey, borrow something I did !!! there's an idea, call it puppetry for crying out loud, but lets see a little light shining in the basic ANI procedure department here ok ? This is not too much to ask. Penyulap ☏ 00:43, 26 Jun 2012 (UTC)

RFC/U is an excellent suggestion, John. This issue is just not clear cut enough to decide in a thread at ANI by tally of !votes. We use the topic ban hammer far too often here. – Lionel 01:33, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Take this to an RFC/U. Topic ban could be a remedy sought if AO can't understand the problem then, but I'd like to see wider discussion first. - Jorgath (talk) 13:22, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

And you are taking into account that he got a 3 month topic ban for the same behavior a year ago?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 13:24, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

A deeply unfair claim and comparison with editing almost one year ago. I have avoided that topic for a long time and I have not been accused by anyone here of edit warring. Academica Orientalis (talk) 14:11, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I think the editing pattern you have displayed here at ANI as well is also troublesome. IRWolfie- (talk) 14:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Am I allowed to defend myself against a proposed indefinite ban? What are you objecting to concretely? Also, all of your criticisms have been regarding a single section in one article. Would it help if I promise to avoid this article in the future? Academica Orientalis (talk) 14:37, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support When editors continually edit a small group of articles to insert bias, and argue their position on talk pages, they are hindering the improvement of those articles and wasting the time of other editors who wish to improve them or eliminate bias. There are rules related to neutrality and editors must attempt to follow them. TFD (talk) 18:03, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I have edited many pages without any controversy whatsoever. The above criticisms concern just a couple of pages. Most are regarding a single section in one article. Cannot be taken as evidence for any general pattern. This ban seems politically motivated for old editing in an area I now avoids. Academica Orientalis (talk) 18:53, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support on the basis of the tendentious behavior and disregard for community feedback displayed here. Misplaced Pages is a collaborative effort, not a place for defending blatant POV pushing against community consensus. aprock (talk) 20:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Of course not unexpected that you also would appear. Just to note, I received the maximum possible topic ban of 3 months for several reverts during a time period. None of these violated 3RR but I admit I should not have made as many reverts. I do think the punishment was excessive. However, Aprock did more reverts during this time period but received nothing at all! (See my 15:45, 11 July 2011 comments here: ) This is the systematic bias one encounters in this area. So of course I have avoided this area. Obviously this will not help. I will most likely get an indefinite ban. Many have cited the edits I did many months or years ago, in the area I have since avoided, thus making it abundantly clear that they consider I should be punished for expressing an unpoplar opinion at all in this area. The other criticisms regarding my editing concern a few pages. Most regarding a single section in one article which I have offered to never edit again. This can be compared to the numerous articles I have edited with no complaints. My expertise is regarding evolutionary psychology so I will no be able to contribute anywhere as effectively to other areas. So I will most likely retire once I get the indefinite topic ban. Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:37, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

You have a narrow view of what is "the area" which you were to avoid. I'm not sure it should be all of "evolutionary psychology", but only those parts where you have a non-standard view and are not willing to go beyond it to report on the standard view. You would know what those parts are better than I. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 00:36, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Obviously I cannot edit any evolutionary psychology article, any article mentioning evolutionary psychology explanations, or any article mentioning the possible role of genetics under a ban against "nature/nurture related articles, broadly construed". Academica Orientalis (talk) 00:56, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I suspect I may have been one of the more active users regarding adding substantial new article contents with 3,200 mainspace article edits since I returned in February. I feel it unfortunately increasingly clear why the Wikipeda Community is in decline and is reducing its active contributors by 7% each year. New Misplaced Pages editors are according to research "entering an environment that is increasingly challenging, critical, and/or hostile to their work". This does not explain exactly what these new editors are accused of doing. They are according to the link not of lower quality than earlier. One may instead suspect that the Misplaced Pages Community, as often is the case with groups, is becoming increasingly conformist and increasingly hostile and intolerant to views other than the "correct" Misplaced Pages view on the world. Editors with other views than the single "correct" Misplaced Pages view are being driven off the project. Academica Orientalis (talk) 02:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

• Support. User gives no indication that there will be an improvement to the clearly demonstrated non-neutral editing. The proposed topic ban is necessary for protection of the wiki, but I fear it is only an intermediate step, that the user will have to be banned indefinitely. Binksternet (talk) 20:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

See the comments above to Aprock. Academica Orientalis (talk) 20:37, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Oppose on procedural grounds. There are specific fora in which editors who allegedly violate arbitration remedies have their edits examined by experienced users for recentness, relatedness, and egregiousness. ANI is no place to short-circuit this necessary dispute resolution, unless the editor in question is being outrageously or obviously disruptive. The charges against this user seem to of civil POV pushing, and such a charge is difficult for laypersons in the community to investigate - it seems that those arguing for AO's ban have been involved in editorial disputes with xem for a long time. Also, AO's claims that xe has avoided the topic area for months now seem to be, at first glance, credible. Shrigley (talk) 14:13, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
  • The editor has not violated an arbcom remedy, a previous remedy was brought up to show a pattern of behavior. — The Hand That Feeds You: 16:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Many editors above ARE citing my earlier edits and having expressed the wrong view in the R&I dispute, a topic I have avoided, except some occasional talk page comments, for more than half a year as reason for topic banning me. Just look at Johnuniq who started the topic ban discussing. This was before anyone had given diffs regarding recent behavior they disagree with. The only links he gives are to R&I topics on which he himself have the opposite view and have argued with me. Or Mathsci, also before anyone had given diffs about recent behaviors, who is linking to R&I talk page content disputes most of which are very old without explaining what is supposed to violate any policy and in which he personally has often been involved. This seems to be arguing for a political ban for disagreeing with Mathsci's own POV. Academica Orientalis (talk) 17:13, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

You are arguing a point I didn't make. That's not helpful. — The Hand That Feeds You: 18:54, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps while they are misrepresenting themselves in such a disingenuous way (describing discussions from February 2012 as "very old", etc), Academica Orientalis could explain what exactly they think my "point of view" is? Mathsci (talk) 07:03, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

DoD Acadēmica Orientālis on behaviour

The issue of a topic ban in this case is malformed for ANI, no bright lines have been crossed in the recent past, and the distant past is beyond the scope of this venue. There is little to no chance of any bright lines being crossed in the immediate future, and leaving the issue of a topic ban open in this case can only serve an ill purpose, that is, to topic ban Acadēmica Orientālis because of his obnoxious insatiable desire to answer every comment, which has nothing to do with the topic in question. (not an insult, I like the editor, I want to help the editor, it's just an observation which I can get away with because I'm on friendly terms with him, and it's what you're all thinking). The annoyance is not the issue of the topic ban, but it would assist Acadēmica Orientālis if he understood the minor issue of commenting a little better. He is too well educated and articulate to require mentoring, or, nobody can be bothered offering as it is not appropriate, and as this is not about misbehaviour no trouting could apply.

I would like to present the Donut of doom to Acadēmica Orientālis as something much less than a trout, to let him know that his commenting at ANI could use a little more restraint. I will present it as a complaint, because I think he talks too much at ANI, and I think there are other editors who feel he is somewhat verbose. Penyulap ☏ 21:51, 27 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Your "analysis" of the factors behind the support !votes above is completely unprovable and amounts to a gigantic assumption of bad faith on your part. Since most of those editors have cited both specific and general behaviors on AO's part as the reasons behind their comments, WP:AGF requires you to accept what they say at face value, unless you have evidence to show otherwise. To make sweeping assumptions based on nothing isn't terribly helpful one way or the other. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:25, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Vettakkorumakansnehi

This user is constantly flooding talk pages of articles with requests for comments on minor issues - one example on Talk:Nair, about a simple matter of adding a cn template to the article lead. I have received a complaint on my talk page, complaining of what they saw as unacceptable behaviour ] from User:Sitush. I have found an example from the latter user before the latest clash . There are several other diffs which the user has posted on my talk page detailing what they see as 'inappropriate behavior' from Sitush ,. Vettakkorumakansnehi has been warned of sanctions , and has received a topic ban of 6 months . Sitush has also highlited this edit on the articles talk page -. Mdann52 (talk) 16:02, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I placed a 6 month article ban to resolve that. I suspect I'll be imposing an indefinite one in 6 months 2 days. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 16:07, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The problems spread from Talk:Nair (several sections) to Talk:Iyengar, where my frustration with WP:IDHT behaviour came to the boil, especially since at that point User:Vettakkorumakansnehi was also trying to impose exactly the same sort of discussions on various user talk pages. I backed off somewhat after that, imposing on myself a "one or two responses a day" rule in order to slow things down and keep things more calm. As it turns out, that was just a relative calmness.

They are intelligent and they can be pleasant to deal with (eg: this thread is ok), but they really do not seem to be getting a grasp of how we operate, despite seeming to have a wide knowledge of our policies for one who has made so few contributions. My suspicion is that they will just move on to another caste article and start over with the same sort of thing but I do hope that the article ban gives them pause for thought. - Sitush (talk) 16:28, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

I do appreciate User Sitush and his contributions to many India related topics, however during content discussion he exibits constant ad hominem, belittling and filibustering - Assuming good faith several of these were overlooked, A few examples are see here, here and here. The above said user repeatedly engaged in evading the core-issue of topic and misrepresentation and WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT See here, here. The user:Qwyrxian (QW) jumps in to make unwarranted comment here. It was pointed to User:QW that these comments are unwarranted as I have no history of edit wars. Meanwhile user Sitush goes ahead and makes an edit to the article although I had expressed my disagreement to it, see here. Further I also expressed my fear based on the long history of how discussions go in Nair talk page consensus has always come to mean UerQW-User:Sitush POV. Further , this “we” behaviour by UserQW-User:Sitush also spilled over to other articles, see here. Finally, this inappropriate behaviour was pointed out to which a veiled threat of discretionary sanctions was made, see here and the post of User:Sitush on my talk page. I decided to get help on how to handle this (so placed a help me template), but instead of receiving a suggestion I was given a topic ban for 6 months (what I perceive as unwarranted) , see counter-alleging WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT  !!!. I believe that although the intention of User:Sitush is good (to prevent disruptive editing by caste warrior), however the behaviour has become akin to WP:OWN, WP:GAMES and WP:GANG in Nair article. I kindly request that my topic ban of 6 months be lifted and that the veracity of my observations ( on inappropriate behaviour of user:Sitush), be reviewed. Thanking you in advance. VSVettakkorumakansnehi (talk) 12:59, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

In case my rationale is not already completely clear, I imposed the topic ban on Vettakorumakansnehi because he flooded Talk:Nair with stream of consciousness screeds on minor issues, and when it was pointed out why the changes he was looking for were problematic continued to post walls of near-impenetrable text. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 04:19, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

(1) It rather seems more than coincidence to me that the ban for alleged-flooding comes minutes after i point something in the direction of UserQW-User:Sitush and also within few minutes that User:Sitush makes a vieled threat on discretionary sanctions !!. Moreover it also appears strange that this comes from another english wiki editor with Japanese-connection (just like User:QW) (2) What you percieve as "flooding-talk" -talk page was a resultant-filibustering because Users:Sitush-UserQW were engaging in WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT and repeatedly avoiding core-issues during consensus-building through ad hominem - it takes two hands to clap - meaning both parties (including me) has the onus if something goes wrong (3) Although prima-facie the discussion may look trivial. We are talking about an issue of an Indian-caste-article lead sentence giving a colonial-POV and the change being resisted by a User from UK through ad hominem and WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT !!!. Anyways in the larger interest and assuming good faith I am willing to overlook what i see as "more than coincidences" . The real issue of this thread is (a) The checking the veracity of ad hominems that were perpetrated against me by User:Sitush and if inappropriate co-operation behavior does exist between UserSitush-User:QW (B) is the topic ban (percieved as disproportionate and unwarranted) a justified response to a "help template" to take guidance against being victimized by inappropriate behavior. This topic ban needs to be independently reviewed in the context of the whole scenario. VSVettakkorumakansnehi (talk) 12:32, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

The topic ban was not because of the help template. That has been explained to you. — The Hand That Feeds You: 16:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I do respect your opinion on ban-help me correlation..if that may be the final decision on the ANI. However, a review of whether the behavior of User:Sitush was appropriate or inappropriate ? (after-all that is the core-issue of this ANI thread that requires redressal :-) ). Do kindly review my diffs provided on 12:59, 26 June 2012 and let me know of the ANI decision accordingly VSVettakkorumakansnehi (talk) 17:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I've reviewed the talk page debates. You are quite verbose, but you either do not understand, or do not wish to comply with, en.Misplaced Pages's rules. I suggest you take the 6 months to read our rules and work on some non-India articles. (Note: I am not an admin, but this seems rather straightforward.) — The Hand That Feeds You: 19:09, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Varlaam and the Hedd Wyn article

• Varlaam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
• Hedd Wyn (film) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

We seem to have a problem here, and a long term one at that. It's previously been discussed at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive600#And now for the aftermath and Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive656#Varlaam's recent edits, the latter resulting in a two week block for what he's doing right now. Edit summaries from back then included "Enough with the anti-English Welsh racism", "Rule, Britannia. Britannia rules the waves. Britons (including the Welsh) never, never, never shall be slaves.", and "Wow, you are really, really racist. You are probably in gaol."

Despite the 2 week block in December 2010, he tried changing it again on 17 May 2011, then 21 January 2012, again on 21 January 2012, 23 January 2012 (edit summary of "You are a pathetic embarrassment to dispassionate, disinterested scholarship"), 24 June and 25 June (edit summary of "Your irrational, one-issue POV pushing is a sad, sad embarrassment to all concerned. Why don't you try making a genuine contribution to anything anywhere?").

There's a discussion about it on Talk:Hedd Wyn (film) that Varlaam has never once taken part in. So sporadic long term edit warring, failing to take part in the relevant discussion, abusive edit summaries. It seems little has been learnt since Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive187#User:‎Varlaam reported by User:One Night In Hackney (Result: 60 hours) which was just two weeks ago.

Any ideas on a solution? 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 16:57, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Anyone? 2 lines of K₃₀₃ 16:47, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Simple solution. Indef block for sustained disruption, general incivility, tendentious editing, slow edit warring, editing against consensus, personal attacks. Did I miss anything? Blackmane (talk) 16:57, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I would have to echo ONiH here. I was involved in the dispute that resulted in his most recent block, and it seems the same behaviour is continuing. Edit warring, assumptions of bad faith, attacks on other editors, there certainly seems to be a problem in need of addressing. Mo ainm~Talk 23:32, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I would like to add my vigorous and full-throated support of an indefinite block for Varlaam. He's been allowed to engage in his out of control behavior for far too long, with far too few sanctions. Varlaam is a profuse editor who feels himself an expert, and the final word, on any topic where he chooses to edit. If only incivility and edit warring were only the problems! His standard mode of response to being reverted is edit warring coupled with spates of personal attacks. Unfortunately, the numbers of personal attacks appear fewer than they actually are because they are spread out among the sheet numbers of small edits he makes, making them appear less frequent than is actually the case.

I had the misfortune to cross Varlaam's path on the various season articles for ER (TV series), where he was attempting to add a. long lists of "notable" guest cast without any discernible criteria for notability, and b. OR interpretations of individual episode titles. His response to reverts wass to immediately become disproportionately angry and abusive in an effort to browbeat what he appears to view as an opponent into recognizing his superior knowledge and allowing him to do as he wishes. He takes tremendous pride in the sheer volume of edits he makes both here and on the IMDB, and his talk page is a collection of revelatory "how much/how many" lists that go a long way to explain his attitude to editing and being reverted. Quality simply doesn't concern him; it's all about the numbers of edits and having others stay out of his way as he does as he wishes. Moreover, he sees nothing wrong with judging or demeaning other editors' contributions or editorial style, always viewing his own approach to contributing to the project as superior.

My most recent encounter with him was in February, when he attempted to add a bit of non-notable trivia to an article related to the TV series Rizzoli and Isles. When I reverted it he responded with what was without question the vilest comment on a talk page I've ever had the misfortune to see an editor make, followed by an attempt to bully me into putting in his edit. This is an editor who sees himself as above Misplaced Pages policies and practices, sees nothing wrong with what he does, sees the other editor as to blame for whatever behavior is called into question, and is prepared to be as combative as it takes to get his way. Worse, he carries grudges endlessly, one major reason the problem on the Hedd Wyn article persists. He's been allowed to get away with his abusive behavior for far too long, and it's past time he was indefinitely blocked from editing. --Drmargi (talk) 12:19, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Prachursharma's not-so-subtle antisemitic page

Earlier today, Prachursharma (talk · contribs) created a page titled Religious affiliations of the Chairmen of the Federal Reserve of the United States. While such a topic isn't necessarily intended to be antisemitic (and, if you know anything about the rampant antisemitism related to the Fed, even that is a bit of a stretch,) he included links to wordpress.com and http://zionistjewfedreserve.com/photo.html zionistjewfedreserve.com.

I submitted the page for speedy delete, but I think this issue must be addressed with the page's creator. I haven't yet gone through his/her other edits, but given how egregious this page was, I would be surprised if there weren't more inappropriate additions made by this editor in the past. JoelWhy? talk 17:54, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

The obviously anti-Semitic links have been removed, but can still be seen in the edit history here. CSD was declined (a move I disagree with) but I am submitting for AfD based on lack on notability. (Although, I'm sure we could establish notability by using about 1,000 different neo-Nazi websites...) JoelWhy? talk 18:01, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

AfD seems the appropriate venue - is there any other admin activity you're asking for other than that? (I don't think you can expect to ask other people to go fishing for you - if you think there might be other problems with this editor's work, please do go and investigate yourself, and then come and ask for action if you find anything) -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:12, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

(expanded -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:14, 25 June 2012 (UTC))

• Actually, having said that, I've done a bit of fishing and I found Sharia in the United States, which seems like a very POV advocacy piece - I've taken that to AfD too. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 18:33, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Obvious sock is obvious? LadyofShalott 00:05, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Someone is pretending to be me, editing Misplaced Pages in my name.

No other problems

Removal of talk page messages from Jason Clare

Hi all, I added a comment to the talk page of Jason Clare, but it keeps getting removed. See here and here. I've asked for this not to be done, and added a comment as to why I think my comment is relevant to the article here, but it keeps being removed.

I would much prefer to know why this information can't be added to the article, a response would be best I'd have thought! I don't want to keep changing the version, as it might make it a bit hard to edit the talk page (though I don't think that would necessarily be a problem as the talk page doesn't seem very busy...). Anyway, I checked out where I can ask about this and this seems to be the place! I will add the notice to User:Timeshift9's talk page as it says above. - Letsbefiends (talk) 22:19, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

If you can find multiple Reliable Sources (RS) that discuss it, it might be includable. Until then it violates Misplaced Pages:No original research and has been and will continue to be removed per Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not#Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox or means of promotion. Dru of Id (talk) 22:42, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh, OK. It might have been nice if this had been explained on the talk page. I guess I wasn't expecting this sort of thing - I'm sort of new here! I just saw it disappeared from the talk page. - Letsbefiends (talk) 22:50, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Based on your contributions thus far, I question "I just saw it disappeared from the talk page"... Timeshift (talk) 09:27, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, I saw it go missing from the talk page, so I checked the revision history. It's not rocket science you know. As I say, I'm new here - so far, I've worked out how to create a talk page, make some minor corrections to articles and participate in some discussions (well, sort of - you removed my comments with no real explanation). It was very nice to see that I got welcomed after this though. I have been reading through the policies and guidelines pages, and I notice that there is an assumption of good faith on Misplaced Pages, is this not the case? - Letsbefiends (talk) 10:46, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

That sounds about right for someone who's new to wikis in general but is pretty computer-literate, in my opinion. - Jorgath (talk) 02:19, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Why, thank you :-) - Letsbefiends (talk) 03:19, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Threat

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Am I sensitive or is this edit and the previous edit a not so veiled threat or invitation/incitement to assassination? Trackinfo (talk) 00:23, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

It's difficult to take it seriously as a threat. It's not an appropriate comment by any means, but hardly incitement sensu stricto. Antandrus has got rid of it. bobrayner (talk) 00:49, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Trackinfo, It's a very inappropriate comment, but it is not a threat. It does actually not advocate violent behavior. NJ Wine (talk) 02:55, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Request to observe User:NJ Wine

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

NJ Wine (talk · contribs) seems to be exhibiting behavior that verges on violating WP:OWN regarding Wineries, breweries and distilleries of New Jersey. Try to edit the article, he reverts. Quite frankly, I'm avoiding the article because I can't stand that type of behavior and prefer just to stay away. But, he's done this before with other editors and likely will do it again. User:NJ Wine seems to remind me of Smeagol fetishizing over his "precious." Please consider observing his contributions vis-a-vis this article. Thank you. --ColonelHenry (talk) 01:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Could you provide some diffs please? I've only taken a cursory glance, but I see NJ Wine engaging with you and other editors on the talk page. Personally, I'm a bit disappointed by your statement in NJ Wine's ANI notice "I am only advising you of this action because I am required to by the rules of WP:AIN". In fact, an editor has already commented on NJ Wine's cooperation on your talk page. "NJ Wine knows he doesn't own it and has expressed a willingness to restore some of your changes, explained his reasoning, and work with you on the rest." In fact, you NJ Wine already created an RFC for this topic in order to get a more broad community decision. Ryan Vesey Review me! 01:31, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I left WP years ago simply because of behaviors like those of NJ Wine. I don't accept the reasons/rationale he provided. I see ownership and don't consider any superficial claim of "i'm willing to work with you" when the only response to anyone else's edits is reverting. If I didn't leave the article, it would have ended up an acrimonious edit/revert war over something insignificant. I've seen it too often. I don't assume good faith when I recognize someone with WP:OWN behaviors. It's the biggest shortcoming of contributing to WP--the pettiness of article ownership. Others want to contribute, others edit, others add good material, he reverts. He defends the article possessively. I think the article is sloppy, I tried to tighten it up. That considerable thought went into my revision and it was quickly and effortlessly reverted wasn't cool in my book. He only went to RFC after I mentioned reporting him to admins for WP:OWN issues. I don't waste my time with that kind of behavior.--ColonelHenry (talk) 18:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

This is nuts. I included 2 of your changes when I reverted the article, and in the request for comment that I opened on the talk page, I stated that I'm fine with 4 of your other changes as long as we have reliable sources. While you keep stating that the article was sloppy, and you spent a considerable about of time to clean it up, in actually, you added two statements to the article that were completely inappropriate, and took me by surprise.

(1) New Jersey's alcohol control laws and licensing requirements have permitted a healthy environment for small-scale, privately-owned microbreweries and brewpubs can survive against a global brand like Anheuser-Busch, and a regional chain of brewpubs like Iron Hill. This statement is an opinion, and should not be in a Misplaced Pages article unless it is part of a quote. Some brewers may not view the state's business environment as healthy.

(2) Before 1981, New Jersey had one licensed winery, Renault Winery, in Atlantic County, because Prohibition-era statutes limited the state to one winery per one million residents. This statement is very inaccurate. There was more than one winery in NJ before 1981. Tomasello Winery was founded in 1933, Balic Winery was founded in 1967, and I believe that there may have been a few others which are no longer in business.

Everyone makes mistakes, but don't keeping saying how sloppy this article was when you added erroneous and biased material. Furthermore, I am really tired of hearing that I will revert any change that anyone makes to the article. It's simply not true, and a review of the article's history will show that it is not true. If you believe that the article in its current state is sloppy or that I just revert people's changes, prove it. Give everyone examples of these supposed problems. NJ Wine (talk) 18:57, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• First off, starting off with "this is nuts" is verging on violating WP:CIVIL. I might take offense to that, so may others. Incivility is not conducive to a healthy community. Next: The quote about one winery in the state before 1981 came from the New Jersey Law Journal last year as a historical note in an article about direct shipping bill while discussed in the legislature. I recently e-mailed them for a fact-check. If there was something to repair...namely to correct...you should have corrected it in order to correct the statement, not eradicate the statement. Instead, you decapitated the patient who just needed a band-aid. The mention of it being a "healthy" environment about breweries came from a NJ Tourism Bureau press release that cited an industry trade report. So, I guess they were "inappropriate" (as you say) in publishing this too. For example (among many), I think it's irresponsible and inappropriate as you say to be claiming there are 41 wineries in NJ when there are 43 officially licensed and operating. This list also doesn't include wineries that are licensed by the TTB and State, are operating tentatively but haven't received zoning approval from their municipalities. The Pot should look in the mirror before calling the kettle black. You aren't master of facts in addition to owner of the article. I mentioned that I had the cite but didn't have it available at the time I wrote and that I would proceed to add it. Instead, you jumped the gun. Again, you're behavior exhibits ownership and an arrogant disregard that will drive other editors away. This jumping to abrupt conclusions, you revert without seeking to understand anyone's else their reasons but say "i have my reasons", you claim you're "being bold" as if it implies that the original edits weren't, and then guttersniping now are just further proof that there is a problem. Those problem drives other editors away. Those problems keep this article sloppy. Those problems undermine Misplaced Pages's credibility and efforts at sustaining a community of great editors.--ColonelHenry (talk) 01:47, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

ColonelHenry, I apologize if I have upset you, but I do not believe that I have done anything wrong. Only on one occassion did I revert edits of yours, and I stated my reasons on the talk page -- see Talk:Wineries, breweries and distilleries of New Jersey#Reverted changes. Neither I nor anyone else "owns" this article. My edits are fully compliant with the bold, revert, discuss process. You made very extensive edits to this article yesterday, I reverted many (but not all) of your changes, and I stated my grounds on the talk page. I have included a request for comment box on the talk page so that other editors could give their opinions on the changes being discussed. NJ Wine (talk) 02:27, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm still returning to work on that list. I tried WP:BOLD/WP:BRD in my revisions. Two can play that game--it ends up becoming an "is too/is not" debate. My work was unappreciated. I do not accept your reasons they smack of ownership. Others tried editing the article, you did the same thing to them. I get the point. I don't waste my time. Nonetheless, I believe you should be observed for WP:OWN issues.--ColonelHenry (talk) 18:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

That list of non-notable companies reads like advertising, and it appears that a User with the name of NJ Wine probably has a COI in creating and maintaining this article. 69.62.243.48 (talk) 03:49, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Agreed, the present list is wholly indefensible, a gross violation of NOT DIRECTORY. (We normally also include those items with a WP article or about which it is obvious that an satisfactory WP article can be written, but there is no evidence presented here for any of them). NJWine has argued that a good percentage of them are notable. When someone write and can defend articles on them, they can be included, but not until then. I would do what I always do to such inappropriate writing, which is removed the redlinks, except that the same problem is present on such pages as List of wineries in Missouri, and I'd therefore like confirmation first. (I would nominate for AfD, except that a few items on the list are notable, so it's an editing question.) I do not think it necessary for the ed. responsible to be blocked as primarily a promotional editor--we could use their expertise. to produce proper articles on those wineries & related topics that are notable. (I note that by our current practice for articles about localities, the name of a Vineyard can be included in an article about the most specific locality as appropriate content if there is a RS: e.g., Amalthea Cellars can be mentioned in Atco, New Jersey.) DGG ( talk ) 08:29, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Umm... If you care to look at an older revision, you'll see that list used to be a list of external links. For every. single. entry. Since it was converted to a list of redlinks, it now meets WP:LIST and does not violate WP:NOTDIRECTORY. I don't see the problem. ~Amatulić (talk) 17:15, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I believe that a certain percentage of the wineries and breweries on the list are notable even if they don't have an article yet. However, they do not all need to be notable to include them on a list. WP:LISTCOMPANY states A company or organization may be included in a list of companies or organizations whether or not it meets the Misplaced Pages notability requirement, unless a given list specifically requires this. If the company or organization does not have an existing article in Misplaced Pages, a citation to an independent, reliable source should be provided to establish its membership in the list's group. NJ Wine (talk) 10:04, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

The inclusion of commercial entities in a list such as this that do not have current Misplaced Pages is simply WP:PROMO, which is not permitted. It's trying to skirt a lack of WP:GNG by mentioning them in a list instead. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

BWilkins, I read WP:PROMO, and I don't see this article as being in violation. WP:PROMO prohibits spam, advertisements and self-promotion. If this article contained statements about the quality of the wine or beer from NJ wineries and breweries, or where you could buy it, I'd agree with you. However, the article gives a history of winemaking and brewing in the state and just lists the current producers. As I stated earlier, WP:LISTCOMPANY allows this kind of list. NJ Wine (talk) 12:40, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I think I agree with NJ Wine here, WP:LISTCOMPANY appears to allow for it. If that isn't the intent of the seciton, I believe it should be reformatted, but that is a discussion of a different sort. In any case, it doesn't seem like any action is needed through ANI, this is a content issue that should take place on the article's talk page. Shall we close this? Ryan Vesey Review me! 13:28, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't think you can close something out when there's still a difference of opinion on things because of the inherent inconsistency and lack of correspondence between WP policies. We should consider a resolution between which of these policies applies and stick to it. Then, there's still the WP:OWN issues. --ColonelHenry (talk) 18:26, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

There aren't any ownership issues and policy shouldn't be decided at ANI. If it is a content dispute it should stick to the article talk page. Ryan Vesey Review me! 18:56, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I concur - while there may or may not be a conflict between WP:PROMO and WP:LISTCOMPANY, this isn't the place to hash it out, nor is it the place to deal with a content dispute - that's what article/policy talk pages and, if needed WP:DRN are for - The Bushranger posting as Aerobird from a public computer 19:56, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Mass recreation of previously CSD'd articles

By User:AlanM1 (talk) (contribs). They're all articles on obscure time zone classifications, as far as I can tell, and the user may or may not be a sock of a previously blocked user. I don't know what's up, but someone should look into it. Evanh2008 07:58, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

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I wouldn't call 14 articles "mass recreation", nor are they obscure to people that use them because they live in or deal with data from those zones. They are names of various time zone identifiers from the tz database – probably the most accurate, widely available and used source of time zone info. The individual articles currently contain mostly reformatted data from the database (which is still easier to browse/read than its native form), but are meant to eventually contain maps, history (from the notes in the database), DST rule history, etc.

That is, if everyone would stop freaking out and deleting them.

As far as I saw, they were deleted simply because of G5, with no discussion. The one article that was actually discussed (one of the Time in... ones) failed to get whatever it needed to be deleted. —— 08:37, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Update: That article, BTW, was Time in Illinois. The discussion about deleting it is here. It took all of another 13 days for someone to mark it for G5 deletion and another admin to completely ignore the previous discussion and delete it anyway :( —— 08:17, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I am not a sock, meat, or any other kind of puppet, and I'll try not to resent the implication. A look at my edit history and writing should make that clear, though I am getting increasingly tired of the time I'm spending on things other than editing, and not necessarily being very nice about it.

I'm simply trying to pick up where TC left off. It will take a while, and there will occasionally be some things that don't work right or be incomplete during that time. Please just take a breath and wait and I'll be glad to discuss it when the collection is, at least, functional as it was apparently intended. —— 08:37, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

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Agreed. They may be "obscure" from your perspective, but that doesn't make them not notable. Time zones are basic information of international importance, used every day in numerous countries and recorded in multiple reliable sources, and these articles complete a set of highly notable items, even if some are now only of historic importance. Given that, I don't believe that CSD is appropriate here. -- The Anome (talk) 08:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

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Also note there was a mass-deletion followed by re-consideration and restore of some of these articles here: User_talk:JamesBWatson#Time_articles and another mass deletion here that broke all the individual zone articles: User_talk:Anthony_Bradbury#Time_articles, for which I'm hoping for a similar resolution. —— 08:57, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Note that I specified, "may or may not be", and the only reason I made the statement was because of the statement made by User:JamesBWatson here. The articles look plenty notable enough to me, and I wouldn't support CSD or any other kind of deletion procedure for them. On further review, I see no evidence of any puppetry here, either. Carry on. Evanh2008 09:21, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

The articles which I deleted all qualified under G5 criterion, being created by a banned user and have no meaningful additions made except by the creating user or by editors identified and blocked as his socks. This {{speedy}} criterion does not, as you are doubtless aware, require any consideration as to whether the article is otherwise a valid article. --Anthony Bradbury 11:13, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

P.S. I have at no time accused AlanM1 of sock or meat puppetry.--Anthony Bradbury 11:16, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

AlanM1 is someone who volunteered to clean up after Tobias Conradi. If you're looking for Conradi's latest sockpuppet, as far as I can tell its Indiana State (talk · contribs). Uncle G (talk) 13:44, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I have no reason to doubt this, and I have at no time criticised Alan, or indeed anyone else in this thread. But the fact remains that the articles I deleted are, IMHO, clear examples of a G5 deletion. If community consensus decrees otherwise I have no argument to make; this has not so far happened. --Anthony Bradbury 16:19, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't disagree that your deletions were valid under G5. That said, the recreation is also valid as long as there is no evidence of a connection between AlanM1 and TC (or any other banned user). There does not seem to be any such evidence, except that Alan did take on the task of re-creating some legit G5s because Alan felt that the articles were worthy even if the contributor wasn't. Absent any other evidence, Alan's behavior deserves a cookie and a "good job," not an AN/I discussion. Still, Evan's concerns have enough validity that Evan doesn't deserve any sort of fish for this. So Alan, have a cookie. Evan, thanks for checking, but there doesn't seem to be a problem, so carry on. Anthony, thank you for clarifying. - Jorgath (talk) 17:56, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to trade my cookie, and borrow two more, to trade for the 4 templates that I asked to be recovered so I don't have to reverse-engineer them, since they are transcluded by 40 other articles/templates of value:

• Template:Tz/utc-meridian-central
• Template:Tz/utc-meridian-east
• Template:Tz/utc-meridian-west
• Template:Tz/utc-hue4map-color

"Because policy says so" is not an appropriate response, nor sufficient compensation for my knowledge, time, and effort, is it? —— 01:01, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd support that. Otherwise the "a banned editor did it" reason is itself disruptive. If anyone objects, this is where I feel WP:IAR is legit. - Jorgath (talk) 01:39, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I'd like to voice my agreement with Jorgath, and apologize to anyone and everyone for any misunderstanding I may have caused. The G5 criterion itself is a little silly, in my opinion, but my involvement with this bit ends here. Bye, all. Evanh2008 02:14, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the support y'all. Please also see #AlanM1_TiI for more disruption, contrary to community agreement. Please add Time in Illinois to the list of articles to be restored. Again, how can we keep this from continuing to happen? Is there a required-reading newsletter for admins? A hat-note that only someone trying to admin (e.g., propose for deletion, move, delete, etc.) an article would see? —— 08:17, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

• G5 is one of the most worthless of the CSD criteria, possibly only trumped by A7. However, per Misplaced Pages:BAN#Enforcement_by_reverting, Alan is perfectly allowed to reinstate articles by a banned user, since that means he's taking responsibility for them. What i'm getting out of this discussion is that Alan recreated or undeleted articles that had previously been made by a now banned user, correct? If yes, then no, G5 is not proper at all, because Alan was taking responsibility for the content, meaning that the articles should essentially be treated as being made by him now. Silverseren 10:06, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Not quite. My understanding is that Alan protested the G5 deletion of these articles. Once they were deleted, he re-created them himself under the portion of WP:BAN you quoted. Evan wanted to make sure Alan wasn't doing so in bad faith. - Jorgath (talk) 12:49, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
    • I have, as I hope everyone accepts, absolutely no intentio n of being difficult. I have re-checked the deleted articles in question, and it is not obvious that Alan has re-created them. Had that been obvious then clearly i would not have delted them. An edit on the talk page, or in the text of the article itself, might have made the situation clearer.--Anthony Bradbury 18:26, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
  • OK, so how do I get the above-bulleted templates (here), and Time in Illinois un-deleted (or moved to my user space, or whatever)? —— 04:14, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Geoinformer

Geoinformer (talk · contribs) is adding verbatim text from several Pakistani news sources. User was warned twice regarding the addition of copyrighted material but has continued adding copyrighted material for two weeks after warnings. I will provide a duplicate detector link for several instances. The detector will use a diff from Geoinformer and a link to the original source. I thought this would be easier than giving a diff and a link to the article and making everyone else do the work to find the copying. Luckily, it seems that every time they life text from a copyrighted source, they're thorough enough to leave a reference to the source.

• Social issues in Pakistan - The entire article seems to be plagarized except for the first line which is essentially a note from the author explaining what they're attempting to show. It's marked for G12 and may be deleted soon.

I can provide many more but it's lunch time and I believe this is enough to spur the help needed to deal with this issue. I haven't made many reports at ANI so please let me know if there's anything I can/need to do better. OlYeller21 15:29, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

The user has not edited since the 23rd June, which is prior to the last messages on their talk page (a notice of speedy delete of a copyvio article). I have left a final warning based on the first link provided by OlYeller21. If there are more when the user resumes editing, let me know and I will block (or return here). SpinningSpark 19:29, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye out and let you know. I'll also start working on reverting their edits that insert copyrighted material and would welcome help. OlYeller21 20:25, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

The copyvios are very minor, usually one or two sentences. They can be remedied with a minuscule effort, which of course ought to have been exerted by Geoinformer, but still. I find this forum to be an overkill regarding addressing these transgressions. __meco (talk) 06:54, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

SPA editor disrupting closed AFD

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Cattleprod1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) seems to have registered just to disparage Victoria Pynchon , , . They're now repeatedly editing a closed AFD , , even after being told not to . A final warning or block would be nice. --NeilN 20:36, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• I will have a chat with them. Would rather try to chat before jumping to a block if possible. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 20:47, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

I simply disagree with what Neil is doing. My comments are valid. I would like them included on the relevant page. Neil is a twit. Cattleprod1 (talk) 20:50, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Here comes the WP:BOOMERANG. Cattleprod, since the AfD is closed, that means no more comments are to be made on it. If you have an issue with the page itself, the article's talk page is the way to go. Also, please Don't attack editors. Wildthing61476 (talk) 20:52, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• And they are blocked. You try to be polite and steer folks in the right direction, offer them friendly advice instead of a bland template, but sometimes it doesn't help if they have their own agenda. Oh well, I tried. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 21:07, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Actually, what you put on the editor's talk page was very well written. I'm going to steal parts of it for future use if I may. --NeilN 21:10, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Backlog at RFPP

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There is a pretty significant backlog at WP:RFPP. Can a few admins swing by and take care of some of the requests? Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 21:55, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Comment: Although this is the Admin's noticeboard, this is for incidents, not backlogs. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 00:38, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I think you want WP:AN, not AN/I. - Jorgath (talk) 01:49, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Comment: SHEESH! Pardon ElKevbo for going to the best place to get some attention! Sorry, Electriccatfish, but you don't have to have an opinion on everything--it won't help you on an RfA, for instance. Jorgath, ElKevbo has more than six times as many edits as the two of you together, and they are a respected editor. They know where to go, alright? Drmies (talk) 01:52, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Well, I'm sorry for trying to be helpful. I don't check the contrib history of everyone I ever talk to, okay? - Jorgath (talk) 02:13, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Apology accepted. Consider not talking to everybody. Drmies (talk) 02:34, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't usually. I'm just bored, and procrastinating on take-home work. - Jorgath (talk) 02:39, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Handled, thanks to Materialscientist, Qwyrxian, and others. Thanks for pointing it out, Kevin. Drmies (talk) 01:57, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

User Noozgroup and formatting changes

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This user has a long series of edits today that involve WP:ORDINAL changing words to numerals ("sixteen" to "16", for example). There's no consensus for the style change - and maybe the change itself isn't a big deal - but from his talk page, he's been warned several times and blocked at least once for this. It's clear he's not listening to anyone, and refuses to discuss the issue, and that's the real problem. PaulGS (talk) 23:14, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

• Blocked for three months. It was bound to happen. I'll drop User:Qwyrxian a line as well. If anyone is more tired of this nonsense than I am and wants to up to indef, that's fine with me. Thanks, Drmies (talk) 02:05, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

My goodness. Technically some of the recent changes he made are actually acceptable. The problem lies in the fact that MOS:NUMBER says that either, e.g., "13" or "thirteen" are acceptable, but our broader MOS practice says "don't change optional formatting without a good reason". And Noozgroop never asserts a reason other than that xe believes it to be correct (in fact, xe generally doesn't even use edit summaries), and refuses to discuss the issue afterward. Noozgroop needs a new hobby on Misplaced Pages. I would be willing to consider an unblock request from xyr (if xe posts one) so long as xe agrees not to do any more word to number changes (or vice versa), period, ever. Qwyrxian (talk) 02:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I know--the broader practice has been hashed on this board a couple of times... This kind of editing behavior, combined with the earlier blocks and the complete lack of communication, has led to an indef block more than once. I agree, BTW, with such an unblock promise, but I'm not going to hold my breath for it. Drmies (talk) 02:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

A question about a possible photograph copyright violation.

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I am sorry if this is being posted on the wrong help page, but I don't know where else to ask for help on this subject. I noticed that this image ] was uploaded by a Misplaced Pages editor who claims to own the copyright. However, I found the same photograph published by a New York newspaper and I suspect that the newspaper owns the copyright. How is something like this handled? Thank you. And Adoil Descended (talk) 00:48, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

The right place is the copyright problems board. - Jorgath (talk) 01:10, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Thank you, Jorgath. And Adoil Descended (talk) 01:30, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Also possibly useful: WP:PUF. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 01:32, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Users Thestapler123 and Fineuser reported by Electriccatfish2

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Thestapler123 (talk · contribs · count · api · block log)

Fineuser (talk · contribs · count · api · block log)

These 2 users are cursing at each other and are calling each other names. They also both have many recent vandalism warnings on their talk pages. They seem to be both vandalism-only, so I would suggest an indefinite block for each disruptive account. Thank you, Electriccatfish2 (talk) 01:07, 27 June 2012 (UTC).

Diffs, or a link to the dispute, please. - Jorgath (talk) 01:11, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Both of their talk pages: User talk:Fineuser and User talk:Thestapler123. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 01:13, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

It's really very entertaining, like two 5-year-olds screaming at each other with a parent (Electric) trying to calm them down.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:15, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I think an indefinite block is very harsh for this situation. And Adoil Descended (talk) 01:15, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I wondered what happened to your comment. I disagree (see below). It's much more than childish bickering.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:26, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

No it isn't. Both of them are cursing at each other and are serving no constructive purpose here. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 01:24, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Agreed and thanks! Electriccatfish2 (talk) 01:16, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Thestapler is a new account and has made only one article edit, which was pure vandalism. The rest has been fighting with Fineuser, but also leaving this message at ClueBot's page: "u r a robot. please go and die in a hole or make me an bloody admin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!". Fineuser has been around a smidgen longer, and I haven't reviewed his edits, but his Talk page is somewhat checkered.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:19, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Both appear to be vandalism-only. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 01:21, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree. Fineuser is just as bad as Thestapler. Nothing but uploading copyrighted pictures, creating bad articles, bad redirects, etc. Indefs are too good for both of them.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:23, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I agree that both should be blocked. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 01:33, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I'm still reluctant to indef a pair of relative newbies with no block logs. Propose a one month block for each of them, escalating (3 months, one year, indef). - Jorgath (talk) 01:36, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

You don't want to make Thestapler an admin ("Can you please make me a wikipedia admin, or at least tell me how and when I can become one? What do I have to do and how long do i have to wait?")? Maybe escalating blocks for Fineuser, although I think the writing is on the wall, but Thestapler is nothing but a vandalism-only account and we indef for that without escalating blocks.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:40, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I have no problem with that. One month each, escalates to indef with no further warning. I'll support that. - Jorgath (talk) 01:45, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

• "I'm still reluctant to indef a pair of relative newbies"--well, Jorgath, you're not an admin, so I'm not so worried about that. Also, a month for a bit of shouting is ridiculous, Electriccatfish. I blocked both for a week for being idiots; hopefully that's the end of it. Now, Bbb23, who is eminently sensible usually, suggests that Thestapler is nothing but a vandal--I'm inclined to agree, but I'm a nice guy/girl tonight (made some delicious ice cream) and we'll see about that indef block perhaps in a week and five minutes. Drmies (talk) 02:18, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

  I feel like you're not being entirely fair to me, Drmies. I know I'm not an admin. I don't particularly want to be an admin, actually. It seems like far too much completely thankless work (and BTW, thank you for your work, if you haven't been lately). I suppose my statement wasn't clear, but I thought it was obvious I meant "I'm reluctant to support an indef." As I am a member of the community in good standing, I believe I have the right to support or oppose a block or a block length, whether or not I carry the tools to impose it or modify it. That said, you're right that even one month was too long (I mostly was proposing it as an alternative to indef). - Jorgath (talk) 02:36, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Drmies is right. I would feel if I were in either of their positions that an indef. block is unfair for calling each other names. I mainly do anti-vandalism and new page patrolling work here, but I came across them while they put a help-me to on their talk pages. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 10:41, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't think this is just a question of two editors shouting at each other. That's just what stands out because it's so obvious. I think there is a mixture of serious vandalism and disruption. That said, the duration of blocks is at the discretion of the blocking admin, and being cautious (lenient, generous, whatever you want to call it) as Drmies has been can't be wrong - it may just mean some possible temporary damage and extra work later, but nothing that Drmies can't handle with some additional ice cream to fortify him. I might even have done the same thing were I an admin instead of a lowly advocate.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:28, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

POV-pushing and disruptive edits by User:Dzlinker

I would like to report several issues involving the user Dzlinker, concerning several POV-pushing and disruptive editing on many articles.

• Unjustified removal of an information sourced by 7 references, of which 3 can be read on line ; this editing is clearly a nationalistic POV-pushing to eliminate the fact that "an Algerian national hero" was a "friend of France" ;
• Disruptive/POV edits on the article Evil by removing each time Hitler's picture ; remember that this user had used in the past a userbox claiming he's Pro-Nazi and Waffen-SS, that means that these edits are POV-pushing ; I also note several POV edits on the article Sephardi Jews and Pied-Noir  ;
• Disruptive editing on the article Berber people, while getting no consensus on the Talk Page ;

Since Dzlinker doesn't seem to have the intention to contribute to Misplaced Pages otherwise than by imposing his POV, I'm asking for a 1RR for this user and, since he clearly claims antisemitic opinions, to forbid him to edit any Jewish-related article.

Regards,
Omar-Toons (talk) 01:21, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

You must send an ANI notice to any user who is the subject of a discussion here. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 01:22, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Message sent. Electriccatfish2 (talk) 01:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Jew-related topic ban, I can see and support. But 1RR restriction? Has Dzlinker been edit-warring? You've claimed POV-pushing and other forms of disruption, but I don't see a specific claim of edit-warring which would justify 1RR. I could quite easily be missing something, though. - Jorgath (talk) 01:48, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

This user is obviously trying to impose a nationalistic personal idea by POV pushs on Abdelkader giving non verifiable references and fake quotations, i asked in the talk page to have one verifiable ressource (it wouldn't be difficult if the sayings were really true facts) but he kept on his non cooperative reverts adding more and more faked ressources (i really read every reference, searching for the words friend and ami but there are no such words), i gave him 2 days without reverting his edits hoping to have a conversation with him and nothing, what can i do with a gay like this?! He only answer to my reversions by reversions, and to my questions by mutism! (lack of arguments i guess). And his comment here ..eliminate the fact that "an Algerian national hero" was a "friend of France" divulges his real intentions and the PoV he is trying to impose with fake references.

The case of the Barbary leopards is just another episode of his unjustified revert attacks and PoV-pushings, i abandoned this case but the same thing happened i added the commons infobox picture description' as a caption of it, he just refused this caption and continued to revert it, i tried to reach a consensus by editing the caption from last barbary leopard to one of the last barbary leopard and he didn't like it as well.

Fossatum Africae is an other exemple of his disruptive nationalistic PoV based edits. This history shows his faked ressources to make the historic wall arrive from Tunisia to Marocco!!

In addition, on this user contributions page i just visited, i noticed two things:

• They are basically reverts and ramps of others contributions (notice the impressive number of reversions).
• No edits on discussion pages have been made!! knowing the important number of reverts (and then of edit-conflicts he is having on the wiki) he never discuss those conflicts! he have been warned more than once about this but he stilled the same (http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:Omar-Toons#Warning)

He also hides behind IP and proxy edits. I don't have much time to fetch them now, but there is many many of them.

For the Berber people article this user and some other user are trying to slow down the evidente ethnicities (berber) of some well known people (proofs were given on talk page but since he never read talk pages i guess he is not acknowledged) For the jews article, my claim was supported by other contributors and we renamed the cities with their antiques names.

I request a cool off block on this user so he may be more cooperative in the future.

- Dzlinker (talk) 15:55, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

This revert shows the randomness of his undos.

- Dzlinker (talk) 16:22, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Edit warring over spam links by User:Buttress

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Buttress had modified some external links in the articles for Avalon, New Jersey and Stone Harbor, New Jersey that were removed by User:‎Xanzzibar as advertising twice today, which Buttress reverted. I made a cursory look at the links and removed them myself and was reverted by Buttress. In conversations on my talk page, Buttress made the claim that the links, which are on the website of an area realty company, were in fact meaningful guides to these two municipalities. Thinking that I may have misread the links in question, I took another look and determined that the pages linked were rather blatant infomercials for the realtor, including clear commercial solicitations and advertising for the realtor mixed in with some generic historical content about the communities. I explained this all at User_talk:Buttress, providing descriptions of the issues at hand when I thought that there might be more of a gray area, including links to WP:EL and WP:3RR, and providing a rather clear set of examples of the spam content in the pages he has linked to. Buttress has made another set of reverts, insisting that he will fight this out and claiming that there is a vendetta against him and his links. Further reverts on my part would only escalate this edit warring by Buttress, and an independent look at this situation (with a look at the article's edit histories and the discussion at the user talk page) by an uninvolved admin may help sort this out. Alansohn (talk) 03:52, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Note that the phone number offered by the user is the number from the business' 'community guide'. Dru of Id (talk) 04:47, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Gave them a final warning for spamming, hopefully that gets the point across. If not, the indef will. Seraphimblade 06:22, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Which he responded to with this rant. (and he is suppose to be a professional middle class real estate agent?) --Ron Ritzman (talk) 13:28, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

• joebutlerjr.com: Linksearch en - meta - de - fr - simple - wikt:en - wikt:fr • MER-C Cross-wiki • Reports: Links on en - COIBot - COIBot-Local • Discussions: tracked - advanced • COIBot-Local - COIBot-XWiki - Misplaced Pages: en - fr - de • Google: search • meta • Domain: domaintools • AboutUs.org • Live link: http://www.joebutlerjr.com

Tracking. MER-C 13:28, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

User indeffed for spamming (&c.), articles cleaned. --Dirk Beetstra 13:33, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Two unblockrequests

See Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard#Block review: Sceptre and AndyTheGrump. Uncle G (talk) 08:51, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Censorship of union rorting scandal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

In April 2012 the Australian Council of Trade Unions voted 1797-103 to suspend the membership of the Health Services Union for corruption, as reported by the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. I'd call a 95% vote overwhelming. That's the exact language the ABC used. Earlier today Qwyrxian labelled this use of "overwhelming" as NPOV when removing two days worth of reliably sourced edits describing the reasons for the union's expulsion and the later federal court action dismissing the officers and appointing a judge as administrator. Qwryrxian also asked for time to gain some historical perspective - on an event dating from 2002 - before including it in Misplaced Pages. Without identifying any edit as individually problematic, and dismissing statements by the Prime Minister as "random comments by politicians", Qwryxian effectively censored an article about a major scandal. It's the Profumo Affair without Christine Keeler. It's the Lewinsky scandal without the blue dress. Content is not the issue here. I request some admin attention to this action by Qwyrxian. Perhaps, as a Japanese resident, he is unaware of the Australian notability of this affair. At the very least, I would like some guidance as to what prompted him to label factual edits supported by reliable sources as "Absoultely absurd". Looking at each diff with a fresh eye, I cannot see anything remarkably wrong with any one of them. It's a political scandal - of course there are going to be scandalous elements.--Pete (talk) 07:21, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Nothing actionable, we have content noticeboards for this. Fifelfoo (talk) 07:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed. It is Qwyrxian's conduct I would like reviewed. He is, after all, an admin. --Pete (talk) 07:27, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

That's my review: this is a content dispute. Take it to WP:NPOV/N. Fifelfoo (talk) 07:38, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Irrelevant. He wasn't acting as an admin in this case. This is a content dispute. Editors (admins or otherwise) impugn the credibility of other editors' sources all the time. Sometimes they are right and sometimes they are wrong. Regardless, there's no reason to bring the matter here. Go seek a third opinion or employ some other dispute resolution procedure. —Psychonaut (talk) 07:39, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Exactly, unless Qwyrxian used their admin tools in a content dispute, this should be closed and moved to WP:NPOVN or

As happens all of the time, Skyring is misrepresenting my comments, just like he regularly misrepresents the comments of others. I should not have mentioned the "overwhlming" issue, as it is a trivial point, not the main thrust of my concern. The revert was due to the fact that Skyring is attempting to include basically any verifiable detail he can...or, perhaps I should say, every verifiable detail consistent with his POV. I do not believe this is due to ignorance of our policies, but rather, because of his knowledge of them, in that he is doing everything he can to edit within the boundaries of them while simultaneously ignoring their real substance (i.e., WP:CPUSH). I'm willing to take the content issue elsewhere, though if I had to hazard a guess, such a venue won't produce a desirable (that is, neutral and due) version until such time as an RfC/U or something of the like is run. Sadly, I don't have the time. And, yes, as others have pointed out, I have never used my admin tools with respect to that article, nor with respect to Skyring, nor would I even consider doing so. However, I accept that as an admin my "normal" editing is under greater scrutiny than that of other editors and should be held to a higher standard, so if anyone thinks my normal behavior is off, please feel free to tell me. As of right now, I believe have edited the article 3 times, only once of substance (the revert Skyring talks about), which should, I presume, lead to the discussion portion of BRD, which I am willing to undergo. But, maybe Skyring objects to my tone or my response to him on my or his talk page; others are welcome to tell me where I'm wrong. Qwyrxian (talk) 08:52, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Having read through all the diffs that Qwyrxian reverted, I'd say Qwyrxian was correct to revert them all. Before the revert, there was way more information about the people involved, and their side activities, their positions, how they got there, etc, than there was on the investigation itself. If no one objects, I'm closing this as not actionable here and to be directed either to talk pages or other noticeboards. Blackmane (talk) 09:02, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

What does "rorting" mean? I don't speak Aussie. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 20:15, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Aha! See Rort. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 20:21, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Legal threat (minor?)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

143.236.34.56 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)
Extraction: "I'll sue." diff Jim1138 (talk) 09:03, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Blocked by JamesBWatson just before or just after my posting here. Jim1138 (talk) 09:07, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Qizilbash

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am asking for a semi-protection of the article Qizilbash which is being falsified by an IP (80.212.244.53 (talk · contribs)). The IP is falsifying the attached source and does not react to my comment on the talkpage. --Lysozym (talk) 15:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

You might want to post at WP:RFPP. - The Bushranger _{One ping only} 15:34, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, but NO, don't go there either: this will not be protected in its current state (yet). You have raised the matter on the talk page, but you never let the IP editor know--nor did you inform them of this discussion, which I'm about to close. I note also that you are not clear in your edit summaries: in this unexplained edit you actually revert three of their edits but you don't say so. If you want a response from them, you will have to communicate with them in the first place. And now I'm closing this: there is no admin intervention required here. Drmies (talk) 17:31, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Request for comment on unblocking policy

A request has been opened at Misplaced Pages talk:Blocking policy#Proposal: third party request for unblock

Should the proposed change, "A third party may request the review of a block at the Administrators' noticeboard," or some variation of that change, be added to the unblocking policy. Penyulap ☏ 22:40, 27 Jun 2012 (UTC)

Please keep an eye out on Bradford Bulls

Bradford Bulls are an English Rugby League team. They (or to be more accurate their holding company) entered administration yesterday. There's already been an instance by an IP of a "defunct" added to the article's infobox, and an IP changing tenses ("are a team" to "were a team", etc.) Both sets of edits looked like good-faith jumping the gun. Fact is, they've entered administration (which is correctly cited in the article) but not yet liquidation, so aren't (yet) defunct. Could admins interested in Rugby League (or insolvency law) in the UK add Bradford Bulls to their watchlists and revert overly-eager reports of the club's demise? If things get messy some page protection may become necessary, but hopefully not. Thanks, Tonywalton  00:10, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

User AB9715

AB9715 (talk · contribs) is almost certainly another sock of Bowei Huang 2 (talk · contribs). There's already an SPI underway. What's needed, once his latest incarnation is blocked, is to undo the mess he's created with article moves. Some of those articles are favorite targets, and maybe should be move-protected. ←Baseball Bugs carrots→ 03:39, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Animemidatlantic and article Anime Mid-Atlantic

The following relates to User:Animemidatlantic and article Anime Mid-Atlantic about the user's company.

The user appears to have been editing the article as a Single Purpose Account for 24 edits over 5 years. The user was directed to WP:COI five years ago, 20:23, 7 February 2007 (UTC). Editing continued without much incident.

21:03, 21 June 2012‎ (UTC) The user changed "*Attendance Numbers basedon turnstile not unique registration" to "*Attendance Numbers basedactual attendance* If anyone changes the numbers again without authorization. Legal Action will ensue. We know who you are*" and was reverted and warned by Tiptoety with "uw-talkinarticle", including in the Edit Summary of the reversion "Please address on the talk page".

03:30, 22 June 2012 (UTC) The user removed "3,000
(est)" (39 bytes) and the next minute added five attendance numbers, with no explanation.

03:31, 22 June 2012 (UTC) I reverted and notified with "uw-coi-username".

03:38, 22 June 2012 (UTC) I warned with "Uw-delete4".

03:54,22 June 2012 (UTC) The user removed the same 39 bytes of text, again with no explanation. Tiptoety reverted and included in Edit Summary "Please stop removing sourced content".

04:12, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Tiptoety blocked the user for 24 hours for disruptive editing at Anime Mid-Atlantic, and changed a setting a minute later.

15:47, 22 June 2012 (UTC) 76.104.61.168 (evidently the user logged out) removed the same 39 bytes of text, again with no explanation. I believe this to be the same user logged out, as it is also an SPA only interested in that article. Tiptoety reverted.

16:18, 22 June 2012 (UTC) Tiptoety blocked 76.104.61.168 for 24 hours for block evasion. Tiptoety appears to agree with me that it is the same user logged out.

19:45, 23 Jun 2012 (UTC) The user (undoubtedly the person responsible for http://www.animemidatlantic.com/ given the "About / Contact Us" link) used Special:EmailUser to email me the following message (in which I have only obscured my email address and eliminated the end matter boilerplate):

I was advised to post the preceding here by an Administrator.   — Jeff G. ツ (talk) 03:56, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Given that you aren't Misplaced Pages's legal counsel, I'm not sure what (person's name redacted by User:Jorgath) hopes to gain informing you that he will file a lawsuit. Having read the site policies though, wouldn't this be a violation of Misplaced Pages:No legal threats? However, I've also read Misplaced Pages:Don't overlook legal threats, so perhaps the content is wrong? If so, can we just correct this? - Letsbefiends (talk) 04:12, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

I've had a quick look at the article, and actually this seems to be a storm in a teacup. Firstly, making legal threats is very foolish and won't get the editor very far. However, there are actually two sets of attendance figures, so while the figures we have listed are accurate, they aren't the full story. May I suggest that folks take it to the talk page - I've started a discussion. I'm sure that a compromise can be made - it seems a little silly to be battling over this matter! - Letsbefiends (talk) 04:20, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

While an Admin advised you to post it here, you probably should have redacted the real-life name of the person who sent it to you as well, per WP:OUTING. Not your fault; you were advised to do this by an admin. Could someone oversight that? I've redacted the name for now, but that won't help in the edit summary. As for them, they should be reported at WP:COI and also possibly banned for the legal threat. That said, if Letsbefiends (or anyone) can figure out the proper answer to the problem raised, good. - Jorgath (talk) 04:46, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

The editor who made the original legal threat should be directed to Misplaced Pages:Contact_us/Article_problem/Factual_error_(from_subject), and almost certainly should be blocked from editing until the matter is resolved. If it were me, I would also send the email (with all headers) to info-en-q@wikimedia.org, including a link this ANI. The talk page discussion will handle things from a content end. --Tgeairn (talk) 05:08, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Note: - User:Ironholds blocked the editor who made the orginal legal threat. I have added a note on the editor's talk page explaining the block. --Tgeairn (talk) 05:55, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Slightly off-topic, but are there any sources other than SPS and local passing news for this article? Also, although we should not ignore a threat, does it make sense that a reputable organisation is using a free @yahoo-ish email? Anyway, back to the matter at hand... --Tgeairn (talk) 04:48, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes, it makes sense re: the e-mail. As someone who's been to - (and once helped to organize) - sci-fi/fantasy, gaming, and anime conventions, I can assure you that only the larger ones (and 3,000ish per con is sort of medium) will bother with getting their own e-mail server. Most will get a domain name for their website, but will just link a perfectly normal business yahoo or gmail account from the website. - Jorgath (talk) 05:00, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't have much experience in the convention field. --Tgeairn (talk) 05:02, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Mayumashu

User:Mayumashu has been going around removing the ", Nova Scotia" from the titles of Nova Scotia community articles. While WP:CANSTYLE does allow this, this mass move of articles, without any explanation, makes me doubt this user is going through the care and attention a move needs. I have reverted the obvious violations, but I wonder if all moves this user has made in the past couple of weeks should be reverted. 117Avenue (talk) 05:06, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

User:71.72.151.150

I'm sure he's just mouthing off, but I suspect we don't want editors like 71.72.151.150 (talk · contribs) going around making threats of violence. Dori ☾Talk ⁘ Contribs☽ 06:33, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

1. Cite error: The named reference hr2012 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

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